Erik ten Hag | 2024/25 | Sacked

Erik ten Hag

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Yagami said:
Oh, I know. I still see that everywhere. He has to stay even if we get humbled by Porto and Villa. Though I expect us to win one of those two.

I also find it bizarre that people who wanted him to stay after the final have already given up on him. Stand behind your choice!
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I'll give you the reasons why I wanted him to stay, and why I now want him gone.

To stay:
He had a decent first season, which showed me promise.
Record number of injuries was a very legit excuse to underperform last season. So, he had the benefit of doubt.
The club structure (or lack of it) didn't really help him in any way in the 2 windows.
Beating City in a cup final was no easy feat, so he deserves a pat on the back for that.

So, with the new ownership in place and taking the injuries into consideration - I backed him at the end of last season. And hoping that with a little bit of luck and a proper structure in place, he would be able to turn it around.

To leave:
I wanted to see improvement, but unfortunately he haven't. We've been appalling. He's had a proper structure, a pre-season, 5 new players... which is more than enough to fix the problems with the team. He doesn't have a legit excuse anymore. Nobody expected him to start beating everyone left and right. But we have already had 2 bad results at home which was reminiscent of last season, which means that he clearly has no idea what he's doing and how to improve the team.

Sadly things changed way too quickly in the space of 4 months, which is why the swaying of support seems surprising to you all.
 
RiqCantona said:
Of course we have. But getting 5 consecutive managers wrong in a decade is not down to the managers themselves is it? We've been a badly run club for a long time. There comes a time when their positions are untenable, like the position ETH is in right now. If we sacked them after every run of bad results, we would have ended up with 8 managers in 11 years with the same if not worse results.


Sacking more managers doesn't mean success. Chelsea have gone through 10 managers in 11 years. They've won 2 leagues and a Champions League more than us. But if you look closer -
Mourinho - 2.5 years - 1 PL and EFL Cup
Guus Hiddink - 8 months -
Conte - 2 years - 1 PL and FA Cup
Sarri - 1 year - Europa League
Lampard - 2.5 years
Tuchel - 1.5 years -UCL
Potter - 6 months
Lampard - 3 months
Poch - 1 year
Maresca - ?
Is it at all a surprise that the Chelsea's success was brought by hiring top managers and giving them more than 1 season? The only outlier here is Sarri who got success in his first and only season (but so did Mourinho for United). And on top of that, Tuchel's sacking after winning the UCL led to this massive downfall in the last 2. There is no way can you prove that chopping and changing managers brings success, because every club would be doing that if that were the case.
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If we're saying the managers performing poorly isn't down to the managers then there's no accountability anymore.

They all could have done so much better. We obviously have rubbish owners but the managers have still had more than enough to created good, competing teams.

There's no point listing them really as we all know but some of the decisons they've made have been absolutely shocking.

That's not hindsight either. Fans knew at the time that managers were making huge mistakes.
 
Captmfla said:
ETH has won trophies every single season for 8 consecutive seasons.

This put him as Top 10 Greatest manager of all time! (based on trophies won via consecutive seasons)
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Please tell me what trophy they are shooting for this year? The trophy for worst drop in points, the greatest underachiever trophy? I do not see this ship changing direction with him at the helm, so either you let him go down with the ship or relegation at this point or change direction before it sinks.
I keep hearing they have to wait, no they do not have to wait, they need change and they need it now. ETH is going to cost this team millions as it is, not to mention accessorial sales. While this is a sports team it is also a business. Enron waited, how did that go for them?
 
The Boy said:
I don't disagree with you on ETH, but this is a bad comparison as Birmingham have spent more cash this summer than all the other teams in league one have spent combined over the last two summers! My cat could win promotion with Birmingham with that level of spending, it's like they have constant FM cheat mode on.
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I dont agree. How much have we spent? How much have chelsea spent? Spending money doesnt guarantee success. You have to have a manager who gets a team playing, not just put expensive individuals on the pitch and expect them to do something (ironically what our current team is).

And what I am really saying is if a new manager can organise 20 new players into a complete 180 in their play style in 8 weeks and find success then its a joke to think it takes the sort of timescales some suggest for ETH to get us playing any sort of decent football.

He’s been in the job 3 years and had 600 - 700 million of players and we cant put 5 passes together most weeks. I see lower league teams playing better football than us on a more consistent basis.
 
I read the article from Laurie. It's very safe. Statements vague enough to make sense no matter what happens.

The only semi-interesting piece of information is that Ratcliffe will be at the Villa game.
 
CraftySoAndSo said:
When they say "taking a long term view, whatever happens against Porto and Villa", do they mean he's already sacked and they're lining up a replacement or that those two games don't matter and he's staying?
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My guess is that its intentionally vague language from a reporter who doesn't know.
 
