Don’t make me hit you with the bad stick. Bad. Bad.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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Don’t make me hit you with the bad stick. Bad. Bad.
All this nonsense about away form too. Had we been any better in our away games, we'd be challenging for the league. And clearly we're not there and were never going to be there. There are only two teams with a great away record and surprise, surprise, its the two teams in the title race.
There's so many excuses
3 of the goals were complete flukes. You'd be lucky to get one of those in the tie let alone 3. The other two goals also likely don't happen if we have our first choice CBs.
So, you are essentially saying that it's okay to concede 5 goals?
What about the 7 goals against LFC? Is that also a fluke?
What about the 6 goals conceded against MCFC a few months ago?
Or the 4 goals conceded against Brentford?
Are these all fluke goals which we should write off?
I'm not saying the ETH should be sacked. I actually think that he is doing a good job in his first year, but these thrashings cannot be swept under the carpet.
Our standards are so low now, that even when we get spanked, fans are accepting them as flukes.
If we are going to lose a game, don't get fecking spanked on both cheeks on the way out.
That is my most basic wish for next season and something that ten Hag should be able to achieve.
That is my most basic wish for next season and something that ten Hag should be able to achieve.
The answer to all of your questions is no. I was literally only talking about this tie and 3 of them were 100% flukes.
Won't criticize ETH yet. He's done a fine job this season and as long as we can get third with a trophy in his first season. It's a pretty good one.
Given the lemons he's been handed, he's made decent lemonade of it
Given the lemons he's been handed, he's made decent lemonade of it
He has a poor squad that has no right to be in third place. We’ve received batterings because of this. Deal with it.
Good point and those 2 teams both lost to us at Old Trafford. We are joint 3rd in away wins with 7. 5th in away points
Newcastle 16GP 7W 6D 2L 27 points
Brighton 15GP 7W 4D 4L 25 points
US 15GP 7W 2D 6L 23 points
So essentially the difference is ETH goes into away games looking to win instead of being content to play for a draw. Maybe that's something he needs to learn but the 6 away loses were
Brentford (early season)
Citeh
Villa (new manager bounce, beat them 4-2 days later)
Arsenal (tough break loss probably should have been a draw)
Liverpool (Anfield was difficult even for SAF)
Newcastle
Who said it's a miracle season. It's a good season. Before the season if somebody said top 4 and trophy, every single United fan would've snapped their hand off for it.
We literally have not had a better season post Sir Alex. We never won a trophy while finishing top 4 post Sir Alex. Ten Hags win rate is literally the highest of any United manager, ever. 1 season sample size, but all the same, it is a fact.
Whilst I think the players have to shoulder most the blame for yesterday I do think you could question ETH in his tactical flexibility.
We've seen enough of AWB, Maguire, DDG and to an extent Lindelof to know that they're not great on the ball and don't read the game as well so can get exposed for positioning/decision making. When surrounded with the likes of Varane, Shaw, Martinez as individuals you can cover that but when they're all out on the pitch together I think we have to recognise that we need to play differently for example make the midfield sit deeper and wingers be compact and take a more patient approach. Instead we continue to almost try and play in a very open way which our attack doesn't really justify as it's not like many of them are lethal enough to take the risk of an open game.
We've seen enough of AWB, Maguire, DDG and to an extent Lindelof to know that they're not great on the ball and don't read the game as well so can get exposed for positioning/decision making. When surrounded with the likes of Varane, Shaw, Martinez as individuals you can cover that but when they're all out on the pitch together I think we have to recognise that we need to play differently for example make the midfield sit deeper and wingers be compact and take a more patient approach. Instead we continue to almost try and play in a very open way which our attack doesn't really justify as it's not like many of them are lethal enough to take the risk of an open game.
Oh get off it, 2 years ago the squad finished 3rd and 2nd and Ten Hag got 250m to spend.. Deal with it.
It was shit, nobody is saying it wasn't. It doesn't change that the season is still a good season though. Expectations, targets are set in pre season. You can't change the expectations and targets as the year goes on, unless maybe in January you get another 300m to spend like Chelsea. You can have bad games and good games, but ultimately the targets are what they are, and looking back, top 4 and a trophy is a good season, just like before the season every United fan would've snapped someone's hand off for top 4 and a trophy.
Liverpool scored 7 in what many described as many fluke goals and that was with our starting backline. Whether it's starters or bench warmers, everyone has taken part of humiliating defeatsThere's so many excuses
3 of the goals were complete flukes. You'd be lucky to get one of those in the tie let alone 3. The other two goals also likely don't happen if we have our first choice CBs.
Of course. Was just talking about this specific game.
