The problem with this is that you and many others wanted him to get the beginning of this season to see how it goes. Do you now recognise why this was an issue? You can't have it both ways. Because you got what you wanted, we are now in a worse position, which was entirely predictable.
Erik ten Hag | 2024/25 | Sacked
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The problem with this is that you and many others wanted him to get the beginning of this season to see how it goes. Do you now recognise why this was an issue? You can't have it both ways. Because you got what you wanted, we are now in a worse position, which was entirely predictable.
This is a great take.
To add something, especially when you have the best players or close to is, simplify things. Don't make it too complicated.
The skill level will come out and players will add their own creativity especially once they gel together.
I still do not like when Dalot slots in, I get Rene says it could be brilliant, but too many times it stymie's a quick transitional attack on that side and he is not at the level to get back quick enough once the ball is lost.
Thanks for sharing this.
Rene just mentioned he would return if RVN was put in charge, interesting.
That's actually not it. I said it from day one, the way ETH setup Ajax isn't his way, it's the Ajax way. He was and still is a manager that favors a more direct approach. Also people assumed that he was hired for us to play like Ajax but those are just assumptions and it was always an ambitious assumption when you consider the fact that Ajax are a very peculiar Football club, they built an identity decades ago and all managers regardless of their past follow that identity.
And the reason I was very positive about ETH was because he perfectly adapted to Ajax and followed the club's and Overmars' plans. The small issue is that I overlooked the fact that those plans are imposed and that people tend to act differently when they are given more freedom, most people only function properly under strigent structures which by the way is one of the things that makes someone like SAF exceptional, he had an incredible amount of self discipline and self reflection, most managers don't they are shortsighted and full of themselves.
I'm not sure what you're trying to say here in practical terms.
I think potentially when Sir Alex first retired a lot of us were slightly uninspired by Moyes. But we hoped that could be something of a continuation due to his age and him seeming a very stable choice.
By the time he was gone we were pretty happy to hire Van Gaal then Mourinho who no one expected to stay for 10 years (for different reasons).
Then by the time Mourinho went we lost hope in signing the biggest name and throwing money at it hoping we would win the league short term. That's when we moved towards thinking a longer term rebuild was necessary, not because we imagined it would result in a Sir Alex like reign but because we thought it was the only way to get back to where we want to be.
I'm pretty sure almost no Utd fan would refuse a sustained 5 or 6 years of success and competing like you describe. I don't think most of us are pining for 25 years of domination right now, just being a good side that can compete with the best.
Yeah, so let's just ignore that our first goal which changed everything came from a hilarious mistake that happens once in 50 games.
It was a lucky win in sense that playing like that we win it 3 out of 10 times at most. We did what we had to do but let's not kid ourselves. We had, what, 25% possesion? FA cup win on the whole was extremely lucky. From the luck of the draw to that Coventry game.
Guy is so arrogant you'd think he was a prime Mourinho. He literally has all the worst traits of all our failed managers combined together. Incompetence of Moyes, stubborness of LVG and arrogance of Mourinho, with nothing but "his" cups to back it up with. Willing to throw everybody, including the club under the bus just to make himself look better. And somehow people still find him likeable.
Plenty of bigger clubs needed a change and made one without too much fuss. But with us it has to be a "standout candidate" that checks all the boxes for future SAF 2.0.
Over the last 19 league games, half a season, we have 23 points.
You extrapolate that over a full season and you're looking at 46 points , that is a flirting with relegation level of points. The idea we should be careful of sacking ETH because "things could get worse" is absolutely ludicrous.
The new manager would have to take us down to get any worse than it's been the last 18 months, especially the last 6 months.
You extrapolate that over a full season and you're looking at 46 points , that is a flirting with relegation level of points. The idea we should be careful of sacking ETH because "things could get worse" is absolutely ludicrous.
The new manager would have to take us down to get any worse than it's been the last 18 months, especially the last 6 months.
Can't believe there's been over 15k posts in here and the best one is still someone getting offended by someone calling ste howson fattie. Proper tickled me that.
Anyway what's Alan curbishley or Glenn roeder up to? Would take one of them 2 right now
Anyway what's Alan curbishley or Glenn roeder up to? Would take one of them 2 right now
As an EtH apologist, this post has sent me into fairly deep introspection.
