Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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That is my point, we are at the development of where we expected him to be at this stage. I am sure we all knew that we will get some bad results but our performances should be good. Out of 9 games, we have had 3/4 bad performances too.

I agree on Ronaldo, he is not suited to this team whatsoever, does not help anyone because we seen Antony and Bruno sometimes force it towards him and he is not helping the team at all.

I agree on martial too, he would have added a different method of attack and all round play, you see it when he plays, he holds up and passes it wide then makes a run.

The biggest worry I have with this team, is the consistency, we keep seeing after a few games, rubbish performances. That needs to stop.
I think we're building that consistency. First 2 games were almost a mental exercise to get a clean slate after last season, so it's hard to include them into any meaningful progression. And our play since then has been improving IMO. City was bad, but also they're the best team in the world with the best players and one of the best managers ever, so it's kind of like "they're what we hope ten hag can get something close to". Which sucks, but is the reality. Early days still, but since that City games, we've progressed into really dominating games. Fully controlled the Everton game and should've scored more, dominated Omonia as you'd expect just didn't score til late, and then dominated Newcastle and failed to score. Having games where you are just not scoring your chances but you dominated territory and possession is kind of just part of the process but positive none the less. You look at how we're finally sustaining attacks, sustaining pressure, pushing teams back, camping around the opposition box etc, and that's all positive points.

My biggest complaint about him - which might turn into a bigger thing long term but is understandable as of now - is reluctance to rotate, reluctance to play youth. Maybe over time he trusts it more, but on the weekend we had nothing but youth on the bench basically, and we didn't use any of them. Could've taken Fred off for Kobbie Mainoo, or Zidane Iqbal, or throw Garnacho in, etc. Sometimes you just throw them in to see if they can change something, because it's just something different to the team on the pitch.
 
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Malacia has been refreshing but the big money signings are imo underwhelming. Casemiro has been mostly rubbish and Martinez and Antony positive but considering that they've eaten 150m+ of our budget I expected a bigger impact. Antony obviously was much more needed, but the money spent on Martinez I think would have been better invested on a striker.
Can't believe we have people still thinking we didn't need Martinez and Casemiro. I can understand the disappointments of " player names" but that positions were absolutely necessary to be upgraded.
 
My only critique of ten Hag thus far is the lack of opportunities for our young players like Iqbal, Mainoo or Garnacho. We’re lacking quality in midfield when Eriksen is out and Iqbal likely would’ve made a more positive contribution than Fred. Absolutely no way Iqbal misses that chance.
 
Malacia has been refreshing but the big money signings are imo underwhelming. Casemiro has been mostly rubbish and Martinez and Antony positive but considering that they've eaten 150m+ of our budget I expected a bigger impact. Antony obviously was much more needed, but the money spent on Martinez I think would have been better invested on a striker.

Agree to disagree. If you think the first player in united history to score in his first three games of the league is underwhelming and not enough impact then that's on you. Martinez replacing Maguire is probably the biggest positive of our season so far as well.
 
I might be misremembering but I'm sure there were some Ajax fans on here who said that the youth players in Ten Hag team was more down to club pressure rather than the manager commitment to youth. Hopefully that it isn't the case.
Surely that wasn’t the case… obviously though Ajax is a team that are known for bringing up youth just as we are and Ten Hag knew that, I’m sure in his interview with the club they’d of mentioned bringing through youth players, he wouldn’t of took the job if he didn’t like the idea.
 
Malacia has been refreshing but the big money signings are imo underwhelming. Casemiro has been mostly rubbish and Martinez and Antony positive but considering that they've eaten 150m+ of our budget I expected a bigger impact. Antony obviously was much more needed, but the money spent on Martinez I think would have been better invested on a striker.
Martinez has been fantastic, what do you mean? Even at his cost he's looking a bargain. He looks like a brilliant defender and is brilliant on the ball. Antony, fine, I think he has world class potential and has shown the talent, and was the profile of what we needed out there long term, but is young and will take time (which isn't what you want at that price, but it is what it is). Casemiro as well is exactly what we needed, and has been looking better and better and showing his worth. He had a couple of slow appearances in his first games which you'd expect, and now has had about 3 games in a row where he was arguably the best player on the pitch. Defensively excellent and restricting opposition getting into our box as well as helping us dominate play (and setting up Ronaldo's goal, having a few chances himself, setting up Rashford's chance). Have no worries about him.
 
