Emery at Villa, Maresca at Chelsea, Motta at Juve, Slot at Liverpool, even Kompany at Bayern - all doing well (and everyone except for Emery been at their clubs for only few months) after a short period. Not saying they'll all succeed but ten Hag is in his 3rd season and is trying to sell this story of transition. He doesn't believe in it either and I'm sure is waiting to get the compensation fee when he inevitably gets sacked soon.
Erik ten Hag | 2024/25 | Sacked
- Thread starter Cheimoon
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I made no prediction was the point
Because reasons
I do understand that there is context to Ten Hag situation in the first year. The fact that we are shifting players to clubs like Napoli, Komo, AEK, Girona, Burnley etc, shows that we were not blessed with quality players that any of the top clubs will want. We were even forced to let some of them go for peanuts or even pay them to leave, as nobody would want to take them with a decent fee. He wasn't dealt a good hand roster wise, like Maresca, Kompany or Slot. However, it's Emery that's basically exposing all of Ten Hags excuses.
You can't spin the transition now, it's not even a good excuse for being humiliated by Spurs at home, after spending 600m plus on your own players. I watched a clip earlier from Arsenal's Amazon documentary after they were demolished by City 5-0 and everyone wanted Arteta's head.
Arteta had one on one discussion with Josh Kroenke, in the dinner, where everyone working at Arsenal can see that he has the trust of the owners behind him. Ten Hag on the other hand is a coach who was publicly undermined this summer by the new regime. Two totally different aproaches. One of them turned it around by being backed, and the second one is given till Monday to survive.
He was given time, he was given a free pass on many embarrassing performances, he was backed in the financial constraints of the clubs PSR limits by buying the exact players he wanted. All he had to show for was progress, and we are not seeing it, while almost everyone around us is improving. I had sympathy for him last year due to the sheer amount of injuries in the defence, but not this year. Saddest part is that I can't even convince myself to have an ounce of belief that he can turn this around. Such a grim feeling.
Agreed. I'm fine with a process that goes somewhere but after 2 years there should be signs of progress and there isn't.
The things he was saying last year about he was "a winner" and he'd win things wherever he goes next made me think he was already pitching himself for the next job. He must have thought that he was finished at United but for a little while longer, he's still here.
Watching United has lowered my standards so much that every team I watch seem impressive.
Put 6 passes together in opposition half - wow, haven't seen Utd do that often
Control possesion despite high press - wow, they must have players that are way better than us technically
Defend as a unit with minimal spaces - wow, must be very well organised
This is after watching likes of Lille, Villa, Benfica(excellent today vs Atletico)
Put 6 passes together in opposition half - wow, haven't seen Utd do that often
Control possesion despite high press - wow, they must have players that are way better than us technically
Defend as a unit with minimal spaces - wow, must be very well organised
This is after watching likes of Lille, Villa, Benfica(excellent today vs Atletico)
It did. Into shape of turdWasn't his shouting in Dutch supposed to whip this squad into shape?
Yeah this is true. We just need to be patient. Also last seasons poor league form was clearly due to injuries, bad luck & no structure above him. Once Martinez was back for the final, our tactics all fell into place.
No because they should be extremely well prepared for it.
I guess we are struck with him for the foreseeable future. INEOS won't accept their mistake and will let him carry on. It'd be in our best interest if he can turn this around. I don't think he is capable of doing it in the league but hopefully we'll do reasonably well in Europa as it already looks like that's our best shot at CL football next season. Which we desperately need both for prestige and monetary reasons.
Isn’t he at one win in our last nine European games? Next to no chance we’re doing well in Europa under him.
The question is,,,
Managers deserve time, but time to do what?
Some club is survival, others is European places, others is winning titles, others is remaining in the PL
So, for us should be Why do we need a Manager.. The manager is supposed to achieve what?
Then is that aspirations feasible with current manager? Then you would know if giving the manager time is a correct decision
Yeah you could well be right about that
We honestly cannot be that bad with this set of players. Just keep it simple and have a coherent approach to the game. Any other incoming manager is going to look like a godsend. But it may not be because they are actually good. Sigh.
ETH has won trophies every single season for 8 consecutive seasons.
This put him as Top 10 Greatest manager of all time! (based on trophies won via consecutive seasons)
This put him as Top 10 Greatest manager of all time! (based on trophies won via consecutive seasons)
It seems so strange to me that people call him a good cup manager when he's been so bad in the European cups. I mean sure, he won the domestic cups but not qualifying from that CL group we had and not winning the Europa cannot be dismissed.
Ironically Ten Hag did pretty well in his first season and so did Ole for the first 12 games of his stint. Let's not get carried away, and see how this list of managers performs at the end of the season.
Not sure what exactly happened, but in his first season we looked pretty decent. Hell, we even knocked out Barcelona and had Sevilla pinned down in EL(which is their competition) until De Gea, Malacia and Maguire collectively decided to gift them 5 goals which ended our run in Europe. Ever since then we've been shit.
Personally I blamed ETH's stubborness. He played a more progressive version of Ole ball. Our issue started when he was trying to implement this possesion style. Ever since then it looks that any team can slaughter us at will. We just need to be more compact and for Erik to be less stubborn, but at this point I'm not holding my breath.
Its not different. It was the exact same topic of whether he should be sacked straight after spurs
You said that if I didn't want to sack him straight after spurs I must support a rival. The decision makers are doing the same thing.
Be consistent or pipe down.
Not if he flukes a win, no.
Remember when LVG used to say “philosophy” all the time too?
