Erik ten Hag | 2024/25 | Sacked

[NewGlory]

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5809797/2024/10/01/ten-hag-benni-mccarthy-manchester-united/

“Tactically, I feel that Erik is at the top. He lacks a bit of that fire, that passion. That’s where we differ, him and I.”

McCarthy is so full of shit. First of all Erik is definitely not at the top tactically, he has made ton of tactical problems during his tenure here, including the ones that were so obviously bad - most fans could see them, and it's shocking a top manager could not.

Also, Erik definitely has very little charism, if any, but professional football players should not require their manager to have charisma, to motivate them, for feck's sake. Lack of charisma is more of a problem with media and fans, players need coaching. if they need to be motivated they are in the wrong place anyway. Not to mention, they have Ruud with plenty of charisma, now, but that has not changed their shitty performances. Duh!

 

[Red Star One]

PL head to head record

Pep:
4 games
1 win
3 losses
-7 GD

Klopp:
4 games
1 win
2 draws
1 loss
-6 GD

Arteta:
4 games
1 win
3 losses
-2 GD

Emery:
4 games
3 wins
1 loss
+2 GD

Ange:
3 games
1 draw
2 losses
-5 GD

Howe:
4 games
1 win
1 draw
2 losses
-2 GD

Moyes:
4 games
2 wins
2 losses
+1 GD

Poch:
2 games
1 win
1 loss
0 GD

Iraola
2 games
1 draw
1 loss
-3 GD

De Zerbri:
3 games
1 win
2 losses
-1 GD

Frank:
4 games
2 wins
1 draw
1 loss
-2 GD

Slot:
1 game
1 loss
-3 GD

Hürzeler:
1 game
1 loss
-1 GD

Conte:
1 game
1 win
+2 GD

Potter:
2 games
1 draw
1 loss
-1 GD

Domestic cups h2H record

Howe:
2 games
1 win
1 loss
-1 GD

Emery:
1 game
1 win
+2 GD

Moyes:
1 game
1 win
+2 GD

De Zerbri:
1 game
1 draw
0 GD

Pep:
3 games
1 win
1 draw
1 loss
0 GD

Klopp:
1 game
1 win
+1 GD

European h2h record

Xavi:
2 games
1 win
1 draw
+1 GD

Tuchel:
2 games
2 losses
-2 GD

55 games
20 wins
10 draws
25 losses
-25 GD
36.36% win rate
45.45% loss rate

He’s also 1 draw 1 loss in two games against Glasner. Incredibly abysmal record.

At least he owned Emery so far 4 wins in 5. Makes the tie on the weekend even spicier

 

[Adisa]

Hope we get it over quickly and not ruin another season with slow painful speculation. I wanted him to stay but he's cooked.

 

[Sarni]

I’m ashamed to admit it but there’s a small part of me that wants to get smashed by Porto tomorrow. If only because I fear if we scrape results the next two games we’ll be doing this song and dance of “he might get sacked or might stay on” all year as our season goes down the toilet and we are left cutting ties in Feb/March when it’s obvious every goal we had is unachievable.

Because I also 100% believe an interim can get this team really close to top 4 and playing better stuff. It wouldn’t be hard to improve.

Nothing strange about it. The last thing we need is a fluke win, and I’m at a point where he could not do anything anymore to convince me he’s the right man for the job.

 

[red_de_pologne]

Nothing strange about it. The last thing we need is a fluke win, and I’m at a point where he could not do anything anymore to convince me he’s the right man for the job.

We need a win to still have chance in Europa, regardless of who the manager will be. I think we beat Porto, lose to Villa and he's gone on Monday.

 

[Sarni]

We need a win to still have chance in Europa, regardless of who the manager will be. I think we beat Porto, lose to Villa and he's gone on Monday.

Yeah, I doubt it. We wouldn’t be giving him those two games to save his job and then fire him after winning one of them.

To be fair I think he won’t go even if we lost both these games 4-0.

 

[Yakuza_devils]

EL is the best hope for us to get CL next season. PL is gone. Hope ETH doesn't cock up the EL too. We need to win EL, it's our only hope.

