Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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Donut said:
Would people be happier if we had Brighton’s play and points haul?
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Play - yes, subjectively speaking. I think they have been much more consistent than us and their weaknesses are going to be easier to address. They have been dominant in nearly all games they played and have not had any truly terrible performances this season.

Points is a lot more objective and for sure I would rather be on 59 than 49.

Of course we are discussing a team that has been built for less money than we spent on Maguire and Sancho.
 
An opinion from a grumpy negative old man. ;)

Is Erik ten Hag the right manager to take us forward and to compete against City, Madrid & Co?

YES! I can’t see anything that point in another direction. There’s off course questionable line ups, subs, formations and tactical tweaks that he maybe handled a little bit naive but compared to all the things he has done well my personal opinion is that I feel 100% comfortable with him continuing. No manager in the whole world including Pep, Sir Alex or Klopp does everything right all the time. That’s impossible with the work load and the difficult decision making they has on their shoulders.

Are United moving on the right direction?

YES! Our results speaks for itself. When we’re good we’re close to the top clubs but we’re still short of talent and quality. We have had a couple of set backs but better to have them now than later. The results against Liverpool and Seville doesn’t reflect the whole story. We’re two up against Seville at OT when Malacia lose his concentration and then it all goes downhill. Unexpected injuries and players who panic and do unforgivable stuffs make us look worse than we’re. A combination of bad luck and players who’re not good enough is part of the answer but Ten Hag can’t be blamed that three of our defenders/GK goes from nervous to catastrophic.

I think Lego is a pompous twat but I must admire his work at Arsenal. Ruthless in his approach and consistent in his decision making. I have total confidence in ten Hag that he can do the same if he gets similar backing and decision making freedom.
 
Sarni said:
Play - yes, subjectively speaking. I think they have been much more consistent than us and their weaknesses are going to be easier to address. They have been dominant in nearly all games they played and have not had any truly terrible performances this season.

Points is a lot more objective and for sure I would rather be on 59 than 49.

Of course we are discussing a team that has been built for less money than we spent on Maguire and Sancho.
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Not sure if you saw the post from one of the Brighton supporters on here but it was very insightful on how they've been built from bottom to top. They have a structure that we can only dream of. Our scattergun approach, in regards to signing players, before this season has been awful but I do like most of the players we've recruited recently so hopefully that bodes well for the future.
 
Di Maria's angel said:
Not sure if you saw the post from one of the Brighton supporters on here but it was very insightful on how they've been built from bottom to top. They have a structure that we can only dream of. Our scattergun approach, in regards to signing players, before this season has been awful but I do like most of the players we've recruited recently so hopefully that bodes well for the future.
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Brighton are a proper club.
 
Telsim said:
Brighton are a proper club.
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I don't know what defines a proper club. I just don't think we'll ever be able to pull of transfers like they do. As soon as we're involved, no matter who the player is, we will get robbed. And we can thank Ed for that crap he said when he left Sydney all those years ago.
 
The manager of Sevilla is renowned for his pressing if his instruction wasn't to play over the press it was a mistake, to put in perspective the manager of Seville when he was at Eibar they won the ball back the most in the final 3rd in all of La Liga one season

If the players ignored him and still tried to play short well they have got themselves to blame
 
Longshanks said:
Sometimes he makes decisions that I just can't fathom, tonight in the first half he played Eriksen in the 6 and Casemerio was playing as an 8. Eriksen as a 6 he has tried a few times this season with not a huge amount success and Casemerio looked a bit lost at 8. Is it to simple to play your best no 6 at 6 in a difficult euro away game.

I understand the theory was to try and control the first phase but it failed miserably and then as a result we were just so open and getting played through at will because Eriksen dosent have the defensive instincts to really play as a 6.
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Can't be helped when we tried to push up the pitch after gifting an early goal. Casemiro add a threat inside their box something Martial can lack. For example he did have a header from Antony cross in the first half.

Normally you would try to regain control of the game, but from early on it's clear we're shaken and have no composure trying to play orthodoxly. They would still be able to pin us back into our box like toward the end of the first leg
 
United fans: "boo, that's not the United Way" after Mourinho secures an away draw at Anfield to keep us top of the league.

