UnofficialDevil
Anti Scottish and Preoccupied with Donkeys.
Suprise suprise the rebuild/process doesn't need to take 5 yearsAston Villa is on the path that we wanted United to be. Progress, year after year.
Suprise suprise the rebuild/process doesn't need to take 5 yearsAston Villa is on the path that we wanted United to be. Progress, year after year.
The worst part is many of those people who wanted him to stay of the final were firmly in the ETH out camp before it. That single game made many do a U-turn on their opinion, and 6 games in most of them have done another U-turn. It's actually quite ridiculous when you think about it.Oh, I know. I still see that everywhere. He has to stay even if we get humbled by Porto and Villa. Though I expect us to win one of those two.
I also find it bizarre that people who wanted him to stay after the final have already given up on him. Stand behind your choice!
I made no prediction was the pointI don’t care what your justifications for that prediction were - I read them at the time and wasn’t convinced by them. And we all know how it went.
Because reasonsBut after 18 month's plus of this it really shouldn't.
I do understand that there is context to Ten Hag situation in the first year. The fact that we are shifting players to clubs like Napoli, Komo, AEK, Girona, Burnley etc, shows that we were not blessed with quality players that any of the top clubs will want. We were even forced to let some of them go for peanuts or even pay them to leave, as nobody would want to take them with a decent fee. He wasn't dealt a good hand roster wise, like Maresca, Kompany or Slot. However, it's Emery that's basically exposing all of Ten Hags excuses.Emery at Villa, Maresca at Chelsea, Motta at Juve, Slot at Liverpool, even Kompany at Bayern - all doing well (and everyone except for Emery been at their clubs for only few months) after a short period. Not saying they'll all succeed but ten Hag is in his 3rd season and is trying to sell this story of transition. He doesn't believe in it either and I'm sure is waiting to get the compensation fee when he inevitably gets sacked soon.
Agreed. I'm fine with a process that goes somewhere but after 2 years there should be signs of progress and there isn't.I’m sick to the back teeth of the whole ‘process’ thing.
Look where Emery took Villa already. Ange immediately got Spurs doing something different. Slot has gone straight in at Liverpool. Tuchel had an immediate impact at Chelsea.
Hell, even watching Birmingham against Wrexham the other night, they’ve apparantly signed about 20 new players and a new coach over the summer and have gone from relegation playing kick and rush to the highest average possession in the entire football league over 8 weeks in the summer yet we are sold this snake oil about needing 46 transfer windows and years of coaching to get us to have half a semblance of a decent football side.
How can anyone still buy this shite?
The things he was saying last year about he was "a winner" and he'd win things wherever he goes next made me think he was already pitching himself for the next job. He must have thought that he was finished at United but for a little while longer, he's still here.Emery at Villa, Maresca at Chelsea, Motta at Juve, Slot at Liverpool, even Kompany at Bayern - all doing well (and everyone except for Emery been at their clubs for only few months) after a short period. Not saying they'll all succeed but ten Hag is in his 3rd season and is trying to sell this story of transition. He doesn't believe in it either and I'm sure is waiting to get the compensation fee when he inevitably gets sacked soon.
I made no prediction was the point
Read the post. You referenced Spurs as if they are better. We’ll beat Spurs in my opinion
It did. Into shape of turdWasn't his shouting in Dutch supposed to whip this squad into shape?
Yeah this is true. We just need to be patient. Also last seasons poor league form was clearly due to injuries, bad luck & no structure above him. Once Martinez was back for the final, our tactics all fell into place.It’s only 6 games into league season and surely they should be able to see that we only lost to Liverpool because our forwards could not convert - as already pointed out by someone in this thread xG was equal - and only lost to Spurs because of Bruno’s undeserved red card. Should have also beaten Brighton if not for offside, and do I even need to remind how sublime we were in those 45 minutes at Palace?
No because they should be extremely well prepared for it.Because reasons
I guess we are struck with him for the foreseeable future. INEOS won't accept their mistake and will let him carry on. It'd be in our best interest if he can turn this around. I don't think he is capable of doing it in the league but hopefully we'll do reasonably well in Europa as it already looks like that's our best shot at CL football next season. Which we desperately need both for prestige and monetary reasons.
The question is,,,Whilst I'm not advocating the club being run like Chelsea, the idea that sticking with managers for the sake of it when they've proved they're not good enough some how makes us a better run club is bizarre, and now seemingly unique to some United fans.
Managers deserve time. After enough time, doing the same things again and again and expecting a different outcome is madness. Often managers who get a chance at a top club having managed at a level down are just not good enough to be amongst the very elite in the game. No shame in it, for them or the club - it's sensible to move on.
