Are we really splitting hairs between 15th & 18th?
This is exactly what I mean. We’re Manchester United. This is absolutely pathetic.
Erik ten Hag | 2024/25 | Sacked
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Are we really splitting hairs between 15th & 18th?
This is exactly what I mean. We’re Manchester United. This is absolutely pathetic.
Are we really splitting hairs between 15th & 18th?
This is exactly what I mean. We’re Manchester United. This is absolutely pathetic.
Well, I'm splitting hairs because we're not 15th from the last 15 games. We're 12th. People also keep stating these arbitrary 15-17 game ranges as "that's almost half a season", when over the past 19 games. which is actually half a season, we're 7th.
I also think people don't realise quite what relegation form looks like when they go on about it being relegation form. Even if we go by this 15 game metric, we've picked up 19 points. It's not great, but Sheffield United and Luton picked up 6 points over their last 15 games, Wolves 9 points, and Burnley 11 points.
Yeah thankfully the likes of Sheff Utd, Burnley and Luton exist. The fact that it's even a discussion point says it all.
If you want to go beyond half a season, in the 27 games since December we'd be 9th with 5 less points than Bournemouth and just 2 more than Everton. Goal difference - 6.
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I can appreciate fan frustration, and that we've simply not been good enough for far too long, but I really don't get where this "relegation" hysteria is coming from, because even at our lowest ebb, we've still been a fairly comfortable mid-table side, and if it gets any worse (and very likely if things don't improve very soon), we'll have a new manager who will hopefully set things right.
For sure and I think it's achievable.
The record is awful! That's the past. Learn, progress and move forward.
Confidence isn't there I agree with you. It will be a different story and vibe if they do well and get a fair few points. By the end of those games our squad should be all fit and ready and we will be properly into the season. All new signings have plenty of time to find their feet by then.
I know we both hope you're wrong! If United do very bad during this period of an easier set of games then INEOS will likely act.
I am an extremely optimistic person. That's just me and from my own life. When in bad situations, the right attitude and optimism gets you out of it. I got slack on this thread a few days back because posters felt I was too optimistic and maybe I am. I may be a little unrealistic at times I won't deny that. We can't do anything about the past, the time for dwelling back is over and time to move forward and hopefully mistakes are learned from.
Well as long as we’re better than Sheffield United, Luton, Wolves & Burnley that’s okay then. Hope Erik keeps up the good work.
In the last 3 games, United have scored as low as Crystal Palace, Ipswich, and Everton, with only Southampton is worse.
Incredible.
Incredible.
You're just shifting goalposts now.
We've gone from a claim that we're in the relegation zone over the last 15 games, to being 15th over the last 15 games, only for it to transpire that we're actually 12th over the last 15 games, and 7th over the last half a season's worth.
He's not doing a good enough job, and unless things improve very quickly, he's going to be deservedly out of a job before long. I've never argued otherwise, and I'm simply pointing out that people are making up bollocks to make it sound like we've been even worse than we actually have been.
What an illustrious list..
I commend your positivity, and kind of envy it.
I also think you're unrealistically positive without much evidence to back it up.
The whole 'forget the past' thing doesn't sit well with me, as history isn't just history, it also dictates the future in a major way.
Separating the two seldom worsk, and at this point there is very little to suggest that Ten Hag just all of the sudden gets his players to play some amazing brand of football that just turns everything around.
Not trying to be disrespectful or take away from your positivity. You do you, and all the power to you for managing to stay so positive!
If anything, I hope you are right and I am humiliatingly wrong.
I just can't see that happening.
Wow. 3 games. Huge sample that.
Impressive how you've missed the actual point he's made.
I don't think anyone would disagree with your second bolded point there mate. And you're right about us overpaying for a lot of these players, but I think all some are trying to say is that Ten Hag played no small part in us overpaying for most of those players. If he doesn't finish 4th and secure CL football (if he lasts that long) then he should definitely not be given another season.
Just trying to see a trend from the other 76 samples.
I had a feeling you'd expand the sample size.
For what it's worth I'm in full agreement that Ten hag needed to show progression yesterday. But if you want to share a stat from the first 3 games of the new campaign you should stick to it rather than move goalposts.
The point is precisely how shit those teams were. We've simply not come close to being that bad, and the relegation hysteria needs to stop.
That's a separate argument though. I'm not arguing for keeping Ten Hag, rather that any manager is extremely likely to fall short of expectations if they're based on the money we've wasted prior to INEOS.
I agree that in Ten Hag's case, the goose may well be cooked if we miss out on CL qualification, but I do think there's a chance he keeps his job if we show real signs of moving forwards. The real prize from this season will be spending most of it playing decent football and getting good results far more often than we have poor ones. As I said, the CL qualification might be hard to come by regardless of us having a decent season, simply because of the competition at the top.
Interesting you'd say this considering your thoughts is multiple tier one reports of INEOS suggesting targets coupled with ten hags own words is bollocks, and you feel the Dutch connection takes priority.
2023/24 - 38 games - 57 goals = 1.5 goals/game
2022/23 - 38 games - 58 goals = 1.5 goals/game
We're way behind the schedule. Not an encouraging start to show any improvement this season.
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If you can get onboard with the idea of a pre and post INEOS era.
Post
3 games is not enough of a sample size to sack the manager.
Pre
2+ seasons is enough of a sample size (even with 2 Cups) to sack the manager.
Just depends on where you stand.
Post
3 games is not enough of a sample size to sack the manager.
Pre
2+ seasons is enough of a sample size (even with 2 Cups) to sack the manager.
Just depends on where you stand.
