Erik ten Hag | 2024/25 | Sacked

[Steve 007]

Stick to the plan, bounce back

 

[Longshanks]

I wonder if the decision is already made after Sunday's horror show, but the decision was not to throw a new manager whoever that may be right in at the deep end with two difficult away games to navigate. Straight away and no time to really have an impact.

I'm thinking positively that a replacement is lined up and ready to go as soon as the international break hits to avoid putting a new manager immediately under the pump. Every chance we lose the next two whoever is in charge at this stage.

International break seems a good time to make the change.

 

[Bright_Eyes]

This the same really dim logic we have been hearing over the last year and during the latter stages of ole.

People talk like just giving a failing manager more time will eventually work out.

In reality there are many more examples of the opposite. Its not the days of fergie any more and he was very much a special manager which ten hag clearly isn't.

Arteta seems to be the commonly used comparison but for most of the time there was progress to show in terms of playing style even if that wasn't reflected in results. They also had a much smaller budget in his first years.

If villa had applied the same logic with Gerrard they would still be languishing in lower mid table

Another difference with Arteta is that since he arrived at Arsenal they finished on 56, 61, 69, 84, 89 points. There was a quantifiable progression in the league, though it was a bit slow for some.

ETH is on 75, 60 so far. I think we'd need to be looking to get 75+ points this season to keep him. If we continue to pick up points at the current rate this season, we'll finish on 44, which would obviously lead to a sacking. If we don't want to finish under 75 points this season the plug will need to be pulled very soon. To get 75 points now with this poor start, we'd need to play like an 80+ points team for the rest of the season, and since I can't see that happening, we should probably just sack now.

 

[Zumbi]

I wonder if the decision is already made after Sunday's horror show, but the decision was not to throw a new manager whoever that may be right in at the deep end with two difficult away games to navigate. Straight away and no time to really have an impact.

I'm thinking positively that a replacement is lined up and ready to go as soon as the international break hits to avoid putting a new manager immediately under the pump. Every chance we lose the next two whoever is in charge at this stage.

International break seems a good time to make the change.

Probably, although I actually think Porto away has less pressure for the incoming or interim than Brentford at home. Losing that one in front if the home crowd would be a terrible start.

 

[santeria13]

Current projection with him in charge is 12th and below. Do you honestly think any sane management structure will let United hover above the relegation zone for that long? There will be protests if this current way of playing continues for much longer.

There should have been protests months ago

 

[Dans]

I suppose he couldn't really say it's panic stations at this point, even if it clearly is. Was this a response to a journos Q about whether it's time to panic or did he volunteer that gem? Anyone know?

 

[VP89]

Where did I say that?

Why do you always jump to these straw men?

I never said anything about anyone not being a supporter of the club.

I variously described a failure to sack Ten Hag now as either incompetence or dithering. I don’t see what can be gained from it, but I can see it doing further harm.

Bullshit. I said below he's one loss away from a sack in my books and you claimed I must support a rival team.
By your own logic, those running the club do too.

I'd give him the next two before internationals and sack if he doesn't win the next two. That's how thin the ice is under him.

Amazing. That confirms it for me. You support a rival team and you’re just on a massive wind up. Well played.

 

[Sarni]

Bullshit. I said below he's one loss away from a sack in my books and you claimed I must support a rival team.
By your own logic, those running the club do too.

You honestly would be fine keeping him if he simply flukes a win or two in the next two?

 

[santeria13]

He's been taking PR lessons from "Washee", best answer to a defeat is to come out waffling and keep living in a fantasy land.

Respect to the lady interviewing him that she manages to stay awake the whole time.

Blimey, I'm so sick of hearing his voice, his excuses, the word 'process', the gloating. How do people like this man?

 

[santeria13]

So, after having gone through 5 Managers in the last 11 years (averaging 2 seasons per manager) and not challenging for the title in that time...
your idea is to sack even more managers and become the next Chelsea?

Chelsea's frequent sacking of managers has led to more success than we've had in the last 10 years, has it not? We've always given managers far too much time.

 

[Blood Mage]

Shameless. How about their “pathetic” tactical set ups?

