Erik ten Hag | 2024/25 | Sacked

[Zumbi]

True to form, you have assumed I did not taken any "logistical barriers" into account. A genuinely terrible take.

You basically asked me what I'd do with Ten Hag if I were Sir Jim Ratcliffe, and then said I support a rival team because you didn't like the answer. Now you're claiming its a different situation when the owners are literally taking the same approach I have.

The hypocrisy is actually quite funny at this stage.

You are an anonymous poster on an internet forum who, speaking of genuinely terrible takes, thinks a goalless half against Palace is encouraging.

Jim Radcliffe spent $1.65 billion investing in the club.

I know you think a lot of yourself VP, but taking the piss out of you for being a troll isn’t actually in the same ballpark as me discussing what our actual, real life owners are doing.

Do you understand that signing up to an Internet forum and spending over a billion pounds on a club are slightly different barriers to entry? Can you understand why I don’t think JR was a rival fan on a wind up when he made that investment decision?

 

[Pexbo]

I can’t work out if the Van Nistelrooy links are coming from:

A) Van Nistelrooy
B) United SLT
C) Press are putting 2+2 together

 

[Blood Mage]

There are apparently get-out clauses in Erik's contract

So Ineos aren't totally brainless then, good. He should have gone after the FA Cup final though.

 

[VP89]

You are an anonymous poster on an internet forum who, speaking of genuinely terrible takes, thinks a goalless half against Palace is encouraging.

Jim Radcliffe spent $1.65 billion investing in the club.

I know you think a lot of yourself VP, but taking the piss out of you for being a troll isn’t actually in the same ballpark as me discussing what our actual, real life owners are doing.

Do you understand that signing up to an Internet forum and spending over a billion pounds on a club are slightly different barriers to entry? Can you understand why I don’t think JR was a rival fan on a wind up when he made that investment decision?

You've done a lot of name calling and tried to call out 'unpopular' takes but seem to have no leg to stand on when well respected people share similar views. Be it the decision makers not sacking ten hag just yet, or the view that palace performance was encouraging which was shared also by Andy Mitten and match going fans at the stadium. These people aren't trolls, but it's easy for you to throw the name to me because you evidently have no other way to formulate a reasonable stance on the other side.

Im probably wrong in thinking Ten Hag needed more time, and as I've said before everyone has their own patience for managers. I don't think those giving managers longer are any less trolls than those who don't give enough patience. That's the beauty of the game, there's different ways to approach your support as long as we agree in wanting the best for the club.

But you definitely showed true form by asking what I'd do as an owner, citing that as an opposition supporter and then assuming that there's rational thought if decision makers are doing the same thing. Me being anonymous has nothing to do with it. You're just desperately trying to rationalise your own hypocrisy.

I hope your logic and reason improves with your time in the caf.

 

[romufc]

Unless fan sentiment is a significant factor on whether a manager is sacked or not, and by that I mean the weight and momentum of snowballing negative sentiment, I don't really get how the outcome of the next game or two games decides the fate of a manager. We're talking about millions to get rid of a manager, then a process of finding another manager, potentially hundreds of millions in transfers that suit that other manager, and so on.

Surely whatever the decision is, there is more weight to the 123 games we've played under ETH than the next 2 games.

Ofcourse fan sentiment plays a part in managerial sacking and hiring. If the fans wanted him gone at the end of the last season and the atmosphere was toxic at OT, he would have gone.

He is under massive pressure because of not just results, the reaction of fans post Spurs too, there has definitely been a shift where its enough is enough.

In theory, yes you are right, the 123 games should take more weight but context matters. I want him sacked as much as the next person but you dont conduct a 2 week review and then sack a manager after 7 games based on previous games.

They have conducted the 100 odd game review in June, they wanted to see how he is under a new structure, his team and fully fit squad.

So its pointless keep going on about the last 2 years, he is purely judged on how he does this season. The answer is not good, he has 2 streaky wins in 6 PL games with -3 GD.

