Erik ten Hag | 2024/25 | Sacked

Erik ten Hag

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Ruud is more unqualified than Ole was, I am genuinely baffled by the obsession with seeing him as our manager right now. He might do good in a bounce period, but beyond that? Total risk.
Yeah bizarre.
 
No, you actually didn't answer my questions even there. You wouldn't answer it now to close it off either. And it was quite related to the debate today as well.
I agree one tier one source can get things wrong or be tilted the wrong way. I don't agree that there's a good chance multiple are wrong especially when it's against the biased narrative of a particular fan who's just pissed off by Dutch signings.

I love United signing Dutch players. Always been a fan of the Dutch.

It doesn't matter, we can move on. I've said what I had to say on the matter now and it was related to the debate you had today, if you read the post.

Great let's not do it again some time.
 
I think Ineos know exactly what they are doing.
They had limited options on an ETH replacement. He won the cup so that gave the excise to buy time.

-Tuchel either didn’t want it or they couldn’t agree.
-They knew the fans didn’t want Southgate or Potter.
-They didn’t fancy Poch for some unknown reason.

They clearly knew they didn’t have full ETH confidence so they went to plan B.

Plan B

Get the right structures in place, buy in the priority positions the players they wanted. Reduce the wage bill, and get dead wood out the squad.

Give ETH a chance and if he’s successful great if not simply remove him and give it to RVN.

Had they brought RVN in the summer we’d have gone nuts, as would the press, plus it would be Inoes man. They can bring him in now and give him the season if he does amazing they can keep him and if not they can get their choice of coach, who’ll inherit a decent squad.

I think this is actually a great plan.
If a good plan is to know the manager you have kept on will probably continue to fail, so you have hired RVN that no one would have wanted to replace him in the summer to step in when Ten Hag finally goes, so we can then watch him not be good enough for a few months, before they suddenly reveal an elite mystery manager in the summer who no one can think of now, then I agree with you.

And the priority players can just have been Yoro and Ugarte then, as the Dutch link with the other three is not some sort of bizzare coincidence no matter what Ten Hag says.
There was no elite manager available.

Ineos have always said they want to unearth diamonds. Just to be clear RVN led PSV to second, a cup and a shield. He left with one game to go with a win percentage of 62%.
He chose to leave due to insufficient support within the club. This isn’t too different to Slot except Slott won the league.

This is his coaching philosophy.

"I love the game, and I love a certain way of playing. At Manchester United, Sir Alex was always pushing us forward. Look forward, play forward, get crosses in, shoot on target. As a player, I loved the way that made me feel. I wanted to play like that, and I want to transmit that same feeling to my teams, to my players."

I want ETH to shock us all and succeed, but I’m also happy to give RVN the season if that can’t happen.
 
There was no elite manager available.

Ineos have always said they want to unearth diamonds. Just to be clear RVN led PSV to second, a cup and a shield. He left with one game to go with a win percentage of 62%.
He chose to leave due to insufficient support within the club. This isn’t too different to Slot except Slott won the league.

This is his coaching philosophy.

"I love the game, and I love a certain way of playing. At Manchester United, Sir Alex was always pushing us forward. Look forward, play forward, get crosses in, shoot on target. As a player, I loved the way that made me feel. I wanted to play like that, and I want to transmit that same feeling to my teams, to my players."

I want ETH to shock us all and succeed, but I’m also happy to give RVN the season if that can’t happen.

We've been here before though haven't we, the chances of RVN been good enough to manage United is a massive long shot, and he should serve his time working his way up, rather than be thrown in at United in desperate times.

If Ten Hag continues as he is doing now, and is too stubborn or too limited as a manager to change things, then he will be sacked, and then it wouldn't take much for RVN to be able to improve things and get the new manager bounce for a while, but that could end up been the worst thing to happen for United in the long run if he is hired full time on the back of it.

We just need an elite manager of Ineos's choice, or one that has worked his way up and proven himself at a smaller club for a few years who Ineos can justify taking a chance on.

And as for Slot, he hasn't proven anything yet, the wheels could easily fall off soon enough.
 
Biesla exposing baldy as a liar tonight, Ugarte starting for Uruguay



“If you see Manuel Ugarte, he didn't play so far in the season. Not one match minute. So he needs to build his fitness but that will take a couple of weeks, maybe even months"
Ten Hag has different priorities and may have a different idea of what fit means.
 
