Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[spiriticon]

Honestly, the only manager that deserves a cult following is Sir Alex. I'm part of that cult 100%.

The rest have it all to prove.

 

[cyberman]

No, the post is acting like we should be glad we are getting such results as if it's something out of our realm :

What’s wrong with that post? What were you expecting coming into this season? It seems you’re put out by someone asking you to quantify your criticisms?

 

[romufc]

Yeah fair enough. I think he's doing a brilliant job, thus far. Much better than any of our previous managers. LvG was far too inconsistent in his first season, Mourinho, whilst winning trophies, had us playing some very defensive football and Ole, following a free half season, had us playing horrible football till Bruno joined.

Yep, he is by far the best coach we have had since SAF. We need to see the consistency and improvement into next season.

I think this summer will be huge because we have seen the type of football he wants to play, he needs better quality in the 1st 11 to implement it.

The difference between the managers is that, Ten Hag is an actual coach, if you listen to him post match, he doesnt sugar coat things like luck or anything, he says it how it is, we need to do better. Like yesterday, he said the team was not prepared. I have seen managers come out and say things like, the lads gave it their all, which is pathetic really.

 

[mav_9me]

So, you are essentially saying that it's okay to concede 5 goals?
What about the 7 goals against LFC? Is that also a fluke?
What about the 6 goals conceded against MCFC a few months ago?
Or the 4 goals conceded against Brentford?

Are these all fluke goals which we should write off?

I'm not saying the ETH should be sacked. I actually think that he is doing a good job in his first year, but these thrashings cannot be swept under the carpet.

Our standards are so low now, that even when we get spanked, fans are accepting them as flukes.

I have a slightly different view. People look at scores and get all worked up.

Liverpool was absolutely a fluke. We were outplayed way worse away to Newcastle, where they dominated start to finish.

Brentford was way too early before we had made changes to our starting XI.

My point is there is actually a huge issue, our performances away to anybody decent. Isolating those 3 scores doesn't address that.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Honestly, the only manager that deserves a cult following is Sir Alex. I'm part of that cult 100%.

The rest have it all to prove.

We definitely don't need these cult followings. If ETH does not achieve his targets (at least most of them), next year, then the chances are he will be sacked. Right now, he deserves nothing but our backing.

 

[el3mel]

What’s wrong with that post? What were you expecting coming into this season? It seems you’re put out by someone asking you to quantify your criticisms?

The wrong is telling us to shut up and be content with a top 4 and a league cup win in which we faced barely any competition every time we open our mouth to criticize the manager for an awful game plan.

 

[cyberman]

It is not about away defeats. It is the way how we lost those games.
Look, lots of our performances showed that with 3-4 new players we can challenge for title and play pretty nice football. That is all good. And that is why nobody has doubts about is ETH good enough for Man Utd. Because he IS!

But our performances in basically all big away games are becoming an issue and huge question mark for future. Because in most of those games we played with (more or less) best 11.

To be fair he can’t fix all those in one season. If he did we would be well clear at the top of you take into account our fantastic home form.
He isn’t selling almost 15 players this summer because the squad should be doing better, they’re being sold because they aren’t good enough.

 

[cyberman]

The wrong is telling us to shut up and be content with a top 4 and a league cup win in which we faced barely any competition every time we open our mouth to criticize the manager for an awful game plan.

You’re taking that post far too personally and reading far too much into it imo.
if someone Can drag out a post saying being third in the league, potentially 9 points ahead of 5th if we win our game in hand with a trophy already won and on for domestic cup double isn’t good enough or is worthy of criticism then I’ll donate 1000 pound to charity.
That’s what’s being argued against here, that this isn’t good enough. It’s absurd.

 

[romufc]

It is not about away defeats. It is the way how we lost those games.
Look, lots of our performances showed that with 3-4 new players we can challenge for title and play pretty nice football. That is all good. And that is why nobody has doubts about is ETH good enough for Man Utd. Because he IS!

