Nah, it can't get much worse than this. I believe just knowing he's gone without replacing him would give the players a boost.
Erik ten Hag | 2024/25 | Sacked
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@VP89 is the most condescending, passive aggressive poster I've seen on here. Really needs to get off their high horse already. Really no point arguing with them.
I’ll take the risk of someone new in a heartbeat over the shit that Ten Hag serves up. This notion that we shouldn’t change an awful manager because their replacement might be worse is just nonsense. Using that logic you’d never ever replace a failing manager.
Ten Hag isn’t good enough so get rid. If his replacement is even worse (hard to imagine right now), then get rid of them too.
Jesus man. Give it up ffs! The only difference
Exactly! He's got to be wumming at this point. Although I've thought it many months before.
Carlo has said he's going to retire after leaving Real.
We might be able to change his mind if we throw a lot of money at him, but his heart might not really be in it.
And didn't spend 600m +
In ETH's first season he basically just continued playing Ole's style of football while having better players (or better defence and midfield anyway, Ole did have the better attack). As such he SHOULD have been beating Ole's point tally.
Since changing to how he wants to play it's been an unmitigated disaster.
Looking at points per game over the course of their times here there's nothing in it. ETH is fractionally ahead and will stay ahead if he wins or draws against Villa, but if he loses he'll then drop below Ole. ETH has got two minor (not major) cup trophies but he had an easier run of fixtures to win them than what Ole generally did. We also never looked so consistently bad over such a long period of time under Ole, although that is likely only because we fired him when we did as we probably would have continued being terrible if we hadn't.
Ultimately neither were good enough and arguments can easily be made for either to have been better. ETH got the cups, Ole played better and more enjoyable football while doing better in Europe.
It feels crap atm and he’ll probably be pushed out as the dressing room is clearly not listening anymore.
But, there’s a lot of revisionism going on in this thread with people b1tching and crying about it’s been bad since March 2023 and bad in Europe etc.
Fact is fans were largely in a positive mood going into this season only a few weeks ago, and that’s because we won a trophy against Europe’s best side and it was largely understood Ten Hag was dealing with a monumental injury crisis. As for Europe, no one could have predicted just how badly Onana would sh1t the bed - it was like watching this Costa fellow in goal for 6 straight games.
But, there’s a lot of revisionism going on in this thread with people b1tching and crying about it’s been bad since March 2023 and bad in Europe etc.
Fact is fans were largely in a positive mood going into this season only a few weeks ago, and that’s because we won a trophy against Europe’s best side and it was largely understood Ten Hag was dealing with a monumental injury crisis. As for Europe, no one could have predicted just how badly Onana would sh1t the bed - it was like watching this Costa fellow in goal for 6 straight games.
It's not really revisionism when form and results have been poor since March 2023. There are mitigating factors as to why but it's true nonetheless.
O.92 of our XG come from garnachos goal which come directly from a complete defensive cock up which left him an open goal. City created that chance for us. Take that off and we created 0.67 xg.
We did defend well but city also had a big off day in attack aswell, despite that they 11 shots from within our penalty area. It just wasn't there day. But without the massive leg up of the opening goal I doubt we win that game.
We scored the first goal after defender putting Garnacho clear on goal, one in a season mistake.
Haaland hit the bar.
We were a bit lucky, it doesn't contradict the fact we had a good game.
We were more lucky to get to that final.
What's nonsense is advocating changing regardless of who you are replacing him with. The idea that literally anybody could do better is naive at best.
Wanting to keep a manager is not the same as waiting to see who will replace him before you sack him, is not the same thing.
Replacing a failing manager with someone potentially worse is not what you'd call a clever strategy.
If there was a standout candidate willing to come in the summer he'd already be gone.
As shit as this is, of course it can be worse. Regardless of what you think the players think. The players he signed in the summer may not get much of a boost.
If it was as simple as some in here think, it'd be fixed already.
It's a tricky job. We've basically had two successful managers in the history of the club (2 managers won 18 of our league titles), to think the third one could be just anybody is wild.
