Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[Andycoleno9]

I can't put one quote out of my head; "Team lacked desire and passion". Him and Shaw both said that.
How is that shit happening again? And tbf, i don't know anymore who to blame for that. Everything starts from the manager of course and its his job to keep players hungry and competitive but wtf is with our players? I have a feeling that i read that excuse about passion over and over and over for few years now.

Ffs, i would sell them all now. From Dave to Rashford and buy 25 new players.

 

[kouroux]

I‘m reading a lot of points that I agree with, but people are putting too much weight on the influence of tactics and line-ups.

First and foremost: you have to bring desire, passion and work your arse off on the pitch. This is a basic requirement. Without it, tactics and formation mean little.

Yesterday most of our players looked like limp dicks. You can‘t play Hag ball with limp dicks. It‘s like trying to punch with hot dog fingered hands.

If we can‘t win any duels or get to second balls, we can‘t have any grip on the game. Certainly not against Newcastle.

I‘m struggling to see how we could have lined up better, without Casemiro and Eriksen available.

Let‘s remember to give Hag time to build his team with more time on the training pitch and more signings. There has been precious little training time.

2 easy decisions to begin with. Don't play McT as a 10 and don't start Weghorst

 

[MadMike]

I‘m struggling to see how we could have lined up better, without Casemiro and Eriksen available.

I don’t know how you struggle tbh, it doesn’t really take that much imagination.

He could have started Martial instead of Weghorst who we know offers nothing. He could and should have started Fred in midfield. And if he had learned anything from previous thumpings away from home, and especially given the absence of Casemiro, is that he should have stacked the midfield more.

Play 4-3-3 with Fred, Sab & McTominay. Drop Weghorst and either start Martial or play Fernandes as false 9.

The idea that he set up in the best possible way and that it’s only the players who failed him is not just dumb, but it’s harmfully dumb. The manager needs to learn and adapt and he’s clearly not doing that at the moment. And he’s not going to do that if fans and pundits keep shifting the whole blame onto the players when this inevitably happens again.

He plays the same system regardless of the opposition and the players he has available. Plays 4-2-3-1 whether he’s playing Fulham at home or City away. Then gets shocked when he doesn’t control the midfield and he loses every single game against the top 10 away.

What is more possible, that our players magically lack motivation but only on the away games against the top table teams? Or that his tactical inflexibility is costing us?

 

[Marwood]

I can't put one quote out of my head; "Team lacked desire and passion". Him and Shaw both said that.
How is that shit happening again? And tbf, i don't know anymore who to blame for that. Everything starts from the manager of course and its his job to keep players hungry and competitive but wtf is with our players? I have a feeling that i read that excuse about passion over and over and over for few years now.

Ffs, i would sell them all now. From Dave to Rashford and buy 25 new players.

Because the real answer i.e. we're not good enough, is a tough one to say in an interview.

 

[soapythecat]

Yesterday was the first time I’ve doubted ETH. That second half management was shocking - even the commentators were like WTF!
He needs to get a grip of this team, and quick, because we know these cnuts will down tools if they think they can shift the blame onto a manager.
Stop the WW nonsense and leave him well away from the team.
Put Dalot on the bench forever.
Not sure how we get through the next two games with the current central midfield, but it needs sorting out - we are so easy to play against without Casemiro.
Draft in a witch doctor to get Martial through the rest of the season.
Don’t feck this up ETH - we have/had such high hopes!

 

[dannyrhinos89]

Yesterday was the first time I’ve doubted ETH. That second half management was shocking - even the commentators were like WTF!
He needs to get a grip of this team, and quick, because we know these cnuts will down tools if they think they can shift the blame onto a manager.
Stop the WW nonsense and leave him well away from the team.
Put Dalot on the bench forever.
Not sure how we get through the next two games with the current central midfield, but it needs sorting out - we are so easy to play against without Casemiro.
Draft in a witch doctor to get Martial through the rest of the season.
Don’t feck this up ETH - we have/had such high hopes!

pretty much my thoughts exactly the only option we have for midfield is Fred, I mean he is by far the best midfielder we have if Casemiro and Erikeen are injured/suspended so he has to start.

 

[The_Order]

Agreed, some players can no longer justify their starting positios.

Hopefully, with Martial back, we can end the WW experiment.

Was disappointed to see him emerge at half-time.

 

[SAFMUTD]

You've been trying to "hit gold" for seasons come and gone.

