Erik ten Hag | 2024/25 | Sacked

[saik]

Based on goals scored, matches won and points gained, it’s hard to argue Ten Hag is doing well.

Which of those metrics are ultimately more important in football?

Ultimately, trends like these tend to balance out over time. We can't continue underperforming our xG indefinitely; eventually, we will start to align with it. World-class players often exceed their xG, and it remains to be seen if any of our players can make that leap.

Currently, we rank second in the Premier League for xG created, and if this trend continues(keyword being if), we could record our highest xG in the past 5–6 years. Even during the Ole years we only managed to record xG of sub-60s over the course of the season. He was helped by Bruno being in the form of his life and an elite two-footed finisher in Greenwood.

We need to start converting chances and ensure our performances are more consistent though. I've highlighted this already in this thread a few times. While the performances have been encouraging for me, the results are still suffering. The hope is that the results soon reflect our performances.

 

[daba]

Why would it be unfortunate? Losses to both would mean consecutive seasons of failure.

There’s no unfortunately about it, if we do indeed lose another two games this early in the season.
Unbelievable records being set by Erik every season.

I guess the unfortunately part is subjective. I personally want every Utd manager to come in and succeed. I like a lot of what ETH has done in his time here:

He’s won us a couple trophies, he’s trusted youth, he’s significantly reduced player power across the squad.

I think we’ve made progress since he came in, and yes you’d expect that with the investment he’s been given, but I think it’s easy to forget how bad a state the squad was in when he took over. Night and day between what Slot has taken over for comparison.

By saying unfortunately I’m not saying it’s undeserved. Simply I think he seems like a good guy, he’s done some really positive things in his time here, but crucially he’s not been able to get the team playing a consistent and effective brand of football, even without the injuries this season.

 

[Who's Kissing Cameras?]

ETH seems to be using the first part of the season as his own pre-season. Team is progressively improving albeit very slowly but a lot of the work should have been done during pre-season.

We need a proven scorer and I’m hoping we get someone on loan at some point. He doesn’t have to be young and upcoming …maybe someone in the van Persie mould.

The RVP mould? As in 2012 RVP? That’s basically Haaland but he’s on steroids.

You guys strike fear into me. We really are morphing into 90s Tottenham.

We are already there. Expectations are in the floor amongst the fan base.

We are now a cup team. As Keane has pointed out multiple times.

The biggest clubs in the world would have gone through 3 managers in this time period.

 

[glazed]

Gross. That last line. The best we can hope for… it’s been an 11 year decline. Seriously. There are children, Man United supporters, who weren’t alive when we won our last title. It just kills me that our mentality is acceptance of mediocrity.

I agree we looked better. False dawn or the start of something promising?

To be fair we won at least two titles when City cheated so there's that. But right now there are three teams miles better than us. Fixing that takes time.

 

[Rojofiam]

Based on goals scored, matches won and points gained, it’s hard to argue Ten Hag is doing well.

Which of those metrics are ultimately more important in football?

I hope you realize that it's arguably the metrics that the other poster mentioned, especially on a 5 game sample size.

 

[bleedred]

This thread feels like a dejavu of last season.

Remember all the optimism after that "domination" against spurs/control against arsenal where we should have won but actually didn't.

This 60 minutes yesterday nonsense is what, probably the 81st time we have turned the corner/going in the right now?.

Our standards are in gutters. We have less aspirations than bottom half teams.

 

[bleedred]

To be fair we won at least two titles when City cheated so there's that. But right now there are three teams miles better than us. Fixing that takes time.

Fixing that takes not just time, mainly the right manager. That is the important part at the end of the day.

 

[glazed]

This thread feels like a dejavu of last season.

Remember all the optimism after that "domination" against spurs/control against arsenal where we should have won but actually didn't.

This 60 minutes yesterday nonsense is what, probably the 81st time we have turned the corner/going in the right now?.

Our standards are in gutters. We have less aspirations than bottom half teams.

We have a credible midfield and a solid back line. It's not the same. What we don't have is a decent centre forward because we've committed to coaching young ones rather than buying off the shelf. Will Hojland and Zirkzee come good on goal scoring? We will see. But logically RvN should be the target of our ire, not ETH.

 

[Zumbi]

xG should have higher correlation with where we will end than the current table.

I saw lots of positives yesterday, the first 60 mins were the best we have played in EPL probably in over 18 months. It was concerning that we weren’t able to score (and to be fair, Palace could have scored twice), but if we are able to replicate how we played yesterday for the first 60 mins, then there is no doubt in my mind that the results will follow. The issue though is that it might have well been an one off, and that not every team is as shit as Palace.