Oh you want to talk about spend do you? Go have a look how much money Manchester United has spend before saying City spent alot. We have spent more than City... get your facts correct.

Liverpool squad is not better, we may not have been good at the end of last season, but dont act as if people at the start didnt say "Ole is holding back this squad" then Ten Hag got over 200m to spend over the summer, we will still be finishing same as last season 6th.

So we're pretending United's transfer strategy in the 5 years preceding ETH's start isn't a complete shower of shite? Before Pep even started his first training session or purchased a single player, City already had the most talented squad in the premier league. Klopp squeaked into 4th in his second season, but again, the fact that they were able to move on players for sizable transfer fees is an indication that their squad was better. Klopp also took over from Brendan Rodgers who already had Liverpool playing something resembling modern football tactics, rather than sitting back and hitting on the counter like United did from ~ 2016 until now. ETH also showed up with what, 8 first team players leaving on a free with no incoming transfers completed.

ETH's situation is different than Klopp and Pep, so the constant results comparison, with any of ETH's success discounted because he had a big net spend (as if Pep didn't, they spent almost 200m in his first window, adjusted for football inflation that's like 300m now). The reason people get push back for criticism of the ETH isn't that people don't want to hear any of it, it's that almost all of the criticism is worthless and completely devoid of insight. There's also not much to talk about anyways, all we can see is that the way the team plays is changing but it's clear we don't really have enough talented players at enough positions to compete with the very top yet. Players have missed about 5 sitters in the last 2 matches, do you think Ten Hag is doing something wrong in their training that's causing them to do that or is the squad still about half players who aren't good enough?
 
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I sense that lots of the discussion here could not separate the impact by ETH from those other factors like the legacy squad , fixtures, injury, etc. , and give a fair comment to ETH 's results.

Undoubtedly, ETH is doing a great job so far. Just think about the gut he has shown to drop Ronaldo, Shaw and Maguire , this already a level above Ole and Rangnick . Also we are now a half-decent team to play possession football and you can tell players now have clear idea during transition where to run and distribute balls to counter the pressing , which we did not see during last two coaches' tenure.

Couple hints here:
1. if you see players after receiving the ball have to look around and then make a decision where to play the next, this is indication that they are not well trained by the coach and reply on quality to find a way to deal with situations. (i.e. Maguire & Shaw & Lindelof & Pogba under Ole).

2. if you see players places a hospital one-touch ball to teammates at space (i.e. McT & Fred), this is player quality issue, not the coach. You can't expect a coach at Man Utd level to do Youth coach work 10 years late to fix such thing at this stage. Same applies to missing clear chances at goal (i.e. Rashford, Fred), or placing way-off long balls from goalkeeper under no pressure.

The list can be on and on. If you can tell which parts the coach handle and judge from the improvement , ETH clearly doing decent work .
 
Malacia has been refreshing but the big money signings are imo underwhelming. Casemiro has been mostly rubbish and Martinez and Antony positive but considering that they've eaten 150m+ of our budget I expected a bigger impact. Antony obviously was much more needed, but the money spent on Martinez I think would have been better invested on a striker.

Well we've to agree to disagree. I think Martinez has been sensational.
 
No, he means he cant wait for next week inorder to start officially campaigning for Ten Hag out. There are always such weird fans who cant wait for the big games to come such that they hope we lose or even if we win, we win unconvincingly...and then they begin the manager out brigade. Crazy to think, but there are Liverpool fans on talksport who wanted klopp sacked a few weeks ago.

Most people who are watching us game in and game out can see progress in the direction ETH wants us to play, however little that progress maybe. Yes we are far from where we want to be, but we have began the process of becoming what we would love to see, week in and week out.

