So individual mistakes then?
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
- Thread starter sewey89
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You need to consider the team he took over and where we were last summer as a club and team. He took over a team where many said we have zero chance yet at one point we were close to City and played decent football. The sheer amount of games caught up now and with all these injuries, he needs to play the B side which we all knew is shit and lack character. On top he had to handle the Ronaldo situation and got a shitty 2m for the loan, so what do you expect we can get for that money in winter
Hmm do you even remember how last season ended and this season start 2 games? A new manager trusted some old players including captain of the club and got bit at the start. The 2 big culprits from first 2 games were the same culprit last night. But issue last evening is manager didnt have a choice with maguire due to injuries.
Also similar to liverpool/chelsea downfall if Arsenal were not so improved you could argue we would be 2nd at the moment only to city and that would look amazing on paper. So its a silly argument to make.
People saying he needs to be backed.....he got 250m last summer. That was more than everyone bar Chelsea.
We signed Casemiro, Martinez, Antony and Malacia and we have won 1 away game against the top 12 all season.
ETH is setting the team up to fail away from home clearly. We just aren't compact enough and are so easy to play through.
We signed Casemiro, Martinez, Antony and Malacia and we have won 1 away game against the top 12 all season.
ETH is setting the team up to fail away from home clearly. We just aren't compact enough and are so easy to play through.
Whilst we don’t convert enough I don’t think the issue of Sancho is anywhere near the defensive ones we have. I’ve been saying this since the OgS days, for as bad as the attack can be we don’t have a defence & goalkeeper who you can rely upon to not concede.
We were terrible offensively last night but you’re 1-0 down in 10 minutes & the defence/midfield are wide open. We don’t give ourselves the platform to let our offence grow into games a lot of the time.
This is true. Regardless of the squad he has at his disposal, my one concern is the inability to send the team out ‘not to lose’. Even SAF knew there was a time & place for simply not losing games.
That is shocking. I’ve had no faith in us outside of OT for good reason it seems.
Good luck selling any of those bar McTominay for good fees. The rest are on far too much money for their current ability/form/public perception.
Anyone who thinks we have top 4 sorted needs to look at the stat you replied to, we have Brighton and West Ham away in the same week and we have Spurs away next Thursday.
Teams know to press us when we have Maguire and Lindelof at CB and they will get joy.
You won't be able to sell any of these players due to the ridiculous wages you pay them.
We will have to beat Villa, Chelsea, Wolves and Fulham all at home and maybe Bournemouth away. That would probably see us over the line.
Don't fancy us at Spurs, Brighton and Westham, especially if Varane misses out. In fact if we go to those places and try and play out from the back we could get battered again.
Yeah it's now got to a point where it can't really be ignored. We're making progress but there's a massive issue here that needs correcting.
It's not all on the players either he needs to be pragmatic and do what it takes to win those games because the team/squad is good enough to do so.
It'd be interesting to know what the plan was last night with Casemiro. Was he supposed to be that high up? Or did he go rogue?
If managerial ‘form’ is a thing then he’s dropped off a bit the last few weeks.
Thanks for confirming what I just said.
They same lot broke the Premier undefeated away record under Ole. They have in them, the manager has to figure it out.
He surely has to be backed. The squad needs lots of improvement still. He’s done really well, advanced well in all competitions and holds a good position in the league. Eventually, injuries and fatigue hurt us. No squad players to come in and fill the gap
In Empty grounds I might add. They shit their pants every time they face noisy away crowd
He wasn't particularly high up the pitch. His issue is he could barely moveto cover space. He looked like an old man last night.
Ah yes, the old away record when crowds weren’t there that wasn’t evident before or since.
I can’t believe I’m hearing these players have it in them in 2023. 7-0 at Anfield, 6-3 at the Etihad, 4-0 wherever the hell Brentford play, 3-0 last night. That’s only this season. Go back over the last 3/4 years & you’ll see exactly what these players have in them.
Top 4 and a trophy while reaching the FA Cup semi finals and Europa quarter finals (beating Barcelona on the way) isn't impressive or a good season for you?
I'm sorry but what the feck did you expect? Did your brain shut off for the past decade and forget what the reality of the club has been? You expect a title challenge asap? Win every single trophy with just 1 summer window? fecks sake
Top 4 and a league cup trophy is a decent season but let's not act like it's a miracle, considering that Liverpool and Chelsea are having the worst season of their lifes.
And in terms of pure results we did have similar or better seasons than this in the post Fergie era.
These kind of posts convince me we will never improve.
He was at times. They were countering and he was nowhere to be seen. Really high up. The opposite of where a DM should be.
Plus as you say, he was struggling to get round the pitch.
Yeah, I dont get some fans either. Top 4 and a trophy is a good season, especially in Ten Hag's first season.
However; it is not a miracle because we have seen awful performances too many times this season, its not a one off. Every 5/6 games there is a bad bad performance.
You cannot go into a season where you fail to compete in 6/8 games. losing is one thing, it happens where you lose games but failure to play and turn up is not excusable.
Yes, players will be blamed but EtH also gets enough praise for improving players, so why can't he be blamed for these performances that keep happening?
We would still be top 4 of Liverpool wasn’t as bad and Chelsea have been a mess for 18 months now.
There’s a bad habit of trying to quantify our season against others only if they’re winning every week and that’s not how it works. Our projected points total is good enough for top 4 every other year.
You could also turn that around and say it’s a great season because Arsenal and Newcastle are having their best seasons in decades out of nowhere so it’s a two way street
Considering how bad we were last season, and how terrible our past two transfer windows have been, I'm happy with the progress being shown in our general play when we have something resembling a first team out.