But our performances in basically all big away games are becoming an issue and huge question mark for future. Because in most of those games we played with (more or less) best 11.

It feels like on here there are certain fans where if you critic performances = you dont trust Ten Hag or want him sacked.

Which is not the case, this is the first time in a very long time that United fans do not argue if the manager is good enough, the general consensus is yeh he is the man for the job.

However; there are certain performances this season that have been very bad, yes he cant fix everything in a season, which is why no one is expecting him to win the league. We should not be getting dominated by Sevilla, they were fighting relegation until last week in La Liga and they absolutely dominated us for over 90 mins. We should as a team be able to fight better.

 

[el3mel]

You’re taking that post far too personally and reading far too much into it imo.
if someone Can drag out a post saying being third in the league, potentially 9 points ahead of 5th if we win our game in hand with a trophy already won and on for domestic cup double isn’t good enough or is worthy of criticism then I’ll donate 1000 pound to charity.
That’s what’s being argued against here, that this isn’t good enough. It’s absurd.

My assessment of the season was better than now back when we won the league cup, but our form since then deducts a lot of points out of this season and it seems like we are approaching a negative end to this year. I think the way he managed the team since winning that cup was pretty bad and his squad management and game preparation played a big part in our down fall this last month. We are lucky our competitors on top 4 is a managerless Spurs who can't string 2 wins in a row otherwise this month could have costed us dearly.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

Multiple excuses for conceding 5 goals though.

True, but hardly any for only scoring 2 goals over 2 games against a team that's 13th in La liga.

 

[cyberman]

My assessment of the season was better than now back when we won the league cup, but our form since then deducts a lot of points out of this season and it seems like we are approaching a negative end to this year. I think the way he managed the team since winning that cup was pretty bad and his squad management and game preparation played a big part in our down fall this last month. We are lucky our competitors on top 4 is a managerless Spurs who can't string 2 wins in a row otherwise this month could have costed us dearly.

So we’re unlucky that Arsenal and Newcastle had the seasons of their lives or we’d be clear second using that logic, right?
That doesn’t make an ounce of sense. Our projected points total would be good enough for top 4 every other season. We’re only 11 behind City!
Edit just 12 more points needed to beat Spurs with a managers total from last year

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

I think too many look to pin blame on ETH for things that are much more down to other factors. Has he fecked up? Absolutely, namely the Weghorst acquisition and subsequent endless run of starts among other things. But people also need to realize that someone like ETH is having these players play a progressive system when many simply aren't cut out for it (and won't be around anyways pretty soon). It particularly shows in away games when the opposition is higher intensity, as you need players that can have composure on the ball and exert control over a game instead of being dragged into a cagey dogfight that's tough to win.

Add to that the fact that we all knew our depth in most positions was terrible, and we've run into brutal injury luck this second half of the season, and it's natural that performances will dive.

 

[el3mel]

So we’re unlucky that Arsenal and Newcastle had the seasons of their lives or we’d be clear second using that logic, right?
That doesn’t make an ounce of sense. Our projected points total would be good enough for top 4 every other season. We’re only 11 behind City!
Edit just 12 more points needed to beat Spurs with a managers total from last year

Did you read my post ?

 

[Fluctuation0161]

I have expected the club to be top-4 every season the last years and been disappointed several times. You might expect and be happy with less and think reaching top 4 is a fantastic achievement. It’s just you and me having different expectations on what ETH and United are capable of.

No, it's not about us having different expectations. It's about me being realistic about where we are now as a club versus where we should be.

With the resources United have we should be challenging for the title every year. But we have been mismanaged at the top level for over a decade, had owners bleeding the club for nearly 2 decades.

So the point is having realistic expectations for Erik taking over an absolute shitshow. You may think k just because the club name is Manchester United we have a divine right to challenge. I've explained to you why that is not the case. Doesn't mean I'm happy or not disappointed about it. But I blame the right people, not Erik.