 

[slyadams]

So, after having gone through 5 Managers in the last 11 years (averaging 2 seasons per manager) and not challenging for the title in that time...
your idea is to sack even more managers and become the next Chelsea?

No no no, this is purposefully ignoring that the evaluation can be made on more than just pure results. Any right minded analysis of ETH's performance doesn't just say "we've finished 3rd and 8th and are sitting 13th, not good enough", it always includes commentary on a complete lack of any discernable style, any coherence or organization. They always comment thoroughly on how uncoached and disfunctional the team is and how pretty much every single player we sign gets worse under him.

When Klopp came in there were very average results early on, but everyone could see the progress. There was a steady improvement in all aspects of their play and whilst he finished 8th in his first season there was no question they were making progress, they then went 4th, 4th, 2nd and 1st. There is absolutely no evidence of United being on any kind of upward trajectory at all.

To suggest that sacking a manager after 2 and a bit seasons on this evidence is knee jerk is asinine.

 

[Zumbi]

Sacking and planning replacement etc takes some time. No need to be knee jerk to to sucumb to fan pressure after a result and not have a plan in place. ETH is toast its a matter of time

The writing’s been on the wall since May. How have Ineos not been contingency planning for this exact outcome after coming so close to sacking him back then?

 

[Robbie Boy]

Jeez what happened to standards in this club, wins that FA Cup and oh we just forget about the 8th place finish and numerous beatings in last 2 seasons.

Standards went out the window for a lot of fans the day the great man retired. Look at some of the absolute shite our fans have celebrated over the years. Do you remember the whole "table since Bruno arrived" rhetoric during the Ole days!

 

[Zumbi]

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5809797/2024/10/01/ten-hag-benni-mccarthy-manchester-united/


McCarthy is so full of shit. First of all Erik is definitely not at the top tactically, he has made ton of tactical problems during his tenure here, including the ones that were so obviously bad - most fans could see them, and it's shocking a top manager could not.

Also, Erik definitely has very little charism, if any, but professional football players should not require their manager to have charisma, to motivate them, for feck's sake. Lack of charisma is more of a problem with media and fans, players need coaching. if they need to be motivated they are in the wrong place anyway. Not to mention, they have Ruud with plenty of charisma, now, but that has not changed their shitty performances. Duh!

Disagree - you can’t just disregard charisma. It’s an important leadership quality in any realm. It’s not a coincidence that many of the best leaders are very charismatic. The best football managers have to tactically astute but also be great communicators and motivators.

 

[TsuWave]

Also, Erik definitely has very little charism, if any, but professional football players should not require their manager to have charisma, to motivate them, for feck's sake. Lack of charisma is more of a problem with media and fans, players need coaching. if they need to be motivated they are in the wrong place anyway.

diminutive men were able to wreak havoc all throughout history for a reason, man

 

[izec]

Disagree - you can’t just disregard charisma. It’s an important leadership quality in any realm. It’s not a coincidence that many of the best leaders are very charismatic. The best football managers have to tactically astute but also be great communicators and motivators.

Correct. With tactics you can also have a great coaching staff around you to help out, but the manager has to be charismatic and smart enough in tactics himself and have a good staff he trusts.

 

[Cassidy]

The writing’s been on the wall since May. How have Ineos not been contingency planning for this exact outcome after coming so close to sacking him back then?

Who said they haven’t. Do you know they haven’t?

 

[Matt851]

What's the alternative give failing managers an average of 4-5 seasons to not challenge for a title?

This the same really dim logic we have been hearing over the last year and during the latter stages of ole.

People talk like just giving a failing manager more time will eventually work out.

In reality there are many more examples of the opposite. Its not the days of fergie any more and he was very much a special manager which ten hag clearly isn't.

Arteta seems to be the commonly used comparison but for most of the time there was progress to show in terms of playing style even if that wasn't reflected in results. They also had a much smaller budget in his first years.

If villa had applied the same logic with Gerrard they would still be languishing in lower mid table

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

Nothing strange about it. The last thing we need is a fluke win, and I’m at a point where he could not do anything anymore to convince me he’s the right man for the job.