No other top club - those winning titles and enjoying success, would have stuck with him this far. The chaos at the club saved him because there was a chance that the problems were a symptom of that, rather than him being the cause. I now personally think he is, mostly, the cause.
The things he was saying last year about he was "a winner" and he'd win things wherever he goes next made me think he was already pitching himself for the next job. He must have thought that he was finished at United but for a little while longer, he's still here.
Ironically Ten Hag did pretty well in his first season and so did Ole for the first 12 games of his stint. Let's not get carried away, and see how this list of managers performs at the end of the season.Emery at Villa, Maresca at Chelsea, Motta at Juve, Slot at Liverpool, even Kompany at Bayern - all doing well (and everyone except for Emery been at their clubs for only few months) after a short period. Not saying they'll all succeed but ten Hag is in his 3rd season and is trying to sell this story of transition. He doesn't believe in it either and I'm sure is waiting to get the compensation fee when he inevitably gets sacked soon.
It seems so strange to me that people call him a good cup manager when he's been so bad in the European cups. I mean sure, he won the domestic cups but not qualifying from that CL group we had and not winning the Europa cannot be dismissed.
Its not different. It was the exact same topic of whether he should be sacked straight after spursOh, pages and pages ago as part of a different debate about a different thing with different people!? Jeez, you are desperate.
I have specifically said I think those running the club are either incompetent or dithering. Try engaging with the point actually being made for once.
And you actually said you’d give him two more games. And I thought that was such a ridiculous stance to take after the Spurs humiliation that I took the piss out of you and said you must be a supporter of another team on a wind up. I stand by that.
Not if he flukes a win, no.You honestly would be fine keeping him if he simply flukes a win or two in the next two?
Remember when LVG used to say “philosophy” all the time too?Blimey, I'm so sick of hearing his voice, his excuses, the word 'process', the gloating. How do people like this man?
It did. Into shape of turd
ETH has won trophies every single season for 8 consecutive seasons.
This put him as Top 10 Greatest manager of all time! (based on trophies won via consecutive seasons)
The question is,,,
Managers deserve time, but time to do what?
Some club is survival, others is European places, others is winning titles, others is remaining in the PL
So, for us should be Why do we need a Manager.. The manager is supposed to achieve what?
Then is that aspirations feasible with current manager? Then you would know if giving the manager time is a correct decision
Not at all. Timing is important. But what is enough time for a manager? How much did the previous ones get? Moyes (10 months), LvG (2 years), Mourinho (2.5 years), Ole (3 years), ETH (2 year+ and counting). You are saying that all these managers should have been sacked earlier than they were, which makes no sense. It takes time to build a winning team and 2 years is a fair enough time to see where the team is going. No other club has had the success by chopping and changing managers every season (except Chelsea for a few years). We've sacked the previous 4 (maybe ETH to be added to the list soon), and still haven't achieved anything of note. Having more managers wouldn't necessarily mean success.Yes.
@stevoc @Robbie Boy @Sarni @Yagami as you can see, there's a good number of our fans who still just don't get it. These are the guys who need to see this through for the penny to drop.
I think the main reason we've been so bad for so long are the total resets we've done after each manager which have taken around 3 years each.
Hopefully that's not going to happen again with the new structure but how they've handled Erik doesn't fill me with the confidence I had when they first came in.
'Philosophy' is a word bandied about so much it's lost any real meaning.Remember when LVG used to say “philosophy” all the time too?
ETH is like LVG with the charisma sucked out. And LVG (as boring as they were) had the whole te following his orders
Pop his ego - time to go
Why did we bother with all this great new 'structure' if the next manager is just going to decide everything again anyway? Ratcliffe could have saved himself a few bob if we're going to carry on as we always have.I don't know. There are a lot of players in that squad the new manager in mightn't fancy at all and might want out the door. Cue another "reset" and on and on it goes.
I don't disagree with you on ETH, but this is a bad comparison as Birmingham have spent more cash this summer than all the other teams in league one have spent combined over the last two summers! My cat could win promotion with Birmingham with that level of spending, it's like they have constant FM cheat mode on.Hell, even watching Birmingham against Wrexham the other night, they’ve apparantly signed about 20 new players and a new coach over the summer and have gone from relegation playing kick and rush to the highest average possession in the entire football league over 8 weeks in the summer yet we are sold this snake oil about needing 46 transfer windows and years of coaching to get us to have half a semblance of a decent football side.
Of course we have. But getting 5 consecutive managers wrong in a decade is not down to the managers themselves is it? We've been a badly run club for a long time. There comes a time when their positions are untenable, like the position ETH is in right now. If we sacked them after every run of bad results, we would have ended up with 8 managers in 11 years with the same if not worse results.In the same period how many player transfers have we got wrong?
