Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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Fair to say, going by his post match comments on Sky, AWB is absolutely done here, not that there was much doubt before mind.
All he said was we need 2 good right backs. Considering AWB has been injured for a fair chunk - i'm not sure he's completely wrote off.

AWB has shown in periods he can cross, carry then ball. Dalot is the clear first choice but I don't think he's bad enough to warrant selling and buying another.
 
All he said was we need 2 good right backs. Considering AWB has been injured for a fair chunk - i'm not sure he's completely wrote off.

AWB has shown in periods he can cross, carry then ball. Dalot is the clear first choice but I don't think he's bad enough to warrant selling and buying another.

I think the way he has said it he has written him off. With the LB and that he would say we have 2 LB but this was in response to the question, do we need to sign a RB.
 
Martinez is close to being the best CB in the league. Timber is supposed to be the better CB from Ajax. If we could get Timber next summer, ETH would have a very strong CB partnership for many years.

ETH also want a striker (maybe Gakpo) and a midfield in the mould of FDJ. If he could signed more of his players next summer our rebuild will be much faster than expected.
 
I agree. But I do add that getting Casemiro & Eriksen was more important at the time. But adding a proper goal scoring reliable no. 9 who will work effectively with the likes of Rashford & Antony would be ideal. We should be finishing games off much easier.

Without question, but although we can't know what really went on behind the scenes we got lucky with Casemiro. ETH spent all summer hunting for De Jong and then Casemiro popped up out of nowhere and we got him. We could well have been stuck with McFred instead as it turns out De Jong was never interested in leaving Barcelona for United.

In any event, midfielders were a higher priority and ETH took care of that. It's a shame Anthony Martial has become our new Louis Saha but we can address the 9 position in January.
 
It was good to see the real successor to Fergie beat the fake one.
Solid defensive display(Dalot and Martinez especially) and superb goalkeeping by De Gea.
You can see the work Erik has done with Rashford. Headers are not his specialty. He will improve his shooting.
I think he will use Sancho as a striker. He knows the parasites will spend nothing next window.
 
We badly badly need to back him now rather than try and drip feed it over years. Even if its not Winter because of availability. But summer if we can get 3-4 more signings in positions we need and players he wants, (ideally striker tops that, followed by gk, cm and maybe rw?)
Hopefully we can negotiate and sort that out before pre-season.

I know its a dream but could see us challenging next season if that was the case
 
Huge mistake. Ajax fans said he has one major flaw, runs his first XI into the ground. Looks true so far. No way should he have fielded that starting XI last Thursday
Probably not such a big deal with the WC coming up. If we had a normal season schedule, it may be a bit of a worry. The EL games needed to be won so he fielded a strong team.
 
Huge mistake. Ajax fans said he has one major flaw, runs his first XI into the ground. Looks true so far. No way should he have fielded that starting XI last Thursday

Ajax didn't have the squad that we have. I mean because of the Sociedad defeat, he has been forced to go strong in the Europa league games. He has also been rotating the forwards, Sancho, Antony, Elanga, Rashford, Ronaldo. Eriksen didn't start the last Europa game.

Malacia also started along with Lindelof.

There is a balance between rotating and winning, we kind of have to go with our strongest team to win. Until all the players become capable of playing in the system, there are 4/5 players that are crucial.
 
The whole point was, if West Ham managed to score , there isn't a credible option to bring on. I don't need to prove that one legged 40 year old Ronaldo is still a better option than anyone currently to have in the box in that situation
Come on. You still don't see how absurd that logic is?

We're on a 1-0 lead. Now you have two options:
1. Go for the kill, keep attacking and score the second goal.
2. Sit back and look for a counter.

We obviously wanted to go option 1. But in the last 15' we lost the midfield battle and were effectively pushed back and had to defend with our lives. Which is actually option 2. Now in this situation you have three options:
2.1 Try to fix the midfield. I think ETH did try but it obviously didn't work.

