Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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crossy1686 said:
The midfield is shit, we know that but it's his job to find something that works and he's not. It can't be down to Casemiro all the time to bail us out of the shit. He got Sabitzer in January, he sent Sancho away for months to get better, they're both shite. He needs to get a tune out of these players.

I see our future every time we play, we've been gash and continue to be gash. We're on the wrong end of batterings most weeks at the moment. We'll scrape through Sevilla, get another 2 games against Sporting, they'll smash us, Brighton will dump us out of the FA cup and we'll be sitting 5th or 6th by that point.

Then the narrative really changes.
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Talk about a drama queen. Our record since the World Cup finished is one of the best in Europe. ETH will get us through this 'bad' patch
 
We were complete garbage last season and we’ve got a club sale currently hanging over our heads. To be where we are right now, with a cup in hand, is a very good outcome all things considered. However, people certainly got a bit ahead of themselves in declaring ETH as some magician who can turn water into wine. We still have many of the problems that have plagued us for a few years now, and our form has been very dependent on the form of one or two key players.
 
romufc said:
I get that we could have rotated but that was middle of January, we are now in March.

Majority of the team in Sancho, Rashford, Martial, Shaw, Varane, DDG had at least a week of and most had 2 weeks off. Yet, we looked like we played 2 days ago.

Fatigue is an issue for 1/2 games but not every game since middle of Jan where we have played this kind of football. When was the last time we played well? Have we even played well in an away game since Chelsea away?
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We were good in Barcelona as well but other than that not really.
 
TMDaines said:
If this is legit and a goalkeeper isn’t one of our top three priorities, then the manager is writing his own P45 and you can legitimately ponder what a post-ETH United looks like. De Gea is an absolute millstone around the neck of this team. He will cost the manager his job.

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De Gea stopped the defeat from being 5 nil
 
crossy1686 said:
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Very damning tbh. Particularly the tactical approach and manner of defeats. He’s trying plan A regardless of personnel and not only is it not working but we’re getting thumped. And he still hasn’t formulated a plan B or a decided to at least shut up shop and grind some draws. Failing the same way again and again.
 
Licha-Vidic said:
But where is Mourinho? He was sacked not because of trophies but because the performance of the team did not improve to a higher level.

Already ten Hag has spent 230m.

Add another 120m this summer, he will be the most backed manager in United history. At 350m

Problem is, the club needs to see improvement on the pitch after spending over 350m is two summer.

A carabao cup only without champions league, again without a title race next season will be disastrous.

First, He needs champions league football next season. Then
This next summer window is a make or break for him, if we play as we have played this season after spending another 120m then sadly he will be sacked.
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Nobody was calling for Mourinho to be sacked in 2017. Despite us being a missed Celta Vigo open goal away from missing out on the Champions League. Granted, it would have been interesting if things had gone that way for him.

For me, I'd give Ten Hag up until the end of next season before judging. Imagine if Arsenal had pulled the trigger in the previous two seasons on Arteta?
 
One of the only times this season that I think Ten Hag is the most at fault for us losing a game.

I don’t really understand what the plan was in midfield for the game. You could see that he was trying to play McTominay high with Weghorst to cause their defence a problem physically (which didn’t work) but I couldn’t see what the plan was for Sabitzer and Bruno.

Sabitzer popped up on the left a few times in the first half which looked like it must have been an instruction but I couldn’t understand the logic. Bruno stayed a bit deeper to accommodate McTominay’s position but doesn’t excel when asked to do that. As a result we seemed to have completely vacated the area where Casemiro would play, leaving the defence vulnerable and we completely lacked control in possession with Bruno playing deeper and giving it away.

To compound things, I thought Ten Hag gifted them the points with his second round of substitutions. I thought we looked instantly better with Martial coming on for Weghorst and conceded the first goal when we were just starting to carry a threat. After taking Varane and Martinez off we couldn’t even muster an attack and lost control completely. It seemed a bit reckless when we could still have snatched an undeserved point in the final minutes.
 