I really do believe he’s a man of high standards. That makes me believe he won’t have any qualms about his inevitable sacking. Our league performances and results are too poor.
This is mental. It’s literal relegation form. These are results that would get you sacked from the likes of Crystal Palace
I find it strange that he doesn’t (from the outside) seem to have lost the dressing room yet. I’d like to know what they’re encouraged by, if anything
Well no, but we don't want another Ralf style disaster with zero authority.
No, you're missing the point. Without proper thought and a good candidate it could be an utter disaster. The fact were really only had two successful managers shows it's not an easy role to fill.
This club is a monster, it flattens players and managers. It's not a matter of just get anybody in.
So its a previously scheduled meeting
And he doesn't know first team is on the agenda
What a pointless tweet!!!
I believe his gone, but that tweet and story is shit stirring
Ive always been on the side of backing ETH this season.
But now i'm starting to think he's a huge fraud and i fell for it.
Still cannot fathom the Rashford half time sub, the managers ego might be worse than i thought tbh.
Add me to the ETH apologist group.
I still hope he turns things around just so it validates my previous nonsense on the subject.
But now i'm starting to think he's a huge fraud and i fell for it.
Still cannot fathom the Rashford half time sub, the managers ego might be worse than i thought tbh.
Add me to the ETH apologist group.
I still hope he turns things around just so it validates my previous nonsense on the subject.
It was interesting to see those tweets the other day pointing out how often we concede multiple goals in quick time because that kind of matches up with something that's happened again in the past two games which is conceding in the first 5 minutes of the 2nd half.
Porto's 3rd goal was the 15th time we've conceded in that period under Ten Hag compared to 8 goals scored. For the first 5 minutes of the 1st half we have scored 5 and conceded 8. So from that it seems that starting the game isn't too bad but we often have an issue switching back on after the break.
Porto's 3rd goal was the 15th time we've conceded in that period under Ten Hag compared to 8 goals scored. For the first 5 minutes of the 1st half we have scored 5 and conceded 8. So from that it seems that starting the game isn't too bad but we often have an issue switching back on after the break.
It already is, that's the point. It was never this bad under previous post SAF managers. It seems many people don't realize just how bad the entirety of last season really was. 8th place was very flattering considering the performances and underlying metrics. Top 4 used to be a must but under Ten Hag it is actually expected that we won't make it.
Should be above the poll in the 'Life After EtH' thread.
What frigtens me most is Ineos.
Will they too be crushed trying to attach 'modernity' into United's curious beast?
We shall see.
The bolded part is hyperbole. It was as bad during the dying embers of Solskjaer and Jose, and under Moyes. I can't remember LvG's terror because I don't do self-harm.
Last season could, and probably should, be attributed to injuries. This is forgotten about faster than the fact we won a trophy last season, beating Klopp and Pep en route.
This has to be the most mystifying thing I've ever seen - How can a team just switch off in this way?
Are there any rumours of some massive fight / falling out that happened after the league cup final?
Something clearly changed / went very badly wrong after that game!
Yeah, it's awful. Let's just be careful we don't make it worse.
And everyone can see how awful the team is and has been. What none of us know is what's expected of the manager. Maybe they've given him a free pass to bed in the coaching players. While we are pretty much addicted to the club and consume all we can, we still know very little of what goes on.
Agreed. Personality, strength of character and ability are all important, but more important than any of that is the ability to consistently finish top 4 so we can finally build a proper team. We need 3 or 4 years of consistency, and fast.
Ten Hag changed his tactics to whatever we are trying to play now. First season was rather pragmatic.
There were moments under previous managers. There was never an entire season as bad as last season (likely due to firing the manager before it got that bad). 8th was EXTREMELY kind to us, by all metrics (including the eye test) we deserved to finish down around 14th. Individual player quality combined with opposition poor finishing got us enough undeserved points in the first half of the season that we never dropped that far in the table, but our performance level deserved it.
Injuries were certainly a contributing factor, but they were not the primary reason. As seen by the fact that we continued being absolutely terrible even when we didn't have many injuries, then started playing better at the end of the season despite it being arguably the most injury-hit period of all due to ETH finally changing his tactics for the final few matches, and now we're playing terribly again despite not having many injuries.