The part about Collyer bombing forward is right: if someone else stays back it should be ok.

The structure is way tighter than last season.

In attack we are pretty much playing
3 1 6. If the ball is lost, we have to press and force a long ball which should be won by our defenders. That way you can keep control and the pressure on.

We will see whether he achieves this more consistently or not, his job depends on it.
I think what hurting us most is that we aren't really committing in full to the principles of what he is trying to build. That's why he is failing because;
  • You need keen presses up front, he is not demanding this and the half hearted efforts expose the whole team.
  • The inverting fullback isn't really staying in midfield to help the DM with a short passing option.
  • The DM is not a good passer, he can't consistently make the forward passes his quick transitions require. We would be better served having a passer in there than an off the ball monster, don't know how he is going to work it out with Ugarte and Mainoo. This system demands a Scholes type as the DM.
  • The defense is not pushing up to compress the space, I think its better to concede from break away goals than to have a swam of opposition players overrunning your midfield and outnumbering the defense.
 
The part about Collyer bombing forward is right: if someone else stays back it should be ok.

The structure is way tighter than last season.

In attack we are pretty much playing
3 1 6. If the ball is lost, we have to press and force a long ball which should be won by our defenders. That way you can keep control and the pressure on.

We will see whether he achieves this more consistently or not, his job depends on it.

Like Thomas Frank said last season, they make their first three passes on the turnover and they know they've got big opportunities against us. That's still the case now. Our press is easily bypassed, most teams find a way out through width against us. On top of that, there's always countless options passing through the lines. I've yet to see any team really resort to going long against us, and the few times they have (Palace last season) they were practically through on goal. Any team that is well coached will give us problems.
 
We've been here before though haven't we, the chances of RVN been good enough to manage United is a massive long shot, and he should serve his time working his way up, rather than be thrown in at United in desperate times.

If Ten Hag continues as he is doing now, and is too stubborn or too limited as a manager to change things, then he will be sacked, and then it wouldn't take much for RVN to be able to improve things and get the new manager bounce for a while, but that could end up been the worst thing to happen for United in the long run if he is hired full time on the back of it.

We just need an elite manager of Ineos's choice, or one that has worked his way up and proven himself at a smaller club for a few years who Ineos can justify taking a chance on.

And as for Slot, he hasn't proven anything yet, the wheels could easily fall off soon enough.
A new manager failing is not a big deal, most managers fail. This is the unnecessary pressure that Ineos are putting themselves under, that they have to get the first appointment right and so they hurt the club by keeping a failure in place.

If you name Ruud as interim and he impresses enough to earn a permanent role then you negotiate a 2+1 deal, with the plus one being heavily dependable on tangilbles like CL qualification, trophies etc and you give him a basic salary, say 8m and the rest in incentives and insert the Moyes break clause so that you can sack him early and cheaply if it doesn't work out.

Are Ineos trying to tell us that if there is no elite manager available we will stick with a shit one? That's nonsense, this is still a big and attractive job and not every manager has to be the one to finally win us the title. We could get a transitional manager, give him a relatively breakable contract so that we can sack him if an Alonso or Inzargi becomes available. We can't allow the club to continue on this slide because someone thinks they must get it right on the first try.
 
I saw these comments as Ten Hag's way of justifying not playing the lad. He wasn't wanting him so he'll be used like Amad - if he absolutely has to.
Not sure where do you get those ideas of yours but I do think there another angle here and you could see these comments as method of lowering everyone’s expectations against Ugarte. I read and listen a lot of information on how he will improve or save our midfield. I’m pretty sure he will but not every one kicks the ground running from the start.
 
Not sure where do you get those ideas of yours but I do think there another angle here and you could see these comments as method of lowering everyone’s expectations against Ugarte. I read and listen a lot of information on how he will improve or save our midfield. I’m pretty sure he will but not every one kicks the ground running from the start.
Less expectation than not passing the ball straight to the opposition? Because that's the bar for that position right now.

Or is he lowering expectations the same way he's lowered it for himself? After all, there are people here saying we bossed Coventry to a penalty shootout win!
 