King7Eric said:
Betis aren't exactly elite opposition and yes we did outplay Barca, but that's just 2 games. Other than that Spurs is probably the only other big team we've actually outplayed this season. We did beat Arsenal, City and Pool but they weren't exactly dominant performances. We deservedly won those games but we still relied on quick transitions to win those games, like we did under Ole.

Perception plays a key role in fans views. Even before he joined, many viewed ETH as a modern progressive coach and so will see things with those tinted glasses. Similarly, Ole for instance was viewed as not a great coach so our team could have the same exact performance under both of them, but people will always view the performance under ETH as part of a grander plan while that under Ole as a one off.

Like I said I believe ETH is doing a good job but any talk of us being on the right path for sure is far too premature. League Cups and Europa Leagues are not barometers by which Man Utd can be measured. At the end it will always come back to how close to the top we are in the league table and currently we are miles behind. Let's see next season after ETH is allowed to further mould the team in his vision and then judge him.
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very good post.

re: the bolded bit, I for one do think we're on some sort of right path but I use this phrase rather cautiously.
This 'path' (i.e having a manager who, more often than not despite poor recent form, is able to make us look like a team with clear ideas) depends and will keep depending on many factors, some within our control and others not so much.

While making bad calls lately, he did show enough promise up to now,
and he still needs very good players to execute his football to a tee. In that respect he's no different than the best of coaches out there.
We don't have many excellent players, and squad depth is an issue. Fixture congestion is also an issue.

He needs to have a very good summer transfer window. If we manage to shift most of the deadwood and recruit wisely (both first teamers and useful squad options), he should be able to compete more seriously next season for the big trophies.
If he won't he'll have questions to answer, more than he does now.

My confidence is still there. My enthusiasm less so. We'll see.
 
I remember Arteta losing 9 out of 10 league games. United got Weighorst playing upfront. Not sure why people expect them to win every week. Football is about players no matter how good the manager is.
 
UDontMessWith24 said:
Two ordinary CBs…Why have they conceded the least goals or very close to it I wonder.
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They are very ordinary. One didn't even make the Dutch squad for the World Cup. Its just good coaching and a good setup from the manager. Something we can't do with our CM when we lost our first two. They have also scored the same number of goals as us. Just shows how deluded we are thinking Bruno,Antony,Rushford,Sancho etc will ever be good enough to win the league
 
Smores said:
There's plenty of teams in the league with worse midfields who remain solid, how do you think they manage it? Tactics or luck?

There's always this lazy analysis that we need 11 world class players or we can't cope. Newcastle had a much harder time against Notts Forrest and Bournemouth than they did us yesterday, it's not just player quality sometimes it's the use of the players.

We all know these players weaknesses as should the manager, when we have to rely on them we need to play to their limits. We failed to do so yesterday and just went with our normal gameplan.
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Nah I don’t think there is.

Who are these teams more solid than us with a lesser midfield than McFred and a goalkeeper who can't pass, can't claim a cross?
 
Probably his strangest managerial performance this season.

The first half formation was just odd. We had no real cover for Shaw, which is one of Fred’s normal roles when he plays, and Shaw was then also trying to drop into midfield, presumably to cover the fact we were playing two attacking midfielders in a deep lying position, whilst McT played seemingly as a 10.

The first set of subs seemed to give us a bit more structure, albeit we unfortunately immediately conceded, but the second set were incredibly bizarre. Unless both CBS were injured, we took off two defenders for one very poor one and lost any ability to control the game going forwards.

In general, I don’t feel Eric has set us up well away from home in the league. We somehow seem to set up in a way whereby we have no control of most matches nor any way to hurt them on the break. Newcastle sliced through us at will yesterday and I don’t really think they they are particularly strong.
 
Real Name said:
So you count a 3-1 win and a 2-0 defeat as 'hammerings'.

Got it.
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Clearly, you didnt watch the game. A hammering does not need to be 4-0 plus.

Newcastle dominated the game for 93 minutes, that is a hammering. They created chance after chance after chance, whilst we had 1 shot on target from Antony.

When the opponent has 5/6 clear cut chances and you create 0, it is a hammering.
 