The problem is we've only bought one good player in Martinez. Malacia is decent for a squad option, but we didn't need squad options. We needed quality going into our first eleven.
Casemiro and Eriksen weren't good deals. Weghorst and Sabitzer weren't good loans. Antony could potentially be decent but, for the money he cost, it wasn't a good deal as it limited our spending elsewhere.
The next transfer window is make or break in the summer. No more lightweight players. We need strong, press resistant players. Players who can shield the ball, who have the agility to turn away from their marker, players who can dribble so that we can make use of counter attacks and offer a new dimension in breaking down opposition defences. Until we sign players of that ilk, we're going nowhere regardless of who our manager is.
The problem is we've only bought one good player in Martinez. Malacia is decent for a squad option, but we didn't need squad options. We needed quality going into our first eleven.
Casemiro and Eriksen weren't good deals. Weghorst and Sabitzer weren't good loans. Antony could potentially be decent but, for the money he cost, it wasn't a good deal as it limited our spending elsewhere.
The next transfer window is make or break in the summer. No more lightweight players. We need strong, press resistant players. Players who can shield the ball, who have the agility to turn away from their marker, players who can dribble so that we can make use of counter attacks and offer a new dimension in breaking down opposition defences. Until we sign players of that ilk, we're going nowhere regardless of who our manager is.
As others have said, the squad is more than good enough to have performed better than it has done away from home. One away win against teams in the top 12 isn't good enough, regardless of injuries and fatigue (which every team has to deal with). I have full faith it will improve next season after a good summer with players he doesn't trust being moved on and new ones coming in.
Yeh well said. The argument that we're only 3rd because Chelsea and Liverpool are bad is dumb as feck.
I never see them come out after half time fired up, if that indicates anything important anymore i don't know
There needs to be some nuance to these discussions.Top 4 and a trophy while reaching the FA Cup semi finals and Europa quarter finals (beating Barcelona on the way) isn't impressive or a good season for you?
I'm sorry but what the feck did you expect? Did your brain shut off for the past decade and forget what the reality of the club has been? You expect a title challenge asap? Win every single trophy with just 1 summer window? fecks sake
Going out in the Quarter Finals of the Europa League to a barely mid table Spanish team having been 2-0 up in the first leg can’t simply be justified as ‘ok’ because we beat Barca & you didn’t expect much in August of last year.
If seasons are simply defined by expectations 7/8 months ago then what’s the point playing the games.
Is Manchester United going out of the Europa now the end of the world? Of course not but given the competition & the way the draw panned out it is disappointing to not go further.
No one expects EtH to win every trophy after 1 Summer so if you’re going to challenge him do so without being disingenuous. Last night was a failure, hopefully EtH learns from it but you can’t pre-season away that tie, it was terribly managed on & off the pitch.
Why do people keep forgetting its his first season here. The process takes time. If I told you when ETH was hired we’d be where we are you would be ecstatic. People need to keep their expectations in check.
Ragnick said we needed open heart surgery and everyone agreed but now they want ETH to perform with the same squad. Ridiculous.
Even Pep was in top four scrap in his first season and that City squad was streets ahead of us.
At least give ETH a season before brandishing the knives.
Both of our starting CBs out, Bruno out, Rashford just back from injury and people find a way to blame ETH!
Literally every team would struggle with such an injury ridden squad.
Literally every team would struggle with such an injury ridden squad.
The squad Ten Hag inherited was significantly worse than any squad any manager has picked up post-Ferguson.
I said when he was appointed that I didn’t think he stood a chance here. To his credit, he’s worked miracles with what he’s got. A few injuries to the few genuinely good players we have here and we’re fielding the same shite we were fielding under Rangnick.
We need at least six players this summer.
Agreed. It was a failure but the season on the whole looks like it will be a positive one. In terms of ETH he needs to be decisive, the longer he sticks with the old guard and doesn't cut them adrift the longer they will disappoint him in key moments. DDG, Maguire, Martial and Mctom need to go and high quality replacements brought in. This season featured about 4-5 changes to our starting eleven and we should be aiming for similar next year as well. Once the large majority of the starting 11 are ETH players I think we will see our football go up another level.
There's so many excuses
3 of the goals were complete flukes. You'd be lucky to get one of those in the tie let alone 3. The other two goals also likely don't happen if we have our first choice CBs.
It's a good season but let's not act like it's a miracle now. That's the point.
maguire
Sancho
Awb
Bailey
Jones
Mctom
Fred
Martial
Elanga
Donny
Lindelof
B Williams
how much you reckon for them then?
In front of empty stands, it's important to mention.
Not sure anybody is saying it’s a miracle?
The season needs to be taken as a whole, and if he finishes the season around his current very strong win rate, and gets top four in addition to the League Cup that is a strong first season considering where we were a year ago.
During this time he's navigated the Ronaldo situation, a ridiculous injury and suspension crisis, got Rashford playing at a top level again all the while with the ownership debacle rumbling on.
What he needs to work on the most is the mentality of the squad - fortunately he seems to have long since identified this as a problem, he just needs to figure out the answer. Much of the issue will be solved with squad turnover, but a good degree of it needs to come from him and his coaching team as well.
During this time he's navigated the Ronaldo situation, a ridiculous injury and suspension crisis, got Rashford playing at a top level again all the while with the ownership debacle rumbling on.
What he needs to work on the most is the mentality of the squad - fortunately he seems to have long since identified this as a problem, he just needs to figure out the answer. Much of the issue will be solved with squad turnover, but a good degree of it needs to come from him and his coaching team as well.
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