Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[nickm]

Would say that i am disappointed with his management since feb but trust him to get the players he wants and play some defining football next season. But again that hinges on how the sale goes and if we finish in the top 4 which is looking unlikely as Liverpool are in the front seat, a team who apparently has had a very bad season and might scrape to the top 4 over United who apparently is having a good season.

Well I dunno we had our first choice central defence out, our first choice midfield out, no striker, impact sub injured, we've been playing 2x a week. And it's caught up with us. And it's still in our hands, we're still in the mix. Blips were always going to happen, now buckle up all this is part of the fun. The team's had a short rest, they have a clear target, key players are back and I think we're fine for top 4.

 

[b82REZ]

ha not sure you can say that then hype up a disaster place like chelsea ha. we have leech owners who dont want to leave, and several big holes in the squad/complete lack of squad depth in majority of our positions and desperately need a great transfer window. I hope EtH gets the support he needs feel like we finally have a proper manager. The way he handled ronaldo and maguire has been spot on for me and shows he has a spine

I mean you're acting like one bad season means you're forever consigned to mid table. If that were the case there was no hope for us after last season when we had a similar season to Chelsea this year.

We will make signings, regardless of the ownership. Obviously it'd be better for all of us if we had clarity on the ownership but there will be a budget and you'd expect there will be money raised from sales.

Problem is people got excited when the sale process started thinking Uncle Jassim or Jim were going to bankroll a massive window. That'll never happen due to FFP. I don't buy the protracted sale will have a massively positive or negative impact on our window.

 

[JPRouve]

how and where did i say anything like that? And how does one bad younger signing (who was a huge money transfer and hyped youngster at that) mean we should never do it? Idk you lost me man. If anything we need to just stay away from dortmund players because they clearly get lost in translation here. Im merely saying we have been signing a lot of older players it seems to be important people for us. Cant keep relying on big money signings overall, but double risky when we keep also dipping into older players. Id just want signings like caicedo age wise and less like case/varane age wise. Not saying we constantly spend 100 million on sub 20 year old players. If anything we need to be doing more cheap youngster deals and go for quantity on that to hope that some hit.

We have signed even more young players to be important and they almost all either failed for various reasons or required way more than 2 or 3 years to be good. You are misrepresenting our signings if you think that we signed a lot of older players.

 

[FerociousCorgis]

We have signed even more young players to be important and they almost all either failed for various reasons or required way more than 2 or 3 years to be good. You are misrepresenting our signings if you think that we signed a lot of older players.

who have been our young players weve spent big on to be important? Feel like sancho was prob one of our few. I mean lukaku was prob youngish when we got him, same with pogba when coming back. but other than that i dont really recall too many other recent examples of big plus young (meaning sub 21 lets say). Antony i guess close to that.

Older players feel like come easier considering generally big names. Case/eriksen/varane most recently being the obvious ones. Sanchez/ibra/ronaldo/cavani type signings as well of older players coming in past their prime.
Idk maybe just been more a frustration with a lack of vision from us. From window to window in the past we didnt seem to have a philosophy to build on with our signings.

 

[JPRouve]

who have been our young players weve spent big on to be important? Feel like sancho was prob one of our few. I mean lukaku was prob youngish when we got him, same with pogba when coming back. but other than that i dont really recall too many other recent examples of big plus young (meaning sub 21 lets say). Antony i guess close to that.

Older players feel like come easier considering generally big names. Case/eriksen/varane most recently being the obvious ones. Sanchez/ibra/ronaldo/cavani type signings as well of older players coming in past their prime.
Idk maybe just been more a frustration with a lack of vision from us. From window to window in the past we didnt seem to have a philosophy to build on with our signings.

You think that 23 years old is youngish and not young?

Otherwise Wan Bissaka, Antony, Shaw, Sancho, Lindelof, Bailly, Martial, Memphis, Bruno, Pogba or Martinez. I should mention a 26 years old Di Maria but I guess that he was older than dirt.

 

[FerociousCorgis]

You think that 23 years old is youngish and not young?

Otherwise Wan Bissaka, Antony, Shaw, Sancho, Lindelof, Bailly, Martial, Memphis, Bruno, Pogba or Martinez. I should mention a 26 years old Di Maria but I guess that he was older than dirt.

well in the context of the discussion we were talking about players like sancho. So there are 3 tiers of age in my opinion, young (those sub 20 prob) middle (21 to like 27ish) then older (28 plus). even then plenty of nuance when you consider some positions dont matter on age like GK or that some age diff. Rooney at 30 much different than ronaldo at 30.
Even then you can look at our past transfer windows and see there is just no rhyme or reason to our signing paths. We havent built on any philosophy. Hopefully new ownership comes in and with EtH we can finally do something of that nature.