Did Ten Hag really pick McTomminay for that role purely on the back of him scoring a few goals for Scotland last week, irrespective of just how abject he has always been when wearing a red shirt? Is he really that naive? Seriously, I could not work out a single thing that he was trying to achieve yesterday, and I’m still waiting for someone to even try and explain to me why at 1-0 down and with about 10 minutes to go he thought bringing Lindelof on whilst taking off both Varane and Martinez was going to do anything other than gift them another goal to make the game safe? Even on his crackpot days I don’t think even Ole came up with such a ridiculous ‘plan’. I sincerely hope this is not a sign that Ten Hag is on the cusp of losing the plot after generally getting things right since he arrived, but I must admit that I am now becoming very concerned at the decisions he is making.

Surely the penny must be dropping now for those of us who thought we were nailed on for top four. We were abject against Liverpool, Southampton and Fulham in the cup so this slide must be arrested. These next two home games are absolutely must wins or we can kiss top four goodbye, especially with away games to come at Brighton, Spurs and even West Ham, who always wants to beat us. In fact, we’ll probably struggle at Forest and Bournemouth as well.
 
MancunianAngels said:
Nobody was calling for Mourinho to be sacked in 2017. Despite us being a missed Celta Vigo open goal away from missing out on the Champions League. Granted, it would have been interesting if things had gone that way for him.

For me, I'd give Ten Hag up until the end of next season before judging. Imagine if Arsenal had pulled the trigger in the previous two seasons on Arteta?
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I don't think anybody has called for Ten Hag to be sacked.

People are calling out the performance and trajectory of the teams play.

Even under Ole, Van Gal & Mourinho united would win against City at Etihad very well, win against Liverpool, beat PSG etc.

What people are sounding is alarm bells that, we've have been here before where team looks like it has turned a corner but in more ways than one the club finds itself in the same position, few cups wins but not being in any title race. Its over 10 years now.

The symptoms are the same. Some good results here and there but ultimately no league or champions league trophy.

Again I will repeat Arteta is not the benchmark but Pep is.

Whoever finishes above Pep wins the league.
I can guarantee you Arteta won't finish about pep twice. Klopp tried and failed massively.


Odd seasons will crop up, but Pep is Fergie. Finish above him you win the league in 9 times out of 10.

So is Ten Hag capable of competing with Pep year in year out with what he has shown? Absolutely not..

To compete with Pep you need to win 28 games. Outright.
Draw around 6, lose 4 in a season.

That means beating 14 teams home and away. Outright.
The remaining 10 games, you draw 6 of them.

You need to lose only 4 games home and away all through

That's how hard it is.

So for you to achieve such a level of consistency you need to be in control of over 34 games give or take.

So that, the bad luck games, wins turns into draws, and the good luck draws turns into wins, it evens out for you.

But bottom line is you need to be in control of 34 games.

Like yesterday, at no time did United look like turning the 0-0 game to a win, or turning the 1-0 to a 1-1. That's Because we were never in control of the game.

So Ten Hag has to find a solution to United controlling over 30 games year in year out.. for him to be successful in England.

So easy to say but that's the naked truth and the hardest to do.
 
Marwood said:
The how and why's don't matter in this context. The point is how much stock do you put in a manager winning one trohpy. A second tier trophy at that.

Does your opinion of Ole's ability change if we win that one final. If Bruno smashes one in from 30 yards and we win is Ole suddenly better.

Equally if we lose to Newcastle in the final. Perfectly possible. They just battered us today. Does your opinion of ETH's ability change?

Your thoughts on each manager shouldn't change in either circumstance. A cup run or a one off game here and there is borderline irrelevant when assessing a manager.

Ole didn't get sacked because he didn't win a cup. He got sacked because he tanked in the league.
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I don't give a shite about Oles managerial process or lack of.

If you can't see the progress in style of play under Erik alongside winning a trophy and currently being in top 4, after last seasons debacle, then I don't know what to say to you.

Fatigue kicking in at this stage in the system was inevitable because our squad is full of below par players, so we cant rotate. We have a starting 11 that he has ticking over the rest are poor.
 