 

[Telsim]

Supposed clearout #34. Plenty curious to know how exactly Sancho and Martial are going to be shifted? Going by our track record, we'd struggle to sell water in the desert. Who is going to pay for them and their wages?

Who is going to pay for the replacements for most of them? I can't see Glazer and Friends doing that.

As before, I will believe it when I see it.

 

[Garethw]

I couldn't stand either Mourinho or Solskjaer. I'm actually way more partial to ETH than any of our previous managers (actually rooted for him to get the job), but that's not going to stop me from calling a spade a spade. Quite frankly far too many of these away games have been disgraceful

This is pretty much my exact feelings too.

 

[united_99]

Clear out on one hand and giving DdG a contract on the other? Sure.

 

[Telsim]

Clear out on one hand and giving DdG a contract on the other? Sure.

There was also talk of keeping Martial recently, if I remember correctly.

 

[TheGodsInRed]

Supposed clearout #34. Plenty curious to know how exactly Sancho and Martial are going to be shifted? Going by our track record, we'd struggle to sell water in the desert. Who is going to pay for them and their wages?

Who is going to pay for the replacements for most of them? I can't see Glazer and Friends doing that.

As before, I will believe it when I see it.

It's not impossible if we are willing to write off their asset value, like with did with Sanchez, pay them a settlement and take the loss. It's better than having players like Jones, see thier contract out and never play. I doubt, we will do this though. They just prey someone is going to offer them a big transfer fee, and it never happens.

 

[Telsim]

It's not impossible if we are willing to write off their asset value, like with did with Sanchez, pay them a settlement and take the loss. It's better than having players like Jones, see thier contract out and never play. I doubt, we will do this though. They just prey someone is going to offer them a big transfer fee, and it never happens.

But wouldn't that eat into our already limited transfer budget? I considered perhaps loaning them to at least reduce the financial load, but we could barely find takers for Martial last season. Be even harder now. Goes double for Sancho and his criminal wage.

 

[Yakuza_devils]

Don't blame ETH for 1 decade of unprecedented mismanagement by none other than Woodward.

1. How on earth super injury prone players like Martial and Jones got big/long term contract

2. Expensive signings flops like Sancho, Maguire, Fred

3. Underperforming players on super big contract like DDG

4. Spent enormous amount of money on a has been player and caused toxic environment (Ronaldo)

5. Average player that need to upgrade in McT, Lindelof, Dalot, AWB

6. The club now is so broke that we need to sign fecking Weghorst on loan. I can't believe this. Sabizter is no better and not at the level to improve us.

And we have people here expecting miracle from ETH. He needs at least another summer to get his player in. He is doing very well in his first season and some of the football played was extraordinary.

He is the right man to bring us forward. I see SAF in him.

 

[acnumber9]

People were making fun of Rangnick but he was spot on it seems. It's not just the skill that's the problem here, it's the mentality. Half of these players are relegation-tier jobbers in terms of mental strength.

People didn’t make fun of him for thinking the players were shit. They made fun of him for how shit he was. Anybody could tell you the likes of Maguire had no business playing for United.

 

[mav_9me]

Whilst I think the players have to shoulder most the blame for yesterday I do think you could question ETH in his tactical flexibility.

We've seen enough of AWB, Maguire, DDG and to an extent Lindelof to know that they're not great on the ball and don't read the game as well so can get exposed for positioning/decision making. When surrounded with the likes of Varane, Shaw, Martinez as individuals you can cover that but when they're all out on the pitch together I think we have to recognise that we need to play differently for example make the midfield sit deeper and wingers be compact and take a more patient approach. Instead we continue to almost try and play in a very open way which our attack doesn't really justify as it's not like many of them are lethal enough to take the risk of an open game.

Agree with this. Which is weird because he has made compromises and has played more pragmatic than his usual style (I maybe wrong) and has married a possession style with an emphasis on transition attack.

