It also needs to be pointed out that a manager usually can't just tell their players to keep the ball and expect them to be able to do it. You actually need to assemble a squad with players who are capable of it, and thus far Guardiola hasn't actually managed a club that wasn't completely loaded with players like this. If Pep gets drunk and crashes his car into a supermarket and a judge sentences him to manage Everton for a year, the results wouldn't be good.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
- Thread starter sewey89
- Start date
- Status
It also needs to be pointed out that a manager usually can't just tell their players to keep the ball and expect them to be able to do it. You actually need to assemble a squad with players who are capable of it, and thus far Guardiola hasn't actually managed a club that wasn't completely loaded with players like this. If Pep gets drunk and crashes his car into a supermarket and a judge sentences him to manage Everton for a year, the results wouldn't be good.
I thought it a pretty balanced post. If you read the rest of it, I’m essentially agreeing — We need possession vs most teams. My point was very clear: we won’t ever out possess City — no one will. It seems a strange requirement for ETH. Why not just good results, some trophies and good, attractive football?
I mean, you’re blaming me for negativity on the Caf? Sure, okay mate. I suppose when you are negative on the Caf, then it’s okay, but anyone else, we are accused of being polarizing? Bizarre take.
I think Pep is overrated. His dogmatic devotion to his system is at once his greatest strength and his greatest weakness. Also, he has a blank check as far as transfer budget, he’s only managed for top teams. He is a great manager, but so is Klopp, Ancelotti, Tuchel, Conte, Simeone, Zidane and others.
I don't blame you for anything. I just tell you, that your understanding of a "balanced post" will provoke people. Which in the end could lead to the things I mentioned. Not because I hope so, but because it has been like this in the Ole days. And in a world, where you consider your advice as balanced, I consider myself as not negative.
Lets not pollute the thread any longer. Take half a minute to think through what I said and then do whatever you feel is right.
They both would have been given time if we was 3-0 up at half time against omonia like planned. Instead the players bottled it and we were forced to bring eriksen on etc
He's pretending arteta hasn't been shambolic outside of the FA win and until this season.
But seems to be using him a barometer against Hag like arteta has been up and running from the start
Last edited:
I know. I am all for critiquing ETH as I myself feel there are things that must improve but to act like Klopp and pep stamped their authority after 13 games and to bring arteta's example when he has achieved feck all is just absurd.
It’s an obvious thing to say but unless there’s a threat of being relegated, Ten Hag needs time. It really is that simple as far as supporting Utd goes right now.
We’ve been crying out for a modern thinking, no nonsense manager since the great man retired. And now we’ve got one at the helm, so stick with him.
I keep seeing the same old ‘Top 4’ posts. We probably won’t finish fourth this season and I would rather see us develop on the pitch with a consistent style of play instead of sneaking fourth and plastering over the cracks again. Champions League football is overrated. Unless we’re good enough to challenge for the big trophy then I’m not arsed.
And who knows, maybe the Glazers will feck off if we have a few 5th place finishes?
Stick with the boss, back his vision and let’s see where he takes us.
We’ve been crying out for a modern thinking, no nonsense manager since the great man retired. And now we’ve got one at the helm, so stick with him.
I keep seeing the same old ‘Top 4’ posts. We probably won’t finish fourth this season and I would rather see us develop on the pitch with a consistent style of play instead of sneaking fourth and plastering over the cracks again. Champions League football is overrated. Unless we’re good enough to challenge for the big trophy then I’m not arsed.
And who knows, maybe the Glazers will feck off if we have a few 5th place finishes?
Stick with the boss, back his vision and let’s see where he takes us.
Ridiculous post. I'll kill to have Pep Guardiola as our manager.
This is the reason people are getting uptight about the critiquing. You 100% correct here. Arteta fell off a cliff for 2 years. Miracle he even survived that, did they loss 6 at home in a row at one stage?
Klopp and Pep both had issues stamping authority and their mark, until they had the teams they clearly wanted.
But with some comments, Hag expected to be flying straight away no teething issues and all is Rosey, after prob one of the most dejected shambolic seasons we had last season.