With that sizeable number in mind why isn't it feasible we've got just 5 managerial appointments wrong?
Sacking more managers doesn't mean success. Chelsea have gone through 10 managers in 11 years. They've won 2 leagues and a Champions League more than us. But if you look closer -Chelsea's frequent sacking of managers has led to more success than we've had in the last 10 years, has it not? We've always given managers far too much time.
It’s all well and good buying all the ingredients in the shop, but someone still has to bake the cake well or you’ve spoilt your ingredientsI don't disagree with you on ETH, but this is a bad comparison as Birmingham have spent more cash this summer than all the other teams in league one have spent combined over the last two summers! My cat could win promotion with Birmingham with that level of spending, it's like they have constant FM cheat mode on.
So are you advocating keeping ETH?Of course we have. But getting 5 consecutive managers wrong in a decade is not down to the managers themselves is it? We've been a badly run club for a long time. There comes a time when their positions are untenable, like the position ETH is in right now. If we sacked them after every run of bad results, we would have ended up with 8 managers in 11 years with the same if not worse results.
Sacking more managers doesn't mean success. Chelsea have gone through 10 managers in 11 years. They've won 2 leagues and a Champions League more than us. But if you look closer -
Mourinho - 2.5 years - 1 PL and EFL Cup
Guus Hiddink - 8 months -
Conte - 2 years - 1 PL and FA Cup
Sarri - 1 year - Europa League
Lampard - 2.5 years
Tuchel - 1.5 years -UCL
Potter - 6 months
Lampard - 3 months
Poch - 1 year
Maresca - ?
Is it at all a surprise that the Chelsea's success was brought by hiring top managers and giving them more than 1 season? The only outlier here is Sarri who got success in his first and only season (but so did Mourinho for United). And on top of that, Tuchel's sacking after winning the UCL led to this massive downfall in the last 2. There is no way can you prove that chopping and changing managers brings success, because every club would be doing that if that were the case.
Upto a point, I agree but, this summer Birmingham spent 30M quid, the next biggest spender in the league was Peterborough who spent 2M, after that the rest of the league spent a combined 6.2M.It’s all well and good buying all the ingredients in the shop, but someone still has to bake the cake well or you’ve spoilt your ingredients
Ha! I like your optimism. I think we’d still have issues because of his tactics with midfield non existent as everUpto a point, I agree but, this summer Birmingham spent 30M quid, the next biggest spender in the league was Peterborough who spent 2M, after that the rest of the league spent a combined 6.2M.
With that kind of advantage any manager should be doing well, I'm not sure Birmingham's success is a good stick to be beating ETH with, especially when there are so many good sticks!
It's the equivalent of ETH spending 9.4 Billion in his first season (15 times more than Chelsea's 630M) if he'd had that kind of money, I think the league would look a bit different now!
Sneaky.Of course we have. But getting 5 consecutive managers wrong in a decade is not down to the managers themselves is it? We've been a badly run club for a long time. There comes a time when their positions are untenable, like the position ETH is in right now. If we sacked them after every run of bad results, we would have ended up with 8 managers in 11 years with the same if not worse results.
Sacking more managers doesn't mean success. Chelsea have gone through 10 managers in 11 years. They've won 2 leagues and a Champions League more than us. But if you look closer -
Mourinho - 2.5 years - 1 PL and EFL Cup
Guus Hiddink - 8 months -
Conte - 2 years - 1 PL and FA Cup
Sarri - 1 year - Europa League
Lampard - 2.5 years
Tuchel - 1.5 years -UCL
Potter - 6 months
Lampard - 3 months
Poch - 1 year
Maresca - ?
Is it at all a surprise that the Chelsea's success was brought by hiring top managers and giving them more than 1 season? The only outlier here is Sarri who got success in his first and only season (but so did Mourinho for United). And on top of that, Tuchel's sacking after winning the UCL led to this massive downfall in the last 2. There is no way can you prove that chopping and changing managers brings success, because every club would be doing that if that were the case.
ETH has won trophies every single season for 8 consecutive seasons.
This put him as Top 10 Greatest manager of all time! (based on trophies won via consecutive seasons)
No it's not, it's the equivalent of ETH spending 658m v.s. Chelsea's 630mUpto a point, I agree but, this summer Birmingham spent 30M quid, the next biggest spender in the league was Peterborough who spent 2M, after that the rest of the league spent a combined 6.2M.
With that kind of advantage any manager should be doing well, I'm not sure Birmingham's success is a good stick to be beating ETH with, especially when there are so many good sticks!
It's the equivalent of ETH spending 9.4 Billion in his first season (15 times more than Chelsea's 630M) if he'd had that kind of money, I think the league would look a bit different now!