Utd were top or there about in Jan. I remember in mid Jan we were away to Palace and should have won that (conceded a last min goal and had a blatant Mctomminy penalty turned down). Casemerio was playing out if this world and got booked, which meant he would miss the match at the Emirates. Up to the 89th min of that game, Utd were heading into what was portrayed as a title decider away to Arsenal.
Also around that time we beat Barcelona. Those games were amazing and we played some of the best football since the Fergie days.
All this was less than 18 months ago. Then after we won the league cup, things were looking great. I seriously think that 7-0 loss at Anfield a few days later had a psychological affect on ETH and the team and we have never recovered.
I'm going to be kind and assume you are not being an insensitive prick on purpose with this.
Hopefully tomorrow is the last day of Ten Haram ball. The nightmare will end soon (yet again).
Oh wow had no idea what you were on about so googled it, yeah my apologies that's terrible. It was just 2 managers that came into my head that were kicking about 20 or so years ago
Not sure we can really expect to go to Villa Park and win, given even Bayern just lost there, but needs to be a better overall performance than the midweek one, which was a much better result than display. A reasonably even 1-1 would be something for him to build on.
He's fairly unlikely to be in the running...
I am stealing this.
I have no doubt in my mind anymore that he won't survive Sundays results.
We actually were at 44 expected points last season. So what is happening is just results gradually catching up with performances over the longer term.
Our underlying metrics in the league have never been as bad under LvG/Jose/Ole as under EtH in the last and current season, not even close. Yet many people seem to be surprised that we did not improve significantly after the summer transfer window and with no injury crisis.
It is just that EtH is a bad manager at this level, full stop. He might have been good in the Netherlands and under Ajax good structure with a strong squad, little say over transfers and speaking native language. Once he started to compete in a stronger league with a much higher quality of managers with stronger squads he came short and his tactical/language/charisma problems came to the fore.
He is not the first and won’t be the last to fail at higher level. And our woes are not only due to him. But the lengths at which people go to find excuses for him amazes me.
Last point: it is hindsight of course (and I myself was quite excited about his appointment), but it is telling that we hired him 3 years after his famous CL run with Ajax. Over this time period there were a lot of instances of big clubs looking for managers, and I am sure most of them assessed EtH as a part of the search. Yet it was only Murtough and Fletcher who he impressed enough to hire him. Even Spurs turned him down. So I guess that other big clubs (most of whom better run than us) in top leagues correctly assessed that he would likely struggle to replicate his success elsewhere…
It's not that misrifying. We had a settled less porous back 5 with certain players on form or simply fit for extended periods.
Our back 5 was De Gea, Shaw, Licha, Varane and AWB/Dalot alternating. Our midfield three of Casemiro, Fred and Bruno worked pretty well and up top Rashford was on form, so much so we could afford to play that lamp post Weghorst.
Turn off Rashy/Case form, sell Fred, perma-injure Shaw and Varane, Licha as well for most of last season... it very quickly explains much of it.
For the most part though, I reckon ETH was more pragmatic to begin with, working with what he had and playing to their strengths. We did however get a 6-3 hiding vs City and 7-0 vs Liverpool so he had to go one better, leave his mark, "not Ajax, fastest transition team" chat and it's been downhill since.
Correct. The club is like Liverpool was in the 90's - too much looking backwards and a lot of fans still take that view.
The idea that you keep a failing manager on because you can't guarantee that the next man in will be an unmitigated success is insane.
There are, at any time, numerous managers who could be the next elite managers, and one or two of them will be. A well run footballing structure (which we now have - "best in class" supposedly), should be able to identify them. It's no different from picking ETH from Ajax. Obviously there are no guarantees the man picked will succeed. If he doesn't, you move him on. The game has changed and managers will rarely stay on for a decade anymore. Stability comes from structure around the club - not the manager. Well run clubs can change a manager every few years and still succeed.
The game hasn't even changed, in all eras managers staying beyond 4 or 5 seasons is a rarity. People base that view on the exceptions, not the norm.
Edit: Also longevity is the product of success not the other way around, it's an other fallacy that people follow when it comes to United.
