This basically ends the only 3 games in argument.
Erik ten Hag | 2024/25 | Sacked
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@stevoc did you claim that De Ligt and / Or Zirkzee were pushed for initially by ten hag?
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Except it isn't. The decision makers literally went out to interview for his replacements and couldn't land on anyone that fit. If they were so convinced by an FA cup win they wouldn't bother. Just like 3 games into a new campaign isn't a big sample size either.
I think the concern I have with a hard line "CL or sacked" approach is that we may well end up cutting our nose off to spite our face.
As I've said, I think it's essentially a redundant debate where Ten Hag is concerned, because I'm really not convinced he's got it in him to turn things around, but as I said, we could have a pretty good season, ranking among our best post-Fergie seasons, that includes a number of very good performances, and still miss out in top four.
Keep in mind we only got 60 points last season, and that we've only achieved 70 or more points four times since Fergie retired (14/15, 17/18, 20/21, 22/23), then consider that 70 points would not have been enough to finish top four in six of the post-Fergie seasons, or seven with a goal difference of lower than +25. There have been seasons where 74, 75 and even 78 points wouldn't have been enough.
I hope we do but yeah I don't see it either. We just don't score enough for a start.
You can read what I said and it still has nothing to do with the post you quoted.
Can you answer the question? And yes, it does.
I have answered it and no it does not.
You haven't. You just said "read what I said".
But, if do go by what you said, it appears true that you believed your own conspiracy theory over multiple (not just one) tier one reports.
Is this correct?
Ten Hag fluked a league cup (which is not really a major trophy these days) and scraped an FA cup win with some awful performances against lower league teams.
Man City were apparently suffering from hangovers in the final.
The longer ETH survives based on two spawny cup wins while being trash in every other competition, the longer the recovery will take.
If United somehow beat Southampton away, there will probably be another month or more of wasted games.
We are dying a slow death of a team with shite tactics
Man City were apparently suffering from hangovers in the final.
The longer ETH survives based on two spawny cup wins while being trash in every other competition, the longer the recovery will take.
If United somehow beat Southampton away, there will probably be another month or more of wasted games.
We are dying a slow death of a team with shite tactics
No it was the optics of sacking a manager who just beat PEP in a final that kept him, not that there wasn't anyone suitable to replace him.
The idea that INEOS interviewed people but thought he was the best candidate still is laughable. As though it's an interview process like we go through, where they have no idea who we are, instead of our every move being plastered on SSN every day, or they watch them carrying out their job, live on TV, twice a week.
INEOS don't interview anybody if they think he's the right guy to begin with. The fact we seemingly couldn't convince/ come to an agreement with those we interviewed is what saved him. They don't waste their time interviewing people that we all know all about, if they don't think they're up to the job. They likely couldn't agree on details like money, the setup, how transfers would be conducted etc. Not because they turned out to be worse candidates.
If I was to guess, they would have been happy with McKenna, Tuchel, De Zerbi, Frank etc, but opted for Tuchel. Hence why McKenna suddenly agreed to stay on at Ipswich. Then Tuchel throws a spanner in the works late on and we've nowhere to turn, so we extend ETHs deal by a year and put out some unconvincing soundbites about us being happy with him, convincing absolutely nobody in the process.
INEOS don't interview anybody if they think he's the right guy to begin with. The fact we seemingly couldn't convince/ come to an agreement with those we interviewed is what saved him. They don't waste their time interviewing people that we all know all about, if they don't think they're up to the job. They likely couldn't agree on details like money, the setup, how transfers would be conducted etc. Not because they turned out to be worse candidates.
If I was to guess, they would have been happy with McKenna, Tuchel, De Zerbi, Frank etc, but opted for Tuchel. Hence why McKenna suddenly agreed to stay on at Ipswich. Then Tuchel throws a spanner in the works late on and we've nowhere to turn, so we extend ETHs deal by a year and put out some unconvincing soundbites about us being happy with him, convincing absolutely nobody in the process.
Nothing is going to magically change.
The space in our team, end to end nature of games. Things like Collyer coming on the other day and bombing forward, vacating midfield... That's how he wants us to play.
It only ends one way.
The space in our team, end to end nature of games. Things like Collyer coming on the other day and bombing forward, vacating midfield... That's how he wants us to play.
It only ends one way.