I suppose if you read it “You should support City!!!!!” Rather than, “If you want just possession based football, no matter the cost, Ten Hag isn’t it and only 2 teams worldwide are ride-or-die possession, City and Barca”(my intention), then maybe you could feel offended.
One of the most breathtaking matches of the season so far was the City v Newcastle draw where Newcastle absolutely outplayed City and kept hammering City’s weakness by putting balls out to St Maximin for 1v1s and electric counters. Fantastic tactics by Howe, and Pep had absolutely no response even though they were getting rinsed. Watch Peps post match interview, he absolutely knew they were outplayed and he was out coached.
The general fan isn’t educated enough in tactics to understand the brilliance of Zidane, Ancelotti, even SAF. They see the crazy score lines and pretty team goals by Man City and want us to play like that, but that isn’t the only way to play winning football. Give Ten Hag a chance.
Another thing: the economics of football mean that even mid/lower table teams (Palace, Everton, Wolves, Leicester) in the PL can outspend top tier teams in other leagues like Monaco, Lyon, Sevilla, Leipzig, Roma, Inter, etc. The teams in the PL are the strongest top to bottom in the history of the league. Those same mid table sides that were easy to roll 10-15 years ago are now packed with talent. There really are no easy matches in this league.
The way was prepared for Pep years before he got there. Begiristain was director of football years before Pep got there. You cannot compare MU’s squad to what City had when Pep arrived.
We’ve had to start over with a completely different style of play. We have a 37 year old striker and no cover for him. We have one RB.
Yeah I would absolutely take the 78 points, but I am not counting on it.
Pep has consistently lost to inferior sides in the CL. He had the highest spend of any team in world football. Don’t you think he should at least have a couple of CL titles post Barca?
He’s a great coach, but is he any better than Klopp, Zidane, Ancelotti, Conte, etc? If Conte was at City, with the same spend and control, would he at least be as successful? I say yes. Same with the others I mentioned.
True… but I don’t think contes city would be so dominant like peps is. Contes style might suit the CL a bit more because over 2 legs you only need to score a couple of your playing defensive football like he is, guardiola plays a lot more expansive even when winning they couldn’t hold on and conceded right at the end. I do think all them manages you’ve mentioned would at least have a league title though with this city team but because of the difference in style of plays I don’t think any of them except maybe klopp could dominate England with this city team.
Have a look at the squad Arteta inherited, he has had to totally turn the club on it's head as it was going nowhere. Yet he has still managed to win a trophy far more recently than a lot of other clubs.
Martinez replacing Maguire has eradicated the Maguire of last year full of brain farts. But our defense without Varane has looked rubbish with Martinez in the middle of it.
Antony has been okay imo, but for 100m I expect a world beater.
He didn’t cost 100 million.
Every single manager in history has lost to inferior sides. What does that even mean? I'm very sure Ferguson had lost hundreds of games against teams he should have defeated on paper.
Yes, he's better than all these.
No, no other manager in the world currently will be capable of having such dominance on English football as Pep.
CL is way too overrated as a parameter for evaluating managers. League is a better measurement for team's consistency, which is unmatched when it comes to Pep's teams.
I honestly can't believe these discussions are still present. If anything, whenever I see it, it screams jealousy of Pep's success.
Conte's European record has been godawful and it's pretty much the black spot in his career so far.
no there isn't
Ok, lets agree on this - you consider getting rid of remarks that are burned like this one and I'll consider trying not to expect the worst in other posts. We'd be benefitting both.
I agree with you. But one single game is of course only an indicator. I mean, look at Newcastle from the weekend - do you think, we were so good, that we just contained that exceptional side that kept City at bay? Probably not. Lets face it, the league gives a good indicator about a team in general - because there is a number of games against more or less comparable opposition. Over the course of a season, other teams are consistently better in creating chances and preventing chances. Its not a dig, just a description of the status quo because this is what we should be striving for. One off games are great to watch, but should be seen as limited in terms of adapting things from one club to the other as there are too many variables.
I do. And to be perfectly honest, I haven't seen anybody lately who doesn't want to give him a chance. But discussing specific decisions, set ups, approaches isn't taking the chance away. It is just discussing specific things.