Yes, totally agree - the idea that if you just give it more time, it'll eventually come good is madness. Sir Alex didn't succeed because he was given time, he did so because he was very good at what he did.
ETH is miles out of his depth and it's been obvious for the last 12 months. Huge mistake by INEOS not getting rid in the summer when most people could see exactly how this was going to pan out.
No, it was never consistently this bad, never for such a long period of time. Not even close.
And no, last season should not be attributed to injuries. It can if you want to bury your head in the sand, otherwise no.
Ten Hag FC are such an odd bunch, and I’ll never understand why they are so behind such an inept manager. It’s like arguing with flat earth’ers.
The cup wins are probably 2 of the most fortunate trophies in United’s history. We should never have been anywhere near the FA cup final. Yes, celebrating both were amazing but the latter was definitely tinged with the inevitable keeping him on, which I was dead against along with many, many others.
His latest delusional statement about lack of a LB (we all acknowledge we are short here) shows how inept he is setting up a team. It’s clear that Dalot is not a LB but we still try the same stuff, week in, week out, and have the same consequences. If ETH really is such an amazing tactician as we are been told on a daily basis, how can he not address this? Is ETH too tactical and the players are too stupid to remember and implement them?
Given my priorities as a United fan have always been League, Europe then domestic cups, to see his goal of been a cup team, then I don’t see any metric in which I feel he should remain, even if we smash Villa tomorrow. He’s comfortably, and by a long way comfortably, the worst manager in 30/40 years and is so arrogant, he is disliked on a level I’ve never comprehended until recently.
He needs to feck off and take his utterly attriticous signings with him. Long will he be remembered as the manager who made us a mid table team having made the team weaker.
The cup wins are probably 2 of the most fortunate trophies in United’s history. We should never have been anywhere near the FA cup final. Yes, celebrating both were amazing but the latter was definitely tinged with the inevitable keeping him on, which I was dead against along with many, many others.
His latest delusional statement about lack of a LB (we all acknowledge we are short here) shows how inept he is setting up a team. It’s clear that Dalot is not a LB but we still try the same stuff, week in, week out, and have the same consequences. If ETH really is such an amazing tactician as we are been told on a daily basis, how can he not address this? Is ETH too tactical and the players are too stupid to remember and implement them?
Given my priorities as a United fan have always been League, Europe then domestic cups, to see his goal of been a cup team, then I don’t see any metric in which I feel he should remain, even if we smash Villa tomorrow. He’s comfortably, and by a long way comfortably, the worst manager in 30/40 years and is so arrogant, he is disliked on a level I’ve never comprehended until recently.
He needs to feck off and take his utterly attriticous signings with him. Long will he be remembered as the manager who made us a mid table team having made the team weaker.
The worst part is him and his fans gloating about cup trophies and yet he has an absolutely abysmal record in Europe for us. 1 win in 10! Even that one win was a last minute penalty save. And yet he has the nerve to use these cups to big himself up and insinuate last season was a succes.
I can only hope INEOS are setting up his replacement behind the scenes. He’s an unequivocal failure on so many levels it’s almost unbelievable. LVG won us the cup too but I don’t see any of his acolytes hanging around. Why does Ten Hag have such a cult behind him? He’s turned us in to a calamity of a football team and he’ll never get us back to the top, not if we give him another 2 years, 5 years, 10 years. Never going to happen. It’s long past time to move on, it’s just failure after failure with this guy. The league cup is a mediocre trophy, and the FA Cup win was spawny as all hell if we’re being honest, and frankly we were a gnat’s todger away from Cov City knocking us out anyway. And yeah that cup final win was great, despite Man City turning up hungover. So thanks for that, but it’s hard to take watching this team anymore. I’m not a Manchester local, but I’m up at OT every game making a 2hr journey to watch feck all happen. I’m paying my dues at this point, but it’s got to get better than this. It’s fecking awful football, the worst I’ve ever seen. Time to move on.
I wouldn't worry about it, it was an honest mistake. @Stobzilla once pointed out to me that my joke about Puff Daddy running a nursery called Puff Daddy Day Care was inappropriate because, as we all know, he changed his name to P Diddy. Talk about me having egg on my face.
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