In a way yes, because the poor performances have just continued. But really, the summer was the ideal time. They clearly weren't convinced by him and there wouldn't have been much resistance had he left. Everyone was expecting it. At best, they could have only had a slight hope he'd turn it round, and that's a big gamble for them. Myself and others said that, if we keep him and he continues into this season, then INEOS will have a bigger problem on their hands. Less options to turn to, another season wasted etc. And that's exactly where we are.
If they weren't convinced, they should have pulled the trigger and started with somebody else who would have at least had some leeway for 6 to 12 months. Even if they weren't the number one choice, it bought them time and the pressure around it all would have simmered down for a bit. In my opinion.
The part about Collyer bombing forward is right: if someone else stays back it should be ok.
The structure is way tighter than last season.
In attack we are pretty much playing
3 1 6. If the ball is lost, we have to press and force a long ball which should be won by our defenders. That way you can keep control and the pressure on.
We will see whether he achieves this more consistently or not, his job depends on it.
Biesla exposing baldy as a liar tonight, Ugarte starting for Uruguay
“If you see Manuel Ugarte, he didn't play so far in the season. Not one match minute. So he needs to build his fitness but that will take a couple of weeks, maybe even months"
“If you see Manuel Ugarte, he didn't play so far in the season. Not one match minute. So he needs to build his fitness but that will take a couple of weeks, maybe even months"
You're a wizard, Marcelo!
I saw these comments as Ten Hag's way of justifying not playing the lad. He wasn't wanting him so he'll be used like Amad - if he absolutely has to.
If you've been kicked in the balls about 38 times in the last year, but then there's a small holiday where your balls have been left kick free because the ball kicker has been under a bridge sniffing glue, then you shouldn't be allowed to turn around and say "Hey, he might have come back and immediately started kicking me in the balls again, but it's only been three weeks so let's see how this plays out for a little longer."
This guy is going to make Mainoo burn out before Christmas and all we'll have to show for it is mid table and a shit load of headaches.
This guy is going to make Mainoo burn out before Christmas and all we'll have to show for it is mid table and a shit load of headaches.
Ya but now that Bielsa thinks he's fit enough to start world cup qualifying matches it's gonna be a bad look for ten hag in-regards to the board if we come back from the break and Casemiro is still starting and having nightmares and the guy they want in MF is sat on the bench or not even on it.
Of course he'll play him when Casemiro and Collyer are the alternatives. He'd be mental not to, but then again maybe he is.
I suspect he’s probably got at least 6 more league matches, which takes us up to end October. It’s not a straightforward run with 4 away matches (Southampton, Palace, Villa and West Ham) and 2 home (Spurs and Brentford).
Last season, we took 7 points out of 15 in the corresponding fixtures against the teams who were in the division. I think if we repeat that, even with a win over Southampton, I don’t think that will be enough (although of course the performances will also play a role). I’d say 12/18 is required for him to survive to November.
Last season, we took 7 points out of 15 in the corresponding fixtures against the teams who were in the division. I think if we repeat that, even with a win over Southampton, I don’t think that will be enough (although of course the performances will also play a role). I’d say 12/18 is required for him to survive to November.
The negativity on here is understandable but I'm not a fan of witch hunts. Ugarte will need time to get used to how ETH wants to play, especially in the DM role where he's expected to help in the build-up. Also, SA football outside of the big countries is nowhere near as physically intense as playing in the PL.
If anything we should be delighted that he's getting (hopefully) full preseason minutes with Uruguay. I just hope he isn't injured.
If anything we should be delighted that he's getting (hopefully) full preseason minutes with Uruguay. I just hope he isn't injured.
Yeah, agree. Casemiro in his first season was kept on the bench initially with McTominay starting which annoyed a lot of people but it was to help Casemiro's fitness.
No, you didn't. You replied to a post. You didn't answer a question. I think you purposely dodging a fair question shows where you stand, cheers.
OK it was all a ruse. They never were intending to replace him in the summer because they were totally head over heels with him.
Christ
Not really. International managers have their own agendas and objectives and don't necessarily care - or have to - about mid to long term fallout, which often leaves clubs furious as their star turns return impaired and in need of time to recover. There's also the issue of following differing medical advice, which is why we sometimes see clubs and international team clashes and/or friction/animosity built up over time, at which point silly tug of war games and feigned injured players being withdrawn from duty by their clubs, enters the fray.