You're probably correct on this one, but the point isn't going to help you much in terms of guidance. If we want to reach the top again, in the national league and cups and the international cups, we have to see who is where we want to be and we need plans how to get there. Stating that the money level increased might be correct, but it is true for Arsenal, Spurs and Chelsea as well. They are playing the same matches as we do so the observation doesn't really get you anywhere.
Disagree. The CL has the biggest clubs with the most talented squads in the world. It’s the premier competition, better even than the World Cup. The PL is the best league, but the CL has been the gold standard for decades.
Pep hasn’t won the CL in 11 years, despite managing for Barca, Bayern and Man City. Never won without Messi. He’s literally working for a club owned by a country. In order to subvert FFP requirements, they literally cooked the books, selling advertising and marketing to their own parent company in order to avoid FFP and open the vaults to buy whoever they want with no spend limit.
I don’t like Pep personally. He is a sore loser, constantly complains about refereeing. His tactical fouling deep in the opponent’s territory to stop counter attacking is a scourge in the game, and it makes the product worse. From a coaching perspective, he’s truly brilliant at preparing a team. He is a great coach and his attention to detail is fantastic. That being said, his inability to win the CL post Messi shows he is too rigid in his philosophy. Maybe he’s unlucky, or maybe he’s not as good of a manager when facing sides with equal talent and an equally astute manager. To say that Zidane isn’t his equal after winning 3 straight CLs and two La Ligas in 4 and a half seasons is ridiculous. In 25 meetings vs Pep, Klopp has won 11, Pep 9 with 5 draws. And probably with inferior talent overall.
Pep is a great manager, but to say he is significantly better than Klopp or Zidane, or even Ancelotti, is a stretch.
Martinez and Casemiro rubbish? They are our best players right now and Eriksen.
Agreed.
I still think he's more or less an idealist that has a vision of how he's going to play and he's going to stick with it. I don't think you'll see regular changes of formation to 3 at the back, I don't think we'll be a primarily countering side as the season develops, I still think he's a manager that worries more about what we do than the opposition. I say that because the signs are he's coming full circle to what he initially wanted before it went horrendously wrong in the opening fixtures. It's not always clear because of our inconsistency, but that's what I see in his signings and the trend of our play.
I think all that's happened is he adjusted to the reality of losing the first two games and I reckon he was totally shocked by that shambles because preseason did not hint at it. Losing those two games then going into fixtures against Arsenal and Liverpool is a situation that leaves a new manager potentially losing credibility in his methods before he's even got started if you let it run away with itself. He also didn't have Martinez settled which is absolutely key to his methods.
But if you look at the signings and what they signify, it's clear. You don't sign a tiny CB with great passing unless you think outside the box. You don't play Eriksen in a deep midfield position unless you value handling the ball. Even Antony is not a flying traditional winger, he's someone that handles the ball under pressure and doesn't cough up possession. You can sense he desperately wants Martial fit because he holds up the ball and keeps it.
I think we're going to keep trending towards these more controlled displays. It's not going to always work because at the top end of the pitch we lack killers to finish, some positions lack depth, and frankly not everyone we have are top 2-3 in the league level. But against most sides I think we will see this.
I think all that's happened is he adjusted to the reality of losing the first two games and I reckon he was totally shocked by that shambles because preseason did not hint at it. Losing those two games then going into fixtures against Arsenal and Liverpool is a situation that leaves a new manager potentially losing credibility in his methods before he's even got started if you let it run away with itself. He also didn't have Martinez settled which is absolutely key to his methods.
But if you look at the signings and what they signify, it's clear. You don't sign a tiny CB with great passing unless you think outside the box. You don't play Eriksen in a deep midfield position unless you value handling the ball. Even Antony is not a flying traditional winger, he's someone that handles the ball under pressure and doesn't cough up possession. You can sense he desperately wants Martial fit because he holds up the ball and keeps it.
I think we're going to keep trending towards these more controlled displays. It's not going to always work because at the top end of the pitch we lack killers to finish, some positions lack depth, and frankly not everyone we have are top 2-3 in the league level. But against most sides I think we will see this.
