Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[Xaviboy]

Really baffled by negativity of some of fans here and already questioning ETH as manager.

I can see improvements in our play big time. Actually enjoy watching us play in some games so far. We play some nice football and thr intensity of moving ball is much better.

Not on the manager if the players can't score the chances we are getting in games.

We are lacking a CF big time. Ronaldo had his chance in last 2 games he has played and offers noting upfront for us. Need a mobile CF that has excellent movement.

He is dropping to deep in games and gives us nothing upfront.

Rather CF that can play off the shoulder of the Defenders and cause problems.

We need another creative midfielder Eriksen is big miss.

One improvement is when we keep possesion and the ball is played back to our CB's Martinez, Varane and Lindelof we are moving it quicker to find a forward pass and trying to find the pass between the lines.

Any other year we would see this part of play slow down and we end up hoofing it long.

 

[mav_9me]

Our defensive height this season is on par with Everton and Palace, our pressing is on par with them and they are nearer to the bottom of the table.

I am worried about that. We wont be able to dominate games if our defensive line is that deep, we will be ripped apart like we have seen this season.

We are a lucky team still, I dont think much has changed from last season. We are better on the ball in the first two phases but other than that, there is alot of improvement required before I say Ten Hag is doing an amazing job.

Surprised by that. Cuz for example in Sundays game, 2nd half we were practically camped in their half...

But yeah of course if we are deep we can't control the game as well. The eye test didn't feel we sit so deep but that's why the stats are useful.

 

[AshRK]

The difference is we have spent twice what they have. Even whilst playing diabolically, they are ahead and have won a trophy.

Arteta wont he FA cup in his first season.

You do realise arteta has been at Arsenal for 3 years now. Did you forget the crap football he was producing for 2 and a half year and even this season his football is far from city's football. They were outplayed by Leeds who should have beaten them.

Yes, they won the FA cup which succeeding season results show was more of a fluke. You don't finish 8th,8th and bottle 4th spot and say look at Arsenal and arteta. You are comparing a manager who is new to the job.

 

[romufc]

there is a massive difference between one of the worlds best managers having players bought for him before he got here, which pep got, followed by a ton of money which pep got.

and ten hags situation, ole spent millions on dross, Rangnick largely bought dross. City scouted pep tapped him up and prepared for him, we had an ex player with no experience followed by a coach who got found out / gave up.

how are we the same as last season, every signing he’s made is looking great, the biggest problem we have is our only Good striker is injured and Ronaldo has aged horribly.

We wanted a left back we got one we wanted a centre mid we got one we wanted a right winger we got one. I’d bet heavily we will get top 4 this season

People talk about ton of money Pep got, when all our managers have got top dollar. Ten Hag got over 200m to spend in his first summer.

How are we the same? This time next week lets see how different we are. We finished 6th last season, a car crash of a season. Lets see how well the great signings do.

 

[AshRK]

People talk about ton of money Pep got, when all our managers have got top dollar. Ten Hag got over 200m to spend in his first summer.

How are we the same? This time next week lets see how different we are. We finished 6th last season, a car crash of a season. Lets see how well the great signings do.

Is the season over next week??

 

[Mwooyo]

Is the season over next week??

No, he means he cant wait for next week inorder to start officially campaigning for Ten Hag out. There are always such weird fans who cant wait for the big games to come such that they hope we lose or even if we win, we win unconvincingly...and then they begin the manager out brigade. Crazy to think, but there are Liverpool fans on talksport who wanted klopp sacked a few weeks ago.

Most people who are watching us game in and game out can see progress in the direction ETH wants us to play, however little that progress maybe. Yes we are far from where we want to be, but we have began the process of becoming what we would love to see, week in and week out.

Judge ETH when he has made the team his own. When he has had the chance to replace all players who dont fit his style. Until then, he just patching holes from oles team. Ole was at manutd for 3 years with no style of play and there were still some fans defending him. 3 freaking years.

 

[RuudTom83]

Competing with City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal and Spurs...for a manager in his first campaign in England is no easy task.

