Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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I think the threat of being sacked should be there. It would be a collapse and failure to qualify from here. But i dont think i'd follow through with it.
I could criticise his signings and insisting on specific players but i think he was looking for a specific attitude and personality from them. I really cant argue with that thought process and i think they needed to be mentally strong to not get dragged down by the wider group. You can criticise Antony for not being super exciting, goalscorer but he has the right attitude and mentality, he's intelligent, he has fight. He has a lot of good qualities. Martinez is great, Casemiro is great. We desperately needed to sweep the deck clean and rebuild our squad and 5 players is probably the limit till it starts being counter productive (chelsea being a good example if you buy too many players).
I dont know what happens in the summer. If were shopping in the bargain basement in august or were throwing a billion around in one summer. He's still the best manager available to us and i wouldn't want to swap him for falling short with this group of players. Its gone better than i expected whatever the outcome.
I think were usually great to watch and entertaining which goes a long way too. I have a lot of patience for a manager who tries to play good football.
 
kidbob said:
I think he has done a lot of good things this season but the last few weeks are telling. The hard fact is that if he fails to get top 4 from here, and I think he will, then he should be sacked. We need to stop rewarding failure, especially from the strong position we were in. To be honest its likely not his fault, we have seen the same shit over and over with these players but ultimately we can't change the 15 players we need to compared to 1 manager so we need to hope maybe someone like Poch can get a full time tune out of them. That's the worst thing for me. ETH actually had them playing well for a long time but they reverted. So the players are capable of it but they simply can't sustain it. Either way unfortunately he has to be the fall guy when we fail to get top 4. I hope he goes on to achieve good things because I have been mostly a huge fan of his until the debacle of the last few weeks and the inevitable failure coming up in the next games.

For anyone wondering how the next 15 months go - City win the treble and then Liverpool do the same after us being the reason they get CL in the first place. It's the inevitable life of being a United fan nowadays.

Anyway hopefully we can get it right at some point soon.
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I probably shouldn't bite but anyway... we wouldn't be rewarding failure would we! We've won our first trophy in 5 years, and in another final. We are probably ahead of schedule and it takes time and money (which we don't seem to have much of) to build a team. If we keep sacking managers we'll just be in an endless cycle of having to get players to suit a managers particular style and be in a constant rebuild. This isn't Football Manager.

BIB - what could Poch do that ETH can't with these 15 players? The 15 so called players are the problem no matter who the manager is.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 
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I don't think he should be sacked yet. But if he intends to persist with DDG, he won't last long anyway and he will be rightfully sacked.

Which honestly is really weird how he seems to turn a blind eye on DDG. Or he is really bad at analyzing how destructive DDG, which is alarming.

Another question mark is his lack of rotation and unwillingness to give players like Pellistri a chance or at least just sell them (Elanga, Williams, McT).

I don't think that anyone expected much, so it was his chance instead of being too pragmatic, to try force some changes. He has done some, but really the hard on DDG is a massive red flag, and an indication that next year he will be pragmatic again.

It's sad really that he was portrayed as fair and yet we see the same players getting chance after chance even though they have failed a whole year (Sancho, weghorst, Martial, DDG).
 
madzo2007 said:
I probably shouldn't bit but anyway... we wouldn't be rewarding failure would we! We've won our first trophy in 5 years, and in another final. We are probably ahead of schedule and it takes time and money (which we don't seem to have much of) to build a team. If we keep sacking managers we'll just be in an endless cycle of having to get players to suit a managers particular style and be in a constant rebuild. This isn't Football Manager.

BIB - what could Poch do that ETH can't with these 15 players? The 15 so called players are the problem no matter who the manager is.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
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We would be as we have been since sacking Ole and Jose. Both of those were let down by the same players in crunch moments. I'm just angry at how clear we were for top 4 and now it is almost gone. For what it's worth if we beat Wolves and Bournemouth, as we should, then I do think we'll get top 4. If we fail to win either of these games then the players will inevitably fall apart. To be honest it's always been the players. Jose and Ole weren't perfect but the players were the ones who failed. ETH had us playing good football but the players have inevitably failed.

I agree with you basically in everything but my thoughts on the 7-0 was that we'd have the last laugh with top 4. If we fail to get it and allow Liverpool too then that 7-0 becomes a stink that will never leave ETH. As I said I've been in this thread defending him for the whole season but failure to get top 4 from the position we were in and losing it to Liverpool makes the 7-0 unacceptable and a sackable offence.

I don't think it will make the club or team better but then at this point I don't know what will. However we still need to have standards. For me, if he gets top 4 then he should stay if he doesn't then he should go even if we somehow beat City in the FA cup final.