 

[JPRouve]

well in the context of the discussion we were talking about players like sancho. So there are 3 tiers of age in my opinion, young (those sub 20 prob) middle (21 to like 27ish) then older (28 plus). even then plenty of nuance when you consider some positions dont matter on age like GK or that some age diff. Rooney at 30 much different than ronaldo at 30.
Even then you can look at our past transfer windows and see there is just no rhyme or reason to our signing paths. We havent built on any philosophy. Hopefully new ownership comes in and with EtH we can finally do something of that nature.

No one outside of "seller" clubs build a philosophy based on age.

 

[FerociousCorgis]

No one outside of "seller" clubs build a philosophy based on age.

yeah if im honest im prob just more frustrated by the overall lack of strategy our club has had with our transfers for a long time now. With the amount of money spent a competent transfer/scouting network that had a good philosophy couldve prob overcome these leeches a bit better.

 

[gajender]

well in the context of the discussion we were talking about players like sancho. So there are 3 tiers of age in my opinion, young (those sub 20 prob) middle (21 to like 27ish) then older (28 plus). even then plenty of nuance when you consider some positions dont matter on age like GK or that some age diff. Rooney at 30 much different than ronaldo at 30.
Even then you can look at our past transfer windows and see there is just no rhyme or reason to our signing paths. We havent built on any philosophy. Hopefully new ownership comes in and with EtH we can finally do something of that nature.

That may be true but the age profile of players bought in even during that period has been good just like everything in life hindsight is always 20/20 .

 

[FerociousCorgis]

That may be true but the age profile of players bought in even during that period has been good just like everything in life hindsight is always 20/20 .

yeah when i went thru and looked i saw that honestly the age profile was better than i thought. Just more of the lack of leadership/vision as well as hugely overpaying multple times.

 

[OmarUnited4ever]

The likes of Garnacho, Shaw, Martinez, Antony, Rashford, Sancho, Bruno could easily be on a title challenging team. But the most important thing is that you are looking too much forward 2 or 3 years is a long time in Football, in order to be a challenging team in 2 or 3 years we need to be good now, we need to improve every summer and you do that with a mix of players that fit your need, you don't do that exclusively with potential.

The question that people need to ask themselves when they focus too much on age, unless the player is at the required level today what makes you believe that he will reach that level in 2 or 3 years? That's why you need to think about today and tomorrow, you need players that are good today because with the right players you could challenge today and you also need to think about tomorrow. Both timelines should work in conjunction.

In the case of Kane from an age and level he would near perfect for us, he is ready made and we could plan with him for the next 3-4 years as a starter and bring a younger backup/replacement within that timeframe. Now the reason I have argued that I would prefer a younger and cheaper player is simply because without a striker this season we have managed to settled in the top 4-5, a good but not great player should see us be even better and spending less for that position this summer could maybe allow us to improve several other positions instead of focusing on the striker. But that's riskier than bringing someone as good as Kane.

Well Said! and the bolded is the is the crux of it really, you can't look at 2025/2026 when you are not even good in 2023/2024, Madrid bring in the likes of Tchouameni but they also bring in Rudiger too, both are needed, you need the experienced & battle tested as well as the young talent, it is just that you need to have the right balance and mix of the two.

 

[UpWithRivers]

I don't understand how you come to all these conclusions. I said squad building is a gradual process; why would all these players have to be shifted ASAP? And why would all of them not fit Ten Hag's style? He has clear principles of play, but has changed his specific team set-up significantly over the years to accommodate the players at this disposal. Specifically, I have no idea why you think Rashford, Bruno, and Garnacho would have to be shifted; and obviously Varane and Casemiro, while not being long-term solutions, are clear starters this year. Finally, why are you talking about 6th places without cups? This has clearly been a sub-standard season and United are on track to finish 4th with at least one cup.

As I said, I just don't understand how you get from my post to yours here.