A good system would drastically reduce the damage these individual mistakes are causing. The reality is our system is frail and requires perfect performances from our players to succeed.

 

[santeria13]

No they wouldnt, they waited until top 4 was not mathemathic possible before sacking a manager.

So they would have sacked him last season per your own logic, which means the post you replied to was correct.

 

[The Firestarter]

Blimey, I'm so sick of hearing his voice, his excuses, the word 'process', the gloating. How do people like this man?

They don't

 

[Holocene]

Chelsea's frequent sacking of managers has led to more success than we've had in the last 10 years, has it not? We've always given managers far too much time.

Exactly. Can't believe some people are still peddling the "we've sacked managers and it hasn't worked" spiel.

 

[RedRover]

Chelsea's frequent sacking of managers has led to more success than we've had in the last 10 years, has it not? We've always given managers far too much time.

Whilst I'm not advocating the club being run like Chelsea, the idea that sticking with managers for the sake of it when they've proved they're not good enough some how makes us a better run club is bizarre, and now seemingly unique to some United fans.

Managers deserve time. After enough time, doing the same things again and again and expecting a different outcome is madness. Often managers who get a chance at a top club having managed at a level down are just not good enough to be amongst the very elite in the game. No shame in it, for them or the club - it's sensible to move on.

No other top club - those winning titles and enjoying success, would have stuck with him this far. The chaos at the club saved him because there was a chance that the problems were a symptom of that, rather than him being the cause. I now personally think he is, mostly, the cause.

 

[Zumbi]

Bullshit. I said below he's one loss away from a sack in my books and you claimed I must support a rival team.
By your own logic, those running the club do too.

Oh, pages and pages ago as part of a different debate about a different thing with different people!? Jeez, you are desperate.

I have specifically said I think those running the club are either incompetent or dithering. Try engaging with the point actually being made for once.

And you actually said you’d give him two more games. And I thought that was such a ridiculous stance to take after the Spurs humiliation that I took the piss out of you and said you must be a supporter of another team on a wind up. I stand by that.

 

[spwd]

Oh I was at that point last winter when we repeatedly played that horrid pressing/direct garbage without a single adjustment while getting battered by every team in the league.

As soon as he said we're not going to be playing like Ajax that was me done. That's one if not the biggest reason why he was hired ffs!

 

[stevoc]

These thin skinned feckers probably can't wait to see the back of the whole coaching set up. They probably just want Ole back so he can be their mate again

All five of them?

 

[Lentwood]

A good system would drastically reduce the damage these individual mistakes are causing. The reality is our system is frail and requires perfect performances from our players to succeed.

Nothing annoys me more than these people who keep popping up blaming the players or claiming "signing X would fix our issues'. It's obvious to anybody with half a brain cell that our problems are systematic and tactical.

There's some who think you need XI perfect players to look like a half-competent football team.

Imagine it was us that had signed Aaron Ramsdale, Ben White, Tomiyasu, Zinchenko, Partey, Gabriel Jesus, Fabio Vieira, Lokonga, Leandro Trossard, Jakob Kiowr, Jurrien Timber, Kai Havertz, Declan Rice and Jorginho for about £550m....would we would be putting 85pts+ on the board two seasons running under EtH? Of course not.

Those players and that squad has come together under Arteta because he's an exceptional coach and leader. There's nothing wrong with this squad that a proper coach couldn't fix.

 

[spwd]

Hope we get it over quickly and not ruin another season with slow painful speculation. I wanted him to stay but he's cooked.

It's already past "quickly". He should have been kicked out straight after spurs.

 

[santeria13]

I’m ashamed to admit it but there’s a small part of me that wants to get smashed by Porto tomorrow. If only because I fear if we scrape results the next two games we’ll be doing this song and dance of “he might get sacked or might stay on” all year as our season goes down the toilet and we are left cutting ties in Feb/March when it’s obvious every goal we had is unachievable.

Because I also 100% believe an interim can get this team really close to top 4 and playing better stuff. It wouldn’t be hard to improve.