I have no doubt ETH will go on and have success at a club that isn't a complete joke.
 
madzo2007 said:
I probably shouldn't bite but anyway... we wouldn't be rewarding failure would we! We've won our first trophy in 5 years, and in another final. We are probably ahead of schedule and it takes time and money (which we don't seem to have much of) to build a team. If we keep sacking managers we'll just be in an endless cycle of having to get players to suit a managers particular style and be in a constant rebuild. This isn't Football Manager.

BIB - what could Poch do that ETH can't with these 15 players? The 15 so called players are the problem no matter who the manager is.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
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Jose won 2 cups in his first season AND qualified for the CL. Why are we ahead of schedule? Didnt we finish 2nd in 2021 and make the Europa final? people acting like we have been mid table for 5 years. Newcastle are in 3rd so we should have high expectations
 
Stacks said:
Jose won 2 cups in his first season AND qualified for the CL. Why are we ahead of schedule? Didnt we finish 2nd in 2021 and make the Europa final? people acting like we have been mid table for 5 years. Newcastle are in 3rd so we should have high expectations
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Some are going through the part of the cycle where you can only blame players and we cannot be expected to be any good with this squad.

We did finish 2nd in 2021 and we were 6th last year which was perceived as a major underachievement. One (Chelsea) top 4 team has fallen apart completely and another two (Spurs, Liverpool) have underachieved considerably compared to last season, being replaced with one over-performing team (Newcastle).

If I was told 2 years ago that we would spend nearly £250m on reinforcements (I am not counting Sancho who is of almost no use) and struggle to limp to 70 points and 4th I’d feel underwhelmed yet it’s being pitched as miraculous job.

Our team isn’t perfect or even as good as it should be but it’s not a horrific team.
 
Sarni said:
Some are going through the part of the cycle where you can only blame players and we cannot be expected to be any good with this squad.

We did finish 2nd in 2021 and we were 6th last year which was perceived as a major underachievement. One (Chelsea) top 4 team has fallen apart completely and another two (Spurs, Liverpool) have underachieved considerably compared to last season, being replaced with one over-performing team (Newcastle).

If I was told 2 years ago that we would spend nearly £250m on reinforcements (I am not counting Sancho who is of almost no use) and struggle to limp to 70 points and 4th I’d feel underwhelmed yet it’s being pitched as miraculous job.

Our team isn’t perfect or even as good as it should be but it’s not a horrific team.
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Except that we literally have no striker and one of the worst goalkeepers in a top 5 league. And we ended our trophy drought and are in another final. It's not a miraculous job but it's been pretty good and top 4 would make it really good.
 
Sarni said:
Some are going through the part of the cycle where you can only blame players and we cannot be expected to be any good with this squad.

We did finish 2nd in 2021 and we were 6th last year which was perceived as a major underachievement. One (Chelsea) top 4 team has fallen apart completely and another two (Spurs, Liverpool) have underachieved considerably compared to last season, being replaced with one over-performing team (Newcastle).

If I was told 2 years ago that we would spend nearly £250m on reinforcements (I am not counting Sancho who is of almost no use) and struggle to limp to 70 points and 4th I’d feel underwhelmed yet it’s being pitched as miraculous job.

Our team isn’t perfect or even as good as it should be but it’s not a horrific team.
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I dont think i've left that part of the cycle in the last decade.
Managers can become a problem in their own right but i've never felt they were the primary or sole issue. I think a lot of my frustration with various coaches was them sticking with players i'd given up on, which was never really their mistake because there was never much alternative.
 
Isotope said:
Makes you wonder if EtH and/or the Boards/owners have the resolute to make this kinda overhaul. Getting rid of a bunch of overpaid, uncommited and mediocre players, and getting in skillful, hungry and warriors.

Arsenal FA Cup Final 2020

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Arsenal 2022/2023 Season
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Arsenal able to overhaul the whole squad because they were being smart in using their budget. Honestly, this is where my question starts, is spending 100m or more on a striker is a smart way to use our budget this summer when we also need to overhaul the squad?
 
Sarni said:
If I was told 2 years ago that we would spend nearly £250m on reinforcements (I am not counting Sancho who is of almost no use) and struggle to limp to 70 points and 4th I’d feel underwhelmed yet it’s being pitched as miraculous job.
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Well 250 mill isn't what it used to be before pandemics.
 
UNITED ACADEMY said:
Arsenal able to overhaul the whole squad because they were being smart in using their budget. Honestly, this is where my question starts, is spending 100m or more on a striker is a smart way to use our budget this summer when we also need to overhaul the squad?
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Yeah. I don't know, man. People just too caught up on this striker woe, forgetting that some teams can be successful without a world class striker.

I think that if we get 2 players in Martinez class and age profile in midfield and right-back or winger at combined 100m, then getting any decent striker will do.