The difference between 4th and 5th is fairly black and white, so no, we're not "talking shades of gray" and yes you are coming across as delusional because you've based your expectations on superficial transfer expenditure.

I had this back and forth earlier with someone else. You simply cannot hold the view that Antony is nowhere near an £80 million player, Casemiro no longer comes close to being worth £60 million, Onana was never a £45 million player, and that we've overspent on the likes of Mount and Hojlund, and then point to our transfer expenditure as if it holds any meaning.

You're also completely ignoring that we've effectively changed owners since then. I don't know how many times I have to make it clear to you that this isn't even about Ten Hag for me. We could sack him now and I would still expect us to be in a fight for top four, simply because our squad isn't very good.



I wish people would stop posting this. It's not true at all. We've been bad, and below the standards we should have been reaching, but even then we've been mid-table.

I counted it out the other day. Literally only City, Arsenal, Liverpool, Villa, Chelsea and Newcastle have more points than us over the past 19 Premier League games. We managed more than Spurs in that timeframe.
You’re right mate. Ten Hag is the next Sir Alex. We just need Yoro healthy, and Hojlund and Shaw, then these tactics will take hold and we’ll take off. And another three years of slow steady progress. We could hit a +10 GD this season, then next +15.
 
You’re right mate. Ten Hag is the next Sir Alex. We just need Yoro healthy, and Hojlund and Shaw, then these tactics will take hold and we’ll take off. And another three years of slow steady progress. We could hit a +10 GD this season, then next +15.
I like how you just ignored his post and wrote some exaggerated nonsense (again)
 
You’re right mate. Ten Hag is the next Sir Alex. We just need Yoro healthy, and Hojlund and Shaw, then these tactics will take hold and we’ll take off. And another three years of slow steady progress. We could hit a +10 GD this season, then next +15.

Yes, that's exactly what I said.
 
Watched Wales under Bellamy last night and it's night and day from what Page was doing. He's had 4 days with the squad with a number of big injuries and they already played better football than we are watching in ten Hag's third year.
 
He's managing, game-by-game, because he has failed to convince fans, past and current ownership about his ability to manage a, or his, squad. It's ETH that raises the questions. Three seasons in and he still seems to be seeking answers to questions that his, his actions have raised. The Liverpool defeat, at home, simply exposed that.

Unfortunately, ETH shows little to convince me, or it seems many, that he can change things and thus cannot be allowed to continue too long, because it becomes entrenched, that sense of limitation. We play ok, sometimes quite well, but most of the time we seem disjointed, confused and lacking a plan.

That's the manager's responsibility.
 
There was no elite manager available.

Ineos have always said they want to unearth diamonds. Just to be clear RVN led PSV to second, a cup and a shield. He left with one game to go with a win percentage of 62%.
He chose to leave due to insufficient support within the club. This isn’t too different to Slot except Slott won the league.


This is his coaching philosophy.

"I love the game, and I love a certain way of playing. At Manchester United, Sir Alex was always pushing us forward. Look forward, play forward, get crosses in, shoot on target. As a player, I loved the way that made me feel. I wanted to play like that, and I want to transmit that same feeling to my teams, to my players."

I want ETH to shock us all and succeed, but I’m also happy to give RVN the season if that can’t happen.

This is an extremely generous spin on a season in which RVN was criticised for failing to implement a coherent style of play, criticised for an overly reactive approach tactically, criticised for underperforming on the resources available to him, criticised for failing to win the title in a season in which Ajax were very poor, criticised for disappointing in Europe, and ultimately reported to have lost the dressing room by the end of his time there.

PSV fans were generally unhappy with the job he did as manager for them, so I have no idea why anyone would think he'd be a suitable manager at our much higher level.
 
This is an extremely generous spin on a season in which RVN was criticised for failing to implement a coherent style of play, criticised for an overly reactive approach tactically, criticised for underperforming on the resources available to him, criticised for failing to win the title in a season in which Ajax were very poor, criticised for disappointing in Europe, and ultimately reported to have lost the dressing room by the end of his time there.

PSV fans were generally unhappy with the job he did as manager for them, so I have no idea why anyone would think he'd be a suitable manager at our much higher level.
His resume is even poorer than Ole’s who won titles with Molde and had them quite competitive in Europe given the resources.
 
Less expectation than not passing the ball straight to the opposition? Because that's the bar for that position right now.

