Erik ten Hag | 2024/25 | Sacked

Erik ten Hag

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Oh, I know. I still see that everywhere. He has to stay even if we get humbled by Porto and Villa. Though I expect us to win one of those two.

I also find it bizarre that people who wanted him to stay after the final have already given up on him. Stand behind your choice!
The worst part is many of those people who wanted him to stay of the final were firmly in the ETH out camp before it. That single game made many do a U-turn on their opinion, and 6 games in most of them have done another U-turn. It's actually quite ridiculous when you think about it.

I'm also sure a draw and a scrappy win over our next two games will shift the poll by a decent amount with more people switching their vote back to keep. It's like long-term memory doesn't exist for a portion of the fanbase. Very reactionary.
 
Emery at Villa, Maresca at Chelsea, Motta at Juve, Slot at Liverpool, even Kompany at Bayern - all doing well (and everyone except for Emery been at their clubs for only few months) after a short period. Not saying they'll all succeed but ten Hag is in his 3rd season and is trying to sell this story of transition. He doesn't believe in it either and I'm sure is waiting to get the compensation fee when he inevitably gets sacked soon.
 
I don’t care what your justifications for that prediction were - I read them at the time and wasn’t convinced by them. And we all know how it went.
I made no prediction was the point
 
Emery at Villa, Maresca at Chelsea, Motta at Juve, Slot at Liverpool, even Kompany at Bayern - all doing well (and everyone except for Emery been at their clubs for only few months) after a short period. Not saying they'll all succeed but ten Hag is in his 3rd season and is trying to sell this story of transition. He doesn't believe in it either and I'm sure is waiting to get the compensation fee when he inevitably gets sacked soon.
I do understand that there is context to Ten Hag situation in the first year. The fact that we are shifting players to clubs like Napoli, Komo, AEK, Girona, Burnley etc, shows that we were not blessed with quality players that any of the top clubs will want. We were even forced to let some of them go for peanuts or even pay them to leave, as nobody would want to take them with a decent fee. He wasn't dealt a good hand roster wise, like Maresca, Kompany or Slot. However, it's Emery that's basically exposing all of Ten Hags excuses.

You can't spin the transition now, it's not even a good excuse for being humiliated by Spurs at home, after spending 600m plus on your own players. I watched a clip earlier from Arsenal's Amazon documentary after they were demolished by City 5-0 and everyone wanted Arteta's head.

Arteta had one on one discussion with Josh Kroenke, in the dinner, where everyone working at Arsenal can see that he has the trust of the owners behind him. Ten Hag on the other hand is a coach who was publicly undermined this summer by the new regime. Two totally different aproaches. One of them turned it around by being backed, and the second one is given till Monday to survive.

He was given time, he was given a free pass on many embarrassing performances, he was backed in the financial constraints of the clubs PSR limits by buying the exact players he wanted. All he had to show for was progress, and we are not seeing it, while almost everyone around us is improving. I had sympathy for him last year due to the sheer amount of injuries in the defence, but not this year. Saddest part is that I can't even convince myself to have an ounce of belief that he can turn this around. Such a grim feeling.
 
I’m sick to the back teeth of the whole ‘process’ thing.

Look where Emery took Villa already. Ange immediately got Spurs doing something different. Slot has gone straight in at Liverpool. Tuchel had an immediate impact at Chelsea.

Hell, even watching Birmingham against Wrexham the other night, they’ve apparantly signed about 20 new players and a new coach over the summer and have gone from relegation playing kick and rush to the highest average possession in the entire football league over 8 weeks in the summer yet we are sold this snake oil about needing 46 transfer windows and years of coaching to get us to have half a semblance of a decent football side.

How can anyone still buy this shite?
Agreed. I'm fine with a process that goes somewhere but after 2 years there should be signs of progress and there isn't.
 