But then in the away games we are neither possession based or defensive with transition/counter attack based. I do hope he changes for the FA Cup semifinal.

 

[HookedOnAPhelan]

We’re third, well on course for finishing in the top four. And we’ve ended our trophy drought. And that’s with playing virtually the entire season without a proper CF. We’ve had some great performances, especially at OT which has become a fortress again. And this is all while having had the toughest schedule in Europe.

Our away form is troubling, with some genuinely shocking collapses, and it’s obvious that some of the issues in the squad from last season still remain. But hopefully we’ll sort most of them in the summer.

No need to panic. Finish in the top four and it will have been a great season, given the expectations. Miss top four and I’ll start to worry.

 

[Andersonson]

I like ETH, but he has something to prove. He doesnt change tactics, no matter the opponent and no matter what players he has available. That's not good in my book. He has to change things up when Maguire is playing and especially when Maguire is paired with Lindelof and DDG is the GK. You cannot expect that team to control the game in the same extents as with others.

Also, we are looking solid for top 4 and already has a cup in the bag. If we get top 4 the season has been a success. If we fail top 4 now, then we should question his ability

 

[Marwood]

Both of our starting CBs out, Bruno out, Rashford just back from injury and people find a way to blame ETH!
Literally every team would struggle with such an injury ridden squad.

I agree.

But once you go down the route of saying ETH has improved the existing players so much you can't then say "he needs all his players available to compete with Sevilla"

Both can't be true.

Not that you personally hace said that but plenty here have.

 

[HookedOnAPhelan]

I like ETH, but he has something to prove. He doesnt change tactics, no matter the opponent and no matter what players he has available. That's not good in my book. He has to change things up when Maguire is playing and especially when Maguire is paired with Lindelof and DDG is the GK. You cannot expect that team to control the game in the same extents as with others.

Also, we are looking solid for top 4 and already has a cup in the bag. If we get top 4 the season has been a success. If we fail top 4 now, then we should question his ability

It’s a sink-or-swim approach. Either prove you can play this type of football or you’re (hopefully) out. Arteta, Klopp and Pep all did this when they took over. We may take some short-term hits for it, but I think we’ll reap the rewards in the long-term.

 

[mav_9me]

There seem to be two camps of people currently when it comes to ETH assessment, you either dismiss his achievements or are willing to give him a free pass on almost anything that happens because he can't possibly do anything better with this current group of players.

I think several developments from this season are highly encouraging. We have been able to dominate lesser teams and win convincingly on a regular basis, which to be fair had not been the case for a while prior to now. Even in Ole's best seasons a lot of those wins felt lucky and relied on moments of brilliance, it's much more consistent now and it's a big improvement. It's also something he was able to translate 1:1 from his time at Ajax as that's basically how 90% of his games over there looked, with only 2-3 teams in Netherlands capable of going toe to toe with them at times. This is very important and lays good foundation for future because by disposing of lesser teams we almost guarantee that we are going to be in top 4 race every time, we will not fall away into obscurity the way Chelsea and Liverpool have this season, and it definitely provides us with a good platform for future. It also ensures that we can go far in cup competitions with some luck in draws - e.g. our League Cup run this year where we faced almost exclusively poor/weakened teams and got through them easily, we basically won a cup without facing a decent team until the final. It's encouraging.

His big game management has been largely poor, in particular away from home. We've made the same exact mistakes setting up against good teams at the beginning of season as we do now and there has been no improvement on that end whatsoever. Our game against Brentford in August was basically exactly the same as our game against Sevilla yesterday, just with different timing of goals, and our game against Liverpool basically mirrored our game against City earlier in the season. We should have lost by 5 to Newcastle as well while we are at it. You can put yesterday down to our defenders not being available but truth is we played exactly the same type of football and made the same mistakes when they were there. I don't really understand how you can be not concerned at all by this, we basically turn into a relegation fodder every single time we are away to a top team, there's no difference between us and Nottingham or Southampton, arguably we at times look even worse than some of the bottom half teams. I also don't buy it is strictly a personnel issue, yes we are lacking quality in many areas of the pitch but it doesn't justify being this horrible at all. The fact that we have made absolutely zero improvement on that end throughout the season, none whatsoever, is concerning because we definitely made a lot of improvements in our performance against weaker teams.