2.2 Defend and counter to score the second goal. In order to counter you surely need pace and probably fresh legs if possible. Bring Garnacho in for Bruno or Ronaldo for example.

2.3 Do nothing and let opponent score then try to go back into the game. This is the worst option possible.

Once WH manages to score they'd likely to shut up shop and look for a counter. We effectively switch sides. This is the scenario you're talking about.

Again, based on what you're so sure Ronaldo-with-tired-legs could score in like maybe 5' left of the game while he has failed to do that in the previous 85' with fresh legs? You surely need to prove this because this is the sole reason you'd want to keep him on. So far this season he's been shit out or in the box with probably the lowest goal to number of shots ratio and on target rate in the league. Guy can't even hit a barn door now. He's among the worst, if not the worst striker/finisher in the league atm.

Or worse, because they were winning the midfield battle they might try to push even more to score their second goal. The most likely outcome possible after WH scores is simply a 1-1 draw.
 
Ajax didn't have the squad that we have. I mean because of the Sociedad defeat, he has been forced to go strong in the Europa league games. He has also been rotating the forwards, Sancho, Antony, Elanga, Rashford, Ronaldo. Eriksen didn't start the last Europa game.

Malacia also started along with Lindelof.

There is a balance between rotating and winning, we kind of have to go with our strongest team to win. Until all the players become capable of playing in the system, there are 4/5 players that are crucial.
There might also be an element of wanting to play the first team together as much as possible to ingrain his style more quickly. Rotating a lot doesn't help with that either, cause doing well in training isn't the same as performing in a real match.

Guess Ten Hag's actual view on rotation will become clearer when squad depth is better and Ten Hag's style has been well established!
 
There might also be an element of wanting to play the first team together as much as possible to ingrain his style more quickly. Rotating a lot doesn't help with that either, cause doing well in training isn't the same as performing in a real match.

Guess Ten Hag's actual view on rotation will become clearer when squad depth is better and Ten Hag's style has been well established!

Agreed, we can see that the team is getting better per game, this is because the players are playing in his system, he needs them to understand his system in game.

Regardless, he still has rotated the CB, LB, CM, wingers and striker. The areas where we have not rotated because there is no clear alternative.

Unless you have players that are like for like, for example City, you can rotate but otherwise most clubs that do well have a settled 11. Arsenal for example.,
 
Come on. You still don't see how absurd that logic is?

We're on a 1-0 lead. Now you have two options:
1. Go for the kill, keep attacking and score the second goal.
2. Sit back and look for a counter.

We obviously wanted to go option 1. But in the last 15' we lost the midfield battle and were effectively pushed back and had to defend with our lives. Which is actually option 2. Now in this situation you have three options:
2.1 Try to fix the midfield. I think ETH did try but it obviously didn't work.

2.2 Defend and counter to score the second goal. In order to counter you surely need pace and probably fresh legs if possible. Bring Garnacho in for Bruno or Ronaldo for example.

2.3 Do nothing and let opponent score then try to go back into the game. This is the worst option possible.

Once WH manages to score they'd likely to shut up shop and look for a counter. We effectively switch sides. This is the scenario you're talking about.

Again, based on what you're so sure Ronaldo-with-tired-legs could score in like maybe 5' left of the game while he has failed to do that in the previous 85' with fresh legs? You surely need to prove this because this is the sole reason you'd want to keep him on. So far this season he's been shit out or in the box with probably the lowest goal to number of shots ratio and on target rate in the league. Guy can't even hit a barn door now. He's among the worst, if not the worst striker/finisher in the league atm.

Or worse, because they were winning the midfield battle they might try to push even more to score their second goal. The most likely outcome possible after WH scores is simply a 1-1 draw.
It's not absurd. While I don't disagree with what you told , the other scenario is also equally likely.

You are assuming we would get a counter and Rashford and a 18 year old will kill them with a second goal. I am thinking about a possible scenario if West Ham scores (which is what ETH also thought).