We should know in the next 5 matches how the season will go. I do not have a good feeling about it (I do not rate EtH at all), but if we play like yesterday in the next 5 matches, it means things are improving considerably.

Well yes, I have very little doubt that we’ll end up higher than 11th. Despite the positives yesterday though, I still retain a lot of doubt we’ll end up top four, which is the absolute bare minimum standard I’m holding Ten Hag to. That’s the crux of the issue for me.

We’re going to face much tougher opposition than the Crystal Palace side we faced yesterday and there are recurring issues under him regarding our failure to score enough goals, failure to make impactful, positive tactical and personnel changes mid game, and failure to see out games (look at his goals conceded in injury time record). Those three things still felt very much in play yesterday despite the dramatically improved first half, and all of those things regularly cost us important points. We’ll continue to get punished by better teams if we don’t sort all three of those things asap, high xg or not.

 

[Zumbi]

I hope you realize that it's arguably the metrics that the other poster mentioned, especially on a 5 game sample size.

You’re seriously trying to claim XG is more important than goals or points?

They should definitely change how they do the league table then.

 

[Zumbi]

e

We have a credible midfield and a solid back line. It's not the same. What we don't have is a decent centre forward because we've committed to coaching young ones rather than buying off the shelf. Will Hojland and Zirkzee come good on goal scoring? We will see. But logically RvN should be the target of our ire, not ETH.

You want to give Ten Hag time in his third season but also want to target RVN with ire after five games!? Jesus wept.

 

[Sarni]

It is not about getting excited but if we continue to stick to the performance like in the last 3 games then results will follow. This is not to say we are some world-class side but I did see some encouraging signs. Of course it could all lead to nothing if we resort to same old like last season.

We weren’t really much better than them in the second half after both teams made their tactical adjustments. Also has to be said that Palace as of now are a very chaotic, disjointed side that has been largely dominated by all teams they’ve played so far, so they aren’t exactly setting a bar very high.

 

[RedSky]

Based on goals scored, matches won and points gained, it’s hard to argue Ten Hag is doing well.

Which of those metrics are ultimately more important in football?

Where's that 'we won a throw in' meme.

 

[glazed]

e


You want to give Ten Hag time in his third season but also want to target RVN with ire after five games!? Jesus wept.

Not at all they both need time. But yesterday we dominated Palace, looked solid at the back and created loads of chances. The problem was finishing when our wingers aren't that clinical and neither is our false number nine. How many would Erling Harland have scored yesterday is the question I ask. Quite a few. I see that as progress.

 

[Leethal]

We're talking about scoring goals here. Don't be blinded by the anomalous 7 goals we scored against a league one side. We've scored 5 goals in the PL, the same as the bottom two. The old and the new structure has nothing to do with that. It's down to training, tactics, and performance on the pitch. Not what someone is doing in the backroom. He has the players. This is his squad now. Well, until he's sacked which will be sooner rather than later if we keep up our current form in the PL.

We’ve had no issue, at all, creating chances. We just can’t put it in the net. If we weren’t creating, sure, that’s synonymous with training, tactics, performance on pitch, etc. But we are. Bit of luck, or perhaps better composure in front of goal (both of which he has no control over), and we’d be sitting a lot prettier. People are just immaturely ranting in this shit-show of a thread. They can’t even pin-point what he’s doing wrong this season. All they got it a points total to drive their pathetic narratives.

 

[bleedred]

We have a credible midfield and a solid back line. It's not the same. What we don't have is a decent centre forward because we've committed to coaching young ones rather than buying off the shelf. Will Hojland and Zirkzee come good on goal scoring? We will see. But logically RvN should be the target of our ire, not ETH.

Getting the next excuse already in. Good to see.

 

[Zumbi]

Not at all they both need time. But yesterday we dominated Palace, looked solid at the back and created loads of chances. The problem was finishing when our wingers aren't that clinical and neither is our false number nine. How many would Erling Harland have scored yesterday is the question I ask. Quite a few. I see that as progress.

Then why are you suggesting RvN deserves our ire when he’s only been here for five games?

 

[Bestie07]

We actually saw ten Hag's vision in action for the majority of the first half in action yesterday, and I was impressed. I don't care too much about the fact that we couldn't convert our chances as we will ultimately start to score goals as long as we keep on creating chances.

However, my concern is ten Hag's in game management as his substitutions made us progressively worse. There was no need to take off Zirkzee to play Rashford/Hojlund through the middle as either of them can't take care of the ball to save their lives. He followed this up with replacing Amad, instead of a visibly tiring Garnacho, and we then had a front three which kept giving the ball away and we reverted to last year's team. Didn't help that he kept Bruno who kept on turning over possession as well.