The football has not improved and once again is regressing.

ETH has not given any indication that he wants to build a team with a certain style of play.

You're being lied to and accepting it.

We're in a bad patch at the moment, but if you can't see that the football improved and see no indication of a certain style then I think we're watching different matches.

 

[bosnian_red]

Yesterday was the first time I’ve doubted ETH. That second half management was shocking - even the commentators were like WTF!
He needs to get a grip of this team, and quick, because we know these cnuts will down tools if they think they can shift the blame onto a manager.
Stop the WW nonsense and leave him well away from the team.
Put Dalot on the bench forever.
Not sure how we get through the next two games with the current central midfield, but it needs sorting out - we are so easy to play against without Casemiro.
Draft in a witch doctor to get Martial through the rest of the season.
Don’t feck this up ETH - we have/had such high hopes!

No manager is perfect and gets every game right. Sometimes they'll get it wrong. Important to show flexibility to be able to change it.
Give him time to show that essentially. No use in overreacting to individual losses when we are on course to achieve all our targets or start doubting them. Even the best, sir Alex and Pep, regularly had/have games where they just got it wrong.

 

[Skills]

He's overseen some dire performances lately but I'm less interested in slagging him off now and more interested to see what he does in the off-season. Certain performances like yesterday can be explained by fatigue so we will need to build the squad in a way that allows us to rotate when our players aren't on top form. We've been far too reliant on Rashford and Casemiro this season, and to a lesser extent Bruno as we have no other options at AM. Sabitzer was a good punt as was Wout, if only because we were completely out of options after the Ronaldo saga.

I'm inclined to think Sancho is the biggest problem squad-wise that EtH has to address. He could be both Rashford's and Bruno's understudy but he continuously fails at both.

Terrified at the thought of him spunking another £80m on a forward who can't score or assist.

 

[Irwin99]

De Gea stopped the defeat from being 5 nil

That really isn't true at all. The two saves in the first half were straight at him and just bad finishes and the big save in the second half was fantastic but was him rectifying his own mistake. I've always liked De Gea but we're overpraising him for the most simple saves so we can defend him.

Personally I don't think replacing de gea is as big a priority as a new striker, a midfielder and a right back but the weaknesses in his game seem to be becoming more noticeable every week.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Did he say anything about McT/Wout combo? What was his plan with that?

 

[MadMike]

Yesterday was the first time I’ve doubted ETH. That second half management was shocking - even the commentators were like WTF!
He needs to get a grip of this team, and quick, because we know these cnuts will down tools if they think they can shift the blame onto a manager.
Stop the WW nonsense and leave him well away from the team.
Put Dalot on the bench forever.
Not sure how we get through the next two games with the current central midfield, but it needs sorting out - we are so easy to play against without Casemiro.
Draft in a witch doctor to get Martial through the rest of the season.
Don’t feck this up ETH - we have/had such high hopes!

Not to defend the players, but in any job if your manager is showing signs of incompetence or is hindering, rather than enabling, your team to do its job with his choices… morale drops and performance is inevitably affected.

For example, we have a goal shy team and everyone knows it. But if you play Weghorst every week when he’s so ineffective that his teammates are becoming reluctant to pass the ball to him, then any criticism you throw onto the players (like questioning their desire) when you’re not fixing the selection/tactics issues, will just wash off their backs. They’ll see you as a problem and someone who is deflecting the problem onto them.

That is to some extent natural. You will do your job to the minimum required level but you won’t magically find extra motivation and determination when you don’t trust the man in charge.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Not to defend the players, but in any job if your manager is showing signs of incompetence or is hindering, rather than enabling, your team to do its job with his choices… morale drops and performance is inevitably affected.

For example, we have a goal shy team and everyone knows it. But if you play Weghorst every week when he’s so ineffective that his teammates are becoming reluctant to pass the ball to him, then any criticism you throw onto the players (like questioning their desire) when you’re not fixing the selection/tactics issues, will just wash off their backs. They’ll see you as a problem and someone who is deflecting the problem onto them.

You will do your job you won’t magically find extra motivation and determination when you don’t trust the man in charge.

Not to defend the players….

…three paragraphs defending the players.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

There's definitely been some progress under ETH and it's still early days.

However getting whacked 6 or 7 at City and Liverpool again will certainly not be tolerated and nor should it. And our away form is abject in general. It's like we forget how to pass the ball away from home constantly.

Lots of work still needs to be done but I have faith he can do the job we need him to.