Or is he lowering expectations the same way he's lowered it for himself? After all, there are people here saying we bossed Coventry to a penalty shootout win!
Not sure what you’re on about here. I just replied to weird take on another post explaining that there is another side of every story (and too that nonsense of him not wanting to play Amad). Not sure how is it possible that you know better if player is ready than coaching stuff at the club.
 
I saw these comments as Ten Hag's way of justifying not playing the lad. He wasn't wanting him so he'll be used like Amad - if he absolutely has to.
Amad had bad luck with injuries. As soon as he started performing, he was getting picked. He started over Garnacho ffs.

When De Ligt was fit, he was picked over Maguire.

When Ugarte has had a few weeks in training, he‘ll play.
 
Like Thomas Frank said last season, they make their first three passes on the turnover and they know they've got big opportunities against us. That's still the case now. Our press is easily bypassed, most teams find a way out through width against us. On top of that, there's always countless options passing through the lines. I've yet to see any team really resort to going long against us, and the few times they have (Palace last season) they were practically through on goal. Any team that is well coached will give us problems.
All true. But, if executed right, it works. Our press needs to improve and we have to win the second balls.

The game against Brentford was such an abysmal performance that no tactics would have saved us.

At this point all teams in the PL are well coached. If you perform sub par, they can hurt you.

In the end if 10Hag can‘t get it to work, he‘ll be gone.
 
Not sure what you’re on about here. I just replied to weird take on another post explaining that there is another side of every story (and too that nonsense of him not wanting to play Amad). Not sure how is it possible that you know better if player is ready than coaching stuff at the club.
Well, obviously it is the coaching staff who know whether a player is ready to play. No one disputes that.

However, your hypothesis (or, as you say "another angle") that one of the objectives of these comments from ETH is to lower fan expectations on Ugarte is based on nothing but your imagination.

As you say, not sure how is it possible that you know what is going on in ETH's mind anymore than the poster you were responding to!
 
I thought Bild Sport was pretty OK.

Also, what's this Norman Bates/psychopath stuff all about?

I would say Kicker is quite reliable, Bild and their stepchild SportBild are just a toilet bowl.

The Norman Bates/sociopath stuff started during his tenure in Dortmund. His reaction to the bus bombing, his awkwardness, social ineptitude, press conferences, his venomous dead eyes...he just oozes hatred for all life.

The Conte incident. In that moment you saw the Ted Bundy in him, an explosion of uncontrollable anger, in the blink of an eye.

He looks like Ed Gein, too. Norman Bates is based on Ed Gein, so that's where that comes from.

I read on this forum that Peppy Pep is a bit deranged. I rather think that Pep is a poet, writing bizarre stuff to himself, sitting at home, trying to invoke the universe. He is harmless. Pep lives in a different world.

Tuchel lives in this world and wants to see it burned to the ground. The type of person that reads Wasp Factory, then cries and says "that's me...I am not alone". Madness.
 
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Ugarte playing minutes for Uruguay when TH says he's not fit has the makings of a disaster.

We shouldn't have been letting ugarte go. Not when there's a chance of him getting an injury and fecking us even more.
 
All true. But, if executed right, it works. Our press needs to improve and we have to win the second balls.

The game against Brentford was such an abysmal performance that no tactics would have saved us.

At this point all teams in the PL are well coached. If you perform sub par, they can hurt you.

In the end if 10Hag can‘t get it to work, he‘ll be gone.
You don’t have to be anything like well coached to beat us. Basic semblance has us in pieces time and again; well coached teams destroy us.
 
Ugarte playing minutes for Uruguay when TH says he's not fit has the makings of a disaster.

We shouldn't have been letting ugarte go. Not when there's a chance of him getting an injury and fecking us even more.
Letting him go and actually playing benefits us, as long as he doesn’t get injured, obviously. Much rather he be getting match practice than training back at carrington.
 
Well, obviously it is the coaching staff who know whether a player is ready to play. No one disputes that.

However, your hypothesis (or, as you say "another angle") that one of the objectives of these comments from ETH is to lower fan expectations on Ugarte is based on nothing but your imagination.