Also United fans: "wah, we've lost too many away games by big margins - the manager should learn to shut up shop and avoid a pounding" after a depleted United side lose away to Sevilla during a season in which our new manager has the highest win rate of any of our previous managers in his first 50 games.

In the spirit of criticising posts rather than posters some of the posts in this thread are right old cnuts.
 
Let him clear out a bunch of players, we'll be better off with more backups like Malacia who can implement his system, even if they're not world class.
 
romufc said:
Oh nice so you think EtH has worked a miracle yeah, I suspect you dont know the meaning of it,
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It's not even about ETH, it's about your (and you are by no means the only one @Leftback99 is another one) hypocrisy in terms of your staunch support of OGS and the fact that you are sadly not able to give our current manager the same type of backing.
 
Yeah that clearout news is just a big tease, how are they going to magically shop all these guys that they could never get rid off in previous years. And who will come in their stead when every club wants to fleece United for every penny they've got. We will never be able to do an overhaul like that when the club is still in Glazer hands. I think this upcoming summer window is going to be a big, big letdown.
 
Telsim said:
Isn't contract amortisation done for the inital fee and just for accounting purposes and FFP? But the money is being paid nonetheless? And I think we'd be able to sell Maguire for some fee, but not Martial or Sancho. No one would pay the wages we do, and they've got no reason to leave for less.

Releasing them early would mean reaching a settlement, which almost certainly includes paying most if not all of their remaining wage for the duration of the contract. They have no reason to accept otherwise, even if they are sent to the U-21s for the reminder of the contract. Sancho is contracted until 2026, which means the club would have to pay him more than £60M to release. Obviously not possible. For Martial it would be, like £15M or something.

I think we are just stuck with them. But we could shift most of the rest... if we can replace them.
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IMO we need to start playing dirty with deadwood players on high wages.

Take away their first team privileges, their parking spots, etc. Send them down to the U-21s and make it abundantly clear they will not play another game until they find a new club or their contract is up.

Put pressure on them to decide: do I see out my expensive contract at the expense of my career, or do I leave and take a pay cut to continue playing?

No more half measures.
 
Sarni said:
Play - yes, subjectively speaking. I think they have been much more consistent than us and their weaknesses are going to be easier to address. They have been dominant in nearly all games they played and have not had any truly terrible performances this season.

Points is a lot more objective and for sure I would rather be on 59 than 49.

Of course we are discussing a team that has been built for less money than we spent on Maguire and Sancho.
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The Brighton right now is the result of multiple year progress/planning. De Zerbi improved their result and their play, but he didn't assemble the squad himself nor he built the foundation out of nothing in few months. Brighton has people for those jobs. They have the "continuity" of vision/philosophy to bridge the gap between "head coach" changes.

In comparison, we had no foundation, no vision in play. What is Ole's legacy? Ragnick didn't leave nay work in place other pointing out the issues. Said it in summer, our football director is a joke if he needs to wait ETH to assess the squad before realizing all the issue with DM, RW, CB, GK, CF positions. A competent DoF should have insight into this squad and even before the manager asked, he should be able to suggest getting Antony earlier in the window which could save us a significant amount that can use toward other deal like a CF. DoF should have medical assessment on Martial fitness from club doctors, to plan to recruit another CF regardless Ronaldo stay or leave decision. A competent DoF could go to ETH to let him know that it's useless to use all preseason trying to turn Fred into a no 6.

The DoF and the recruitment team is where it comes together to help build a plan where all players bought few years earlier can seamlessly work with the new head coach. Whereas here, it would require a squad overhaul every time we change the manager. And our Football Director seems to only work on ETH's requests instead of doing his own job independently but cooperatively.
 
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Rusholme Ruffian said:
It's not even about ETH, it's about your (and you are by no means the only one @Leftback99 is another one) hypocrisy in terms of your staunch support of OGS and the fact that you are sadly not able to give our current manager the same type of backing.
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Why are you tagging me and what on earth are you rambling on about?