 

[Teja]

Surprised by that. Cuz for example in Sundays game, 2nd half we were practically camped in their half...

But yeah of course if we are deep we can't control the game as well. The eye test didn't feel we sit so deep but that's why the stats are useful.

Small sample size. Our tactics after Brentford were to get one goal and then sit back, go long on GKs, hit 'em on the counter. Can't get your defensive line high if you do that.

Let's see end of the year.

 

[Red the Bear]

I may be naive but I'm gonna come out and say thats there's nothing he could do this season to make me turn against him, he has enough credit in the bank and we were at our lowest since Fergie left so he deserves to be trusted and backed.

 

[tomaldinho1]

I like Ten Hag but the claims that he is already our best manager post Fergie and the games we don’t win shouldn’t count, seem a bit much.

I like him more than other managers purely based off the fact that, so far, he’s picked the team based on form. Ronaldo, Shaw, Maguire, Casemiro etc. none have been guaranteed starters and that wasn’t the case beforehand.

For me there are positive signs but we are handicapped by seasons of crap recruitment, I think top 4 is unrealistic without a fit Martial but my expectation is we linger around where we are now and make it a close run thing. Next season is when I think we have to judge him more harshly, this season he’s just trying to undo lots of bad habits and stop the hammerings.

 

[RedSky]

We are largely toothless up front without Martial. Martial makes Rashford tick and without him he's a shadow of the player he an be. Alongside that Martial is very good at keeping the ball under pressure.

But we've clearly made progress at the back, we're always going to have a few dips here and there. But we've conceded 8 goals in 11 games if you remove the Brentford and City shitshows. With 5 clean sheets no less, some progress, small steps!

 

[mav_9me]

Pep inherited a squad with KDB, Sterling, Fernandinho, Aguero, Silva, Kompany, Zabaleta, Clichy and Yaya Toure in it, then spent 180m in his first transfer window.

No shit he was able to implement his preferred style of play quicker. That's a miles better collection of players much better suited to that sort of football.

Getting in John Stones, Gundogan and Sane to add to the spine of the team in Kompany, Fernandinho, KDB and Aguero.

And here we are, where pretty much everyone was in agreement we need a new GK, CB, RB, 2 CMs, striker and a wide attacker. Of which we got 3 players in.

Difficult to compare ETH to Pep, when City had a better squad to begin with, better club admin/recruitment, infinite money, not to mention Pep is better than ETH anyway.

 

[Kostov]

We are largely toothless up front without Martial. Martial makes Rashford tick and without him he's a shadow of the player he an be. Alongside that Martial is very good at keeping the ball under pressure.

But we've clearly made progress at the back, we're always going to have a few dips here and there. But we've conceded 8 goals in 11 games if you remove the Brentford and City shitshows. With 5 clean sheets no less, some progress, small steps!

Erm why would you do that?

I am a bit worried to be honest. he has invested heavily in Martinez, Casemiro and Antony and we have conceded 15 goals, only 6 other clubs are worse and we still struggle to score goals. I think he needs time, but the transfer activity stinks of another disaster class.

 

[romufc]

No, he means he cant wait for next week inorder to start officially campaigning for Ten Hag out. There are always such weird fans who cant wait for the big games to come such that they hope we lose or even if we win, we win unconvincingly...and then they begin the manager out brigade. Crazy to think, but there are Liverpool fans on talksport who wanted klopp sacked a few weeks ago.

Most people who are watching us game in and game out can see progress in the direction ETH wants us to play, however little that progress maybe. Yes we are far from where we want to be, but we have began the process of becoming what we would love to see, week in and week out.

Judge ETH when he has made the team his own. When he has had the chance to replace all players who dont fit his style. Until then, he just patching holes from oles team. Ole was at manutd for 3 years with no style of play and there were still some fans defending him. 3 freaking years.

Ofcourse, putting words into other people. Its actually funny that if we call out results and performances = Ten Hag out.

Then there are fans who take all their information from Talk Sport as if one fan represents all.

The way we played last season, I would be very worried if there was no progress at all.

Just because you didn't like Ole's style of play, does not mean he didn't have one. No manager finishes 2nd and gets finals with no style of play.