My scenario is as good as yours to happen.
 
It's not absurd. While I don't disagree with what you told , the other scenario is also equally likely.

You are assuming we would get a counter and Rashford and a 18 year old will kill them with a second goal. I am thinking about a possible scenario if West Ham scores (which is what ETH also thought).

My scenario is as good as yours to happen.
I wasn't talking about how much was the probability. I was talking about how daft that was. And you still haven't answered my question yet.

Anyway imo this discussion starts to get really pointless and tbh a waste of time so let's stop here.
 
His subs were iffy because we had no outlet apart from Rashford on the break, so the subs forced us further back.

I'd have gone with Elanga > Sancho to get the ball to stick more upfront and Eriksen > McTominay to get more energy into CM as we were being overrun.
No, he’s constrained by who we have available. He wanted to give some players a rest. If you watched carefully, the introduction of Fred and Scotty really hurt our ball retention as well as defensive positioning. Fred is an attack dog who is positionally unaware. He’ll go charging forward leaving massive gaps. McTominay is not as aggressive but his positioning is just a bit off, just in no man’s land. Neither can pass particularly well and they don’t understand spacing as well as Eriksen and Casemiro.

Once the changes were made, that’s when we really started to get boxed into our defensive half. He kept Bruno on because he’s fantastic with balls in behind. WestHam we’re pushing forward, and Bruno/Eriksen are our best chances for passes unlocking the counter.

Ball retention is a form of defense, and he mentioned that we really had to improve in the area in the post match presser.

I don’t really blame ETH, you can see we are still 2-3 players away from a title challenging squad. Both Scott and Fred are polarizing and incredibly varied their performances. We need one more midfielder that can reliably play in Ten Hag’s style for just this type of situation. We need a striker and maybe another CB.

That said, Ten Hag is going to get things wrong now and again. Even the best managers do.
 
All he said was we need 2 good right backs. Considering AWB has been injured for a fair chunk - i'm not sure he's completely wrote off.

AWB has shown in periods he can cross, carry then ball. Dalot is the clear first choice but I don't think he's bad enough to warrant selling and buying another.

Wan Bissaka is awful in my opinion. One of the most technically limited footballers I've ever seen play for the club as a guaranteed starter, in a position which demands technique and the ability to progress play.

There is no defensive nous, he would always get caught out on the backpost, he would never be able to play one and two touch football, which is very important for a manager like ETH where he would be expected from time to time to tuck into midfield. He also is a poor carrier of the ball. He has no long term future at the club and its not a coincidence that we're heavily linked with Frimpong.
 
Wan Bissaka is awful in my opinion. One of the most technically limited footballers I've ever seen play for the club as a guaranteed starter, in a position which demands technique and the ability to progress play.

There is no defensive nous, he would always get caught out on the backpost, he would never be able to play one and two touch football, which is very important for a manager like ETH where he would be expected from time to time to tuck into midfield. He also is a poor carrier of the ball. He has no long term future at the club and its not a coincidence that we're heavily linked with Frimpong.
Frimpong is apparently a bad defender too. It's just shiny toy syndrome.

AWB had 2 decent seasons with us, and with proper coaching I can see him improving a lot ( if he wants to and listens )

Lets not forget he was pretty much running the right flank all by himself when he did play. Lets see how he does when he is over this injury.
 
Frimpong is apparently a bad defender too. It's just shiny toy syndrome.

AWB had 2 decent seasons with us, and with proper coaching I can see him improving a lot ( if he wants to and listens )

Lets not forget he was pretty much running the right flank all by himself when he did play. Lets see how he does when he is over this injury.

I haven't seen Frimpong, but I'd imagine we want a fullback whose outstanding going forward. Our right flank has been non existent for years, I don't think mentioning that is doing him any favours. In fact I remember quite a few people saying (rightly so) that whoever our winger is on the right cannot thrive with a player who is not capable of linking play.