 

[VeryPrecious89]

I was at the Spurs game. First one this season and it might be the only one.

I was always optimistic but I left the stadium thinking, am I being delusional? Apart from Onana, I couldn't see any other positives whatsoever. Spurs scored early and all the United players couldn't get going at all. They were nervous.

It was getting chilly, it was raining, dark and depressing. That pretty much sums up where we are at.

I have been at plenty of games when we lost. You travel and go to a match, you can't always expect a win. That's fine. We got a tour bus from Ireland. We left 4am Sunday to get the boat in Dublin from my home place. We didn't get back until 9:45am Monday morning. The highlight of the trip was Nandos in the Trafford centre afterwards.

To travel for that much time and to see that quality of Football, it was the only time I felt I needed a refund. I was shocked by how bad we were.

Going to a game or season is my happy time, it's my time away from my business and work and it's my release but Christ, that was a shocking attempt of football. Genuinely, a League of Ireland game would have been more entertaining.

The highlight of the trip was Nandos

 

[romufc]

I can’t work out if the Van Nistelrooy links are coming from:

A) Van Nistelrooy
B) United SLT
C) Press are putting 2+2 together

Really? I mean these links were there from the day he took the job.

So many people were saying they have him so he can take over when EtH gets sacked. Most United fans knew, Ten Hag wont last till christmas.

 

[croadyman]

Uh-oh, Erik’s in trouble
Tottenham just won and it's burst his bubble
Uh-oh, Erik’s in trouble
Cab for Ten Hag, quick, march, on the double

He’s been here two years and it’s never really clicked
He keeps on trying, but we always get dicked
The final was great, yeah, City got slammed
But the league’s gone to shite and he’s gonna get canned

Uh-oh, Erik’s in trouble
Tottenham just won and it's burst his bubble
Uh-oh, Erik’s in trouble
Cab for Ten Hag, quick, march, on the double

He’s spent a lot of money, but it doesn’t seem to work
We play Bruno all the time and he acts like a jerk
We’ve got Rashers on the wing and he’s looking really tired
But he won’t take him off, so he’s gonna get, gonna get, gonna get…

Uh-oh, Erik’s in trouble
…

That's actually well put together

 

[ColvaleGoa]

Ready for bloodbath tonight....given that Aston villa result is foregone!

 

[Chairman Steve]

There are apparently get-out clauses in Erik's contract

This makes more sense than that reported £17m. Who’s to say it’s much less based on something like a win ratio over a specific part of the season or a league position at a certain point?

 

[VP89]

Really? I mean these links were there from the day he took the job.

So many people were saying they have him so he can take over when EtH gets sacked. Most United fans knew, Ten Hag wont last till christmas.

Ben Jacobs is quite poor in my opinion, he's force fitted a Southgate narrative despite it being shut down by Ornstein and others.

Whitwell's take is interesting but I don't think he has any firm information. He's reading sentiment it seems.

 

[Zumbi]

You've done a lot of name calling and tried to call out unpopular takes but seem to have no leg to stand on when well respected people share similar views. Be it the decision makers not sacking ten hag just yet, or the view that palace performance was encouraging which was shared also by Andy Mitten and match going fans at the stadium. These people aren't trolls, but it's easy for you to throw the name to me because you evidently have no other way to formulate a reasonable stance on the other side.

Im probably wrong in thinking Ten Hag needed more time, and as I've said before everyone has their own patience for managers. I don't think those giving managers longer are any less trolls than those who don't give enough patience. That's the beauty of the game, there's different ways to approach your support as long as we agree in wanting the best for the club.

But you definitely showed true form by asking what I'd do as an owner, citing that as an opposition supporter and then assuming that there's rational thought if decision makers are doing the same thing. Me being anonymous has nothing to do with it. You're just desperately trying to rationalise your own hypocrisy.

I hope your logic and reason improves with your time in the caf.