His style was counter attacking which worked to an extent, once you get expectations like winning something, counter attacking style is not suitable.

yet there are fans like you who want to wait 3 years before seing real improvement.

 

[mav_9me]

Erm why would you do that?

I am a bit worried to be honest. he has invested heavily in Martinez, Casemiro and Antony and we have conceded 15 goals, only 6 other clubs are worse and we still struggle to score goals. I think he needs time, but the transfer activity stinks of another disaster class.

Because they would be considered outliers, skewing the overall numbers

 

[mav_9me]

Ofcourse, putting words into other people. Its actually funny that if we call out results and performances = Ten Hag out.

Then there are fans who take all their information from Talk Sport as if one fan represents all.

The way we played last season, I would be very worried if there was no progress at all.

Just because you didn't like Ole's style of play, does not mean he didn't have one. No manager finishes 2nd and gets finals with no style of play.

His style was counter attacking which worked to an extent, once you get expectations like winning something, counter attacking style is not suitable.

yet there are fans like you who want to wait 3 years before seing real improvement.

Or there are fans right now who are seeing improvement. Like me.

Like the first goal against Arsenal where we passed the ball for so long before scoring. Similar other situations where we have kept the ball for a while and went on to create a chance. How often have you seen that since SAF retired? And seriously even in SAFs later years.

 

[RedSky]

Erm why would you do that?

I am a bit worried to be honest. he has invested heavily in Martinez, Casemiro and Antony and we have conceded 15 goals, only 6 other clubs are worse and we still struggle to score goals. I think he needs time, but the transfer activity stinks of another disaster class.

Blips are blips. It's never going to be a perfect run of results when a new Manager comes in who wants to change a lot. Ralf Rangnick managed 7 cleans sheets in 29 games. Clearly we're doing better in defense this year if we've already managed 5 in 13. It's not all doom and gloom, there are promising shoots popping up. Just need to stay patient and not freak out when we don't win every game.

 

[romufc]

Or there are fans right now who are seeing improvement. Like me.

Like the first goal against Arsenal where we passed the ball for so long before scoring. Similar other situations where we have kept the ball for a while and went on to create a chance. How often have you seen that since SAF retired? And seriously even in SAFs later years.

Have I said there is no improvement?

Ofcourse with a new manager there will be some improvement.

Yes, you saw improvement against Arsenal on one goal but there is also loads to do as losing to City 6-3 is not improvement. Drawing 0-0 to Newcastle at home is not improvement.

I think under LVG we kept the ball for a long time too.

 

[Sweet Square]

While it’s far too early to say almost anything about Ten Hag time here, I’m starting to think the whole “philosophy” stick has been vastly overstated with him. It seems the guy is currently far more pragmatic, which I think is fine.

 

[Desert Eagle]

Absolutely nothing wrong with questioning ten Hag. We can and should question all our managers.

I think romufc has brought up interesting points worthy of discussion with those stats.

We are near the bottom for both defensive line and pressing. My immediate thought is Ronaldo and de gea .Added to that the couple games we played with Maguire and the games against arsenal and Liverpool where we led and sat back and of course city spanking. So still a low sample size, will be interesting to see that graph at the end of the year.

Erm why would you do that?

I am a bit worried to be honest. he has invested heavily in Martinez, Casemiro and Antony and we have conceded 15 goals, only 6 other clubs are worse and we still struggle to score goals. I think he needs time, but the transfer activity stinks of another disaster class.

That's a overreaction. 5 signings

Malacia - been great value for money already young and learning 7/10

Casemiro- world class starting to play and play well. 6.5/10

Antony- couldn't ask for more 8/10

Eriksen- same 9/10

Martinez- same 9/10

Now I think its actually too early to judge any of the signings. But if we are to base it on the small sample size we have saying it stinks of another disaster class is bonkers. It's probably the best summer we've had in a long time.

 

[mav_9me]

Have I said there is no improvement?

Ofcourse with a new manager there will be some improvement.