Coaching cannot make you better at the basics, which is what he simply lacks.

Whoever we do bring in as a right back, we need to be able to feel comfortable with them when they have the ball at their feet. That should be a prerequisite with any Manchester United player.
 
Frimpong is apparently a bad defender too. It's just shiny toy syndrome.

AWB had 2 decent seasons with us, and with proper coaching I can see him improving a lot ( if he wants to and listens )

Lets not forget he was pretty much running the right flank all by himself when he did play. Lets see how he does when he is over this injury.
No matter what, he will never be technically good enough for the team we are trying to be. Ultimately I just don't think he and Maguire will fit the football Ten Hag wants from us even if they do improve.
 
I haven't seen Frimpong, but I'd imagine we want a fullback whose outstanding going forward. Our right flank has been non existent for years, I don't think mentioning that is doing him any favours. In fact I remember quite a few people saying (rightly so) that whoever our winger is on the right cannot thrive with a player who is not capable of linking play.

Coaching cannot make you better at the basics, which is what he simply lacks.

Whoever we do bring in as a right back, we need to be able to feel comfortable with them when they have the ball at their feet. That should be a prerequisite with any Manchester United player.
I think he showed on numberous occasions he’s most than capable of linking up in tight areas and carrying the ball forward. It wasn’t always bad.

Anyway we’re talking purely 2nd fiddle to Dalot here. Not sure we are going to get somebody better than AWB who will be happy to be rotation? let’s see
 
Has there been a better FB in the prem than Dalot since Ten Hag worked his magic? Took a fecking while, but it seems we've finally managed to find the right guy.
 
Has there been a better FB in the prem than Dalot since Ten Hag worked his magic? Took a fecking while, but it seems we've finally managed to find the right guy.

It's pretty incredible.

Just goes to show you don't need to replace every player to improve and be successful.
 
It's pretty incredible.

Just goes to show you don't need to replace every player to improve and be successful.

I agree, I said as much when we signed Ten Hag. The sentiment seemed to be that we had to replace the whole squad. I wouldn't be surprised to see the likes of Marcus etc. go up another level or two under him.
 
I think he showed on numberous occasions he’s most than capable of linking up in tight areas and carrying the ball forward. It wasn’t always bad.

Anyway we’re talking purely 2nd fiddle to Dalot here. Not sure we are going to get somebody better than AWB who will be happy to be rotation? let’s see

It has to be between AWB or Laird. Or a young RB/CB prospect with the money from Maguire?
 
Has there been a better FB in the prem than Dalot since Ten Hag worked his magic? Took a fecking while, but it seems we've finally managed to find the right guy.
Dalot always had the tools to be an elite modern fullback. Now he finally has a manager who can unlock his attacking prowess and train him with specific instructions within a system that allows his to thrive. But what we didn’t know is that he has the mental edge as well. The willingness to run, track back and find good defensive positions. Notice his work in the back post during crosses in recent games and you see real improvement in his game and he’s only 23!
 
No matter what, he will never be technically good enough for the team we are trying to be. Ultimately I just don't think he and Maguire will fit the football Ten Hag wants from us even if they do improve.
Dalot's hyperaggressive overlap/underlap is also a huge ingredient in why defenders can't key in on Antony's weak points. It's not the type of chemistry that can be easily replaced. As for AWB I'm not sure ETH even wants to improve him, first the early reports he preferred Dalot and AWB could leave, then in preseason he mostly played AWB garbage time minutes with the B-team, now he's talking about the need for 2 RBs. The club should take the hint already and get him one. It doesn't look like he's even interested in coaching a player like that.
 
It was good to see the real successor to Fergie beat the fake one.
Solid defensive display(Dalot and Martinez especially) and superb goalkeeping by De Gea.
You can see the work Erik has done with Rashford. Headers are not his specialty. He will improve his shooting.
I think he will use Sancho as a striker. He knows the parasites will spend nothing next window.
You're flattering me. I appreciate the compliment but no one can replicate what Fergie did in England and his whole career. That's the best manager career in England, if the world ever saw one.
 