I hope he can learn from his mistakes and iron them out without relying on having the perfect team available at all times. This was one of key Ferguson's strengths, we could have gone out there with virtually any team and would almost never get hammered. We competed against good teams without midfield, we played Gibson and Cleverley for chunks of the game and were almost never ever battered. We always tried to fight back, we would never surrender in the middle of games and let ourselves be embarrassed. We could actually still win titles by being horrible against good teams and being great against weaker teams, as that's how the league works, but it's not sustainable over long run. And we can't always blame this on players not being available, it's going to happen time and time again in the future, we will have injuries, suspensions, we need to learn to deal with that and not throw in the towel each and every time we face adversity.

Between the two I am definitely in the later camp. But I agree with your post and criticism of ETH. I do wonder though from his point of view, if he is looking at the long term, by setting up the team this way in away games, saying these are the standards we need and you guys are not meeting it. Surely he can play more defensive/counter attack style but he chooses not to, to show the team what he wants, what the demands are, at the same time makes it obvious who can't stay with the squad.

He has been pragmatic in the Carabao cup final, let's see what he does against Brighton.

 

[Oldyella]

There’s quite simply a lot of players who I never want to see play for us again, and it’s not tough to work out who. If they’re still here next season, you have to ask questions of Ten Hag’s judgement to a certain extent.

I don’t judge him for having to play some of the slop right now, his hands are tied.

They may be tied when he tries to clear them out though. A lot of the squad are on big money contracts and will be hard to shift.

 

[mav_9me]

Like I said yesterday - he’ll be judged on how ruthless he is this summer. I have no doubt he will be ruthless.

I absolutely agree. But I worry about him being hampered by the board/ownership.

DDG is the litmus test for me.

 

[TheGodsInRed]

But wouldn't that eat into our already limited transfer budget? I considered perhaps loaning them to at least reduce the financial load, but we could barely find takers for Martial last season. Be even harder now. Goes double for Sancho and his criminal wage.

It's complicated as they amortise the fee accross the length of the contract now, so for example I read Atleti only need 55m for Felix to not take a loss on his remaining original contract, whereas they paid 120m.

So for example, if we are to sell Maguire, you can look at this: https://www.spotrac.com/epl/manchester-united-fc/harry-maguire-23718/ and roughly work out now much fee we will need to not declare a loss on him.

 

[mav_9me]

We are incredibly fortunate that Liverpool, Spurs & Chelsea are all having poor seasons.

He's taken some baffling approaches to some games this season. Yesterday was the worst of the lot. He knows these players now. With a CB pairing of Maguire & Lindelof & DeGea in goal he should know that the ball needs to be kept away from them as much as possible. It's complete stupidity to direct these players to pass it around between themselves, especially so against a pressing team.

I'm already sick of hearing his ''it's a lesson we take it'' comments. Going into a game trying to play possession football with 2 dud CB'S & a GK who's crap with his feet indicates he isn't learning anything. Rangnick get's alot of stick on here & rightly so. He did though learn early on that he couldn't get these same defenders to play football as they don't have the sufficient talents. If the ball went to DeGea he kicked it long straight away.

We are on course for 76 points. That has nothing to do with Chelsea, Liverpool or Spurs being poor. That would get us top 4 in every season if I am not mistaken.

 

[Sviken]

People didn’t make fun of him for thinking the players were shit. They made fun of him for how shit he was. Anybody could tell you the likes of Maguire had no business playing for United.

And what was Rangnick supposed to do when he wasn't allowed to buy or replace players? Ten Hag is doing a very good job, don't get me wrong, but the whole squad is still the same shit apart from Rashford. His backbone are his new players and we've seen what happens when we have no Casemiro, Martinez or Eriksen in the team.