I wouldn’t say Liverpool’s were flukes though. It was just an extremely rare case of a team massively outperforming their xG. Every shot went in basically.
The money spent doesn’t matter. This squad needed seven to eight first team players last summer and only four were added. More work to do.
We have six top players and three or four decent ones beyond that. The rest could be fecked off without a second thought.
Third and a trophy, alongside the Ronaldo nonsense, injury list and ownership turmoil, is miraculous.
But you must think we’re better, so good luck with the foreseeable. You’re going to be very angry while reality continues to jab you on the nose.
Many of them were flukey, balls rebounding all over the place to just finally rest ideally for an easy finish for them. Flukey goals help outperforming your xG
He has to adapt further in the away games. Our pressing is too man-oriented and when the players are off their game, as we have seen so many times this season, we cannot cope with intensity. We also seem unable to control games and resort to kicking it long too often, I failed to count how many times Eriksen blasted a ball into Sancho yesterday, who just failed to do anything useful when surrounded by 4-5 players.
I don't really like using other manager's struggles to vindicate a manager. We did this to death with all previous managers, pointing out Ferguson's first years etc. The fact someone else was crap initially and turned out good has no relevance to any future events, it just indicates a possibility but one that is not definite or certain in any way. Manager like Pep is obviously going to get a lot more benefit of doubt that any other manager ever would due to his career record.
How about.. if you're losing a game, keep trying to win it.
Because that's how this often happens.
"Performance was unacceptable". I am getting tired of hearing that quote from him after big games.
I mean, people will complain about absolutely everything at this point. A few years ago, we had an horrendous home record. We've sorted that and have become an actual force again at OT, so folk have moved on to our away form. Did anyone expect everything to be fixed in one season? Like i said, win away at Arsenal and Chelsea and we're in the title race i.e. we're one of the best teams in England... which we aren't and were never going to be in one season.
Just for comparisons sake, Peps record away to the top 7 in his first season was:
1 win, 1 draw and 4 losses.
Yeah, I agree - it does help in painting a picture when comparisons will always be needed for some context. If we look at the facts from this season. We're 3rd in the league, won the Carabao cup, eliminated in the QF in the EL and have a semi-final on Sunday. Hardly a season to be crying about.
True, how many did we score again?There's so many excuses
3 of the goals were complete flukes. You'd be lucky to get one of those in the tie let alone 3. The other two goals also likely don't happen if we have our first choice CBs.
I don't know why people are surprised that there are issues in the squad that get exposed at certain times. It is no coincidence that the same players who have let the team down in the past continue to do so. Marguire, Martial, De Gea, Fred, McTominay, AWB all for different reasons and to varying extent, all get exposed either at the very top level or when there is massive pressure. ETH has improved some of the players in the squad and even some of those just named, but he cannot simply transform players that are not good enough into players that are.
Season expectations change, but I thought before the season just finishing top 4 and nothing else would be an accomplishment. To get a cup and finish top 4 puts ETH ahead of schedule in my eyes. Of course, there was an obvious chance to win the Europa here and the manner of going out is concerning. But again, it is nothing new with some of these players. It is telling to me that the players the manager has brought in have largely done well or show good signs for the future. He has also gotten a tune from some already here, which shows he does improve players.
This squad needed major surgery last season and was only patched up despite the fantastic window last summer. Not to go again in January with 1 or 2 signings was a mistake and largely is costing the team now. Some fans are still denying the low quality of the squad but until certain players are no longer at the club and have been replaced by better players, these nights will continue to happen. Maguire is the notable example, a player it is easy to start feeling sorry for but who then delivers the kinds of performances that made him a meme in the first place. If he was the only player who regresses to norm when the pressure is on it would be fine, but there are 4-5 players like that.
I think the big problem for ETH is the team was clicking at certain points during the season and the "United are back" headlines and conversations started. The reality is United a partially back but there is work to do. I will repeat my feelings on ETH, he is an elite coach/manager and if United are not careful with him he will simply go somewhere else and win everything. He is not the problem here. That does not mean he doesn't make mistakes, but often trying to build something with less than optimum resources brings out mistakes. I remember Klopp and Guardiola getting called out during their first seasons and ETH's is more impressive. We need to address the squad before we even start looking at issues with the manager.
Season expectations change, but I thought before the season just finishing top 4 and nothing else would be an accomplishment. To get a cup and finish top 4 puts ETH ahead of schedule in my eyes. Of course, there was an obvious chance to win the Europa here and the manner of going out is concerning. But again, it is nothing new with some of these players. It is telling to me that the players the manager has brought in have largely done well or show good signs for the future. He has also gotten a tune from some already here, which shows he does improve players.