I agree, I said as much when we signed Ten Hag. The sentiment seemed to be that we had to replace the whole squad. I wouldn't be surprised to see the likes of Marcus etc. go up another level or two under him.

Yep I never understood why Rashford regressed so much last season. His skillset is really valuable (pace + power, off the ball running, good finishing) and a lot of players do well with the tools that he has in his locker.

I think he can improve too, he has reverted to being a cut-in shoot merchant the past few games which was a problem that both Greenwood and Rashford had under Ole. If he gets coached to find that clever pass instead of going in for the shot all the time he'll be incredible.
 
I think he showed on numberous occasions he’s most than capable of linking up in tight areas and carrying the ball forward. It wasn’t always bad.

Anyway we’re talking purely 2nd fiddle to Dalot here. Not sure we are going to get somebody better than AWB who will be happy to be rotation? let’s see
We can and should
A back up shouldn't be just someone happy to sit on the bench but someone who can come in for the first choice he's behind reliably without a huge drop in quality
The gap in quality between AWB and Dalot(for the type of football we're striving to play) is egregiously gigantic because of how terrible AWB is in possession and at crossing. Frimpong may not be as good as defending but his qualities going forward means we won't lose much if we need to rotate Dalot and as Ten Hag has shown with Dalot defending is easier to improve with good coaching than basic ball control and attacking qualities in a fullback
And for the record I think AWB is a terrible defender outside 1v1s and tackling. Aerial duels, positioning and back post defending he's terrible at all of it
 
Would quite happily see Brandon Williams get any spare minutes that Dalot doesn't play. Anything but trying to watch AWB get by on positioning and his "ability" to defend space.
 
I appreciate your thoughts and the way you try to squander the discontent. But I understand today was not perfect and our fans have the right to feel displeased. We will continue to work hard and reduce the moments like today's 2nd half.

This is getting a bit odd mate.
 
Would quite happily see Brandon Williams get any spare minutes that Dalot doesn't play. Anything but trying to watch AWB get by on positioning and his "ability" to defend space.

Martinez would love Brandon's no nonsense approach, he's probably not good enough though.

Licha would butcher AWB to pieces though with his lazy jogging back whenever there's a break against us. I haven't seen such a lazy player since Özil. Sell for whatever we can get. Crap and lazy is not a good combination.
 
Martinez would love Brandon's no nonsense approach, he's probably not good enough though.

Licha would butcher AWB to pieces though with his lazy jogging back whenever there's a break against us. I haven't seen such a lazy player since Özil. Sell for whatever we can get. Crap and lazy is not a good combination.
Brandon I’m not really expecting to be settled until near the end of the season, he’s been out since returning essentially. Could definitely see him being a player with a lot to offer with our current setup albeit as you say, more in the short to medium term while we work on other holes in the squad. He always comes across as someone who’s eager to learn and improve when he’s on the clock.
 
Just looking at the table, if we can somehow get to the WC and only be 6 pts off top spot and in the top 4 - It would be an excellent start for Ten Hag.

I'd take a Chelsea win over Arsenal on Sunday. Hopefully we can somehow win our next 2 league games.
 
Just looking at the table, if we can somehow get to the WC and only be 6 pts off top spot and in the top 4 - It would be an excellent start for Ten Hag.

I'd take a Chelsea win over Arsenal on Sunday. Hopefully we can somehow win our next 2 league games.
I instinctively read this as 'wildcard' as opposed to 'world cup'. Think I've been spending too much time in the Fantasy Football thread.
 
I instinctively read this as 'wildcard' as opposed to 'world cup'. Think I've been spending too much time in the Fantasy Football thread.
*After ETH has deployed his WC, to only be 6pts off top spot in his ML would be an excellent start.
 
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