 

[Crimson King]

We are incredibly fortunate that Liverpool, Spurs & Chelsea are all having poor seasons.

He's taken some baffling approaches to some games this season. Yesterday was the worst of the lot. He knows these players now. With a CB pairing of Maguire & Lindelof & DeGea in goal he should know that the ball needs to be kept away from them as much as possible. It's complete stupidity to direct these players to pass it around between themselves, especially so against a pressing team.

I'm already sick of hearing his ''it's a lesson we take it'' comments. Going into a game trying to play possession football with 2 dud CB'S & a GK who's crap with his feet indicates he isn't learning anything. Rangnick get's alot of stick on here & rightly so. He did though learn early on that he couldn't get these same defenders to play football as they don't have the sufficient talents. If the ball went to DeGea he kicked it long straight away.

And look how well that worked! We were absolutely abysmal under Rangnick.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

We are on course for 76 points. That has nothing to do with Chelsea, Liverpool or Spurs being poor. That would get us top 4 in every season if I am not mistaken.

We're also just as unlucky that Arsenal and City are having such great seasons cause if they weren't...

 

[Telsim]

It's complicated as they amortise the fee accross the length of the contract now, so for example I read Atleti only need 55m for Felix to not take a loss on his remaining original contract, whereas they paid 120m.

So for example, if we are to sell Maguire, you can look at this: https://www.spotrac.com/epl/manchester-united-fc/harry-maguire-23718/ and roughly work out now much fee we will need to not declare a loss on him.

Isn't contract amortisation done for the inital fee and just for accounting purposes and FFP? But the money is being paid nonetheless? And I think we'd be able to sell Maguire for some fee, but not Martial or Sancho. No one would pay the wages we do, and they've got no reason to leave for less.

Releasing them early would mean reaching a settlement, which almost certainly includes paying most if not all of their remaining wage for the duration of the contract. They have no reason to accept otherwise, even if they are sent to the U-21s for the reminder of the contract. Sancho is contracted until 2026, which means the club would have to pay him more than £60M to release. Obviously not possible. For Martial it would be, like £15M or something.

I think we are just stuck with them. But we could shift most of the rest... if we can replace them.

 

[Donut]

Would people be happier if we had Brighton’s play and points haul?

 

[Puskas_007]

It's a horrible situation, the lack of mentality and ability last night were plain to see, ETH will have made a decision to play his usual set-up in the full knowledge that it was a big ask, and look how that turned out.

This is all hindsight though, What the alternatives? (1) Taking what actually happened: Maguire requesting the ball in a ridiculous situation caused a terrible set-back and got the opposition and crowd up for it, the gameplan may have worked had that not happened (If but maybe) (2) ETH changes the gameplan and plays football to suit the team he put out, we play directly from the back and concede and are in the same situation and wobble because we're playing a different way than the way we've been training all season OR we play out directly from the back, Martial gets a goal and sets us on the way to a 3-0 victory... (If but maybe).

We're trying to play modern football, this is the first season, we're changing, and I think we do need to take it on the chin and move forward, we've got a trophy and if we finish top 4 we avoid embarrassment, but, there needs to be improvement next year, has to be, even if we're not challenging for the PL we need to see green shoots of how that might happen.

Being positive, things will work out, ETH's plan is sound, further signings make us better and on we go; being negative, next season wobbles, ETH fired and we change everything (AGAIN).

Looking at it overall, my biggest fear is tearing it all up and starting again, so, I think we hope the summer sees quality players that fit the plan coming in and we see green shoots of success on the horizon, and that hopefully includes not getting whipped the way we have this year and instead hand out a few ourselves...

 

[Sarni]

We're also just as unlucky that Arsenal and City are having such great seasons cause if they weren't...

We’d never be in a title race with this amount of points aside from the season when Leicester won it. And even then we wouldn’t have won it.