Except they aren't. Martinez has been much better than Casemiro imo and one of our better players as I said, but the numbers stand as 230m+ spent and we got an actual RM but the improvement in defense and midfield imo has been not deserving of the price paid.
He cost way over his worth.
Sensational? A CB who played 90 minutes in each of our 3 defeats this season in which we conceded 11 goals? As I said he has been refreshing influx of aggression and temperament.
It doesn't matter who the manager is when players like Fred and Mctominay are still first 11 players, and are starting in midfield. The midfield/central areas are crucial for any head coach who wants to impose his idea on the opponent and attempt to play a dominant brand of football.
As a coach you can prepare the team better than the opponent and have superior ideas compared to the man in the opposing dug out. But if your players in key areas fail to execute the idea on the ball due a lack of technical security, then it shouldn't be a surprise to see a Newcastle midfield containing Joelinton, Guimaraes and Longstaff more than hold their own.
Eriksen for me is our most creative player and our reliance on him as a ball progressor from the defensive and middle thirds needs to be replicated by one or two other players in midfield. And that can only be replicated by either signing a play-making #8, along with bringing one or two of the younger talents through who have shown the potential to be the play-making #8, and hence exhibit the qualities required on the ball that we're badly missing in midfield.
I'm confident once we add a couple of midfielders who are technically and physically capable we'll see a very dominant team.
As a coach you can prepare the team better than the opponent and have superior ideas compared to the man in the opposing dug out. But if your players in key areas fail to execute the idea on the ball due a lack of technical security, then it shouldn't be a surprise to see a Newcastle midfield containing Joelinton, Guimaraes and Longstaff more than hold their own.
Eriksen for me is our most creative player and our reliance on him as a ball progressor from the defensive and middle thirds needs to be replicated by one or two other players in midfield. And that can only be replicated by either signing a play-making #8, along with bringing one or two of the younger talents through who have shown the potential to be the play-making #8, and hence exhibit the qualities required on the ball that we're badly missing in midfield.
I'm confident once we add a couple of midfielders who are technically and physically capable we'll see a very dominant team.
Latest United website interview:
https://www.manutd.com/en/news/deta...rik-ten-hag-before-man-utd-v-spurs-19-october
https://www.manutd.com/en/news/deta...rik-ten-hag-before-man-utd-v-spurs-19-october
I doubt it and lets not forget how bad Conte's record in the CL is.
My thought process too, but I also include Fernandes in that midfield area that needs to be improved upon.
I agree mate, and Fernandes definitely can be improved upon.
Agreed but thats why it was weird our manager did not ship them out and spent all summer chasing the same Barca dude. He chose to keep them as there was interest in McTom from Newcastle and reported interest overseas so its kinda not an excuse. You live by your choices. Why didn't we offer out Donny for example? or one of Maguire/Lindelof?
We can’t overhaul the whole team in one window, it will take 3 or 4.
He can't ship out everyone in one window and I think Fred will likely go before McTominay. We've already seen changes and I think we're about three players away from having a very competitive team. And one of those players should be a deep roaming play-maker imo, who will make the biggest impact as far as improving team cohesion and connecting defence and attack.
The Frenkie de Jong scenario hopefully shouldn't be repeated because we now have two guys who are in position leading the recruitment department following on from the head scouts who were let go. And that should hopefully create some stability and joined up thinking when it comes to recruitment.
You can sell whoever you want when you want. Its hardly an overhaul. We lost one or two useful first teamer last year (guy who actually contributes or is not semi retired) and thats Pogba and J-Lingz. In Pep 1st season he brought in 7 (I wont include Moreno) and sent out 7 serviceable (including loans out).
In his 2nd season he brought in 6 and ejected 12 (excluding youth players with barely any caps).
You can go as fast as you like
Last edited:
Don't necessarily disagree but Pep spent 200m£ in his second summer window. Do you think ETH will get anywhere close to that? And if adjusting for rising prices in 5 yrs that's more like 250m£.
naaaaaah. Another issue with United is we aren't quick to rectify transfer mistakes. We give dudes 3-4 years despite nothingness on the pitch. They have an advantage of a revolving door
- Status