ETH is like LVG with the charisma sucked out. And LVG (as boring as they were) had the whole te following his orders
Pop his ego - time to go
So shouting doesn't work as a means of motivation for adults?
Maybe he just didn't shout enough.
Except he hasn't, he's won trophies in the last 4 seasons. And the double in Holland in 2019.
Firstly and in my opinion, relatively early following an appointment, a team should have some kind of identity and there should be some idea of what system they are trying to employ.
Progress is then pretty easy to measure - are you winning games and where did you finish in the league at the end of the season. Progress isn't necessarily linear, but over time is easy to see in a game where wins mean points and league position. There is no better test than a league season.
Not at all. Timing is important. But what is enough time for a manager? How much did the previous ones get? Moyes (10 months), LvG (2 years), Mourinho (2.5 years), Ole (3 years), ETH (2 year+ and counting). You are saying that all these managers should have been sacked earlier than they were, which makes no sense. It takes time to build a winning team and 2 years is a fair enough time to see where the team is going. No other club has had the success by chopping and changing managers every season (except Chelsea for a few years). We've sacked the previous 4 (maybe ETH to be added to the list soon), and still haven't achieved anything of note. Having more managers wouldn't necessarily mean success.
I don't know. There are a lot of players in that squad the new manager in mightn't fancy at all and might want out the door. Cue another "reset" and on and on it goes.
'Philosophy' is a word bandied about so much it's lost any real meaning.
Like using 'you're being moral' as a supposedly valid criticism or use 'legend', 'national treasure', 'superstar' and 'amazing' to describe a basic favour.
LvG was only clipped because the Glazers had Jose lined up. Informed he was clipped whilst dancing with the cup he'd just won. Good times.
Ineos will more than likely do the same: Wait until a proven successor is available. Obviously not the cup.
I'd imagine they are assessing their options now.
Why did we bother with all this great new 'structure' if the next manager is just going to decide everything again anyway? Ratcliffe could have saved himself a few bob if we're going to carry on as we always have.
I don't disagree with you on ETH, but this is a bad comparison as Birmingham have spent more cash this summer than all the other teams in league one have spent combined over the last two summers! My cat could win promotion with Birmingham with that level of spending, it's like they have constant FM cheat mode on.
Of course we have. But getting 5 consecutive managers wrong in a decade is not down to the managers themselves is it? We've been a badly run club for a long time. There comes a time when their positions are untenable, like the position ETH is in right now. If we sacked them after every run of bad results, we would have ended up with 8 managers in 11 years with the same if not worse results.
Sacking more managers doesn't mean success. Chelsea have gone through 10 managers in 11 years. They've won 2 leagues and a Champions League more than us. But if you look closer -
Mourinho - 2.5 years - 1 PL and EFL Cup
Guus Hiddink - 8 months -
Conte - 2 years - 1 PL and FA Cup
Sarri - 1 year - Europa League
Lampard - 2.5 years
Tuchel - 1.5 years -UCL
Potter - 6 months
Lampard - 3 months
Poch - 1 year
Maresca - ?
Is it at all a surprise that the Chelsea's success was brought by hiring top managers and giving them more than 1 season? The only outlier here is Sarri who got success in his first and only season (but so did Mourinho for United). And on top of that, Tuchel's sacking after winning the UCL led to this massive downfall in the last 2. There is no way can you prove that chopping and changing managers brings success, because every club would be doing that if that were the case.
It’s all well and good buying all the ingredients in the shop, but someone still has to bake the cake well or you’ve spoilt your ingredients
So are you advocating keeping ETH?
Upto a point, I agree but, this summer Birmingham spent 30M quid, the next biggest spender in the league was Peterborough who spent 2M, after that the rest of the league spent a combined 6.2M.
With that kind of advantage any manager should be doing well, I'm not sure Birmingham's success is a good stick to be beating ETH with, especially when there are so many good sticks!
It's the equivalent of ETH spending 9.4 Billion in his first season (15 times more than Chelsea's 630M) if he'd had that kind of money, I think the league would look a bit different now!
Ha! I like your optimism. I think we’d still have issues because of his tactics with midfield non existent as ever
Sneaky.Well you've convinced me!
No it's not, it's the equivalent of ETH spending 658m v.s. Chelsea's 630m
I'll give you the reasons why I wanted him to stay, and why I now want him gone.
To stay:
He had a decent first season, which showed me promise.
Record number of injuries was a very legit excuse to underperform last season. So, he had the benefit of doubt.
The club structure (or lack of it) didn't really help him in any way in the 2 windows.
Beating City in a cup final was no easy feat, so he deserves a pat on the back for that.
So, with the new ownership in place and taking the injuries into consideration - I backed him at the end of last season. And hoping that with a little bit of luck and a proper structure in place, he would be able to turn it around.
To leave:
I wanted to see improvement, but unfortunately he haven't. We've been appalling. He's had a proper structure, a pre-season, 5 new players... which is more than enough to fix the problems with the team. He doesn't have a legit excuse anymore. Nobody expected him to start beating everyone left and right. But we have already had 2 bad results at home which was reminiscent of last season, which means that he clearly has no idea what he's doing and how to improve the team.
Sadly things changed way too quickly in the space of 4 months, which is why the swaying of support seems surprising to you all.
If we're saying the managers performing poorly isn't down to the managers then there's no accountability anymore.
They all could have done so much better. We obviously have rubbish owners but the managers have still had more than enough to created good, competing teams.
There's no point listing them really as we all know but some of the decisons they've made have been absolutely shocking.
That's not hindsight either. Fans knew at the time that managers were making huge mistakes.
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