This squad needed major surgery last season and was only patched up despite the fantastic window last summer. Not to go again in January with 1 or 2 signings was a mistake and largely is costing the team now. Some fans are still denying the low quality of the squad but until certain players are no longer at the club and have been replaced by better players, these nights will continue to happen. Maguire is the notable example, a player it is easy to start feeling sorry for but who then delivers the kinds of performances that made him a meme in the first place. If he was the only player who regresses to norm when the pressure is on it would be fine, but there are 4-5 players like that.
I think the big problem for ETH is the team was clicking at certain points during the season and the "United are back" headlines and conversations started. The reality is United a partially back but there is work to do. I will repeat my feelings on ETH, he is an elite coach/manager and if United are not careful with him he will simply go somewhere else and win everything. He is not the problem here. That does not mean he doesn't make mistakes, but often trying to build something with less than optimum resources brings out mistakes. I remember Klopp and Guardiola getting called out during their first seasons and ETH's is more impressive. We need to address the squad before we even start looking at issues with the manager.
People want instant everything these days, it's getting very tiresome.
They also refuse to acknowledge context, both within this season and the issues the team have faced, but also the wider context of the club being poorly run for years now.
It's been a tough job this season, but if you step back and look at it fully you can see that EtH has done an admirable job.
There seem to be two camps of people currently when it comes to ETH assessment, you either dismiss his achievements or are willing to give him a free pass on almost anything that happens because he can't possibly do anything better with this current group of players.
I think several developments from this season are highly encouraging. We have been able to dominate lesser teams and win convincingly on a regular basis, which to be fair had not been the case for a while prior to now. Even in Ole's best seasons a lot of those wins felt lucky and relied on moments of brilliance, it's much more consistent now and it's a big improvement. It's also something he was able to translate 1:1 from his time at Ajax as that's basically how 90% of his games over there looked, with only 2-3 teams in Netherlands capable of going toe to toe with them at times. This is very important and lays good foundation for future because by disposing of lesser teams we almost guarantee that we are going to be in top 4 race every time, we will not fall away into obscurity the way Chelsea and Liverpool have this season, and it definitely provides us with a good platform for future. It also ensures that we can go far in cup competitions with some luck in draws - e.g. our League Cup run this year where we faced almost exclusively poor/weakened teams and got through them easily, we basically won a cup without facing a decent team until the final. It's encouraging.
His big game management has been largely poor, in particular away from home. We've made the same exact mistakes setting up against good teams at the beginning of season as we do now and there has been no improvement on that end whatsoever. Our game against Brentford in August was basically exactly the same as our game against Sevilla yesterday, just with different timing of goals, and our game against Liverpool basically mirrored our game against City earlier in the season. We should have lost by 5 to Newcastle as well while we are at it. You can put yesterday down to our defenders not being available but truth is we played exactly the same type of football and made the same mistakes when they were there. I don't really understand how you can be not concerned at all by this, we basically turn into a relegation fodder every single time we are away to a top team, there's no difference between us and Nottingham or Southampton, arguably we at times look even worse than some of the bottom half teams. I also don't buy it is strictly a personnel issue, yes we are lacking quality in many areas of the pitch but it doesn't justify being this horrible at all. The fact that we have made absolutely zero improvement on that end throughout the season, none whatsoever, is concerning because we definitely made a lot of improvements in our performance against weaker teams.
I hope he can learn from his mistakes and iron them out without relying on having the perfect team available at all times. This was one of key Ferguson's strengths, we could have gone out there with virtually any team and would almost never get hammered. We competed against good teams without midfield, we played Gibson and Cleverley for chunks of the game and were almost never ever battered. We always tried to fight back, we would never surrender in the middle of games and let ourselves be embarrassed. We could actually still win titles by being horrible against good teams and being great against weaker teams, as that's how the league works, but it's not sustainable over long run. And we can't always blame this on players not being available, it's going to happen time and time again in the future, we will have injuries, suspensions, we need to learn to deal with that and not throw in the towel each and every time we face adversity.
I think several developments from this season are highly encouraging. We have been able to dominate lesser teams and win convincingly on a regular basis, which to be fair had not been the case for a while prior to now. Even in Ole's best seasons a lot of those wins felt lucky and relied on moments of brilliance, it's much more consistent now and it's a big improvement. It's also something he was able to translate 1:1 from his time at Ajax as that's basically how 90% of his games over there looked, with only 2-3 teams in Netherlands capable of going toe to toe with them at times. This is very important and lays good foundation for future because by disposing of lesser teams we almost guarantee that we are going to be in top 4 race every time, we will not fall away into obscurity the way Chelsea and Liverpool have this season, and it definitely provides us with a good platform for future. It also ensures that we can go far in cup competitions with some luck in draws - e.g. our League Cup run this year where we faced almost exclusively poor/weakened teams and got through them easily, we basically won a cup without facing a decent team until the final. It's encouraging.