There's also the matter of Ugarte having to learn our, heh, patterns of play and automatisms before the manager is certain the player can be trusted. A laughable prose, but still a matter of fact.
Bielsa's interests and ten Hag's don't have to align. In an ideal world they both get a fit and firing player, but when push comes to shove, especially when something of worth is at stake, those club-country issues can be fraught.
Yeah if those two are off the shortlist it's worrying
I replied to your question. We had this conversation a few days ago which went nowhere, now you want to rehash it for some reason.
Perhaps if you didn't consistently misinterpret and/or misrepresent what people say they'd be more willing to converse.
It's genuinely odd that such an innocuous post has upset you so much that days later you are still looking to go over it again. It's veering into the feud territory and is off topic so let's move on.
This is just completely made up, especially the Amad part. If it was true he would've either loaned / sold him, or kept him on the bench every game this season as well, as well as the latter stages of last season.
There's a lot you can already bash ETH with, there's no need to make up things.
How did he fluke it? What happened that made it a fluke? It was just a typical cup run with victory at the end, unles I'm misremembering.
We rode our luck to a ridiculous degree in the FA Cup win though.
Playing 3-1-6 in attack, you'd think we'd be free scoring but yet have 2 goals in 3 games and conceded 5. Let's even put aside the shape in midfield and the gaps, going forward we have no discernible pattern. It's easy to defend against us and once things don't go our way, we start spamming long balls. I watched Leverkusen v Leipzig the other day and couldn't quite believe the ease at which both teams got the ball into dangerous areas and created chances. It looks so laborious and hard for us to do the same.
No, you actually didn't answer my questions even there. You wouldn't answer it now to close it off either. And it was quite related to the debate today as well.
I agree one tier one source can get things wrong or be tilted the wrong way. I don't agree that there's a good chance multiple are wrong especially when it's against the biased narrative of a particular fan who's just pissed off by Dutch signings.
It doesn't matter, we can move on. I've said what I had to say on the matter now and it was related to the debate you had today, if you read the post.
I think Ineos know exactly what they are doing.
They had limited options on an ETH replacement. He won the cup so that gave the excise to buy time.
-Tuchel either didn’t want it or they couldn’t agree.
-They knew the fans didn’t want Southgate or Potter.
-They didn’t fancy Poch for some unknown reason.
They clearly knew they didn’t have full ETH confidence so they went to plan B.
Plan B
Get the right structures in place, buy in the priority positions the players they wanted. Reduce the wage bill, and get dead wood out the squad.
Give ETH a chance and if he’s successful great if not simply remove him and give it to RVN.
Had they brought RVN in the summer we’d have gone nuts, as would the press, plus it would be Inoes man. They can bring him in now and give him the season if he does amazing they can keep him and if not they can get their choice of coach, who’ll inherit a decent squad.
I think this is actually a great plan.
They had limited options on an ETH replacement. He won the cup so that gave the excise to buy time.
-Tuchel either didn’t want it or they couldn’t agree.
-They knew the fans didn’t want Southgate or Potter.
-They didn’t fancy Poch for some unknown reason.
They clearly knew they didn’t have full ETH confidence so they went to plan B.
Plan B
Get the right structures in place, buy in the priority positions the players they wanted. Reduce the wage bill, and get dead wood out the squad.
Give ETH a chance and if he’s successful great if not simply remove him and give it to RVN.
Had they brought RVN in the summer we’d have gone nuts, as would the press, plus it would be Inoes man. They can bring him in now and give him the season if he does amazing they can keep him and if not they can get their choice of coach, who’ll inherit a decent squad.
I think this is actually a great plan.
Giving it to RVN is a terrible plan.
Ruud is more unqualified than Ole was, I am genuinely baffled by the obsession with seeing him as our manager right now. He might do good in a bounce period, but beyond that? Total risk.
How is Ruud more unqualified?
He's got less managerial experience than Ole? At least a decent level, he's been doing it awhile, but its very early days for him being involved in a high standard of coaching.
If a good plan is to know the manager you have kept on will probably continue to fail, so you have hired RVN that no one would have wanted to replace him in the summer to step in when Ten Hag finally goes, so we can then watch him not be good enough for a few months, before they suddenly reveal an elite mystery manager in the summer who no one can think of now, then I agree with you.
And the priority players can just have been Yoro and Ugarte then, as the Dutch link with the other three is not some sort of bizzare coincidence no matter what Ten Hag says.
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