Emery at Villa, Maresca at Chelsea, Motta at Juve, Slot at Liverpool, even Kompany at Bayern - all doing well (and everyone except for Emery been at their clubs for only few months) after a short period. Not saying they'll all succeed but ten Hag is in his 3rd season and is trying to sell this story of transition. He doesn't believe in it either and I'm sure is waiting to get the compensation fee when he inevitably gets sacked soon.
The things he was saying last year about he was "a winner" and he'd win things wherever he goes next made me think he was already pitching himself for the next job. He must have thought that he was finished at United but for a little while longer, he's still here.
 
Watching United has lowered my standards so much that every team I watch seem impressive.

Put 6 passes together in opposition half - wow, haven't seen Utd do that often
Control possesion despite high press - wow, they must have players that are way better than us technically
Defend as a unit with minimal spaces - wow, must be very well organised

This is after watching likes of Lille, Villa, Benfica(excellent today vs Atletico)
 
It’s only 6 games into league season and surely they should be able to see that we only lost to Liverpool because our forwards could not convert - as already pointed out by someone in this thread xG was equal - and only lost to Spurs because of Bruno’s undeserved red card. Should have also beaten Brighton if not for offside, and do I even need to remind how sublime we were in those 45 minutes at Palace?
Yeah this is true. We just need to be patient. Also last seasons poor league form was clearly due to injuries, bad luck & no structure above him. Once Martinez was back for the final, our tactics all fell into place.
 
I guess we are struck with him for the foreseeable future. INEOS won't accept their mistake and will let him carry on. It'd be in our best interest if he can turn this around. I don't think he is capable of doing it in the league but hopefully we'll do reasonably well in Europa as it already looks like that's our best shot at CL football next season. Which we desperately need both for prestige and monetary reasons.
 
I guess we are struck with him for the foreseeable future. INEOS won't accept their mistake and will let him carry on. It'd be in our best interest if he can turn this around. I don't think he is capable of doing it in the league but hopefully we'll do reasonably well in Europa as it already looks like that's our best shot at CL football next season. Which we desperately need both for prestige and monetary reasons.

Isn’t he at one win in our last nine European games? Next to no chance we’re doing well in Europa under him.
 
Whilst I'm not advocating the club being run like Chelsea, the idea that sticking with managers for the sake of it when they've proved they're not good enough some how makes us a better run club is bizarre, and now seemingly unique to some United fans.

Managers deserve time. After enough time, doing the same things again and again and expecting a different outcome is madness. Often managers who get a chance at a top club having managed at a level down are just not good enough to be amongst the very elite in the game. No shame in it, for them or the club - it's sensible to move on.

No other top club - those winning titles and enjoying success, would have stuck with him this far. The chaos at the club saved him because there was a chance that the problems were a symptom of that, rather than him being the cause. I now personally think he is, mostly, the cause.
The question is,,,

Managers deserve time, but time to do what?

Some club is survival, others is European places, others is winning titles, others is remaining in the PL

So, for us should be Why do we need a Manager.. The manager is supposed to achieve what?

Then is that aspirations feasible with current manager? Then you would know if giving the manager time is a correct decision
 
The things he was saying last year about he was "a winner" and he'd win things wherever he goes next made me think he was already pitching himself for the next job. He must have thought that he was finished at United but for a little while longer, he's still here.

Yeah you could well be right about that
 
We honestly cannot be that bad with this set of players. Just keep it simple and have a coherent approach to the game. Any other incoming manager is going to look like a godsend. But it may not be because they are actually good. Sigh.
 
ETH has won trophies every single season for 8 consecutive seasons.

This put him as Top 10 Greatest manager of all time! (based on trophies won via consecutive seasons)
 
It seems so strange to me that people call him a good cup manager when he's been so bad in the European cups. I mean sure, he won the domestic cups but not qualifying from that CL group we had and not winning the Europa cannot be dismissed.
 