Yes, you saw improvement against Arsenal on one goal but there is also loads to do as losing to City 6-3 is not improvement. Drawing 0-0 to Newcastle at home is not improvement.

I think under LVG we kept the ball for a long time too.

The original comment said fans who wait for 3 yrs for improvement, to which I said there are fans like me who already see improvement.

The improvement I see is not just the one goal against Arsenal. Also "Similar other situations where we have kept the ball for a while and went on to create a chance." If you'd like I can post videos of those chances. Just that I am too lazy to scour reddit. But for you I will.

I genuinely am not that bothered abt the results. I always want to look at the performances. For ex you are disappointed with the draw, I am happy with the way we controlled the game particularly in the 2nd half. Neither of us are wrong. Just different way to look at it.

That also shows how LVG was a very good coach (purely in terms of coaching the team in how he wanted them to play). But the big differences are his was sterile possession, teams didn't press as much then and teams were happy to let us keep the ball and counter us.

 

[bosnian_red]

Have I said there is no improvement?

Ofcourse with a new manager there will be some improvement.

Yes, you saw improvement against Arsenal on one goal but there is also loads to do as losing to City 6-3 is not improvement. Drawing 0-0 to Newcastle at home is not improvement.

I think under LVG we kept the ball for a long time too.

You can't just look at results to judge improvement. When you're at the start of the process like we are, you just have to accept there will be frustrating results here and there. It's the performances over time that matter more. Newcastle was a step in the right direction from everything from our box right up til the edge of theirs. The final decisions and touches let us down.

 

[RedSky]

Has any other team in the league played Arsenal, Liverpool and City already? We've got Tottenham and Chelsea next. Just played Newcastle, had Brentford and Brighton at the start. We've had a tricky start to the season along with that bullshit gap that killed our momentum. If we beat Tottenham tomorrow we'll be 4 points behind Tottenham with a game in hand. What a horror show!

 

[SER19]

Has any other team in the league played Arsenal, Liverpool and City already? We've got Tottenham and Chelsea next. Just played Newcastle, had Brentford and Brighton at the start. We've had a tricky start to the season along with that bullshit gap that killed our momentum. If we beat Tottenham tomorrow we'll be 4 points behind Tottenham with a game in hand. What a horror show!

Yes by the time we play Chelsea we'll have played pretty much all of the top 10 in our first 11 games. The opening 2 fixtures have been the only really disappointing results

 

[mav_9me]

@romufc

 

[AshRK]

@romufc

The build up play leading to Sancho's penalty shout was also sublime. If @GifLord can do his magic.

 

[mav_9me]

The build up play leading to Sancho's penalty shout was also sublime. If @GifLord can do his magic.

Yes. That was beautiful too. I saw a clip somewhere. I'll see if I can find it.

 

[evil_geko]

Ofcourse, putting words into other people. Its actually funny that if we call out results and performances = Ten Hag out.

Then there are fans who take all their information from Talk Sport as if one fan represents all.

The way we played last season, I would be very worried if there was no progress at all.

Just because you didn't like Ole's style of play, does not mean he didn't have one. No manager finishes 2nd and gets finals with no style of play.

His style was counter attacking which worked to an extent, once you get expectations like winning something, counter attacking style is not suitable.

yet there are fans like you who want to wait 3 years before seing real improvement.

Oh ffs, stop going from one extreme to another, there is big difference between waiting for 3 years and being moaning negative Andy after only 8, 9 games. Literally no one said wait for 3 years for some improvements. But obviously you and some others, can't even get through half a season without going full on sticks and stones on the manager.

Someone before accused people of being all "sunshine and rainbows" only because they choose to be optimistic and appreciate improvements looking forward to what new manager can bring. No, it is not all "sunshine and rainbows", things don't have to black and white. They just choose not be negative Andys, that doesn't make them blind to Ten Hags weaknesses, every manager has them, even Pep and Klopp.

 

[saivet]

Only saw the Newcastle game on MOTD, which to me seemed like we were the better team after they had some chances in the first half.

Overall, I think he's doing okay. The results have been more or less in line with our expectations. Performances haven't been convincing either but enough positives to be on board.