 

[Lecland07]

I think people need to remember that this team is still weak.

We bought Eriksen and Casemiro for our midfield for a reason: it was incredibly low quality. We haven't had Eriksen available for months, and Casemiro has decided to give himself a holiday every so often. Do people think our performances are going to really be better than last season with both of them not playing? We have lost any control in games, which we were starting to gain.

Rashford is our only reliable goal scorer. It was predictable that if he stopped scoring, we were going to have major issues. He has been carrying our front line all season. Martial has injured himself every time he touches a blade of grass, Sancho disappeared and has continued his disappointing form. Garnacho looked promising but is young and injured.

We are going to concede more goals when we cede so much possession, and only one threat in our front line.

 

[MadMike]

Not to defend the players….

…three paragraphs defending the players.

The point was that the players are not SOLELY to blame. They deserve criticism too and I wasn’t seeking to defend them from criticism, but to equally spread the criticism on the manager for his decision making impacting our away form. Which I think is appropriate to do.

Lot’s of people in here think ETH is faultless and doing the best anyone could have possibly done with the squad. If you also think so, then you might find that my post was defending the players.

 

[youngrell]

I think people need to remember that this team is still weak.

We bought Eriksen and Casemiro for our midfield for a reason: it was incredibly low quality. We haven't had Eriksen available for months, and Casemiro has decided to give himself a holiday every so often. Do people think our performances are going to really be better than last season with both of them not playing? We have lost any control in games, which we were starting to gain.

Rashford is our only reliable goal scorer. It was predictable that if he stopped scoring, we were going to have major issues. He has been carrying our front line all season. Martial has injured himself every time he touches a blade of grass, Sancho disappeared and has continued his disappointing form. Garnacho looked promising but is young and injured.

We are going to concede more goals when we cede so much possession, and only one threat in our front line.

Yep. It was bad enough with just Eriksen missing, but without Casemiro there is zero balance to our midfield as all the other options offer pretty much the same level of ineptitude in defending the middle of the pitch. It upsets the balance of the whole team.

We can just about survive when one is out, but both of them gone is a disaster. We need quality reinforcements in the summer with defined roles.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

Did Ten Hag really pick McTomminay for that role purely on the back of him scoring a few goals for Scotland last week, irrespective of just how abject he has always been when wearing a red shirt? Is he really that naive? Seriously, I could not work out a single thing that he was trying to achieve yesterday, and I’m still waiting for someone to even try and explain to me why at 1-0 down and with about 10 minutes to go he thought bringing Lindelof on whilst taking off both Varane and Martinez was going to do anything other than gift them another goal to make the game safe? Even on his crackpot days I don’t think even Ole came up with such a ridiculous ‘plan’. I sincerely hope this is not a sign that Ten Hag is on the cusp of losing the plot after generally getting things right since he arrived, but I must admit that I am now becoming very concerned at the decisions he is making.

Surely the penny must be dropping now for those of us who thought we were nailed on for top four. We were abject against Liverpool, Southampton and Fulham in the cup so this slide must be arrested. These next two home games are absolutely must wins or we can kiss top four goodbye, especially with away games to come at Brighton, Spurs and even West Ham, who always wants to beat us. In fact, we’ll probably struggle at Forest and Bournemouth as well.

No, i don't think he did. We are trying to deal with the fact that we can't pick our preferred midfield partnership for a series of games. If you've watched his interviews, he constantly praises Casemiro and Erksen's ability to connect the midfield with the attack by finding the first-time pass through the lines. We often find ourselves in a position where we lack that option and he's trying to patch it up until these two return to action. It's not the first time he tried Bruno in a deeper role. He needs someone able to "see" these passes. Games like yesterday should open people's eyes as to why he rarely takes any of Casemiro/Eriksen off when he has them available. ETH's a "system" manager. That area deep in the midfield is intrinsic to his tactics. We will occasionally hoof the ball, but not use it as a primary tactic like in the Mourinho days. We won't pretend that there's no need for a midfield like in the Solskjaer days, either. The Antony, Martinez and Varane subs were his way of showing his displeasure. The former two, who have worked with him before, understood that and they were quite angry on the bench.

 

[Stadjer]

I think people need to remember that this team is still weak.

We bought Eriksen and Casemiro for our midfield for a reason: it was incredibly low quality. We haven't had Eriksen available for months, and Casemiro has decided to give himself a holiday every so often. Do people think our performances are going to really be better than last season with both of them not playing? We have lost any control in games, which we were starting to gain.