TMDaines said:
If this is legit and a goalkeeper isn’t one of our top three priorities, then the manager is writing his own P45 and you can legitimately ponder what a post-ETH United looks like. De Gea is an absolute millstone around the neck of this team. He will cost the manager his job.

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We need to add another DM to that list also because we are a fecking joke without Casemiro.
 
MadMike said:
Very damning tbh. Particularly the tactical approach and manner of defeats. He’s trying plan A regardless of personnel and not only is it not working but we’re getting thumped. And he still hasn’t formulated a plan B or a decided to at least shut up shop and grind some draws. Failing the same way again and again.
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I'm a huge fan of EtH but the fact he hasn't figured out that against the best teams in this league, especially away from home you need to switch up the formation to give more solidarity and control, is pretty damning. I get that he wants to establish a system and stick to it but there's a reason SAF would dust off Fletcher, O'Shea, JSP etc for the big away games at Anfield etc.

For teams that are going to chase and press hard he should be putting 3 in the midfield, especially without Casemiro, even if it means dropping Bruno or moving him wider. This Weghorst false striker nonsense just doesn't work. Sancho-Rashford-Antony with McFred and Sabitzer behind them would make more sense than Bruno and Weghorst through the middle - they can't keep the ball for 5 seconds between them.
 
thegregster said:
The miracle of this season sees us a massive 3 points ahead of last years total after 28 games.
People are going way over the top on the job he has done.
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yet, we are in multiple competitions this season with chances to win all of them.. and already won one trophy.

1.92points per game vs 1.58 last year.

It's his first season. No one is over the top. He has shown so far that he is a very capable manager, even though there have been mistakes/questionable decisions. There will be ups and downs, especially early on, but he has done very, very well and probably exceeded most people's expectations since his arrival.
 
Fluctuation0161 said:
I don't give a shite about Oles managerial process or lack of.

If you can't see the progress in style of play under Erik alongside winning a trophy and currently being in top 4, after last seasons debacle, then I don't know what to say to you.

Fatigue kicking in at this stage in the system was inevitable because our squad is full of below par players, so we cant rotate. We have a starting 11 that he has ticking over the rest are poor.
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It’s not as simple as that, I love ETH however I have a friend who is an Ajax fan and said his only weakness is, he’s stubborn and does not rotate his squad or will continue to pick players that don’t really add end result. His biggest mistake this year bringing in Weghorst when we could even have got Danny Wellbeck or anyone back who has PL experience. I’ll explain ;

Before Weghorst joined PL;
P18 W12 D2 L4 GS 29 GC21 PTS 38
Av points per game 2.11
Av Goals per game 1.62
Av goals conceded 1.16

After Weghorst joined in PL
P9 W3 D3 L3 GS 12 GC16 PTS 12
Av Points per game 1.33
Av Goals Per Game 1.33
Av Goals conceded 1.77

My point is without Weghorst he found a way and we had a dynamic fast front there that pushed the opposite team back and carried a goal threat allowing our midfield and defence to play higher up the pitch when you play a CF who has 0 goals and 1 PL assist in over 600 minutes of PL football you invite the opposition to push up knowing that Weghorst can’t score or hurt you, he’s to busy in midfield trying to help the team and achieves very little, he’s not a defensive CF because Since he’s joined we concede more PL goals per game, his team mates do not want to pass to him because they know he can’t score, he’s 6’6 and never wins a header. Hopefully we find Martial can string a few games together, if not play Rashford or even Ellanga down the middle we need pace in the front three, he’ll I’d even play Joe Hugil before Weghorst who will soon become known as ‘WorstHorse’

If we don’t change then as I predicted 2 games ago United are in a real top 4 race and could lose out, extrapolate that current form over last 12 PL games with Newcastle included you get P12 W4 D4 L4
And 66 points and another Zero goal difference. Don’t think with 11 games to go it’s impossible that this united team without a goal scoring CF to rely on could draw 4 and lose 3 of their remaining 11 games when we have Brentford, Brighton, Spurs, Fulham, Chelsea still to play and 6 other teams fighting to stay in the PL.

let’s ask the question would you take Solanki, DCL, Danny Wellbeck, Mitrovic, E Ferguson, D Costa, Danny ings, I Toney, H Kane, Richarlson all over Weghorst, the Answer is a resounding yes.