As you say, not sure how is it possible that you know what is going on in ETH's mind anymore than the poster you were responding to!
I don’t understand why you’re attacking me. My goal was to do exactly what you are writing. Which is showing that there could be another angle. I never said that is the correct one and I’m right about that. I’m really not sure why you’ve come up with your comments to my original post. I don’t see them relevant to what I wanted to expres so perhaps let’s not continue this further.
 
I'm positive that if people could change their vote on this poll, a 1-0 scrappy win vs Southampton would shift it by like 20% in ETH's favour.

Thank feck the option isn't available to change your vote.
 
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Having calmed down after the game and after rewatching the match. I feel sorry for our midfield. The setup, tactics were soo wrong. Bruno was no where near the midfield all game, it was basically 3 vs 2 all match in the middle. I agree that Casemiro made poor passes which led to chances, but even then we were too easy to play all game and in second half Liverpool basically took it easy but still had a Sobozli chance where he messed up in front of goal by taking too many touches and then Salah put it above the bar from 10 yards out.

Casemiro's mistakes has kind of given him a way out, but he needs to realize and change his suicidal tactics of allowing both FBs to go forward same time and leaving two CBs and Cas as three players with no one close by, playing midfielders so far away from each other with Bruno basically playing as a second striker.

He should be playing three midfielders all close to each other, giving them passing options, plus as Pep once said he prefers midfielders passing 5 yards instead of 15, because with 5 yards, even if you mess up a pass, the players can quickly swamp you and take the ball away, whereas for longer passes the recipient is taken out of the play completely. He does not have the tactical nous to understand this simple fact.

Lastly taking Amad out and Garnacho was also another blunder, which also made Mazouri toothless and Garnacho could not even control the ball and was bullied all game, let alone combine with FB.

I was ETH out last season, but sort of continued with backed him this season with new coaching team and new players, it appears to have no impact whatsoever. The slight silver lining is our team has improved overall and has good depth in defense and attack. Could do with another CM for replacement with Mainoo, except that we are in very good shape, so whoever we choose as a new manager will have a good squad to mould into his style of play and could get far better results.
You rewatched the match and somehow missed Bruno strolling about when they scored their second goal when he could have easily followed Diaz into the box. That’s the type of thing that will get Ten Hag sacked as it’s his job to put a stop to it and it’s not just the last match and not just Bruno.
 
I would say Kicker is quite reliable, Bild and their stepchild SportBild are just a toilet bowl.

The Norman Bates/sociopath stuff started during his tenure in Dortmund. His reaction to the bus bombing, his awkwardness, social ineptitude, press conferences, his venomous dead eyes...he just oozes hatred for all life.

The Conte incident. In that moment you saw the Ted Bundy in him, an explosion of uncontrollable anger, in the blink of an eye.

He looks like Ed Gein, too. Norman Bates is based on Ed Gein, so that's where that comes from.

I read on this forum that Peppy Pep is a bit deranged. I rather think that Pep is a poet, writing bizarre stuff to himself, sitting at home, trying to invoke the universe. He is harmless. Pep lives in a different world.

Tuchel lives in this world and wants to see it burned to the ground. The type of person that reads Wasp Factory, then cries and says "that's me...I am not alone". Madness.

:lol::lol:
 
Why do some people here think that ETH didnt want Ugarte? Hes very similar to Edson Alvarez at Ajax: great at breaking attack, crap at anything else. The reason why Baldy didnt play him against Pool is because the club failed to register him for that match, nothing else. He'll play him against Soton from the start i'm convinced about it.
 
Why do some people here think that ETH didnt want Ugarte? Hes very similar to Edson Alvarez at Ajax: great at breaking attack, crap at anything else. The reason why Baldy didnt play him against Pool is because the club failed to register him for that match, nothing else. He'll play him against Soton from the start i'm convinced about it.
100% factually incorrect.
 
I don't think it's going to happen, but if we come back from the international break and start putting together a run of results and performances that ultimately see us qualify for the CL off the back of a good season, I'm not going to call for his head in the summer, because that would be insane.

Still would unless he could implement the INEOS style of play which I would doubt very much
 
Why do some people here think that ETH didnt want Ugarte? Hes very similar to Edson Alvarez at Ajax: great at breaking attack, crap at anything else. The reason why Baldy didnt play him against Pool is because the club failed to register him for that match, nothing else. He'll play him against Soton from the start i'm convinced about it.
Seems like you don’t know Ugarte either so why talk like you do?
 