Oh I was at that point last winter when we repeatedly played that horrid pressing/direct garbage without a single adjustment while getting battered by every team in the league.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

Sacking and planning replacement etc takes some time. No need to be knee jerk to to sucumb to fan pressure after a result and not have a plan in place. ETH is toast its a matter of time

Ironic considering a large reason he’s still here is in fact due to succumbing to fan pressure.

 

[Hughie77]

So what happens if we play rubbish in both but get an undeserved win in one of the two. He stays?

Most probably yes the board will keep him. Honestly I don't know what there thinking some fans have had enough some want to see him stay, we as fans can't sack him we can protest with them to sack him if you want.
Ultimately its up to the new regime which imo I thought he was gone after the FA cup regardless. The only thing I can grasp is there looking further down the line than the next few games? The options are very small on who comes in as well.

 

[pcaming]

There's no underlying stats to back his continued appointment. Everyone in the game knows that his setup is wrong, but he persists.

He is our worst post Fergie manager.

 

[Oranges038]

I'll stick with backing him.

More in hope, than expectation.

I think there's just no balance to the pace of the play, the team very rarely displays or maintains a consistent tempo throughout long periods in games, this effects the teams ability to build sustainable pressure on the opposition.

I think this makes it more difficult for players to stay focused enough to keep their shape, pace and concentration levels up. The games often go from being too slow in possession to 100mph in transitions. It's too erratic.

In the PL, I think you have to be able to maintain a higher level of intensity in games on and off the ball. You cannot allow the opposition time to get into set defensive positions off the balk and when they do you have to be able to shift the ball quickly and accurately to catch them out. Otherwise it becomes too difficult to break teams down and create enough good chances to score goals.

 

[Zumbi]

Who said they haven’t. Do you know they haven’t?

You said “sacking and planning replacement etc takes some time.” As if they haven’t had bags of time already.

Leaving a lame duck in charge when they could just put RvN in as interim now just makes zero sense - the longer Ten Hag is here the more damage he does.

 

[erikcred]

I assume he is due to a lot of reports mentioning his tactical knowledge. I don't think this is all just briefings by the club or his agent, I do think that there is a genuine reason for these reports from a lot of people (like here from McCarthy).

On the other hand we see how bad everything looks on the pitch, so this is why I think he has to show this tactical knowledge more in analysis than in actual preparation.

I think you're too generous. The same management that was so incompetent when it came to many aspects of running the club could've easily been fooled by some confident bs from ETH.

See how Slot's simple description of his tactics against us got so much attention. Hardly rocket science. But it caught people's eye for a reason beyond the usual Liverpool love from the media.

I don't recall hearing ETH ever talking about even simple tactics in a concrete way. I've only ever heard high level stuff like process, belief, confidence and best transition. All the way up to the latest interivew that just came out. Since he's not in the heat of the battle shouting at players in these situations, surely he should be able to explain his ideas better. Otherwise, where on earth do these reports from a lot of people on his tactical knowledge come from? He got an A+ in an exam while doing his coaching badges or something?

 

[Escobar]

His interviews used to be decent. Nowadays it is mainly delusional

 

[ArmaDino]

I’m ashamed to admit it but there’s a small part of me that wants to get smashed by Porto tomorrow. If only because I fear if we scrape results the next two games we’ll be doing this song and dance of “he might get sacked or might stay on” all year as our season goes down the toilet and we are left cutting ties in Feb/March when it’s obvious every goal we had is unachievable.

Because I also 100% believe an interim can get this team really close to top 4 and playing better stuff. It wouldn’t be hard to improve.

EL is the best hope for us to get CL next season. PL is gone. Hope ETH doesn't cock up the EL too. We need to win EL, it's our only hope.

Nothing to be ashamed really. I used to feel the same in Ole's last season when the wheels fell off. Back then I rationalized by thinking that the new coach will take us way above what Ole could, and look at us now. This time it might be different, since we actually have a proper footballing structure in place.

However I do agree with @Yakuza_devils: the EL is probably our best way of getting in the CL this season. For that reason alone I would take a convincing win over Porto tomorrow and then have ETH sacked after the Villa match. However if we play against Porto the way we did against Twente, we will get smashed for sure.