Don't care if it makes me a 'bad fan' or 'fake', but I'd rather have lost the fa cup final if it meant ETH was sacked right after. I'd see it as a long-term win and honestly couldn't give two fecks about the carabao cup or FA-cup. It's a nice bonus, but that's about it. Would I rather lose the next two games if it means getting him out as opposed to scrapping a win and a draw and carrying on with this shit show? Yes, yes I would.

 

[spwd]

I'll stick with backing him.

More in hope, than expectation.

I think there's just no balance to the pace of the play, the team very rarely displays or maintains a consistent tempo throughout long periods in games, this effects the teams ability to build sustainable pressure on the opposition.

I think this makes it more difficult for players to stay focused enough to keep their shape, pace and concentration levels up. The games often go from being too slow in possession to 100mph in transitions. It's too erratic.

In the PL, I think you have to be able to maintain a higher level of intensity in games on and off the ball. You cannot allow the opposition time to get into set defensive positions off the balk and when they do you have to be able to shift the ball quickly and accurately to catch them out. Otherwise it becomes too difficult to break teams down and create enough good chances to score goals.

But why? You've just listed many things that are wrong and absolutely zero that are good. Sorry but this is plain stupid at this point.

 

[erikcred]

I'll stick with backing him.

More in hope, than expectation.

You'd do very well in the bridge buying business.

 

[Marwood]

Does anyone else wonder why we’re making this whole “rebuild” thing much more complicated than it needs to be?… this isn’t rocket science.. focus attention on best goal scorer possible… next, find players who can feed him.. next, find midfield players who look after the ball well… find fullbacks who are good at knowing when to overlap.. buy fast defenders… just those things alone, mixed with the quality of players we realistically should be attracting would have us sitting in the top four most seasons..there’s too many kids trying to work out weird systems in positions we should never really have in the first place, I don’t know what any of them are trying to do in possession, and how the other players help them achieve that, it’s all so random…I watch a lot of football and the team as a whole baffles me..

Absolutely.

It really shouldn't be difficult to produce a team that competes when as a manager you have the advantages that come with being at United.

 

[Yagami]

Yes.

@stevoc @Robbie Boy @Sarni @Yagami as you can see, there's a good number of our fans who still just don't get it. These are the guys who need to see this through for the penny to drop.

Oh, I know. I still see that everywhere. He has to stay even if we get humbled by Porto and Villa. Though I expect us to win one of those two.

I also find it bizarre that people who wanted him to stay after the final have already given up on him. Stand behind your choice!

 

[Marwood]

So, after having gone through 5 Managers in the last 11 years (averaging 2 seasons per manager) and not challenging for the title in that time...
your idea is to sack even more managers and become the next Chelsea?

In the same period how many player transfers have we got wrong?

With that sizeable number in mind why isn't it feasible we've got just 5 managerial appointments wrong?

 

[spwd]

There has to be a deeper reason why manager after manager keeps failing to inspire this team to play consistently.

ETH doesn’t sound like the guy who can connect emotionally to players and inspire each day, but some blame has to fall on players for literally giving up mid game and not showing fight.

Sack ETH but no guarantee any new manager will suddenly make us consistent. Just looking at these players on the pitch and their approach towards games just gives the vibe they are either not serious enough, or just dumb as a collective.

It just will be one of the biggest mysteries ever why any manager in last 10 years can’t make us play consistently to a certain level.

Look at it from the players point of view. If your boss kept telling you week after week to do your job in a way that makes it harder in every way would you not get pissed off? Especially as the boss seems to think his instructions are perfect and the mistakes you keep making are pathetic and nothing to do with his stupid instructions.

 

[E-mal]

Oh, I know. I still see that everywhere. He has to stay even if we get humbled by Porto and Villa. Though I expect us to win one of those two.

I also find it bizarre that people who wanted him to stay after the final have already given up on him. Stand behind your choice!

My thoughts too, like what were they expecting?
And then you have got others that say 2 more games as if it makes any difference even if we end up winning. The next humiliation is at the corner anyways

 

[spwd]

Im arguing it takes longer than a day

But after 18 month's plus of this it really shouldn't.