Had the Glaziers and ETH did due diligence in January knowing Martial
Can’t stay fit and Ronaldo was off we could have done much smarter business and the inept draws against Palace, Leeds and Southampton both of which were at home would have probably added another 6 points making the run in relatively straight forward!
 
He's overseen some dire performances lately but I'm less interested in slagging him off now and more interested to see what he does in the off-season. Certain performances like yesterday can be explained by fatigue so we will need to build the squad in a way that allows us to rotate when our players aren't on top form. We've been far too reliant on Rashford and Casemiro this season, and to a lesser extent Bruno as we have no other options at AM. Sabitzer was a good punt as was Wout, if only because we were completely out of options after the Ronaldo saga.

I'm inclined to think Sancho is the biggest problem squad-wise that EtH has to address. He could be both Rashford's and Bruno's understudy but he continuously fails at both.
 
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C3Pique said:
I'm a huge fan of EtH but the fact he hasn't figured out that against the best teams in this league, especially away from home you need to switch up the formation to give more solidarity and control, is pretty damning. I get that he wants to establish a system and stick to it but there's a reason SAF would dust off Fletcher, O'Shea, JSP etc for the big away games at Anfield etc.

For teams that are going to chase and press hard he should be putting 3 in the midfield, especially without Casemiro, even if it means dropping Bruno or moving him wider. This Weghorst false striker nonsense just doesn't work. Sancho-Rashford-Antony with McFred and Sabitzer behind them would make more sense than Bruno and Weghorst through the middle - they can't keep the ball for 5 seconds between them.
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But isn't this what most of us wanted? United to play their game against the best? Yes there will be failings and unfortunately a few tankings this season. ETH largely has the same squad of players that have downed tools for various other managers. This will take time the best we could have hoped for this season was some progress and better football. In large parts we have got it.

Baffling decisions yesterday aside he has done a decent job with some of these lads that have a weak mentality. Next season with some investment a few more of those lads with weak mentality won't be starting games.

His signings of casa, eriksen and martinez have been great. Weghorst well he was a loan from Burnley as we have little free money. The jury is out on Antony of course. Malacia a squad player which is fine. Sabitzer been ok.

I hope the fans cut him some slack and don't grow impatient. Next season is a big one for him. Has to get recruitment bang on (if we can spend.)
 
Sometimes you have to work with what you've got. There are some mentality issues that has to be sorted out of course. But... In general, i'm very happy with Ten Hags work so far. You can make a pig wear makeup, but it's still a pig. At least until the manager has assembled a complete squad of his own.
 
We could do with someone that can deputize half decent for Case when injured or suspended and also play alongside.

We've relied too much on what I'd call average attacking type midfielders that struggle in general. Eriksen has the skill and brain to adapt his game, Case is just brilliant, without them it's back to the abyss. If we keep Bruno for creativity/assists we need quality behind to retain the ball.
 
redshaw said:
We could do with someone that can deputize half decent for Case when injured or suspended and also play alongside.

We've relied too much on what I'd call average attacking type midfielders that struggle in general. Eriksen has the skill and brain to adapt his game, Case is just brilliant, without them it's back to the abyss. If we keep Bruno for creativity/assists we need quality behind to retain the ball.
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He's unpopular on here but Rice should still be a target in my opinion.
 
I‘m reading a lot of points that I agree with, but people are putting too much weight on the influence of tactics and line-ups.

First and foremost: you have to bring desire, passion and work your arse off on the pitch. This is a basic requirement. Without it, tactics and formation mean little.

Yesterday most of our players looked like limp dicks. You can‘t play Hag ball with limp dicks. It‘s like trying to punch with hot dog fingered hands.

If we can‘t win any duels or get to second balls, we can‘t have any grip on the game. Certainly not against Newcastle.

I‘m struggling to see how we could have lined up better, without Casemiro and Eriksen available.

Let‘s remember to give Hag time to build his team with more time on the training pitch and more signings. There has been precious little training time.
 