3 games is a small sample size, but what we can see is that no alot has changed...
It's a depressing situation we are in again, a fresh start should have been made with INEOS.
I disagree, most of our players are extremely overrated.
haha thank you! People who know me always say that! It comes from my own experience managing my business. It's the same for sport IMO. What you seek is what you get. If you're negative, you will get negative results vice versa.
You stated I'm unrealistically positive - as funny as it sounds, I agree with you. And history - history often repeats itself. This situation with Ten Hag is similar (in the sense he could be om the verge of the sack) with Fergie back in the late 80s. It's a different time. I'm only saying they stuck with him and it shaped the future of the club for another 20 odd years. To clarify, I am not comparing him to Ferguson.
How was the future shaped? By reinstating the ideology of the past from Matt Busby's time. With his own twist.
In my opinion, there is a very fine margin between success and failure and INEOS have that decision to make with whether to keep the manager or sack him. The result will shape United's future history, good or bad.
I also could be humiliating wrong! I think we are going to have the answer of his future over the next 7 games. That will be 10 PL games played and that should be enough time to tell whether going forward with Ten Hag is the correct move or part ways.
1 good season exceeding expectations in PL, trophy, final, deep run europa league
1 very poor season below expectations in PL (even with injuries), trophy, terrible cl campaign
What did Spurs, Chelsea and Arsenal accomplish?
1 very poor season below expectations in PL (even with injuries), trophy, terrible cl campaign
What did Spurs, Chelsea and Arsenal accomplish?
He shouldn't be staying long enough to find out, problem is we just aren't a serious football club.
I think I'm becoming known as Mr Positivity in this thread! I get where you're coming from. I've kind of made the same mistake as you here.
The argument is over the quality of the football and Ten Hag's style of play. Which has damaged the amount of points United get in a season. So that's what you have to make points back on.
It also doesn't matter what those three teams have done. What matters is what United have done. United should be the benchmark, the other teams should be chasing us.
I'm not having a go at you, by the way! I don't fully disagree with where you're coming from, I'm just stating what the thread has become about.
We literally made a decision based on 1 game not so long ago. If he wins any of the next 4 then he’s a hero and deserves to stay until the end of season.
I don’t think so, if we were then we would not win two trophies, I feel sorry for you hehe
Yeah it's not like we've had 80 odd games of being complete shit is it
No football existed before INEOS here. You can’t judge him on any of the games prior to this Summer except for trophy wins which you are free to quote as much as you like.
I'm positive that if people could change their vote on this poll, a 1-0 scrappy win vs Southampton would shift it by like 20% in ETH's favour.
Last season and beginning of this season, he has not been able to get his team be cohesive, compact and look like a team. That is the biggest red flag and why he should have been sacked last season.
You can excuse lack of a cutting edge, lack of fluidity due to injuries. The structure and compactness, however, should be fairly easy to achieve.
You can excuse lack of a cutting edge, lack of fluidity due to injuries. The structure and compactness, however, should be fairly easy to achieve.
A draw will get him to 30%, scrappy win to 40%. If we actually play remotely well - and remember there were people who thought we were GREAT against Fulham and Brighton - then it is going to be 50%+.
To even debate that Arsenal have not been better than us over the last two years is a monumental waste of time.
I don't think it's going to happen, but if we come back from the international break and start putting together a run of results and performances that ultimately see us qualify for the CL off the back of a good season, I'm not going to call for his head in the summer, because that would be insane.
Palace and West Ham away are rarely straight forward and Im fully expecting us to make hard work of Southampton and Brentford.
And yeah we are in the shit. There is a very real possibility we only pick up 2 wins in that run.
The "majority of 2024" bit is really not working for me there.
Poch at Chelsea won just 5 of the first 13 league games he played in 2024. It was really only the final 5 games of the season when it started to click for him and Chelsea, as they'd also had a shocking start to the season.
The second half of last season is also when the wheels started to come off a bit for Ange at Spurs. 8 wins from the last 18 league games in 2023/24, with seven defeats, including ending the season with two wins in their final seven (against Burnley and Sheffield United) and losing four in a row, to completely torpedo their CL hopes. Their start to this season has seen them draw with Leicester and lose to Newcastle.
In fact, we've actually done better than Spurs over the last 19 league games.
At that point basically any game of football we have to play is "horrible on paper".
We've not started the season well, but "on paper" we've got a fairly straightforward run at it between now and the Arsenal game in December. Even the tougher fixtures are on the more winnable side of things than some of the others we've got later in the season.
It's precisely because we should be winning most of them "on paper" that we'll soon find out whether Ten Hag has actually got it in him to turn it around.
For what it's worth, I fully expect us to make an absolute meal of it against Southampton, let alone anything that follows.
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1 game last season was apparently enough of a sample size for keeping him
No I appreciate that mate. Well we'll have to see how it plays out. Ineos may wel be happy with an uptick in performances and results even if it doesn't translate to CL qualification. But Ratcliffe did say last year that the club needs CL football.
1, I've no genuinely idea what you are talking about here. As the conversation had nothing to do with Ineos, I'm replying to a point from another poster about players signed before Ineos even took over (Antony, Casemiro, Onana, Mount and Hojlund). But as we've established previously comprehension isn't a strong point of yours.
2, I never actually said what you are claiming but that's a trend with you. I didn't say these sources you keep referring to were bollocks. All I said is they may have been fed spin by people within the club, (read carefully, may have been) at no point did I say they made shit up which is what it seems you are suggesting.
What exactly is your problem and why do you keep spouting nonsense? Why don't you just put me on ignore if my posts upset you so much?
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