Emery at Villa, Maresca at Chelsea, Motta at Juve, Slot at Liverpool, even Kompany at Bayern - all doing well (and everyone except for Emery been at their clubs for only few months) after a short period. Not saying they'll all succeed but ten Hag is in his 3rd season and is trying to sell this story of transition. He doesn't believe in it either and I'm sure is waiting to get the compensation fee when he inevitably gets sacked soon.
Ironically Ten Hag did pretty well in his first season and so did Ole for the first 12 games of his stint. Let's not get carried away, and see how this list of managers performs at the end of the season.

It seems so strange to me that people call him a good cup manager when he's been so bad in the European cups. I mean sure, he won the domestic cups but not qualifying from that CL group we had and not winning the Europa cannot be dismissed.

Not sure what exactly happened, but in his first season we looked pretty decent. Hell, we even knocked out Barcelona and had Sevilla pinned down in EL(which is their competition) until De Gea, Malacia and Maguire collectively decided to gift them 5 goals which ended our run in Europe. Ever since then we've been shit.

Personally I blamed ETH's stubborness. He played a more progressive version of Ole ball. Our issue started when he was trying to implement this possesion style. Ever since then it looks that any team can slaughter us at will. We just need to be more compact and for Erik to be less stubborn, but at this point I'm not holding my breath.
 
Oh, pages and pages ago as part of a different debate about a different thing with different people!? Jeez, you are desperate.

I have specifically said I think those running the club are either incompetent or dithering. Try engaging with the point actually being made for once.

And you actually said you’d give him two more games. And I thought that was such a ridiculous stance to take after the Spurs humiliation that I took the piss out of you and said you must be a supporter of another team on a wind up. I stand by that.
Its not different. It was the exact same topic of whether he should be sacked straight after spurs


You said that if I didn't want to sack him straight after spurs I must support a rival. The decision makers are doing the same thing.

Be consistent or pipe down.
 
Blimey, I'm so sick of hearing his voice, his excuses, the word 'process', the gloating. How do people like this man?
Remember when LVG used to say “philosophy” all the time too?

ETH is like LVG with the charisma sucked out. And LVG (as boring as they were) had the whole te following his orders

Pop his ego - time to go
 
ETH has won trophies every single season for 8 consecutive seasons.

This put him as Top 10 Greatest manager of all time! (based on trophies won via consecutive seasons)

Except he hasn't, he's won trophies in the last 4 seasons. And the double in Holland in 2019.
 
The question is,,,

Managers deserve time, but time to do what?

Some club is survival, others is European places, others is winning titles, others is remaining in the PL

So, for us should be Why do we need a Manager.. The manager is supposed to achieve what?

Then is that aspirations feasible with current manager? Then you would know if giving the manager time is a correct decision

Firstly and in my opinion, relatively early following an appointment, a team should have some kind of identity and there should be some idea of what system they are trying to employ.

Progress is then pretty easy to measure - are you winning games and where did you finish in the league at the end of the season. Progress isn't necessarily linear, but over time is easy to see in a game where wins mean points and league position. There is no better test than a league season.
 
Yes.

@stevoc @Robbie Boy @Sarni @Yagami as you can see, there's a good number of our fans who still just don't get it. These are the guys who need to see this through for the penny to drop.
Not at all. Timing is important. But what is enough time for a manager? How much did the previous ones get? Moyes (10 months), LvG (2 years), Mourinho (2.5 years), Ole (3 years), ETH (2 year+ and counting). You are saying that all these managers should have been sacked earlier than they were, which makes no sense. It takes time to build a winning team and 2 years is a fair enough time to see where the team is going. No other club has had the success by chopping and changing managers every season (except Chelsea for a few years). We've sacked the previous 4 (maybe ETH to be added to the list soon), and still haven't achieved anything of note. Having more managers wouldn't necessarily mean success.
 
I think the main reason we've been so bad for so long are the total resets we've done after each manager which have taken around 3 years each.
Hopefully that's not going to happen again with the new structure but how they've handled Erik doesn't fill me with the confidence I had when they first came in.