I know I have to ask you this almost every time, but reread what I actually wrote instead of making things up to argue against.

I never once assumed there was rational thought behind the decision makers delaying - I was specifically making the opposite argument. I said i couldn’t see any reasonable rationale for delaying given how long Ten Hag had been on the verge of the sack for, and that I think they’re incompetent or dithering in a manner which is damaging to the club.

The reason I suggested you might be on a wind up and not others, is because you consistently strawman, arguing in bad faith and in a dishonest manner. I’ve called you out for that numerous times in the past but it seems to be ingrained in your approach.

 

[Sarni]

Fair enough if you ask me, those jokers pulling on that famous shirt need to put a shift in for a start and show some pride in their own performances.

These fecking players are letting him down so badly. They already got Moyes, van Gaal, Mourinho and now they are trying to do the same to Erik simply because he’s asking too much from them.

We should do this before we even start questioning his position:

- Give him the money to overhaul the squad, prioritizing his former players that he knows he can trust. I would say £550m over 3 years
- Allow him to sell these fecking players so they don’t stink up the place anymore
- Let him promote the best of our promising crop of youngsters

Once all of this is done and he can field a team where 7-8 players are of his own choice, only then we can judge him.

 

[Pexbo]

Really? I mean these links were there from the day he took the job.

So many people were saying they have him so he can take over when EtH gets sacked. Most United fans knew, Ten Hag wont last till christmas.

“Really” what?

You haven’t answered my question. You might think you know the answer but it’s not a fact.

 

[croadyman]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...alace-Mason-Greenwood-SAMI-MOKBEL-COLUMN.html



article seems to be behind paywall - so I can't confirm

I'm suspecting/speculating a brief from EtH's camp

This is why I was hoping he would take both of these games this week, then could get a deal in place with permanent candidate during break. Would definitely be concerned about him being in charge until May.

 

[pocco]

I can’t work out if the Van Nistelrooy links are coming from:

A) Van Nistelrooy
B) United SLT
C) Press are putting 2+2 together

It seems to be growing legs right now. It's thrown in along with lines about INEOS being calm about the situation etc, so almost feels like a brief from them/the club, and now they're trying to sell us on RVN. Or if not it's the press. I doubt RVN is going out of his way to push for the job whilst he's Ten Hag's assistant, but you never know. If I was to guess, it would be B. Like I said, it feels almost like they're trying to sell us on him.

 

[Berbaclass]

That Laurie article to me reads that they've decided to sack him after Sunday.

 

[croadyman]

This makes more sense than that reported £17m. Who’s to say it’s much less based on something like a win ratio over a specific part of the season or a league position at a certain point?

Shame it's not coming from better source though

 

[Pexbo]

It seems to be growing legs right now. It's thrown in along with lines about INEOS being calm about the situation etc, so almost feels like a brief from them/the club, and now they're trying to sell us on RVN. Or if not it's the press. I doubt RVN is going out of his way to push for the job whilst he's Ten Hag's assistant, but you never know. If I was to guess, it would be B. Like I said, it feels almost like they're trying to sell us on him.

My guess is more towards C than B.


It might have been Ruud’s intention when he joined but I doubt it was discussed and I expect it was a bit of a gamble on his part.

 

[Doracle]

The manager can be blamed for a lot of things but showing some pride to themselves is something the players need to do as a minimum. A lot has changed behind the scenes and it's not only down to Ten Hag. All these new performances coaches etc... have a lot to answer for.

Unfortunately, I don't see how Ten Hag will sort out this mess. Worse yet, I don't know who can.

8 of that team were players that he has purchased/brought through though. Of the others, one he made captain. I don’t think it can be any excuse for ETH if his own players aren’t showing effort. It’s yet another mark against him.

 

[croadyman]

That Laurie article to me reads that they've decided to sack him after Sunday.

Yeah true, however hope we are looking at permanent options to get now not just sticking Ruud as interim

 

[Doracle]

So Ineos aren't totally brainless then, good. He should have gone after the FA Cup final though.