My hope is that in the 2nd half of the season we will see bigger improvements, particularly with our style of play.

 

[romufc]

You can't just look at results to judge improvement. When you're at the start of the process like we are, you just have to accept there will be frustrating results here and there. It's the performances over time that matter more. Newcastle was a step in the right direction from everything from our box right up til the edge of theirs. The final decisions and touches let us down.

Agreed, like I have said in loads of posts, we have improved in the 1st and 2nd phase of play. Its the final third at the moment we are struggling.

However, I would also say the progress is good but its not amazing, we all expected progress and bumps in the road.

Is Ten Hag doing something you didn't expect?

 

[Bestietom]

A top CF could change things instantly. 0 goal difference last season, and -2 this season.

 

[Kostov]

Because they would be considered outliers, skewing the overall numbers

City beat us with a 3 goal difference, nothing new, the Brenford one, was also pretty much deserved. And if you've seen all of our matches we we pretty lucky to get a few of the other results. The overall numbers are what they are.

 

[romufc]

Oh ffs, stop going from one extreme to another, there is big difference between waiting for 3 years and being moaning negative Andy after only 8, 9 games. Literally no one said wait for 3 years for some improvements. But obviously you and some others, can't even get through half a season without going full on sticks and stones on the manager.

Someone before accused people of being all "sunshine and rainbows" only because they choose to be optimistic and appreciate improvements looking forward to what new manager can bring. No, it is not all "sunshine and rainbows", things don't have to black and white. They just choose not be negative Andys, that doesn't make them blind to Ten Hags weaknesses, every manager has them, even Pep and Klopp.

Oh yes, here we are a poster trying to tell me stop going one extreme to another but cannot accept that we are allowed to criticise perfomances?

I have always said I back Ten Hag and expect him to do well, but ofcourse you take it as Black and white, if you are negative = you hate the manager.

Ten Hag has introduced some good things but we still have been battered twice, cant score goals but its fine because we keep the ball and play better than last season?

I'm sorry but we all expected some sort if improvement to last season, stop acting as if its an amazing job. He is doing okay, nothing special.

I will obviously judge him at the end of the season. We can talk about other managers but they have also shown they are capable of going toe to toe with the best in the PL.

 

[Raw]

A top CF could change things instantly. 0 goal difference last season, and -2 this season.

That and an improved defence. Which we should hopefully have now, main reason for the -2 is the Brentford and City defeats. Even when taking those out, we'd still only have a GD of +5. A top CF could definitely get that to at least +10 which is more in line with the top 4 challengers/title contenders like Arsenal, Spurs and Liverpool (not City cos they're ridiculous with +23).

It's a very simplistic view admittedly, but the truth is we just need more goals.

 

[bosnian_red]

Agreed, like I have said in loads of posts, we have improved in the 1st and 2nd phase of play. Its the final third at the moment we are struggling.

However, I would also say the progress is good but its not amazing, we all expected progress and bumps in the road.

Is Ten Hag doing something you didn't expect?

Nope! He was my ideal choice of manager to come in for a long time and was delighted we got him in, and I'm convinced he'll bring us competing at the top again. And I think it's going as expected really. We'd see a lot more progress with Martial in for Ronaldo, but with Martial out injured, Ten Hag is essentially left to pick a left wide forward as a poacher (who is our best left winger anyway) or a 37/38 year old who can't run as a poacher, so it's going to have a huge impact and limit what we do in the final 3rd. Even if we were 3 years in with Ten Hag, if we had to play current Ronaldo up top, we'd see blunt attacking performances. He's just done as a premier league level footballer IMO. Last weekend for example was a very good performance for 90% of the pitch. But it broke down at the final decision, with players either forcing it to Ronaldo, Ronaldo being a non-entity as an attacker, Fred being a bit shite so fecking up passes, etc. It's a performance where you just put an average striker in who can physically hold their own with premier league defenders, and we probably win that by a couple.

 

[Kostov]

Absolutely nothing wrong with questioning ten Hag. We can and should question all our managers.

I think romufc has brought up interesting points worthy of discussion with those stats.