I disagree with your gradual process premise because I just dont see how thats possible. We have spent most of the season playing counter attacking football and trying to hit Rashford asap on the turnover. So what next? We get a striker and try play Rashford more centrally behind the striker? We play more build up football? We half transition? Even if we manage to play half Ten Haag and Half counter attacking football all that would do is continually reduce Rashfords impact. He will go from 30 goals, to 20 to 10 or something and at the same time be a detriment to the transition of the new style. And all that will do is reduce what transfer fee we can get for him. Either a player is a Ten Haag player or hes not. If not I cant for the life of me see why we would keep hold of them. PSG might give us 130-150 mill if the sell Neymar. In 3 years who knows.
And I say 6th place and no cups because we managed one cup and 4th place (hopefully) by playing counter attack football to Rashford. If we change shape and players we might have another 6th place before it comes good

 

[Lights Out]

Weird fact - probably not the right thread - but I’ve just realised the 99 treble winning team won 22 games in the league. This season we have won 20 with 3 games remaining.

I’m not sure what that tells you but it’s amazing to think this team could beat that.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

Weird fact - probably not the right thread - but I’ve just realised the 99 treble winning team won 22 games in the league. This season we have won 20 with 3 games remaining.

I’m not sure what that tells you but it’s amazing to think this team could beat that.

Not surprising. The league back then was regularly won with under 80 points. Nowadays even 90 won't guarantee you the title.

 

[Witchking]

Well I dunno we had our first choice central defence out, our first choice midfield out, no striker, impact sub injured, we've been playing 2x a week. And it's caught up with us. And it's still in our hands, we're still in the mix. Blips were always going to happen, now buckle up all this is part of the fun. The team's had a short rest, they have a clear target, key players are back and I think we're fine for top 4.

Absolutely hope so man. A top 4 with fa cup would be a great finish to a bad last quarter. Yeah, injuries absolutely hampered us. But the draw vs Spurs, Loss to Brighton and West Ham were bad. Just hope we win the next 2 and rest for Fulham.

 

[DJ_21]

Weird fact - probably not the right thread - but I’ve just realised the 99 treble winning team won 22 games in the league. This season we have won 20 with 3 games remaining.

I’m not sure what that tells you but it’s amazing to think this team could beat that.

Ye but city under guardiola have hit new heights. They’re so dominant that Liverpool got over 90 pts twice and still missed out on the league by a point.

 

[Andycoleno9]

You think that 23 years old is youngish and not young?

Otherwise Wan Bissaka, Antony, Shaw, Sancho, Lindelof, Bailly, Martial, Memphis, Bruno, Pogba or Martinez. I should mention a 26 years old Di Maria but I guess that he was older than dirt.

Football wise of course, 21 is still young or youngish. Above that you have a player who is in first team football 4 years at least. I don't label those players as young anymore.

 

[JPRouve]

Football wise of course, 21 is still young or youngish. Above that you have a player who is in first team football 4 years at least. I don't label those players as young anymore.

A 23 years old player hasn't entered his prime and hasn't even reached the half point of his career. By any sensible metric, he is young. Also as an example the average age in the PL is around 26 years old, there is no logic in not acknowledging that someone that is several years under the average age is young.

 

[Cheimoon]

I disagree with your gradual process premise because I just dont see how thats possible. We have spent most of the season playing counter attacking football and trying to hit Rashford asap on the turnover. So what next? We get a striker and try play Rashford more centrally behind the striker? We play more build up football? We half transition? Even if we manage to play half Ten Haag and Half counter attacking football all that would do is continually reduce Rashfords impact. He will go from 30 goals, to 20 to 10 or something and at the same time be a detriment to the transition of the new style. And all that will do is reduce what transfer fee we can get for him. Either a player is a Ten Haag player or hes not. If not I cant for the life of me see why we would keep hold of them. PSG might give us 130-150 mill if the sell Neymar. In 3 years who knows.
And I say 6th place and no cups because we managed one cup and 4th place (hopefully) by playing counter attack football to Rashford. If we change shape and players we might have another 6th place before it comes good

Others could speak to this better, but I think United have not been set up as a counter-attacking team for most of the season, and that you are further along in your transition to a dominant pressing team - and in effect already somewhere halfway between various styles, which has created some of the awkwardness and issues this year (and points lost). If that's correct, then your entire concern here is actually unfounded; and you might rather say that the bad season you fear isn't coming up, but that it's this one right now.

 

[el3mel]

Most players nowadays start first team football from age 17-18 years old. 22 and 23 isn't a youngster anymore. Didn't reach his full potential, sure, but by this age he is an established player with known strengths and weaknesses.

A major point to consider is that not every skill gets improved by just getting older. An awful dribbler at 21 or 22 isn't going to miraculously become good by
26 or 27. He might not become as awful as he used to be but most probably will never become a good dribbler.