 

[CtrlAltDeLigt]

There has to be a deeper reason why manager after manager keeps failing to inspire this team to play consistently.

ETH doesn’t sound like the guy who can connect emotionally to players and inspire each day, but some blame has to fall on players for literally giving up mid game and not showing fight.

Sack ETH but no guarantee any new manager will suddenly make us consistent. Just looking at these players on the pitch and their approach towards games just gives the vibe they are either not serious enough, or just dumb as a collective.

It just will be one of the biggest mysteries ever why any manager in last 10 years can’t make us play consistently to a certain level.

 

[Zumbi]

There has to be a deeper reason why manager after manager keeps failing to inspire this team to play consistently.

ETH doesn’t sound like the guy who can connect emotionally to players and inspire each day, but some blame has to fall on players for literally giving up mid game and not showing fight.

Sack ETH but no guarantee any new manager will suddenly make us consistent. Just looking at these players on the pitch and their approach towards games just gives the vibe they are either not serious enough, or just dumb as a collective.

It just will be one of the biggest mysteries ever why any manager in last 10 years can’t make us play consistently to a certain level.

I don’t think it’s that big a mystery.

There are definitely some elements there that go beyond the manager: poor management and recruitment on a club level from the top down, as well as a lack of discipline amongst the players.

But one of the main reasons manager after manager keeps failing is that our recruitment of managers has also been poor. Not one of them had gone on to do anything particularly impressive afterwards.

You really think in a different environment the likes of Moyes, Ole and Ten Hag would have led other top teams to glory?

Our managers just haven’t been good enough and the club has repeatedly failed to recognise that quickly enough before moving on to the next one.

 

[julianfr]

I don't recall hearing ETH ever talking about even simple tactics in a concrete way. I've only ever heard high level stuff like process, belief, confidence and best transition. All the way up to the latest interivew that just came out. Since he's not in the heat of the battle shouting at players in these situations, surely he should be able to explain his ideas better. Otherwise, where on earth do these reports from a lot of people on his tactical knowledge come from? He got an A+ in an exam while doing his coaching badges or something?

You forgot to mention "the plan". For the love of all that is good don't ever forget the plan. We stick to it!

 

[ArmaDino]

There has to be a deeper reason why manager after manager keeps failing to inspire this team to play consistently.

ETH doesn’t sound like the guy who can connect emotionally to players and inspire each day, but some blame has to fall on players for literally giving up mid game and not showing fight.

Sack ETH but no guarantee any new manager will suddenly make us consistent. Just looking at these players on the pitch and their approach towards games just gives the vibe they are either not serious enough, or just dumb as a collective.

It just will be one of the biggest mysteries ever why any manager in last 10 years can’t make us play consistently to a certain level.

Too many players are here just to collect a paycheck. We have so many of them who are on bumper contracts and who consistently underperform. Rashford, Bruno, Casemiro, Maguire. And the sad thing is that we used to have even more of them(Sanchez, De Gea, Pogba, Varane, Sancho etc)

Which was exacerbated even further by Woodward's value protection policy, which rewarded a lot of players who were injured and under performing with bumper contracts, all of which led to a culture were players knew that they were safe no matter what. And once that culture takes hold, it's very hard to root it out, because it gets passed on to the new recruits, who in their turn pass it to the new recruits, etc etc.

There is a reason why players like Sanchez, Sancho and co look like completely different players once they switch clubs. Because unlike here, they have to actually play in order to justify a place on the team or they're out.

 

[Cassidy]

You said “sacking and planning replacement etc takes some time.” As if they haven’t had bags of time already.

Leaving a lame duck in charge when they could just put RvN in as interim now just makes zero sense - the longer Ten Hag is here the more damage he does.

It still takes time to execute. Its not like you can decide to sack ETH today and have contracts etc and staff all lined up for the replacement tomorrow. There will be a lot of logistics to execute on a plan especially if the manager you wanted was/is only available in the summer

 

[Zumbi]

It still takes time to execute. Its not like you can decide to sack ETH today and have contracts etc and staff all lined up for the replacement tomorrow. There will be a lot of logistics to execute on a plan especially if the manager you wanted was/is only available in the summer

Which is why interim managers exist.