RiqCantona said:
No other club has had the success by chopping and changing managers every season (except Chelsea for a few years). We've sacked the previous 4 (maybe ETH to be added to the list soon), and still haven't achieved anything of note. Having more managers wouldn't necessarily mean success.
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since 2013:

Man UtdChelseaReal MadridBayernJuventusNapoliBarcelonaInter
MoyesMourinhoAncelottiPepConteSarriMartinoMazzarri
GiggsHollandBenitezAncelottiAllegriAncelottiEnriqueMancini
LvGHiddinkZidaneSagnolSarriGattusoValverdeDe Boer
MourinhoConteLopeteguiHeynckesPirloSpallettiSetienVecchi
OleSarriSolariKovacMottaGarciaKoemanPioli
CarrickLampardZidaneFlickMazzarriBarjuanVecchi
RagnickTuchelAncelottiNagelsmannCalzonaXaviSpalletti
EtHPotterTuchelConteFlickConte
LampardKompanyInzaghi
Pochettino
Maresca

United's list is also greatly inflated by the number of caretakers.

Only at United is there this notion of holding on to managers. Now guess which club underperformed the most?
 
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TsuWave said:
since 2013:

Man UtdChelseaReal MadridBayernJuventusNapoliBarcelonaInter
MoyesMourinhoAncelottiPepConteSarriMartinoMazzarri
GiggsHollandBenitezAncelottiAllegriAncelottiEnriqueMancini
LvGHiddinkZidaneSagnolSarriGattusoValverdeDe Boer
MourinhoConteLopeteguiHeynckesPirloSpallettiSetienVecchi
OleSarriSolariKovacMottaGarciaKoemanPioli
CarrickLampardZidaneFlickMazzarriBarjuanVecchi
RagnickTuchelAncelottiNagelsmannCalzonaXaviSpalletti
EtHPotterTuchelConteFlickConte
LampardKompanyInzaghi
Pochettino
Maresca

United's list is also greatly inflated by the number of caretakers.

Only at United is there this notion of holding on to managers. Now guess which club underperformed the most?
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Inter and Chelsea went further down for short period, but overall it's a mix of us and them.
 
CraftySoAndSo said:
When they say "taking a long term view, whatever happens against Porto and Villa", do they mean he's already sacked and they're lining up a replacement or that those two games don't matter and he's staying?
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Hopefully it means he's getting potted and they want to look like they've got it all in hand and aren't being reactive.

Most likely means they've not got a scooby what to do and will instead play it safe and hope all turns out well, whilst giving the belief that this is all part of the plan. Picture a real life version of the "this is fine" meme with the dog in the burning building.
 
SparcMac said:
Inter and Chelsea went further down for short period, but overall it's a mix of us and them.
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Inter has won two league titles, and were in a CL final just a couple years ago. Chelsea has also won couple league titles, and a CL to boot.
 
SparcMac said:
Inter and Chelsea went further down for short period, but overall it's a mix of us and them.
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In that time Chelsea have won 2 Premier League titles and a Champions League and a Europa League. Their last 11 years have been miles better than ours.
 
GDaly95 said:
I read the article from Laurie. It's very safe. Statements vague enough to make sense no matter what happens.

The only semi-interesting piece of information is that Ratcliffe will be at the Villa game.
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The journalists go to when there’s no news. That and ‘sources who wish not to be named for obvious reasons’
 
Cassidy said:
No
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Thats what I thought, saying he has until the International break makes no sence because what happens if we somehow beat Porto and Villa but then lose to Brentford and Fenebache and the International break isnt a very good time to change manager anyway as the new manager will have hardly any time with the squad before the Brentford game.
 
RiqCantona said:
So, after having gone through 5 Managers in the last 11 years (averaging 2 seasons per manager) and not challenging for the title in that time...
your idea is to sack even more managers and become the next Chelsea?
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2 seasons for a manager having our budget should be enough to bring results. Moyes didn't even finnish his first year so that's 2 and half seasons for each of the following managers. Instead of progressing as seasons went on they all regressed.

The Chelsea comparison doesn't fly because they have gone through a lot more managers in that time.
 
OverratedOpinion said:
In that time Chelsea have won 2 Premier League titles and a Champions League and a Europa League. Their last 11 years have been miles better than ours.
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Yeah, true. Their highs were higher and lows were lower. It's been rough for us.
 