Ole again :rolleyes:
 
ti vu said:
The Brighton right now is the result of multiple year progress/planning. De Zerbi improved their result and their play, but he assembled the squad himself or he built the foundation in few months. Brighton has people for those jobs. They have the "continuity" of vision/philosophy to bridge the gap between "head coach" changes.

In comparison, we had no foundation, no vision in play. What is Ole's legacy? Rangnick didn't leave nay work in place other pointing out the issues. Said it in summer, our football director is a joke if he needs to wait ETH to assess the squad before realizing all the issue with DM, RW, CB, GK, CF positions. A competent DoF should have insight into this squad and even before the manager asked, he should be able to suggest getting Antony earlier in the window which could have us a significant amount that can use toward other deal like a CF. DoF should have medical assessment on Martial fitness form club doctors, to plan to recruit another CF regardless Ronaldo stay or leave decision. A competent DoF could go to ETH to let him know that it's useless to use all preseason trying to turn Fred into a no 6.

The DoF and the recruitment team is where it comes together to help build a plan where all players bought few years earlier can seamlessly work with the new head coach. Whereas here, it would require a squad overhaul every time we change the manager. And our Football Director seems to only work on ETH's requests instead of doing his own job independently but cooperatively.
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This. It seems like we're still expecting the manager to be the scout and DOF for the club. If we don't put a proper structure into place, ETH will fail just like his predecessors.

Great blog post I recently read on this exact topic.
 
Skills said:
I couldn't stand either Mourinho or Solskjaer. I'm actually way more partial to ETH than any of our previous managers (actually rooted for him to get the job), but that's not going to stop me from calling a spade a spade. Quite frankly far too many of these away games have been disgraceful
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Constructive criticism is needed and should always be presented. We have not been perfect and to be fair our away form against big side is concerning. So fair enough if anyone is questioning eth on that.
 
I don't want him sacked nor am I fearing the worst but I'm starting to develop concerns. We need to see how he does under new ownership with the right recruitment strategy.
 
romufc said:
Right, if money spent dont matter, I do not want you to complain if the Glazers stay and we dont spend money. Cause apparently money spent does not matter.

Secondly, no football team gets 8 first team players in one window, that is pure delusion if you think that will happen.

Finally, every team has their own injuries to deal with, we are not the only football club with injuries. Newcastle were facing relegation and are in CL places, Villa were 16th this season and a change of manager has them at 6th, Arteta finished 8th, 5th, 5th and is now clear on top..

Going from 6th to 3rd is not a miracle...

I think Ten Hag is doing a good job but no way near a miracle.
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You don’t half type a lot of words out while saying absolutely sod all.

We have a squad that wouldn’t look out of place in fifth or sixth. We’re above that, so be happy. Ten Hag is the main reason for this.
 
It is pretty simple: we were always going to have periods of poor play this season because we still have poor players.

The signings have been good, but we are not that many injuries away from the side last season.

The team still has massive weakness even when the best 11 are fielded: no striker (Martial does not count), no goal threat outside of Rashford; and a goalkeeper who is terrible in possession.

.Outside of that, the depth is just really low quality. Injuries were always going to cause us massive issues. We also cannot keep relying on one player to score - it was never going to be sustainable.

I think Ten Hag has done better than expected. I did not even think we would get top four (albeit that does have something to do with Liverpool and Chelsea being awful) and a trophy, so he exceeds my expectations for this season.
 
Blood Mage said:
Our hopeless passing at times and cluelessness in the final third.
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I think part of that falls on the technical ability of some of our players. I trust given more transfer windows he’ll build a squad that knows how to retain the ball.

Was never gonna be a quick fix but he’s shown more development and consistency this year than any other manager post fergie.
 
Suv666 said:
Both of our starting CBs out, Bruno out, Rashford just back from injury and people find a way to blame ETH!
Literally every team would struggle with such an injury ridden squad.
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But we were blown away by Sevilla. Good team without doubt but not as good as ours.
I hate that excuse (not just for ETH, it goes for all our managers) how poor guy can't work with dross. In other words every our manager needs 20 top players to show how good he is. That is nonsense.
Manager's job is to make players better. Yes, some players just don't fit in his playing style which is why nobody expected to fight for title but there is no excuse being blown away against Sevilla with that team yesterday.
 