The problem with this scenario is that if we even continue to grow as a team and become capable to title challenges and deep European runs, this type of in game management is going to cost us in the crucial games that decide these trophies.

 

[Judas]

There’s far far far too much chat about Ruud on here. Does any other teams fanbase talk so much about the managers assistants?

 

[Rojofiam]

You’re seriously trying to claim XG is more important than goals or points?

They should definitely change how they do the league table then.

Yes, they are, because the underlying statistics give you a clearer picture of where we are, especially if the sample size of games played is very low.

For example, not sure how ETH is supposed to turn 10.21 xG into 10+ goals other than becoming player-manager and putting himself up front for us?

Do you blame ETH for the 0-7 at Anfield, or do you blame De Gea and the outfield players more for conceding 7 goals from 2.91 conceded xG?

 

[Zumbi]

We’ve had no issue, at all, creating chances. We just can’t put it in the net. If we weren’t creating, sure, that’s synonymous with training, tactics, performance on pitch, etc. But we are. Bit of luck, or perhaps better composure in front of goal (both of which he has no control over), and we’d be sitting a lot prettier. People are just immaturely ranting in this shit-show of a thread. They can’t even pin-point what he’s doing wrong this season. All they got it a points total to drive their pathetic narratives.

Nonsense. Lots of posters have made very detailed and specific criticisms of his in game management yesterday, and how his subs negatively affected our second half performance when the match was there for the taking.

All you’ve done is come on here and throw around insults at anyone critiquing Ten Hag. And you have the audacity to call people immature?

 

[laughtersassassin]

7 points after 5 games and not a whisper of being fired. Scored 5 goals and conceeded 5 as well.

Do we have any standards anymore?

 

[Atheist]

His lack of ability to influence the game late on is quite concerning- both against Brighton and Crystal Palace, the team just decides to play for the draw, and we lost against the former. Previously he could rely on throwing McTominay in and bail him out, but that escape hatch no longer exists. Also this “bad luck” cannot be used as an excuse - you either score goals and win games or
you don’t. A consistent inability to score goals indicate a flaw in management, even if it’s not a tactical one.

 

[Zumbi]

Yes, they are, because the underlying statistics give you a clearer picture of where we are, especially if the sample size of games played is very low.

For example, not sure how ETH is supposed to turn 10.21 xG into 10+ goals other than becoming player-manager and putting himself up front for us?

Do you blame ETH for the 0-7 at Anfield, or do you blame De Gea and the outfield players more for conceding 7 goals from 2.91 conceded xG?

Was it 14th or 16th we finished in the xg table last season? So by you reckoning Ten Hag should have been sacked long ago.

Xg does not perfectly correlate with results and league position, but it is ultimately on points and league position that Ten Hag will be judged. If we finish the season 8th in the table but 4th in xg we won’t qualify for the CL and Ten Hag will be gone. The final league position is all that will matter when all is said and done.

I hold both Ten Hag and the players accountable for losses like that. Not sure why it always has to be one or the other? Seems like a weak cop out for deflecting responsibility.

 

[Shark]

7 points after 5 games and not a whisper of being fired. Scored 5 goals and conceeded 5 as well.

Do we have any standards anymore?

Since LVG got fired for Mourinho after winning the FA Cup, it doesn't seem so. As diabolical Woodward was, he at least was aware in that case that the manager was going nowhere.

 

[Irwin99]

The performance of Eriksen yesterday, coupled with our best period under EtH undoubtedly being when we had that combo of Bruno-Eriksen-Casemiro up until the league cup final, does make me think that we should perhaps have targeted a different type of midfielder and someone like Eriksen but younger and stronger.

The pressing was excellent again yesterday in the first half, but the ball retention was better than I've seen us play for a long time in that regard. If he can't fix the goal-scoring problem though he won't last much longer.

 

[Zumbi]

The performance of Eriksen yesterday, coupled with our best period under EtH undoubtedly being when we had that combo of Bruno-Eriksen-Casemiro up until the league cup final, does make me think that we should perhaps have targeted a different type of midfielder and someone like Eriksen but younger and stronger.

The pressing was excellent again yesterday in the first half, but the ball retention was better than I've seen us play for a long time in that regard. If he can't fix the goal-scoring problem though he won't last much longer.

There are rumours that it was Ineos talking Ten Hag into the Ugarte signing, but it seemed to be Ten Hag who pushed for the Mount signing. It’s hard to know exactly what’s at play behind the scenes with the profile we go for in the middle of the park, but our very long running aversion to prioritizing a passing metronome at CM continues to baffle, when it so clearly seems to be something that would enhance our play.