We are near the bottom for both defensive line and pressing. My immediate thought is Ronaldo and de gea .Added to that the couple games we played with Maguire and the games against arsenal and Liverpool where we led and sat back and of course city spanking. So still a low sample size, will be interesting to see that graph at the end of the year.


That's a overreaction. 5 signings

Malacia - been great value for money already young and learning 7/10

Casemiro- world class starting to play and play well. 6.5/10

Antony- couldn't ask for more 8/10

Eriksen- same 9/10

Martinez- same 9/10

Now I think its actually too early to judge any of the signings. But if we are to base it on the small sample size we have saying it stinks of another disaster class is bonkers. It's probably the best summer we've had in a long time.

Malacia has been refreshing but the big money signings are imo underwhelming. Casemiro has been mostly rubbish and Martinez and Antony positive but considering that they've eaten 150m+ of our budget I expected a bigger impact. Antony obviously was much more needed, but the money spent on Martinez I think would have been better invested on a striker.

 

[Sweet Square]

I like him more than other managers purely based off the fact that, so far, he’s picked the team based on form. Ronaldo, Shaw, Maguire, Casemiro etc. none have been guaranteed starters and that wasn’t the case beforehand.

For me there are positive signs but we are handicapped by seasons of crap recruitment, I think top 4 is unrealistic without a fit Martial but my expectation is we linger around where we are now and make it a close run thing. Next season is when I think we have to judge him more harshly, this season he’s just trying to undo lots of bad habits and stop the hammerings.

Yeah would agree with this. The Maguire stuff has been handled really well(Had the potential to be a real shit show)and the transfer window was a mess. My only disappointment although again it's still very early, is the lack of youth players getting playing time.

 

[DJ_21]

Yeah would agree with this. The Maguire stuff has been handled really well(Had the potential to be a real shit show)and the transfer window was a mess. My only disappointment although again it's still very early, is the lack of youth players getting playing time.

I agree… for someone who’s build a reputation around young players he’s not shown it so far. He had a very young and exciting team at Ajax and I want the same here… by all means you need to mix it with a bit of experience… I want the likes of zidane and savage to be given chances.

 

[romufc]

Nope! He was my ideal choice of manager to come in for a long time and was delighted we got him in, and I'm convinced he'll bring us competing at the top again. And I think it's going as expected really. We'd see a lot more progress with Martial in for Ronaldo, but with Martial out injured, Ten Hag is essentially left to pick a left wide forward as a poacher (who is our best left winger anyway) or a 37/38 year old who can't run as a poacher, so it's going to have a huge impact and limit what we do in the final 3rd. Even if we were 3 years in with Ten Hag, if we had to play current Ronaldo up top, we'd see blunt attacking performances. He's just done as a premier league level footballer IMO. Last weekend for example was a very good performance for 90% of the pitch. But it broke down at the final decision, with players either forcing it to Ronaldo, Ronaldo being a non-entity as an attacker, Fred being a bit shite so fecking up passes, etc. It's a performance where you just put an average striker in who can physically hold their own with premier league defenders, and we probably win that by a couple.

That is my point, we are at the development of where we expected him to be at this stage. I am sure we all knew that we will get some bad results but our performances should be good. Out of 9 games, we have had 3/4 bad performances too.

I agree on Ronaldo, he is not suited to this team whatsoever, does not help anyone because we seen Antony and Bruno sometimes force it towards him and he is not helping the team at all.

I agree on martial too, he would have added a different method of attack and all round play, you see it when he plays, he holds up and passes it wide then makes a run.

The biggest worry I have with this team, is the consistency, we keep seeing after a few games, rubbish performances. That needs to stop.

 

[Sweet Square]

I agree… for someone who’s build a reputation around young players he’s not shown it so far. He had a very young and exciting team at Ajax and I want the same here… by all means you need to mix it with a bit of experience… I want the likes of zidane and savage to be given chances.

I might be misremembering but I'm sure there were some Ajax fans on here who said that the youth players in Ten Hag team was more down to club pressure rather than the manager commitment to youth. Hopefully that it isn't the case.