Rashford is our only reliable goal scorer. It was predictable that if he stopped scoring, we were going to have major issues. He has been carrying our front line all season. Martial has injured himself every time he touches a blade of grass, Sancho disappeared and has continued his disappointing form. Garnacho looked promising but is young and injured.

We are going to concede more goals when we cede so much possession, and only one threat in our front line.

To be fair, that was decided for him by the referee.

But i agree, take out the new players that improved the low quality midfield and we are back to the low quality midfield of the disaster season that was last season. It will take some more time for ETH to fix up the mess he inhereited, he managed to fix up and polish some pieces that looked broken before (Rashford, AWB, Shaw and early season Dalot) but he is still stuck with McT (just not good enough), Martial (seems literally broken by Ole his management) and Sancho (clearly a talented player but for some reason not able to showcase it for Manchester United.)

If ETH gets the quality he wants, like Frenkie, and doesnt have to settle for bottom of the barrel choice Weghorst than i see him fix up Manchester United in time. It will take time, just how it took Arteta time to turn Arsenal in the current Arsenal.

 

[Bastian]

I like.

 

[Yakuza_devils]

You know you are in serious trouble when Weghorst play as your main striker every damn game. You also have McT and Sabizter running your MF. It's the perfect recipe for disaster.

Even Pep can't coach a team to play attacking football when you have Weghorst, McT, Sabizter, Dalot in the team.

It will be a big difference when Eriksen, Casemeiro and Martial back to the team. Their one touch and link up play are much better.

 

[Baxquux]

Not worried about the weakness beneath the 1st choice midfield, per se, since this is something which many of us on here have drawn attention to and the club is obviously looking to bring in another top-level CM as priority (even with the Glazers, god help us, I think this will happen, even if we have to compromise on the CF, but all being well they're gone by June), even if it means Top 4 is touch and go. Winning the EL, with Casemiro and hopefully Eriksen able to play all those potential games, might be the 'easier' route. The bigger concern IMO is whether ETH is going to be ruthless enough, or be allowed to be ruthless enough, with moving the likes of McT on so that when another injury/suspension crisis hits, he isn't asked to step in.

I know this follows a long -running 'joke' extending back to Fletcher and before about certain players being protected (Fletcher of course ended up a genuinely good key squad player), but I do genuinely suspect that in the same way that Ronaldo wasn't allowed to be sold, despite his own attempts to secure a move, until he went nuclear mode as well as desperately underperforming, that there's pressure to keep McT around unless he actively lobbies for a move -and even then it's touch and go. We know, for instance., that SAF invariably had a sentimental side when it came, in particular, to players/staff who didn't directly affect his Own chances of winning, so whilst he might well have sold MCT to some yoyo club years ago if he was managing him, from the whispers and rumours its quite feasible that he's advising Scott be kept around 'as a good character, a good option' in present circumstances.

 

[Hoof the ball]

Didn't look like professional players out there, did it?

Looked more like Brazzers actors roleplaying being footballers. Only we were the ones getting f*****d.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Terrified at the thought of him spunking another £80m on a forward who can't score or assist.

Who has improved our team.

Excited to see signings we will make that as good as Casemeiro, Martinez, Eriksen and Malacia?

 

[The_Order]

Who has improved our team.

Excited to see signings we will make that as good as Casemeiro, Martinez, Eriksen and Malacia?

No, those guys don't count - they don't fit his narrative.

 

[Rightnr]

He also clearly wanted Osimhen in the summer but we couldn't pay. People saying he wasted money should look af Murtough who could have secured us Antony for 30m less and got us Gakpo for the bench (who is still miles better than Weghorst).

 

[glasgow 21]

Yes, every manager has to deal with injuries and fatigue, I can understand that. However; we cannot keep using fatigue as a reasoning when we have just had a 2 week break, yes some players played in the international break but alot had a 1 week off minimum.

Lack of reinforcements for a manager than spent 230m in the summer, is not an excuse. It seems we are the only played loads of games and we can be bad for 6 weeks and use it as an excuse.