 

[glazed]

Then why are you suggesting RvN deserves our ire when he’s only been here for five games?

I'm not. I'm saying he's more deserving than ETH if it's a coaching problem. Personally I'm not that critical of the coaching team, I think we'll come good. But my biggest concern is the lack of an experienced centre forward. I'm not sure Hojland is ready.

 

[Sarni]

Getting the next excuse already in. Good to see.

These fecking coaches are letting him down.

 

[glazed]

There are rumours that it was Ineos talking Ten Hag into the Ugarte signing

Sounds credible if he really wants a de Jong. INEOS are forcing a more practical approach. But wasn't the rumour he wanted to keep McT more than that he didn't want Ugarte? Might have just been a short term thing.

 

[Sarni]

His lack of ability to influence the game late on is quite concerning- both against Brighton and Crystal Palace, the team just decides to play for the draw, and we lost against the former. Previously he could rely on throwing McTominay in and bail him out, but that escape hatch no longer exists. Also this “bad luck” cannot be used as an excuse - you either score goals and win games or
you don’t. A consistent inability to score goals indicate a flaw in management, even if it’s not a tactical one.

It’s been a theme since his first season. His substitutions, or any in game management attempts have usually made us worse.

 

[laughtersassassin]

Comical how shit ETH is allowed to have us doing

 

[Von Mistelroum]

EtH is officially back! This goalless draw keeps us primed and ready to strike from our cunning hiding spot in the bottom half of the table!

Hopefully we can get some more of these plucky results against those teams that usually dominate us and we'll be well and truly back! A narrow loss to Brighton this season would feel like a cup final! I'm starting to believe this can happen for Erik and his budget squad.

 

[Rojofiam]

Was it 14th or 16th we finished in the xg table last season? So by you reckoning Ten Hag should have been sacked long ago.

Xg does not perfectly correlate with results and league position, but it is ultimately on points and league position that Ten Hag will be judged. If we finish the season 8th in the table but 4th in xg we won’t qualify for the CL and Ten Hag will be gone. The final league position is all that will matter when all is said and done.

I hold both Ten Hag and the players accountable for losses like that. Not sure why it always has to be one or the other? Seems like a weak cop out for deflecting responsibility.

Yes, exactly, last season even 8th flattered us.

xG and other metrics don't perfectly correlate with league positions, because even a 38-game league season leaves some room for variance.

Also, good xG probably won't save ten Hag long-term, if the results are similar to last season, but a good xPts tally that the players massively underperform on the pitch probably would save him IMO.

Regarding the 7-0, it's not deflecting responsibility. It's highlighting that dismissing context, underlying statistics and just focusing on results will never get you anywhere.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

There’s far far far too much chat about Ruud on here. Does any other teams fanbase talk so much about the managers assistants?

Always been that way here for some weird reason. I still remember the "what does Phelan do" threads from the last few years of the SAF era.

 

[Zumbi]

I'm not. I'm saying he's more deserving than ETH if it's a coaching problem. Personally I'm not that critical of the coaching team, I think we'll come good. But my biggest concern is the lack of an experienced centre forward. I'm not sure Hojland is ready.

After five games? When you’re one of the ones that’s preached patience for Ten Hag in his third season?

Can you really not see how ridiculously knee jerk and hypocritical that is? Seems like you’ll do literally anything to deflect from Ten Hag, even if it means throwing a brand new coach under the bus. Shameful.

 

[Zumbi]

Sounds credible if he really wants a de Jong. INEOS are forcing a more practical approach. But wasn't the rumour he wanted to keep McT more than that he didn't want Ugarte? Might have just been a short term thing.

Which doesn’t really make sense to me given how he used McTominay last season. They wouldn’t have been competing for the same spots. Who knows.

 

[IRN-BRUno]

Premier League away record:
P41 - W17 - D7 - L17
GF52 - GA65

If you want that to look even more grim, without promoted sides:
P34 - W10 - D7 - L17
GF39 - GA62

 

[Guv77]

Flawless

His posts make out that everything is amazing. I remember him saying Evan Ferguson was 'Haaland and Rooney rolled into one'.

His also the same tactico that stated Burnley and Kompany will take the PL by storm last year.

 

[r0663664]

I cannot remember that last time that Erik made a substitutions that change that course of the game. Erik's substitutions so far has not been trying to change the outcome of the game. He replaced players who are tired, carrying some injury or having a yellow card. He should have play Rashford and replace Rashford with Garnacho when he needed a result. With defenders tired, it is the best time to unleash Garnacho. Eriksen should have come on to provide more creativity. There are so many evidence to prove Erik is a poor manager and he is still sticking around. If he loses the next 2 EPL games, please get him out of this club.