I don't know. There are a lot of players in that squad the new manager in mightn't fancy at all and might want out the door. Cue another "reset" and on and on it goes.
 
Remember when LVG used to say “philosophy” all the time too?

ETH is like LVG with the charisma sucked out. And LVG (as boring as they were) had the whole te following his orders

Pop his ego - time to go
'Philosophy' is a word bandied about so much it's lost any real meaning.

Like using 'you're being moral' as a supposedly valid criticism or use 'legend', 'national treasure', 'superstar' and 'amazing' to describe a basic favour.

LvG was only clipped because the Glazers had Jose lined up. Informed he was clipped whilst dancing with the cup he'd just won. Good times.

Ineos will more than likely do the same: Wait until a proven successor is available. Obviously not the cup.

I'd imagine they are assessing their options now.
 
I don't know. There are a lot of players in that squad the new manager in mightn't fancy at all and might want out the door. Cue another "reset" and on and on it goes.
Why did we bother with all this great new 'structure' if the next manager is just going to decide everything again anyway? Ratcliffe could have saved himself a few bob if we're going to carry on as we always have.
 
Hell, even watching Birmingham against Wrexham the other night, they’ve apparantly signed about 20 new players and a new coach over the summer and have gone from relegation playing kick and rush to the highest average possession in the entire football league over 8 weeks in the summer yet we are sold this snake oil about needing 46 transfer windows and years of coaching to get us to have half a semblance of a decent football side.
I don't disagree with you on ETH, but this is a bad comparison as Birmingham have spent more cash this summer than all the other teams in league one have spent combined over the last two summers! My cat could win promotion with Birmingham with that level of spending, it's like they have constant FM cheat mode on.
 
In the same period how many player transfers have we got wrong?

With that sizeable number in mind why isn't it feasible we've got just 5 managerial appointments wrong?
Of course we have. But getting 5 consecutive managers wrong in a decade is not down to the managers themselves is it? We've been a badly run club for a long time. There comes a time when their positions are untenable, like the position ETH is in right now. If we sacked them after every run of bad results, we would have ended up with 8 managers in 11 years with the same if not worse results.

Chelsea's frequent sacking of managers has led to more success than we've had in the last 10 years, has it not? We've always given managers far too much time.
Sacking more managers doesn't mean success. Chelsea have gone through 10 managers in 11 years. They've won 2 leagues and a Champions League more than us. But if you look closer -
Mourinho - 2.5 years - 1 PL and EFL Cup
Guus Hiddink - 8 months -
Conte - 2 years - 1 PL and FA Cup
Sarri - 1 year - Europa League
Lampard - 2.5 years
Tuchel - 1.5 years -UCL
Potter - 6 months
Lampard - 3 months
Poch - 1 year
Maresca - ?
Is it at all a surprise that the Chelsea's success was brought by hiring top managers and giving them more than 1 season? The only outlier here is Sarri who got success in his first and only season (but so did Mourinho for United). And on top of that, Tuchel's sacking after winning the UCL led to this massive downfall in the last 2. There is no way can you prove that chopping and changing managers brings success, because every club would be doing that if that were the case.
 
I don't disagree with you on ETH, but this is a bad comparison as Birmingham have spent more cash this summer than all the other teams in league one have spent combined over the last two summers! My cat could win promotion with Birmingham with that level of spending, it's like they have constant FM cheat mode on.
It’s all well and good buying all the ingredients in the shop, but someone still has to bake the cake well or you’ve spoilt your ingredients
 
Of course we have. But getting 5 consecutive managers wrong in a decade is not down to the managers themselves is it? We've been a badly run club for a long time. There comes a time when their positions are untenable, like the position ETH is in right now. If we sacked them after every run of bad results, we would have ended up with 8 managers in 11 years with the same if not worse results.