Dont think ETH can skip the criticism. His away form has not been good. Despite the injuries we had a decent team on paper starting. Confidence was low and we couldn’t string together two passes. This performance is simply unacceptable even with injuries.
 
Andycoleno9 said:
Yes, some players just don't fit in his playing style which is why nobody expected to fight for title but there is no excuse being blown away against Sevilla with that team yesterday.
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Hang on, do you not think that clusterfeck of a goal in the first 5 minutes might have just blown everything out of the water? There was nothing the manager could have done about that, and immediately fired up the home team and their support, and heaped pressure on a goalkeeper and second choice defence that panic like feck every time every time they receive the ball under pressure. From then we were chasing the game, and looking for goals from a team without Fernandes or Rashford (until half-time but he looked off the pace), with Martial just back from injury. There are certainly plenty of explanations for why the game panned out as it did. Sevilla may be in the bottom half of La Liga but they still have some excellent players - and exactly the style of play to really get at Maguire, Lindelof and De Gea. They also have insane amounts of self belief in that competition due to winning it so often - it's a bit like Liverpool in the CL, they have a belief that allows them to play out of their skins (unfortunately), whereas we are wracked with self-doubt due to 10 years of shite.

No-one is saying that there shouldn't be criticism of the performance (from manager or players), but to deny that there any extenuating circumstances whatsoever is weird.
 
Rusholme Ruffian said:
I'm tagging you cos I don't know how you have the audacity to post negatively in this thread given how dismissive you were of anybody's criticisms of Solksjaer - even after literally years of mediocrity. You guys have literally no shame.
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I don't know why you and others still need to talk about Ole all the time. I assume it's due to the fact that he had a decent spell (2nd and a Europa league final) and proved you wrong when you said it couldn't happen. It really got to you didn't it?

He's long gone. Time to get over it.

We've got a better manager now but bad performances are still bad performances. I don't need you to tell me when I can post.
 
He knows which players he wants to get rid of now and which players he trusts. The challenge is securing that top 4 and getting the most out of them until then.

Hopefully if we get past Brighton our fixture schedule will be more manageable (no grueling battles with Juventus or EL final sadly) and the injury and fitness situation will look better.
 
Leftback99 said:
I don't know why you and others still need to talk about Ole all the time. I assume it's due to the fact that he had a decent spell (2nd and a Europa league final) and proved you wrong when you said it couldn't happen. It really got to you didn't it?

He's long gone. Time to get over it.

We've got a better manager now but bad performances are still bad performances. I don't need you to tell me when I can post.
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I'm not talking about Ole - I'm talking about how embarrassing it is to be more of a fan of an ex-player than the club itself. :wenger:
 
Blood Mage said:
Our hopeless passing at times and cluelessness in the final third.
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What could be done differently with the squad we have to change that?

What solutions are there that can be implemented before a transfer window?

Our two best CBs, both comfortable on the ball, are injured. Our two best CMs, both very comfortable on the ball, have been injured / suspended for extended runs of games. Our top scorer was injured & we don’t have a striker…at all.

We’d have always needed luck with injuries to maintain the run that ETH started. The more of ‘his’ players he brings in, the less we’d have to rely on that luck.
 
Leftback99 said:
You're always talking about Ole :lol:. Rent free.
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You are an odd sort. I'm a United fan, why would I have a problem with someone who was a fantastic servant to the club, and a nice guy into the bargain? I wanted him to succeed as much as anyone - I should imagine 99.9% of United fans felt the same way. However, when it became obvious that he was out of his depth the best thing for THE CLUB was for him to go, and yet any criticism was met with a wall of defiance from the likes of you, because you were more interested in what was best for HIM. The reason this is relevant is because here you are in this thread behaving in a completely different way. Embarrassing.
 
People just need to relax and take a breathe. There was a massive amount of distraction and to fix when he just got into the job. Everyone would have gladly taken top 4 and a cup at the start of the season and it they’re saying otherwise….I wouldn’t believe them.