Probably the usual clause that we can sack once we can no longer achieve champions league. Might be waiting a while if that’s the case. There’s no chance we added anything new into his latest extension, so this will be based on the original contract pre Ineos.

 

[DJ_21]

This is why I was hoping he would take both of these games this week, then could get a deal in place with permanent candidate during break. Would definitely be concerned about him being in charge until May.

Who would you get that’s available to start straight away?

 

[Berbaclass]

Yeah true, however hope we are looking at permanent options to get now not just sticking Ruud as interim

I would personally like to see what Ruud has got to be honest. Maybe that is nostalgia talking though.

I did watch his PSV side a number of times and they played good stuff.

 

[pocco]

My guess is more towards C than B.


It might have been Ruud’s intention when he joined but I doubt it was discussed and I expect it was a bit of a gamble on his part.

Yeah maybe C. But then I don't see what they achieve by talking about how calm INEOS are. To wind some fans up? To make INEOS look like they've got it all under control?

I'm going to convince myself it's B and that they are actually planning on putting an end to ETH though. But then I'll be hoping RVN is a stop gap until we bring in the permanent option.

 

[Doracle]

Well if start to look at expected goals and expected points, it shows even more clearly how bad we are under EtH (much worse than under other managers post-Fergie who got comparable amount of time).

Under LVG we were 4th and 8th on expected points in his two full seasons.

Under Jose we were 4th and 6th.

Under Ole we were 4th and 4th.

Under EtH we were 6th on expected points in his first season (but I bet you never called the fact that we finished 3rd “unsustainable” because of that). We were 15th (!) in his second season. We are 10th now.

That’s dire isn’t it? Not once higher than 4th on expected position since SAF and entirely reliant on individual brilliance to exceed our xg. Does show how Ole did a comparatively decent job over his two seasons - when you consider we had long cup runs in virtually every competition under him as well.

 

[VeryPrecious89]

That's actually well put together

Cheers. Apologies to Shampoo and whoever started it off in the match thread

 

[OverratedOpinion]

Yeh, I always feel like while they were chopping and changing managers, they always had a strong base of quality, continental players.
Our recruitment in the same period has been a shambles.

Hmm I think sometimes they have had a better squad, sometimes we have. They have had a a couple of top class coaches who were at least somewhere close to their best. They also used up the broke the remnants of the only genuinely top class manager we have had in that time.

 

[romufc]

“Really” what?

You haven’t answered my question. You might think you know the answer but it’s not a fact.

I didn't say I know the answer, but the facts are there for all of us to see.

1. We hired a coach who used to be a manager and had managerial offers
2. A coach that was a legend at the club.

Now, when you hire a coach that is the above, when most of the fans, media etc.. expect Ten Hag to be sacked this season, I dont think there is many people who thought he will complete the season, so it is logical to think that the succession plan would be RVN for the short term at least because what that will do is:

1. Bring the feel good factor - ala Ole did as interim
2. Give RVN a managerial chance

I hope your question is now answered.

 

[CraftySoAndSo]

I would personally like to see what Ruud has got to be honest. Maybe that is nostalgia talking though.

I did watch his PSV side a number of times and they played good stuff.

I think it's easier to play good football in the Dutch league when there's such a big quality gap between the top sides and everyone else. Look at the football Ten Hag played at Ajax and yet hasn't been able to replicate that here.

Plus factor in that Bosz who replaced RVN at PSV broke the league points record in his first season last year, also were a few goals away from breaking the goal record as well I believe.

 

[croadyman]

Who would you get that’s available to start straight away?

Tuchel or Allegri would be obvious choices, not against a Frank or Silva because interested to see if they could make that step up

 

[DJ_21]

Tuchel or Allegri would be obvious choices, not against a Frank or Silva because interested to see if they could make that step up

I’d say no to allegri. We want to stay well clear of the boring football. we’d look like idiots if we got Tuchel in after it didn’t work out in the summer and we chose to stick with ETH over him. The other 2 would be gambles and I’d say they’d both jump at the chance mid season to come here and get half a season as a free pass.