 

[NLunited]

Well Said! and the bolded is the is the crux of it really, you can't look at 2025/2026 when you are not even good in 2023/2024, Madrid bring in the likes of Tchouameni but they also bring in Rudiger too, both are needed, you need the experienced & battle tested as well as the young talent, it is just that you need to have the right balance and mix of the two.

Exactly! Like bringing in Casemiro and Antony! Eriksen and Malacia!

 

[Stacks]

Erik, if you stop Pep completing the treble you'll go down in United folklore

 

[Stacks]

Most players nowadays start first team football from age 17-18 years old. 22 and 23 isn't a youngster anymore. Didn't reach his full potential, sure, but by this age he is an established player with known strengths and weaknesses.

A major point to consider is that not every skill gets improved by just getting older. An awful dribbler at 21 or 22 isn't going to miraculously become good by
26 or 27. He might not become as awful as he used to be but most probably will never become a good dribbler.

You'll see consistently in my post that I care little about the age of a player. Its how many first team appearances they have under their belts. I recall when commentating, someone called Rashford a young player and Jose said he's not young, there's the young, and then there's the YOUNG, alluding to the fact Rashford was into like his 6th season or something, which I agree.

 

[OmarUnited4ever]

Most players nowadays start first team football from age 17-18 years old. 22 and 23 isn't a youngster anymore. Didn't reach his full potential, sure, but by this age he is an established player with known strengths and weaknesses.

A major point to consider is that not every skill gets improved by just getting older. An awful dribbler at 21 or 22 isn't going to miraculously become good by
26 or 27. He might not become as awful as he used to be but most probably will never become a good dribbler.

I guess what you mean by established as in he has enough appearances under his belt so we can know what strengths/weaknesses such player has.

Someone like Rashford for example amassed more than 100 appearances for Manchester United before he reached the age of 20, so by 22-23, he was fully established with known strengths and weaknesses and a manager should know how to fully utilise someone like him, Garnacho for example has 35 apps for now and he is only 18, by the time he is 22/23, he will have most likely amassed 150+ apps and we will know what kind of player he will become, while someone like Pellistri does not even have 50 appearances at the top level until now and he is already 21, we do not yet how good he is though I admit it does not look good for him if he doesn't get the needed playing time next season, so yes maybe the term youngster should be reserved to those below 20, but 22/23 is still young enough to develop and be patient with if there is a potential of course, and the hope is by 25, said talent should either realize most of their potential or remain not good enough be let go.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

Weird fact - probably not the right thread - but I’ve just realised the 99 treble winning team won 22 games in the league. This season we have won 20 with 3 games remaining.

I’m not sure what that tells you but it’s amazing to think this team could beat that.

It's a pointless comparison. The league was totally different. In 17/18 under Mourinho we had more points than the treble season. It means feck all.

 

[Marwood]

Weird fact - probably not the right thread - but I’ve just realised the 99 treble winning team won 22 games in the league. This season we have won 20 with 3 games remaining.

I’m not sure what that tells you but it’s amazing to think this team could beat that.

It's not that weird. We had a slow start that season. Which in itself wasn't surprising because the season before was a "poor" one.

But once the new signings, Yorke and Stam, really clicked into gear we went on a great run. January on we didn't lose did we?

 

[sugar_kane]

He’s going to piss off a lot of our own fans when he tries to go toe to toe with City in the final and we get pummelled.

I hope next season he figures out how to play a more pragmatic style when required, it’s the main reason why we’ve been hammered in certain games this season.

It’s admirable that he wants to stick to his principles but we need to be able to switch it up at times to nick a result, at least until we have a better squad.

 

[NLunited]

He’s going to piss off a lot of our own fans when he tries to go toe to toe with City in the final and we get pummelled.

I hope next season he figures out how to play a more pragmatic style when required, it’s the main reason why we’ve been hammered in certain games this season.

It’s admirable that he wants to stick to his principles but we need to be able to switch it up at times to nick a result, at least until we have a better squad.

We have been very pragmatic this season, from game three on in PL. That is not the issue.

We have been pummeled when we have not been sharp enough, worked hard enough or players stopped doing their jobs.

Madrid was pragmatic and got pummeled anyway because they didn‘t bring enough belief and did not work hard enough. City could play around and through them unchallenged mostly.

If we match or exceed the intensity of the other team to begin with, then we have a chance against City.