I don't understand why people can't let me have my opinion about two failed managers. I said who I'd prefer and we have a ten hag out brigade offended by it.Jesus man. Give it up ffs! The only difference
Heh, maybe you should see all the shit that a subset of posters say to me. There's no high horse from me, I literally said it's just an opinion and to leave me be with it.
Because it's not contraversial. Lots of people that think the same just let it be and don't quote me. Then there's a subset, the usuals who have distsain for the current manager who are wound up. It's not my fault they can't be adult about it and want to post with "wow", "you're weird" and "what a wum".
Er not in his debut year where he did better than Ole did in 2-3 season attempts, but sure let's completely miss the point.
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A totally fair reply. If only certain posters could be more measured than to try and bite for a drawn out argument.
I knew you were Erik!!
Overly sensitive? Mate I've been called names like weird, wum, troll and accused by yourself of supporting other clubs.
And all that for saying he's a failure but less of a failure than a coach who won us nothing, or that I'd sack him just before internationals instead of immediately after spurs.
Take a look in the mirror before suggesting anyone is sensitive.
He’s such a gaslighter.
Cup competions controlled by the finest of margins beyond a managers control.
De Gea saves a penalty in Europa Final. Coventry are an inch further back and onside.
Creates a totally different picture.
We know ETH is already pinning the season on a cup win from his comments. Never a good idea, don't fall for it.
Imagine digging yourself a hole so big that you still won't admit publically that the dross we watch served up every week is far worse than under Ole.
If Ole was showed more tangible improvements in say, our points won per game then I'd be more understanding of it. Plus because Ten Hag did have a peak style of play at other clubs which showed a level comparable with the best, there was always some hope in me that he could work it out.
Because Ole was just bad at Cardiff and bad here by way of relevant examples, when he'd talk about tactics not being that important and then implode in a similar manner, I'd be a lot more down about it.
I get we are terrible now and have been for a while, but we also aren't getting thumped by 4 from relegation sides. For me that's the lowest it got and I can't get over that.
It's not so much Ole vs ETH for me.
It's using cup wins to defend a guy. When you know it could easily have gone the other way via margins the manager didn't have a say in.
Luck vs no luck.
I would say not getting thumped 4 nil is a very random defence of ETH. Given how many times we have been thumped under him and that insane 3 goals conceded stat.
For me its not just cup wins. For me it was the outlook on how the game should be played, the poor pedigree in his CV that concerned me of any hope in the future, the poor injury management and the isolated lows of being thumped against bottom of the table sides not being quite as bad as say 3-0 vs Spurs.
The cup wins do at least give me some silver lining, and are important wins for the history books that enter our trophy cabinet.
It was one point better wasn't it?
But we don't need someone to replicate the success of Busby and Ferguson to improve on Ten Hag. In fact we don't need another Busby or Ferguson at all.
Yes, we need a prolonged caretaker who can manage for two seasons whilst achieving the minimum requirements - top 4 plus deep cup runs whilst Ashworth and Co sort out the squad, the sports science and fitness regimes. There are big contracts that might need moving on, depending on whether the new guy fails to manage them and we need to upgrade the technical level of our midfield, get a striker and LB in.
This, see above. We need someone that can get us to be a competitive outfit again and this will, in turn give Ashworth the time and space to reconstruct the squad and build the supportive amenities like sports science, fitness and analytics.
I think the point being made was we've consistently hired failures post Sir Alex so there's a fair chance we can be in a similar position in 18 months where we are in the market again. No one is against changing the manager but just having careful consideration on the successor rather than immediately sacking now is probably a fair shout.
Ok, thanks for explaining, appreciated.
To be honest I’m more interested in the difference between what is said and what folks perceive. And how that is then relayed and becomes an alternative ’reality’ when someone picks it up as gospel and runs with it.
Whether deliberate or not, we’re all liable to put a different meaning on what people say at some time or other. Language can be a lot more subjective than say, a picture, especially when dealing with concepts.
The part of your post I quoted, and your subsequent explanation is a great example. It wasn’t necessary to watch the interview, it pops off the page as implausible.