But then you watch how Chelsea fluffing chances, it gives you a second thought :lol:
 
Isotope said:
Yeah. I don't know, man. People just too caught up on this striker woe, forgetting that some teams can be successful without a world class striker.

I think that if we get 2 players in Martinez class and age profile in midfield and right-back or winger at combined 100m, then getting any decent striker will do.

But then you watch how Chelsea fluffing chances, it gives you a second thought :lol:
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There's no right or wrong answer here.
if ETH wants to play his style, he needs to use the resources available, 100M is a lot , especially given our wage budget is going to look better with number of players going off the payroll this summer.
If the new owners want him to compete for EPL then he is well within his rights to ask for more budget.

In my opinion we need a new GK & a new lethal striker as our top priorities, rest are also important but not the top priority.

FFS we have a combined 200M odd guys on the wings, Sancho, Antony & Martial. All not working for him.
 
dpansheth said:
There's no right or wrong answer here.
if ETH wants to play his style, he needs to use the resources available, 100M is a lot , especially given our wage budget is going to look better with number of players going off the payroll this summer.
If the new owners want him to compete for EPL then he is well within his rights to ask for more budget.

In my opinion we need a new GK & a new lethal striker as our top priorities, rest are also important but not the top priority.

FFS we have a combined 200M odd guys on the wings, Sancho, Antony & Martial. All not working for him.
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100m is indeed a lot, and we want to spend all of it on a single striker.
 
Isotope said:
Yeah. I don't know, man. People just too caught up on this striker woe, forgetting that some teams can be successful without a world class striker.

I think that if we get 2 players in Martinez class and age profile in midfield and right-back or winger at combined 100m, then getting any decent striker will do.

But then you watch how Chelsea fluffing chances, it gives you a second thought :lol:
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We have to get a strike because your attack is dysfunctional without one. So makes sense to go for high-profile since he'll be one of the first names on the team sheet anyway. I think we might go a couple of budget midfielders though. GK, Raya at worst is a must IMO.
 
kidbob said:
I think he has done a lot of good things this season but the last few weeks are telling. The hard fact is that if he fails to get top 4 from here, and I think he will, then he should be sacked. We need to stop rewarding failure, especially from the strong position we were in. To be honest its likely not his fault, we have seen the same shit over and over with these players but ultimately we can't change the 15 players we need to compared to 1 manager so we need to hope maybe someone like Poch can get a full time tune out of them. That's the worst thing for me. ETH actually had them playing well for a long time but they reverted. So the players are capable of it but they simply can't sustain it. Either way unfortunately he has to be the fall guy when we fail to get top 4. I hope he goes on to achieve good things because I have been mostly a huge fan of his until the debacle of the last few weeks and the inevitable failure coming up in the next games.

For anyone wondering how the next 15 months go - City win the treble and then Liverpool do the same after us being the reason they get CL in the first place. It's the inevitable life of being a United fan nowadays.

Anyway hopefully we can get it right at some point soon.
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Sack him and start all over again? And sack the next manager and the next and the next? Buy a whole new team in one year? How did that workout for Chelsea?

It was always gonna be a hard season. Whichever manager we have he needs more time than one season. Klopp and Guardiola had a difficult season in the league in their first year. And Ten Hag had a lot more troubles in the team with Ronaldo, Maguire, the World Cup and the sale.

Arsenal had some terrible seasons under Arteta but they sticked with him to built something. I don’t think Arteta is a really great manager but he could built something because they gave him time.

Lets give a manager some more time than one season. Or we will repeat the same mistakes every season.
 
fergieisold said:
He's way down the list of areas we need to improve upon.
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Not really, GK is just as important as a ST for us to improve on. We can get away with not having a ST when you control games but with DDG, we cant control games so even if we spend alot on a ST, it wont be a difference.

People thinking a ST will change our fortunes need to watch our games, our build up play doesn't even get the ball to the ST, because our GK cant pass short or long.
 
led_scholes said:
I don't think he should be sacked yet. But if he intends to persist with DDG, he won't last long anyway and he will be rightfully sacked.

Which honestly is really weird how he seems to turn a blind eye on DDG. Or he is really bad at analyzing how destructive DDG, which is alarming.

Another question mark is his lack of rotation and unwillingness to give players like Pellistri a chance or at least just sell them (Elanga, Williams, McT).

I don't think that anyone expected much, so it was his chance instead of being too pragmatic, to try force some changes. He has done some, but really the hard on DDG is a massive red flag, and an indication that next year he will be pragmatic again.

It's sad really that he was portrayed as fair and yet we see the same players getting chance after chance even though they have failed a whole year (Sancho, weghorst, Martial, DDG).
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I'm still astonished sacking him is even in peoples mind.
 