We’ve also struggled with injuries and literally have zero reliable CF’s due to mismanagement from the (previous) Board. It’s a good season to build on, IMO (assuming we see out and achieve top 4 and we could even win another cup!). Inconsistent performances were always going to happen - it happened to Klopp & Pep as well, especially as you’re trying to fit square pegs into round holes.

If we’re able to address another few key positions during the summer (CF, CM, GK, RB) and move on (a lot of!) players not fit for purpose, and if we’re still then going through the same issues mid to end next season, then I’d start worrying and questioning the manager.
 
Big Ben Foster said:
IMO we need to start playing dirty with deadwood players on high wages.

Take away their first team privileges, their parking spots, etc. Send them down to the U-21s and make it abundantly clear they will not play another game until they find a new club or their contract is up.

Put pressure on them to decide: do I see out my expensive contract at the expense of my career, or do I leave and take a pay cut to continue playing?

No more half measures.
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Technically, I agree. At the very least it might provide some motivation. The issue is this will likely keep happening, so it would just be treating a symptom.

Cutting edge clubs encounter such scenarios rarely, and most often due to other issues, like discipline. That's because cutting edge clubs generally don't allow themselves to end up in this position. Vet players well, buy what you need, don't overpay, don't hand out absurd wages etc. The player should want the club at least as much the club wants the player. Sometimes you may want to pay a more if the competition is high or you really need the player. Flops will always happen, but it should never become the usual MO, and you can usually move them sooner rather than later.

In this aspect, we are a complete laughingstock. Massive fees, massive wages, big contracts, big fanfare, marquee signings that don't really fit any coherent vision, weird sentimentality, the whole shebang. It's a running show more than it is a competitive football club. Ultimately, just a symptom of terrible club management. Why is Brandon Williams still at the club? No idea. Why is Tuanzebe still at the club? No idea. Why is Martial still at the club? No idea. Why was Sancho offered a criminal salary on a 5(?)-year-contract? No idea. Why was Sanchez bought and the wage structure ruined? No idea. Why is De Gea at close to 500k? No idea. Why is Phil Jones still at the club? No idea. Why was Pogba getting paid 500k? No idea. And on, and on. It's a running theme. And when I say "no idea", I do actually have an idea for each of those.

The point is, such measures shouldn't become the norm because you should never find yourself in such situation.
 
Telsim said:
Technically, I agree. At the very least it might provide some motivation. The issue is this will likely keep happening, so it would just be treating a symptom.

Cutting edge clubs encounter such scenarios rarely, and most often due to other issues, like discipline. That's because cutting edge clubs generally don't allow themselves to end up in this position. Vet players well, buy what you need, don't overpay, don't hand out absurd wages etc. The player should want the club at least as much the club wants the player. Sometimes you may want to pay a more if the competition is high or you really need the player. Flops will always happen, but it should never become the usual MO, and you can usually move them sooner rather than later.

In this aspect, we are a complete laughingstock. Massive fees, massive wages, big contracts, big fanfare, marquee signings that don't really fit any coherent vision, weird sentimentality, the whole shebang. It's a running show more than it is a competitive football club. Ultimately, just a symptom of terrible club management. Why is Brandon Williams still at the club? No idea. Why is Tuanzebe still at the club? No idea. Why is Martial still at the club? No idea. Why was Sancho offered a criminal salary on a 5(?)-year-contract? No idea. Why was Sanchez bought and the wage structure ruined? No idea. Why is De Gea at close to 500k? No idea. Why is Phil Jones still at the club? No idea. Why was Pogba getting paid 500k? No idea. And on, and on. It's a running theme. And when I say "no idea", I do actually have an idea for each of those.

The point is, such measures shouldn't become the norm because you should never find yourself in such situation.
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Agree 100%. It would be a measure to try to get us out of a situation we should've never found ourselves in.

To your point, whose brilliant idea was it to pay Sancho 300k/week or Williams 80k/week, for instance? Even the most amateur negotiator would've realized there was no competition for their signatures and all the bargaining power was on our side of the table.
 
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