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

Just 2 more games, or even better sounding, just 4 more days.

 

[Sarni]

Oh, I know. I still see that everywhere. He has to stay even if we get humbled by Porto and Villa. Though I expect us to win one of those two.

I also find it bizarre that people who wanted him to stay after the final have already given up on him. Stand behind your choice!

It’s only 6 games into league season and surely they should be able to see that we only lost to Liverpool because our forwards could not convert - as already pointed out by someone in this thread xG was equal - and only lost to Spurs because of Bruno’s undeserved red card. Should have also beaten Brighton if not for offside, and do I even need to remind how sublime we were in those 45 minutes at Palace?

 

[Sarni]

Absolutely.

It really shouldn't be difficult to produce a team that competes when as a manager you have the advantages that come with being at United.

I’d argue it’s actually more difficult to spend as much money as we have and not even once in more than a decade look like a serious team. These are unprecedented levels of incompetence that I don’t think we had witnessed before.

 

[Marwood]

I’d argue it’s actually more difficult to spend as much money as we have and not even once in more than a decade look like a serious team. These are unprecedented levels of incompetence that I don’t think we had witnessed before.

Agree and have made that point before myself.

It's almost impressive for managers to get it this wrong when we have so much in our favour.

Especially when fans with zero experience of management have called out mistakes in real time and proven to be right.

 

[NewGlory]

Disagree - you can’t just disregard charisma. It’s an important leadership quality in any realm. It’s not a coincidence that many of the best leaders are very charismatic. The best football managers have to tactically astute but also be great communicators and motivators.

Ideally yes, thinking that is United's problem...

Ben Franklin wouldnt be able to
motivate this bunch of lazy assholes

 

[spwd]

I’d argue it’s actually more difficult to spend as much money as we have and not even once in more than a decade look like a serious team. These are unprecedented levels of incompetence that I don’t think we had witnessed before.

I think the main reason we've been so bad for so long are the total resets we've done after each manager which have taken around 3 years each.
Hopefully that's not going to happen again with the new structure but how they've handled Erik doesn't fill me with the confidence I had when they first came in.

 

[Jezpeza]

Blimey, I'm so sick of hearing his voice, his excuses, the word 'process', the gloating. How do people like this man?

I’m sick to the back teeth of the whole ‘process’ thing.

Look where Emery took Villa already. Ange immediately got Spurs doing something different. Slot has gone straight in at Liverpool. Tuchel had an immediate impact at Chelsea.

Hell, even watching Birmingham against Wrexham the other night, they’ve apparantly signed about 20 new players and a new coach over the summer and have gone from relegation playing kick and rush to the highest average possession in the entire football league over 8 weeks in the summer yet we are sold this snake oil about needing 46 transfer windows and years of coaching to get us to have half a semblance of a decent football side.

How can anyone still buy this shite?

 

[Sarni]

Ideally yes, thinking that is United's problem...

Ben Franklin wouldnt be able to
motivate this bunch of lazy assholes

It’s the laziest excuse we’ve used for every manager as well. You don’t become a top level athlete while having a work ethic this poor, unless you are supremely talented which I’m sure few of our players can claim to be. Also, player turnover has been so huge it’s hard to believe each time we come across individuals with exactly same issues.

They are just horribly coached. Give them a good manager and they will look a lot better.

 

[Matt Varnish]

It’s only 6 games into league season and surely they should be able to see that we only lost to Liverpool because our forwards could not convert - as already pointed out by someone in this thread xG was equal - and only lost to Spurs because of Bruno’s undeserved red card. Should have also beaten Brighton if not for offside, and do I even need to remind how sublime we were in those 45 minutes at Palace?

This is't true at all, Spurs were all over us like rash, if Werner's finishinghad been better we'd have been 3-0 down in 15 minutes

 

[Vidooq]

Aston Villa is on the path that we wanted United to be. Progress, year after year.

 

[soapythecat]

Aston Villa is on the path that we wanted United to be. Progress, year after year.

Because they have a good manager. Oozes confidence and clearly knows how to fire a team up. We have Erik and some on here still want him, regardless of 2 defeats this week.