They are the better team right now, but I hope we give them a challenge. They give plenty of space away. If we are at our best, we should be able to exploit them.

 

[Stacks]

He’s going to piss off a lot of our own fans when he tries to go toe to toe with City in the final and we get pummelled.

I hope next season he figures out how to play a more pragmatic style when required, it’s the main reason why we’ve been hammered in certain games this season.

It’s admirable that he wants to stick to his principles but we need to be able to switch it up at times to nick a result, at least until we have a better squad.

to be honest I'd respect it

 

[amolbhatia50k]

to be honest I'd respect it

He won’t as it would cost us

 

[DomesticTadpole]

yeah idk dont see it personally. They can easily just tweak in a couple signings and still be competing probs. City are just a machine though and can see them not competing like this year. Highly doubt they have that huge lead again. Hilarious they freaking choked it away so hard and fast haha. But if i had to guess between who finishes higher next season id bank on them, if only because feel like ownership gonna screw over our window for EtH.

It will also be about form, players might be at their peak of form this season. It will be if they can recreate that next season. They don't want to be like Liverpool who had terrible drops in form of some vital players, with some injuries on top of it, then are having to show amazing form at the end of the season hoping to get in the Top 4.

 

[b82REZ]

He’s going to piss off a lot of our own fans when he tries to go toe to toe with City in the final and we get pummelled.

I hope next season he figures out how to play a more pragmatic style when required, it’s the main reason why we’ve been hammered in certain games this season.

It’s admirable that he wants to stick to his principles but we need to be able to switch it up at times to nick a result, at least until we have a better squad.

What the feck are you on about? He was very pragmatic against them at OT and we won.

 

[Jev]

He’s going to piss off a lot of our own fans when he tries to go toe to toe with City in the final and we get pummelled.

I hope next season he figures out how to play a more pragmatic style when required, it’s the main reason why we’ve been hammered in certain games this season.

It’s admirable that he wants to stick to his principles but we need to be able to switch it up at times to nick a result, at least until we have a better squad.

Don't agree with that at all. If anything we've been way too cautious and defensive in big/away games.

 

[cyberman]

He’s going to piss off a lot of our own fans when he tries to go toe to toe with City in the final and we get pummelled.

I hope next season he figures out how to play a more pragmatic style when required, it’s the main reason why we’ve been hammered in certain games this season.

It’s admirable that he wants to stick to his principles but we need to be able to switch it up at times to nick a result, at least until we have a better squad.

Love the fact you’re shitting on him for something he hasn’t even done

 

[mav_9me]

to be honest I'd respect it

Finals are for winning. I don't care how we play as long as we win. ETH already went pragmatic and defensive against Newcastle in one final. See him doing the same against City. But there is a balance. Don't need to be camped in our box.

 

[sugar_kane]

Love the fact you’re shitting on him for something he hasn’t even done

If it came across as shitting on him that wasn’t intended, I’m a big fan of what he has done so far.

I had a lot of responses disagreeing with me about him not being pragmatic but I honestly don’t see it, I think he is set on playing his style and credit to him for it, but the rank humiliations we’ve had against certain teams set us back in terms of our progress by destroying our fragile confidence. I’d honestly be fine if he parked the bus against city and tried to hit them on the counter.

Maybe I need to rewatch the game but I’m sure the last time we played we went for it and it came off result wise, but they’re operating at an entirely different level this time around and we are standing in their way of a treble. We also don’t have Martinez in the team. We were also in much better form ourselves in general having won 6 or 7 games in a row. We also weren’t totally fecked fatigue wise.

The only way I see us getting a result is if we stay calm and shithouse it. If we go toe to toe I see them nicking a goal after about 25 minutes, and then us losing the plot like at Anfield while City romp to victory.

 

[AlPistacho]

He’s going to piss off a lot of our own fans when he tries to go toe to toe with City in the final and we get pummelled.

I hope next season he figures out how to play a more pragmatic style when required, it’s the main reason why we’ve been hammered in certain games this season.

It’s admirable that he wants to stick to his principles but we need to be able to switch it up at times to nick a result, at least until we have a better squad.

Don’t think this is the case. He has shown a pragmatic side after defeats. I think maybe the fact that we’ve been a bit crap towards the end of the season will make him be more cautious in the final.

 

[JuriM]

 

[bosnian_red]

Ogden just butt hurt that since Mourinho left he lost his good connections within the club and now doesn't break any news

 

[HookedOnAPhelan]

Ogden is a miserable wanker.