RedRocket9908 said:
Thats what I thought, saying he has until the International break makes no sence because what happens if we somehow beat Porto and Villa but then lose to Brentford and Fenebache and the International break isnt a very good time to change manager anyway as the new manager will have hardly any time with the squad before the Brentford game.
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He can beat them both and still get sacked during the international break. I don’t think its the results that is the defining factor.
 
This has obviously been done to death but yeah, no
RiqCantona said:
Record number of injuries was a very legit excuse to underperform last season. So, he had the benefit of doubt.
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It is in no way a very legit excuse. We still had the stronger starting 11 in a lot of games and still got our asses handed to ourselves.
The players available to the manager was way better than the dragging us to an oddsbeating 8th place would suggest.
 
It would be very odd if the new regime would let the odd result decide wether a change would be good or not.
If we suddenly stepped up and absolutely smashed Porto and Villa then that could be something to add to the bigger picture.
 
Gordon S said:
It would be very odd if the new regime would let the odd result decide wether a change would be good or not.
If we suddenly stepped up and absolutely smashed Porto and Villa then that could be something to add to the bigger picture.
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They already did in the summer.
 
GDaly95 said:
My guess is that its intentionally vague language from a reporter who doesn't know.
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I would say that it's intentionally vague language from a PR officer, language that is in line with the BS they have been pedalling since the Spurs game in an attempt to give the illusion of following a plan and being in control.
 
Gordon S said:
It would be very odd if the new regime would let the odd result decide wether a change would be good or not.
If we suddenly stepped up and absolutely smashed Porto and Villa then that could be something to add to the bigger picture.
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There is absolutely no evidence that ETH can step up for 2 games in a row, maybe 1 game he can fluke a result but I cannot see us stepping up and scoring more than 1 goal in 2 games in a row without conceding more than 2.

We will get battered by Villa, minimum 2-0 I would say.
 
SuperiorXI said:
No it's not, it's the equivalent of ETH spending 658m v.s. Chelsea's 630m
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In league 1 Birmingham spent 15 times more than the next highest spender (Peterborough on 2 million) If ETH were to be the biggest spender by that amount in his first season that's 15 times more than Chelsea's 630 million, which is 9.4 billion.
 
OverratedOpinion said:
In that time Chelsea have won 2 Premier League titles and a Champions League and a Europa League. Their last 11 years have been miles better than ours.
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Yeh, I always feel like while they were chopping and changing managers, they always had a strong base of quality, continental players.
Our recruitment in the same period has been a shambles.
 
Amsterdam Devil said:
They already did in the summer.
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I don't think so, I'm fairly confident he'd have been gone if they'd found someone available that matches what they want. Botching it and getting another in who isn't a top pick for them and being reactionary makes little sense, we just end up more than likely in the same cycle (again).
 
The result of the 2 games should pretty much mean nothing as the decision should already be made to sack him.

Keeping him on after a win is exactly what brought us to this position. This time INEOS would look even more ridiculous than after the FA cup.
 
IWat said:
I don't think so, I'm fairly confident he'd have been gone if they'd found someone available that matches what they want. Botching it and getting another in who isn't a top pick for them and being reactionary makes little sense, we just end up more than likely in the same cycle (again).
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I agree with you a little, but leaving Ten Hag makes little sense as well, see where we are now.
 
RiqCantona said:
Is it at all a surprise that the Chelsea's success was brought by hiring top managers and giving them more than 1 season? The only outlier here is Sarri who got success in his first and only season (but so did Mourinho for United). And on top of that, Tuchel's sacking after winning the UCL led to this massive downfall in the last 2. There is no way can you prove that chopping and changing managers brings success, because every club would be doing that if that were the case.
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There is no clear strategy for success like 'giving a manager time' or 'chopping and changing managers.' It is more complex than that. A club needs to be able to assess the manager's performance constantly, they need to look at short-term, medium-term, long-term objectives.

The problem with 'giving a manager time' is that it often becomes an excuse to stop assessing their performance in the short and medium term. It can bias the way you look at a season, as you might start assuming that negative issues are 'necessary growing pains' and whatnot.
 
romufc said:
There is absolutely no evidence that ETH can step up for 2 games in a row, maybe 1 game he can fluke a result but I cannot see us stepping up and scoring more than 1 goal in 2 games in a row without conceding more than 2.

We will get battered by Villa, minimum 2-0 I would say.
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The wildcard is will Villa be hungover from Bayern
 
croadyman said:
The wildcard is will Villa be hungover from Bayern
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I'm expecting us to turn up and needlessly prolong this. I remember when Mourinho looked dead in the water after being knocked out the carabao by Derby and losing 3-1 to West Ham. We were like 0-2 down at OT to Newcastle, and players he hated - bailed him out. We ended up winning 3-2.



this went on from early October til around mid December
 
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