Sacking more managers doesn't mean success. Chelsea have gone through 10 managers in 11 years. They've won 2 leagues and a Champions League more than us. But if you look closer -
Mourinho - 2.5 years - 1 PL and EFL Cup
Guus Hiddink - 8 months -
Conte - 2 years - 1 PL and FA Cup
Sarri - 1 year - Europa League
Lampard - 2.5 years
Tuchel - 1.5 years -UCL
Potter - 6 months
Lampard - 3 months
Poch - 1 year
Maresca - ?
Is it at all a surprise that the Chelsea's success was brought by hiring top managers and giving them more than 1 season? The only outlier here is Sarri who got success in his first and only season (but so did Mourinho for United). And on top of that, Tuchel's sacking after winning the UCL led to this massive downfall in the last 2. There is no way can you prove that chopping and changing managers brings success, because every club would be doing that if that were the case.
So are you advocating keeping ETH?
 
It’s all well and good buying all the ingredients in the shop, but someone still has to bake the cake well or you’ve spoilt your ingredients
Upto a point, I agree but, this summer Birmingham spent 30M quid, the next biggest spender in the league was Peterborough who spent 2M, after that the rest of the league spent a combined 6.2M.

With that kind of advantage any manager should be doing well, I'm not sure Birmingham's success is a good stick to be beating ETH with, especially when there are so many good sticks!

It's the equivalent of ETH spending 9.4 Billion in his first season (15 times more than Chelsea's 630M) if he'd had that kind of money, I think the league would look a bit different now!
 
Upto a point, I agree but, this summer Birmingham spent 30M quid, the next biggest spender in the league was Peterborough who spent 2M, after that the rest of the league spent a combined 6.2M.

With that kind of advantage any manager should be doing well, I'm not sure Birmingham's success is a good stick to be beating ETH with, especially when there are so many good sticks!

It's the equivalent of ETH spending 9.4 Billion in his first season (15 times more than Chelsea's 630M) if he'd had that kind of money, I think the league would look a bit different now!
Ha! I like your optimism. I think we’d still have issues because of his tactics with midfield non existent as ever
 
Of course we have. But getting 5 consecutive managers wrong in a decade is not down to the managers themselves is it? We've been a badly run club for a long time. There comes a time when their positions are untenable, like the position ETH is in right now. If we sacked them after every run of bad results, we would have ended up with 8 managers in 11 years with the same if not worse results.


Sacking more managers doesn't mean success. Chelsea have gone through 10 managers in 11 years. They've won 2 leagues and a Champions League more than us. But if you look closer -
Mourinho - 2.5 years - 1 PL and EFL Cup
Guus Hiddink - 8 months -
Conte - 2 years - 1 PL and FA Cup
Sarri - 1 year - Europa League
Lampard - 2.5 years
Tuchel - 1.5 years -UCL
Potter - 6 months
Lampard - 3 months
Poch - 1 year
Maresca - ?
Is it at all a surprise that the Chelsea's success was brought by hiring top managers and giving them more than 1 season? The only outlier here is Sarri who got success in his first and only season (but so did Mourinho for United). And on top of that, Tuchel's sacking after winning the UCL led to this massive downfall in the last 2. There is no way can you prove that chopping and changing managers brings success, because every club would be doing that if that were the case.
:lol: Sneaky.
 
Upto a point, I agree but, this summer Birmingham spent 30M quid, the next biggest spender in the league was Peterborough who spent 2M, after that the rest of the league spent a combined 6.2M.

With that kind of advantage any manager should be doing well, I'm not sure Birmingham's success is a good stick to be beating ETH with, especially when there are so many good sticks!

It's the equivalent of ETH spending 9.4 Billion in his first season (15 times more than Chelsea's 630M) if he'd had that kind of money, I think the league would look a bit different now!
No it's not, it's the equivalent of ETH spending 658m v.s. Chelsea's 630m
 
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