The idea that INEOS interviewed people but thought he was the best candidate still is laughable. As though it's an interview process like we go through, where they have no idea who we are, instead of our every move being plastered on SSN every day, or they watch them carrying out their job, live on TV, twice a week.

INEOS don't interview anybody if they think he's the right guy to begin with. The fact we seemingly couldn't convince/ come to an agreement with those we interviewed is what saved him. They don't waste their time interviewing people that we all know all about, if they don't think they're up to the job. They likely couldn't agree on details like money, the setup, how transfers would be conducted etc. Not because they turned out to be worse candidates.

If I was to guess, they would have been happy with McKenna, Tuchel, De Zerbi, Frank etc, but opted for Tuchel. Hence why McKenna suddenly agreed to stay on at Ipswich. Then Tuchel throws a spanner in the works late on and we've nowhere to turn, so we extend ETHs deal by a year and put out some unconvincing soundbites about us being happy with him, convincing absolutely nobody in the process.

Think you have absolutely nailed what happened
 
Still would unless he could implement the INEOS style of play which I would doubt very much
This is my expectation or I'd be ten hag out too. My narrative was around the previous structure and injuries clouding where the root causes were. He's now got a better squad, had a good transfer window and proper support all around him.

Whilst I won't consider 3 games enough data, my expectation is to perform immediately with a style that looks like it's scalable to big honours. If he can't do it after all this then there's no point in continuing the process.
 
If I was to guess, they would have been happy with McKenna, Tuchel, De Zerbi, Frank etc, but opted for Tuchel. Hence why McKenna suddenly agreed to stay on at Ipswich. Then Tuchel throws a spanner in the works late on and we've nowhere to turn, so we extend ETHs deal by a year and put out some unconvincing soundbites about us being happy with him, convincing absolutely nobody in the process.
There's absolutely no way the whole control over transfers point was discussed at the last minute. I just can't believe that because it's one of the biggest factors to talk about when entertaining candidates.
 
A new manager failing is not a big deal, most managers fail. This is the unnecessary pressure that Ineos are putting themselves under, that they have to get the first appointment right and so they hurt the club by keeping a failure in place.

If you name Ruud as interim and he impresses enough to earn a permanent role then you negotiate a 2+1 deal, with the plus one being heavily dependable on tangilbles like CL qualification, trophies etc and you give him a basic salary, say 8m and the rest in incentives and insert the Moyes break clause so that you can sack him early and cheaply if it doesn't work out.

Are Ineos trying to tell us that if there is no elite manager available we will stick with a shit one? That's nonsense, this is still a big and attractive job and not every manager has to be the one to finally win us the title. We could get a transitional manager, give him a relatively breakable contract so that we can sack him if an Alonso or Inzargi becomes available. We can't allow the club to continue on this slide because someone thinks they must get it right on the first try.

Alonso would definitely be my top choice with Nagelsmann and Inzaghi making up top 3, hope INEOS keep Ruud on as strikers coach when Erik goes as feel he's not ready for this job yet
 
The idea that INEOS interviewed people but thought he was the best candidate still is laughable. As though it's an interview process like we go through, where they have no idea who we are, instead of our every move being plastered on SSN every day, or they watch them carrying out their job, live on TV, twice a week.

INEOS don't interview anybody if they think he's the right guy to begin with. The fact we seemingly couldn't convince/ come to an agreement with those we interviewed is what saved him. They don't waste their time interviewing people that we all know all about, if they don't think they're up to the job. They likely couldn't agree on details like money, the setup, how transfers would be conducted etc. Not because they turned out to be worse candidates.

If I was to guess, they would have been happy with McKenna, Tuchel, De Zerbi, Frank etc, but opted for Tuchel. Hence why McKenna suddenly agreed to stay on at Ipswich. Then Tuchel throws a spanner in the works late on and we've nowhere to turn, so we extend ETHs deal by a year and put out some unconvincing soundbites about us being happy with him, convincing absolutely nobody in the process.
Yep such a strange carry on. Saved by a last minute u-turn whatever it was. But one thing's for sure it wasn't that he was 'the best candidate'.
 
There’s more than enough reasons to criticize him within the general realm of factual reality, yet we continue to depart it to find more. Weird.
 
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