His big game management has been largely poor, in particular away from home. We've made the same exact mistakes setting up against good teams at the beginning of season as we do now and there has been no improvement on that end whatsoever. Our game against Brentford in August was basically exactly the same as our game against Sevilla yesterday, just with different timing of goals, and our game against Liverpool basically mirrored our game against City earlier in the season. We should have lost by 5 to Newcastle as well while we are at it. You can put yesterday down to our defenders not being available but truth is we played exactly the same type of football and made the same mistakes when they were there. I don't really understand how you can be not concerned at all by this, we basically turn into a relegation fodder every single time we are away to a top team, there's no difference between us and Nottingham or Southampton, arguably we at times look even worse than some of the bottom half teams. I also don't buy it is strictly a personnel issue, yes we are lacking quality in many areas of the pitch but it doesn't justify being this horrible at all. The fact that we have made absolutely zero improvement on that end throughout the season, none whatsoever, is concerning because we definitely made a lot of improvements in our performance against weaker teams.
I hope he can learn from his mistakes and iron them out without relying on having the perfect team available at all times. This was one of key Ferguson's strengths, we could have gone out there with virtually any team and would almost never get hammered. We competed against good teams without midfield, we played Gibson and Cleverley for chunks of the game and were almost never ever battered. We always tried to fight back, we would never surrender in the middle of games and let ourselves be embarrassed. We could actually still win titles by being horrible against good teams and being great against weaker teams, as that's how the league works, but it's not sustainable over long run. And we can't always blame this on players not being available, it's going to happen time and time again in the future, we will have injuries, suspensions, we need to learn to deal with that and not throw in the towel each and every time we face adversity.
Says it all that after every loss you get 100 times more posts in this thread than the Glazers out one. You want to know the real reason for our troubles? Losing starts from the top. Erik could be prime SAF and he would still be struggling in this organisational culture. If fans put the same energy and brain power into getting them out rather than analysing the manager we may have already built a winning culture.
He needs to fire that set piece guy. We never score any set pieces and we're terrible at defending them. Why is he still doing it?
It's well known we should be scoring more goals. Again I'm not sure why people are making up arguments that I agree with.
Yep. And how people overlook that is astonishing.
"We didn't turn up" is a phrase which players used a lot this season. That means that mental match preparation isn't good.
Croatia NT has average manager in Dalic. Manager who is levels and levels bellow ETH (who is tactically very good manager).
But Dalic knows his stuff about motivation. That is on which ETH must work. The way how we lose big games is completely unacceptable.
Right, if money spent dont matter, I do not want you to complain if the Glazers stay and we dont spend money. Cause apparently money spent does not matter.
Secondly, no football team gets 8 first team players in one window, that is pure delusion if you think that will happen.
Finally, every team has their own injuries to deal with, we are not the only football club with injuries. Newcastle were facing relegation and are in CL places, Villa were 16th this season and a change of manager has them at 6th, Arteta finished 8th, 5th, 5th and is now clear on top..
Going from 6th to 3rd is not a miracle...
I think Ten Hag is doing a good job but no way near a miracle.
Only if you can win it. If you're just going gung-ho and end up losing 5-0 instead of 2-0, it does your goal difference no good.
Whilst impressive, the bottom 10 in the league are complete trash. And Emery is a bloody good manager.
Also we picked up 58 points in the entirety of last season and have eclipsed that tally with 8 games left.
Like I said yesterday - he’ll be judged on how ruthless he is this summer. I have no doubt he will be ruthless.
I like Ten Hag quite a lot, and if he is able and willing to be ruthless in the summer then he’ll continue to be a success. His post match comments have been interesting for a little while now, he’s diplomatic but mentions the lack of desire quite often. I think he is as clued up about the players as everyone watching, but he’s not going the Ralf route of directly calling them out and sabotaging the season. Get him a decent keeper, a solid centre back, another midfielder and a natural striker and we will be more consistent, even if the signings aren’t world class.
So not many excuses if any then, like I said.
People were making fun of Rangnick but he was spot on it seems. It's not just the skill that's the problem here, it's the mentality. Half of these players are relegation-tier jobbers in terms of mental strength.
It is not about away defeats. It is the way how we lost those games.
Look, lots of our performances showed that with 3-4 new players we can challenge for title and play pretty nice football. That is all good. And that is why nobody has doubts about is ETH good enough for Man Utd. Because he IS!
But our performances in basically all big away games are becoming an issue and huge question mark for future. Because in most of those games we played with (more or less) best 11.
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