Until Casemiro gets back we need to go back to bypassing the midfield and hoofing the ball. Absolute joke that we tried playing out from the back yesterday against Newcastle's aggressive high press and McTominay hiding from the ball again in midfield. And tbf so were Bruno and Sabitzer.
 
Buxton said:
I remember Arteta losing 9 out of 10 league games. United got Weighorst playing upfront. Not sure why people expect them to win every week. Football is about players no matter how good the manager is.
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Some sense. From an Arsenal fan. Speaks volumes really about the state of this thread.
 
Woziak said:
It’s not as simple as that, I love ETH however I have a friend who is an Ajax fan and said his only weakness is, he’s stubborn and does not rotate his squad or will continue to pick players that don’t really add end result. His biggest mistake this year bringing in Weghorst when we could even have got Danny Wellbeck or anyone back who has PL experience. I’ll explain ;

Before Weghorst joined PL;
P18 W12 D2 L4 GS 29 GC21 PTS 38
Av points per game 2.11
Av Goals per game 1.62
Av goals conceded 1.16

After Weghorst joined in PL
P9 W3 D3 L3 GS 12 GC16 PTS 12
Av Points per game 1.33
Av Goals Per Game 1.33
Av Goals conceded 1.77

My point is without Weghorst he found a way and we had a dynamic fast front there that pushed the opposite team back and carried a goal threat allowing our midfield and defence to play higher up the pitch when you play a CF who has 0 goals and 1 PL assist in over 600 minutes of PL football you invite the opposition to push up knowing that Weghorst can’t score or hurt you, he’s to busy in midfield trying to help the team and achieves very little, he’s not a defensive CF because Since he’s joined we concede more PL goals per game, his team mates do not want to pass to him because they know he can’t score, he’s 6’6 and never wins a header. Hopefully we find Martial can string a few games together, if not play Rashford or even Ellanga down the middle we need pace in the front three, he’ll I’d even play Joe Hugil before Weghorst who will soon become known as ‘WorstHorse’

If we don’t change then as I predicted 2 games ago United are in a real top 4 race and could lose out, extrapolate that current form over last 12 PL games with Newcastle included you get P12 W4 D4 L4
And 66 points and another Zero goal difference. Don’t think with 11 games to go it’s impossible that this united team without a goal scoring CF to rely on could draw 4 and lose 3 of their remaining 11 games when we have Brentford, Brighton, Spurs, Fulham, Chelsea still to play and 6 other teams fighting to stay in the PL.

let’s ask the question would you take Solanki, DCL, Danny Wellbeck, Mitrovic, E Ferguson, D Costa, Danny ings, I Toney, H Kane, Richarlson all over Weghorst, the Answer is a resounding yes.

Had the Glaziers and ETH did due diligence in January knowing Martial
Can’t stay fit and Ronaldo was off we could have done much smarter business and the inept draws against Palace, Leeds and Southampton both of which were at home would have probably added another 6 points making the run in relatively straight forward!
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Agree with most of your post but ETH played no part in that last bit. We weren't allowed to buy, he wanted Gakpo and they said he could only get a loan in. The reasons why he wanted Wout I could get behind at the time.
 
It is inexplicable what he was trying to do with the Varane / Martinez and Lindelof switch. Lindelof does not even look good in a 2, to expect him to hold the fort as a sole defender was crazy.
He also got the shape of the midfield all wrong yesterday. In Casemiro’s & Eriksen absence, I would rather go back to McFred with Bruno slightly ahead.
Taking of Antony was also a bit of a strange decision as he was the only one in the front 4 who got into the game.
Players have a lot to answer but EtH had a bit of a mare yesterday.
 
Licha-Vidic said:
I don't think anybody has called for Ten Hag to be sacked.

People are calling out the performance and trajectory of the teams play.

Even under Ole, Van Gal & Mourinho united would win against City at Etihad very well, win against Liverpool, beat PSG etc.

What people are sounding is alarm bells that, we've have been here before where team looks like it has turned a corner but in more ways than one the club finds itself in the same position, few cups wins but not being in any title race. Its over 10 years now.

The symptoms are the same. Some good results here and there but ultimately no league or champions league trophy.