What value is there in giving Ten Hag and his disastrous tactics any more time? What if an interim actually gets more out of the team?

 

[Redfrog]

Please Ineos, put the manager, the players and the fans out of misery.
How long have we to endure that ? One or two win won’t change anything.

 

[Cassidy]

Which is why interim managers exist.

What value is there in giving Ten Hag and his disastrous tactics any more time? What if an interim actually gets more out of the team?

An interim manager exists so you can finalise the details of terminating someones contract? What about the interims contract does that take 5 minutes as well? The fact there are 2 former managers as assistance probably speaks to some planning around there being an interim. Also in the grand scheme of things 2/3 games is not a big deal

 

[jderbyshire]

Why though? What are we achieving by keeping him here till for the sake of it. Maybe Ruud or any other interim manager can salvage the season and make real progress? I have no issue with us taking a bit of time to map things out but it’s as though teams don’t give reigns to an interim for a bit.

I think I'm just scared of another Rangnick scenario, where everyone sees the season as a write-off and players hardly try.

 

[DWelbz19]

This is true to be fair, but also feels like we are fast approaching a breakdown in relationship between manager and players again.

Shameless. How about their “pathetic” tactical set ups?

 

[ayushreddevil9]

I bet Rene Hake has been shouting a lot lately

 

[DJ_21]

He’s sounding like mourinho now. Getting desperate, he’s going on about trophies he’s won previously.

 

[crossy1686]

This is true to be fair, but also feels like we are fast approaching a breakdown in relationship between manager and players again.

Yeah, calling the players pathetic isn't really conducive to building a positive working relationship.

 

[Zumbi]

An interim manager exists so you can finalise the details of terminating someones contract? What about the interims contract does that take 5 minutes as well? The fact there are 2 former managers as assistance probably speaks to some planning around there being an interim. Also in the grand scheme of things 2/3 games is not a big deal

Are you seriously trying to argue that Ineos are logistically incapable of sacking Ten Hag right now and immediately replacing him with RvN as an interim? That with all their resources, completing such a feat over the course of a few days is uniquely beyond them when other clubs do it every single season?

It’s nonsese. They must’ve known since May that sacking him around now and replacing him with an interim like RvN was a very real possibility. So if they’re not logistically already prepared to do it then it’s incompetence. And if they are logistically prepared but still not doing it, then they’re just dithering. To what end?

And 2/3 games can absolutely matter in the grand scheme of things. The next game has a very real affect on our standings in the EL.

What is to gain from letting a lame duck like Ten Hag stay on a minute longer? Everyone knows he’s done.

 

[Cassidy]

Are you seriously trying to argue that Ineos are logistically incapable of sacking Ten Hag right now and immediately replacing him with RvN as an interim? That with all their resources, completing such a feat over the course of a few days is uniquely beyond them when other clubs do it every single season?

It’s nonsese. They must’ve known since May that sacking him around now and replacing him with an interim like RvN was a very real possibility. So if they’re not logistically already prepared to do it then it’s incompetence. And if they are logistically prepared but still not doing it, then they’re just dithering. To what end?

And 2/3 games can absolutely matter in the grand scheme of things. The next game has a very real affect on our standings in the EL.

What is to gain from letting a lame duck like Ten Hag stay on a minute longer? Everyone knows he’s done.

Im arguing it takes longer than a day

 

[big_jeffstar]

Does anyone else wonder why we’re making this whole “rebuild” thing much more complicated than it needs to be?… this isn’t rocket science.. focus attention on best goal scorer possible… next, find players who can feed him.. next, find midfield players who look after the ball well… find fullbacks who are good at knowing when to overlap.. buy fast defenders… just those things alone, mixed with the quality of players we realistically should be attracting would have us sitting in the top four most seasons..there’s too many kids trying to work out weird systems in positions we should never really have in the first place, I don’t know what any of them are trying to do in possession, and how the other players help them achieve that, it’s all so random…I watch a lot of football and the team as a whole baffles me..