Anyway, I’m rambling, and have the ironing to do!
Have a good weekend
Apparently he didn’t have the players to play that way even though be bought half of his Ajax team. He just keeps making excuse. It’s a joke. He even said after the Porto game we’ll look better and have clear style and patterns of play once we get a proper LB back in the team. How can 1 position affect everything. He’s done.
That's just paying the price for not sacking him in the summer when they had time and options, now it's a case of who's available and who will improve us for the rest of the season and beyond. Even if we do hire a new manager next week, its not a travesty if we decide to sack him in the summer if someone better comes available. We need to stop with this strange affection for managers at the expense of whats best for the team and club overall.
Yes which has been exacerbated by expecting these failing managers to be head coach, general manager and director of football all rolled into one. You'd hope with the hirings Ineos have made that thats no longer the case we simply need a first team coach. And while it's not easy to easy a top class one at any time let alone mid season, we're so bad right now that if the club decide to sack Ten Hag any decent coach with some top level experience has a very good chance of improving perfromances and results. At least in the short term which is fine as they'll probably be an interim coach anyway.
Fixed that for you.
I actually thought it was more, but yes that's correct.
22/23: Finishing 3rd with 75 points; 58 scored and 43 conceded (+15)
20/21: Finished 2nd with 74 points; 73 scored and 44 conceded (+29)
I believe one of the biggest problems for the club and probably for quite a lot of fans, in the last ten years, is that they got fixated on a manager who was going to give them success for another 20 years.
Fergie, as great as he was, also put the club and supporters, between a rock and hard place. His success was so incredible and regular, that it's not surprising that any manager or fan thereafter, was caught in a loop of believing they should keep the momentum going for another decade.
The same thing happened with Liverpool, after their dominance in the 70s and 80s, virtually everyone who was there watching that, still believed they'd win titles in the 90s and 2000's. But it actually took decades for them to win and bounce back under Klopp.
Football has moved on, more clubs have more money and can compete. The 'top four' has now become the 'top six', it won't be long before that becomes 'top eight'. Gone are the days where a club dominates for 20 years now (City's cheating aside).
For me, Uniteds biggest failing is still expecting a manager to come in and produce a team that's going to 'do a Fergie'.
I think the club and fans reality needs to reset and they just need to be happy with a manager that might give you 5 or 6 potential good years, not 20.
I'm not defending ETH here by any stretch, personally I don't think he's up to even 5 years of title hunting.
Fergie, as great as he was, also put the club and supporters, between a rock and hard place. His success was so incredible and regular, that it's not surprising that any manager or fan thereafter, was caught in a loop of believing they should keep the momentum going for another decade.
The same thing happened with Liverpool, after their dominance in the 70s and 80s, virtually everyone who was there watching that, still believed they'd win titles in the 90s and 2000's. But it actually took decades for them to win and bounce back under Klopp.
Football has moved on, more clubs have more money and can compete. The 'top four' has now become the 'top six', it won't be long before that becomes 'top eight'. Gone are the days where a club dominates for 20 years now (City's cheating aside).
For me, Uniteds biggest failing is still expecting a manager to come in and produce a team that's going to 'do a Fergie'.
I think the club and fans reality needs to reset and they just need to be happy with a manager that might give you 5 or 6 potential good years, not 20.
I'm not defending ETH here by any stretch, personally I don't think he's up to even 5 years of title hunting.
The problem with this is that you and many others wanted him to get the beginning of this season to see how it goes. Do you now recognise why this was an issue? You can't have it both ways. Because you got what you wanted, we are now in a worse position, which was entirely predictable.
This is a great take.
To add something, especially when you have the best players or close to is, simplify things. Don't make it too complicated.
The skill level will come out and players will add their own creativity especially once they gel together.
I still do not like when Dalot slots in, I get Rene says it could be brilliant, but too many times it stymie's a quick transitional attack on that side and he is not at the level to get back quick enough once the ball is lost.
Thanks for sharing this.
Rene just mentioned he would return if RVN was put in charge, interesting.
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