You missing the point, the players Ten Hag has at his disposal when Casemiro and Erickson are out are poor. You seem have forgotten the last 2 years. Sancho ? on 325k a week he isn't worth 25k. Potentially we are stuck with him for another 3 years not trying to deliver anything. We have a lot of road to travel before Ten Hag gets his team. He can not and will not be held reponsible for previous signings. Our only hope right now is a Qatari buy out to rid the club of the apathy and players with a poor level of performance moved on. Ten Hag is by far, no where near the problem that will happen if Glaziers choose to stay. Striker needed possibly 2 , centre back ,right back , 2 midfielders and a goal keeper. There are players here that simply are not good enough, bar the odd time the wind is blowing in the right direction.

 

[Okey]

Bad patch, people. It happens to the very best. We're still that same poor squad, that goes tits up with just one key player out. And we've played a ton of games. It was always going to catch up with us. Hopefully we shake it off over the next 3 games. ETH is in some way a victim of his own success this season. We're still on track target-wise. Maybe even ahead of schedule.

 

[Woziak]

Agree with most of your post but ETH played no part in that last bit. We weren't allowed to buy, he wanted Gakpo and they said he could only get a loan in. The reasons why he wanted Wout I could get behind at the time.

I agree with what he was given but he still keeps picking Weghors

Agree with most of your post but ETH played no part in that last bit. We weren't allowed to buy, he wanted Gakpo and they said he could only get a loan in. The reasons why he wanted Wout I could get behind at the time.

ETH has no blame for what he was given in January but right now he has to blame himself for continuing to pick a number 9 who has 1 assist and no goals in 9 PL games, if we do get taken Over , The Qataris will tell ETH that players like Weghorst cannot play for Man united whether he wants to or not?

 

[r0663664]

ETH shouldn't be fixated with the players he bought. Does Antony deserve a start whenever he is fit? What is Antony likes going against Shaw or Malacia in the practise games and training? Is he running them in circles? Look at the front 3, I don't see alot of link up plays. Rashford scores many goals due to his outright ability. How many assists from Rashy, Antony and WW between then? There must be cohesion between attackers to win so far, there isn't alot.

 

[santeria13]

We were good in Barcelona as well but other than that not really.

Yeah, we've been shit in pretty much every match, save for the two Barca games, since January. I don't think it's any coincidence that it coincides with our signing of Weghorst.

I've been a huge fan of Ten Hag till now but I fear he's got it massively wrong with his persistence on WW. It's one of those decisions you just can't defend and one that if he ends up not successful here, people will look back on and say that was one of the key decisions that turned people against him.

Did we need a striker? Yes. Unfortunately, he's miles below the required level and it's clear for everyone to see.

 

[NLunited]

I don’t know how you struggle tbh, it doesn’t really take that much imagination.

He could have started Martial instead of Weghorst who we know offers nothing. He could and should have started Fred in midfield. And if he had learned anything from previous thumpings away from home, and especially given the absence of Casemiro, is that he should have stacked the midfield more.

Play 4-3-3 with Fred, Sab & McTominay. Drop Weghorst and either start Martial or play Fernandes as false 9.

The idea that he set up in the best possible way and that it’s only the players who failed him is not just dumb, but it’s harmfully dumb. The manager needs to learn and adapt and he’s clearly not doing that at the moment. And he’s not going to do that if fans and pundits keep shifting the whole blame onto the players when this inevitably happens again.

He plays the same system regardless of the opposition and the players he has available. Plays 4-2-3-1 whether he’s playing Fulham at home or City away. Then gets shocked when he doesn’t control the midfield and he loses every single game against the top 10 away.

What is more possible, that our players magically lack motivation but only on the away games against the top table teams? Or that his tactical inflexibility is costing us?

Fred in there instead of Bruno is mental, Bruno is somewhat press resistant, Fred isn‘t. We had plenty of defensive work rate in midfield with McT, Bruno, Sabitzer and Weghorst.

I think he lined us up correctly. Martial needs time to get up to speed and Weghorst offers more defensively.

We lost the ball too much and were second to almost every challenge. Damn right it was the player‘s performance that sank us.

 

[Gandalf Greyhame]

For all the praise he's received, all that separates EtH from Eddie Howe, purely results wise, is a performance in a league cup final.

Context tells us EtH has achieved more, but we should also be careful before thinking he's the one. There's a lot of work to be done yet.

 

[ForeverRed1]

We’ve definitely progressed results wise, but not sure if the style of play is that much better than some of the football we played under Ole. Ten Hag deserves criticism for the last few matches, it’s not enough to just be better than Ole or Ralf.

it’s his first season. He has exceeded expectations for a first season, aslong as we get top 4. He is the second manager in the PL era to win a trophy in his first season. He needs a couple more transfer windows and time to truely see his style of play. He’s doing great so far.