 

[Pexbo]

I didn't say I know the answer, but the facts are there for all of us to see.

1. We hired a coach who used to be a manager and had managerial offers
2. A coach that was a legend at the club.

Now, when you hire a coach that is the above, when most of the fans, media etc.. expect Ten Hag to be sacked this season, I dont think there is many people who thought he will complete the season, so it is logical to think that the succession plan would be RVN for the short term at least because what that will do is:

1. Bring the feel good factor - ala Ole did as interim
2. Give RVN a managerial chance

I hope your question is now answered.

Read my post before replying ffs

 

[VP89]

I know I have to ask you this almost every time, but reread what I actually wrote instead of making things up to argue against.

I never once assumed there was rational thought behind the decision makers delaying - I was specifically making the opposite argument. I said i couldn’t see any reasonable rationale for delaying given how long Ten Hag had been on the verge of the sack for, and that I think they’re incompetent or dithering in a manner which is damaging to the club.

The reason I suggested you might be on a wind up and not others, is because you consistently strawman, arguing in bad faith and in a dishonest manner. I’ve called you out for that numerous times in the past but it seems to be ingrained in your approach.

It's ironic you've asked me to re-read when you seem to have overlooked my previous post.
It can be illustrated by one example - you pointed to a post where I said the Palace game was encouraging as some sort of 'excuse' for the manager, and doubled down upaon it in your posts today.
This was an example post of yours to help build a case that I must be on some wind up. The sentiment I had about Palace is shared by match going fans and also by well respected journalists/life long fans such as Andy Mitten. You don't have to agree with their views but you have absolutely no legs to stand on to suggest they are on a wind up.

You don't just disagree with my views, because I'm not foaming at the mouth with distain toward Ten Hag you think I must be on a wind up. I've said that he's on his last chance saloon, he's on the verge of a sack and other sentiments. But because I said as SJR I wouldnt sack just yet unless he didnt win the next 2 (and I was thinking about operational issues here) you thought I was some sort of opposition fan. It's laughable because thats whats happening and in your own words you think they may have operational reason to

 

[George The Best]

So Ineos aren't totally brainless then, good. He should have gone after the FA Cup final though.

Can’t see this has anything to do with Ineos. All that’s happened is that the extension to his existing (pre-Ineos) contract has been triggered. Not sure if the source of this report is reliable either.

 

[Dans]

ETH is mad.

 

[croadyman]

Yeah maybe C. But then I don't see what they achieve by talking about how calm INEOS are. To wind some fans up? To make INEOS look like they've got it all under control?

I'm going to convince myself it's B and that they are actually planning on putting an end to ETH though. But then I'll be hoping RVN is a stop gap until we bring in the permanent option.

How long would you accept a stopgap for?

 

[romufc]

Can’t see this has anything to do with Ineos. All that’s happened is that the extension to his existing (pre-Ineos) contract has been triggered. Not sure if the source of this report is reliable either.

Exactly, the fact that they didn't give him a new contract shows they weren't really convinced by him. It is time to make a change, its gone on too long, its not going to change. We will probably have a reaction tonight and play well for 20 mins and then blame "pathetic" mistakes or not being clinical enough, then go and get hammered at Villa park.

 

[croadyman]

I’d say no to allegri. We want to stay well clear of the boring football. we’d look like idiots if we got Tuchel in after it didn’t work out in the summer and we chose to stick with ETH over him. The other 2 would be gambles and I’d say they’d both jump at the chance mid season to come here and get half a season as a free pass.

I would be happy to go back for him, however IF we could get Inzaghi/Amorim in summer then prepared to accept an interim appointment

 

[Leftback99]

Absolutely no one would have wanted RVN n charge in May when Ten Hag should have been sacked. Would be a terrible idea.