Again I will repeat Arteta is not the benchmark but Pep is.

Whoever finishes above Pep wins the league.
I can guarantee you Arteta won't finish about pep twice. Klopp tried and failed massively.


Odd seasons will crop up, but Pep is Fergie. Finish above him you win the league in 9 times out of 10.

So is Ten Hag capable of competing with Pep year in year out with what he has shown? Absolutely not..

To compete with Pep you need to win 28 games. Outright.
Draw around 6, lose 4 in a season.

That means beating 14 teams home and away. Outright.
The remaining 10 games, you draw 6 of them.

You need to lose only 4 games home and away all through

That's how hard it is.

So for you to achieve such a level of consistency you need to be in control of over 34 games give or take.

So that, the bad luck games, wins turns into draws, and the good luck draws turns into wins, it evens out for you.

But bottom line is you need to be in control of 34 games.

Like yesterday, at no time did United look like turning the 0-0 game to a win, or turning the 1-0 to a 1-1. That's Because we were never in control of the game.

So Ten Hag has to find a solution to United controlling over 30 games year in year out.. for him to be successful in England.

So easy to say but that's the naked truth and the hardest to do.
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Spot on. I think most of us fans avoid confronting just how horrendously difficult it is to challenge for the title as consistency in the EPL equals dominating games week in week out.

We still are a counter attacking team at best as we don’t have the midfield required to dictate the tempo of the game. Our title hopes can’t rest on Casemiro.
 
Pretty much everything our Dutch commentators on here said would happen has happened. Bizarre signings and selections, freak results etc... What they've also told us is that there has been a point in every tenure he's had in the past where everything just clicks into place. We've seen plenty of evidence of that potential.
 
Fluctuation0161 said:
I don't give a shite about Oles managerial process or lack of.

If you can't see the progress in style of play under Erik alongside winning a trophy and currently being in top 4, after last seasons debacle, then I don't know what to say to you.

Fatigue kicking in at this stage in the system was inevitable because our squad is full of below par players, so we cant rotate. We have a starting 11 that he has ticking over the rest are poor.
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We’ve definitely progressed results wise, but not sure if the style of play is that much better than some of the football we played under Ole. Ten Hag deserves criticism for the last few matches, it’s not enough to just be better than Ole or Ralf.
 
Fluctuation0161 said:
I don't give a shite about Oles managerial process or lack of.

If you can't see the progress in style of play under Erik alongside winning a trophy and currently being in top 4, after last seasons debacle, then I don't know what to say to you.

Fatigue kicking in at this stage in the system was inevitable because our squad is full of below par players, so we cant rotate. We have a starting 11 that he has ticking over the rest are poor.
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That's not what's being said. Not by me anyway. You're arguing against point that doesn't exist.

There has been some progress. It's just not the massive turnaround many have got giddy with. It's not even debatable really. As you say, last season was a debacle. We're three points better off with a worse goal difference this season. With that in mind anybody arguing we're considerably better is objectively not being accurate.
 
We have never been as good as people pretended. I was surprised how before the Liverpool game folks were not just confident that we would beat them at Anfield, but actually hammer them.

Still there’s no point in analysing the manager or team in depth after every single game. After the season is over we can do some initial assessment (assuming we make top 4, otherwise it would be a disaster considering two of the usual suspects Chelsea and Liverpool who normally take a top 4 spot are in a mess this season).

ETH has managed most things on and off the pitch well so I am not in any kind of panic mode.
However if he signs WW or Sabitzer permanently then things will not necessarily improve. You don’t sign Sabitzer just because he is better than academy (no transfer fee) player on cheap wages McT.
And you just don’t sign WW, not even as 3rd back up.

His obsession with WW is very weird. There are always managers who play average players week in week out but those usually are big names/legends still with a big reputation or the likes of Fletcher, OShea, Milner, Fred but not someone as bad as WW.

And don’t ask who else should we play.
I would happily give all the time WW has been afforded to any of Garnacho, Pellistri, Sancho or even Elanga.
 
Strange one from the gaffer yesterday. Shocking subs and weird way he had us lined up.
 
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