 

[NLunited]

For all the praise he's received, all that separates EtH from Eddie Howe, purely results wise, is a performance in a league cup final.

Context tells us EtH has achieved more, but we should also be careful before thinking he's the one. There's a lot of work to be done yet.

Aaaamen!

 

[Teja]

Just focus on the data and don't worry about flash judgements.

4th in open play xG, slightly behind Liverpool
20th in set play xG.
6th in xGA.
13th in set play xGA.

Moderate pitch control - not a single average stat but generally a level below City, Pool, Arsenal and .. Brighton. Above the rest. (~5th spot)

4th in high turnovers but 9th in goals from high turnovers.
11th in PPDA.

It tells the story of a top four side where things are generally coming together - definitely not the type of data you see from title contenders. I'm still pretty optimistic assuming we get 3rd. Clear limitations due to the squad - Casemiro's absence, no CF, Ronaldo drama, first season etc.

 

[pogbasformerbarber]

For all the praise he's received, all that separates EtH from Eddie Howe, purely results wise, is a performance in a league cup final.

Context tells us EtH has achieved more, but we should also be careful before thinking he's the one. There's a lot of work to be done yet.

This is such a "football manager" cherry picking way of looking at things...it's beyond maddening. First off, this is only true for the EPL and the Carabao cup (where we still beat them...ummm...handily).

Newcastle was bounced from the FA cup by...Sheffield Wednesday. Oh...and they aren't in any European league. Thats sort of a big difference when you consider the rigors of managing a squad. Last I checked we were still in both tourneys and had probably two of the best games of the season against a very motivated Barca. Newcastle's signature win this year is probably beating us at home.

On a side, having to handle the Ronaldo situation to start the season was incredibly difficult, and handled with amazing care by ETH. These are massive club issues that Howe rarely needs to address frankly.

This dumb comparison also completely disregards expectations vs. reality. Dealing with a larger club includes greater pressure, more scrutiny, and clubs almost always being up for playing against you...a classic example was Newcastle acting (which they will probably look back at and cringe) like they just won the CL after beating us 2-0 at home without some of our best players this year.

So no...just no...thats not "all that separates" ETH and Howe, with a vague "context" conditioner. ETH has a lot of work to do, no doubt, but hes greatly surpassed expectations and gave us all a much better season than most of us could have hoped for. I highly doubt Howe...or really anyone...could have reached such heights so quickly. Does that make him "the one"...no. But it makes him the best manager we have had in a season since SAF. A poor run of games when we have overachieved all year was likely, but it hardly dings the amazing work of ETH IMHO.

 

[MackRobinson]

This is such a "football manager" cherry picking way of looking at things...it's beyond maddening. First off, this is only true for the EPL and the Carabao cup (which we still beat them...ummm...handily).

Newcastle was bounced from the FA cup by...Sheffield Wednesday. Oh...and they aren't in any European league. Thats sort of a big difference when you consider the rigors of managing a squad. Last I checked we were still in both tourneys and had probably two of the best games of the season against a very motivated Barca. Newcastle's signature win this year is probably beating us at home.

On a side, having to handle the Ronaldo situation to start the season was incredibly difficult, and handled with amazing care by ETH. These are massive club issues that Howe rarely needs to address frankly.

This dumb comparison also completely disregards expectations vs. reality. Dealing with a larger club includes greater pressure, more scrutiny, and clubs almost always being up for playing against you...a classic example was Newcastle acting (which they will probably look back at and cringe) like they just won the CL after beating us 2-0 at home without some of our best players this year.

So no...just no...thats not "all that separates" ETH and Howe, with a vague "context" conditioner. ETH has a lot of work to do, no doubt, but hes greatly surpassed expectations and gave us all a much better season than most of us could have hoped for. I highly doubt Howe...or really anyone...could have reached such heights so quickly. Does that make him "the one"...no. But it makes him the best manager we have had in a season since SAF. A poor run of games when we have overachieved all year was likely, but it hardly dings the amazing work of ETH IMHO.

Not dumb at all. Newcastle has massively surpassed expectations. Both are doing fairly good jobs but still have a lot of work to do. I think that's the point the OP was trying to make.

 

[glasgow 21]

He should probably go, Enrique is out of work.

I take this in jest but if it isn't I take it you didnt watch the world cup then ? Taki taka overload with no result whatsoever.