Gordon Godot said:
playing Wout and sticking with DDG, who clearly cannot play how ETH wants, are very concerning and do raise fairly fundamental questions
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On top of all the horror defeats this season, crap football for the most part, terrible record away. There must be a certain standard for being a manager at United.

If he fails to achieve top 4 and win the FA Cup, as much as I like him, there's enough grounds to be sacked.
 
Amsterdam Devil said:
Sack him and start all over again? And sack the next manager and the next and the next? Buy a whole new team in one year? How did that workout for Chelsea?

It was always gonna be a hard season. Whichever manager we have he needs more time than one season. Klopp and Guardiola had a difficult season in the league in their first year. And Ten Hag had a lot more troubles in the team with Ronaldo, Maguire, the World Cup and the sale.

Arsenal had some terrible seasons under Arteta but they sticked with him to built something. I don’t think Arteta is a really great manager but he could built something because they gave him time.

Lets give a manager some more time than one season. Or we will repeat the same mistakes every season.
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our mistakes have always been giving managers too much time. The more successful clubs are trigger happy
 
Stacks said:
our mistakes have always been giving managers too much time. The more successful clubs are trigger happy
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Well moyes went in the first season didn’t he? LVG went after winning a trophy. This manager needs more time. Took klopp 3 years to win something with Liverpool. ETH is trying to build something and create an identity which no other manager as managed to do.
 
DJ_21 said:
Well moyes went in the first season didn’t he? LVG went after winning a trophy. This manager needs more time. Took klopp 3 years to win something with Liverpool. ETH is trying to build something and create an identity which no other manager as managed to do.
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thats because CL qualification has always been the minimum. Klopp achieved this in this first full season followed by a CL final which pretty much announced Liverpoo's return to the big time.
 
Stacks said:
thats because CL qualification has always been the minimum. Klopp achieved this in this first full season followed by a CL final which pretty much announced Liverpoo's return to the big time.
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So did Solskjær in his first full season but we all knew we was no where near back to where we want to be. My point is though with ETH he’s a modern manager with clear ideas of how he wants us to play. Without the players who can play this way then we’ll be going no where. He deserves next season at least to see where he takes us.. hopefully that’s with us playing CL football aswell.
 
Cloud7 said:
I think the biggest change with owners more willing to invest in the club might be a willingness to absorb a loss faster and move on to attempting to replace a player rather than trying to force some way for it to work.
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Yeah I think you make a very valid point there
 


“Erik ten Hag losing nine games in the Premier League does raise some issues. If you are a Manchester United manager, you will always be scrutinised for little details or mistakes. There’s nowhere to hide. Ole Gunnar Solskjaer had a better record than Ten Hag in his full two seasons managing the club, people talk about the progress we’ve made and the better style of football being played. Manchester United have reached the FA Cup final, won the Carabao Cup and made it far in the Europa League so that is progress, but Ten Hag losing more Premier League games than Solskjaer in the 2019/20 and 2020/21 seasons has to be called out. The results have not been good enough this season, Manchester United are looking over their shoulder and are desperately trying to hold onto fourth place, I’m not sure that’s where the club wants to be. You can’t hide in these circumstances, the players and the manager alike need to be called out. Ten Hag gets the praise when the team is playing well, he has to take the criticism when it goes wrong too. The disappointing thing in my observation in these games is that Manchester United don’t know how to win ugly, it always has to be a pretty game of football. We rarely win games 1-0, football is not about scoring loads of goals, it’s about getting the results and rolling your sleeves up in certain games, like the West Ham game.”
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ShinjiNinja26 said:
Ten Hags won a trophy in his first few months in the job, something Ole never managed in his whole tenure here. Shite like this does nothing to help things. I wish ex players would shut the feck up at times.
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To be fair, trophies are for ego.
 
ShinjiNinja26 said:
Ten Hags won a trophy in his first few months in the job, something Ole never managed in his whole tenure here. Shite like this does nothing to help things. I wish ex players would shut the feck up at times.
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this. its like when liverpool was shit and there ex players spouted shit. the problem with ex players is, that most of them are quite simple and have no idea of managing a football club
 
Tom Van Persie said:
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And if we win 3/4 of our next games (three of those at OT), we'll have won more games (22) than Solskjaer's second full season at the club. It will also be our best wins record since 2017-18 (25), which was Mourinho's classic second season climax, not the start of his tenure. And this, without our first choice forward for almost the entirety of the season, with a hectic schedule that rarely allowed time to work on the tactics on the training ground, and with a manager still trying to come to grips with the reality of PL. We don't know how to win ugly, but can he show us another team that's in the race for top-four in the most competitive league in the world with just 49 goals scored and a +8 GD? Love Dwight, but he's talking out of his arse here.
 
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