Judge ETH when he has made the team his own. When he has had the chance to replace all players who dont fit his style. Until then, he just patching holes from oles team. Ole was at manutd for 3 years with no style of play and there were still some fans defending him. 3 freaking years.
So lets do that then, lets close the fecking thread then because seemingly, many fans are incapable of reading things, they don't agree with. Lets just not write anything then. Not before the manager had enough time to make the team his own. We obviously didn't learn anything from the days of Ole.

Oh ffs, stop going from one extreme to another, there is big difference between waiting for 3 years and being moaning negative Andy after only 8, 9 games. Literally no one said wait for 3 years for some improvements. But obviously you and some others, can't even get through half a season without going full on sticks and stones on the manager.

Someone before accused people of being all "sunshine and rainbows" only because they choose to be optimistic and appreciate improvements looking forward to what new manager can bring. No, it is not all "sunshine and rainbows", things don't have to black and white. They just choose not be negative Andys, that doesn't make them blind to Ten Hags weaknesses, every manager has them, even Pep and Klopp.
If those people would just stop attacking everybody who doesn't share their view, we would have a much more relaxed discussion I guess. It is starting just like it did with Ole. Some people went OTT in their praise, a few pushed back. When it got rough, the split got deeper and deeper. Top reds against toxic negativity. Have we learned nothing? When you are happy with everything, just let others write whatever they want. It is ridiculous, how sensitive some people seem to be when confronted with things that disturb their harmony.
 
So we're pretending United's transfer strategy in the 5 years preceding ETH's start isn't a complete shower of shite? Before Pep even started his first training session or purchased a single player, City already had the most talented squad in the premier league.

The reason people get push back for criticism of the ETH isn't that people don't want to hear any of it, it's that 90% of the criticism is worthless and completely devoid of insight. There's also not much to talk about anyways, all we can see is that the way the team plays is changing but it's clear we don't really have enough talented players at enough positions to compete with the very top yet.


I see you deleted your message about changing nappies and homework.

We are also pretending that the managers we had didnt get the players they wanted in the first couple of windows? Lets not kid ourselves, the manager okays the transfers.

Lets also get this straight, I think ETH is the man for the job, I am backing him but I am not deluded or brainwashed thinking oh its all hunky dory.

That's been good enough before last season and Ten Hag seems to think he'll be an important part of the team going forward. Maybe some fans need to take a break from following football until the season starts if they can't get over the disappointment of last season.


I done my homework like you said, I think you need to get over the disappointment of last season, because this squad is clearly talented because before the car crash season of last, many were saying is we need to have a title race.

Varane, Malacia, Shaw, Martinez, Eriksen, Sancho, Antony, Casemiro are all talented players. I am not even adding players which some posters think are not talented in Martial, Bruno, Rashford.

We might not have the players to compete with City yet, but we need to be competing for top 4.
 
Well we've to agree to disagree. I think Martinez has been sensational.
I personally think, sensational is pushing it to the extreme. It is obvious why ETH wanted to bring a player like him in. I am more optimistic about him not entering history as a big overpayed transfer than I am with others. But football isn't just having the ball, it is defending as well. And while I am happy with him, to me it is devaluing the word sensational when talking about a part of a defence who received as much as we did already.
 
I see you deleted your message about changing nappies and homework.

I was briefly annoyed by your snarky response, but I corrected it. You're welcome, btw.

We might not have the players to compete with City yet, but we need to be competing for top 4.

We're currently sitting in 5th place with wins over Arsenal and Liverpool. By any conceivable definition, we are currently competing for top 4. If you meant to say "we must finish 4th place at an absolute minimum" then there might be some room for criticism, but definitely not 9 matches in.
 
I personally think, sensational is pushing it to the extreme. It is obvious why ETH wanted to bring a player like him in. I am more optimistic about him not entering history as a big overpayed transfer than I am with others. But football isn't just having the ball, it is defending as well. And while I am happy with him, to me it is devaluing the word sensational when talking about a part of a defence who received as much as we did already.

That's fair. It is my opinion though, cuz I love his style of defending and love his passing. Hopefully it makes sense, I wouldn't argue with anyone who rates him so far at say 7/10 but for me he's been 8.5/10
 
I am hopeful if we can get to the WC in touch and then we have a 6 week break Martial can come back in some kind of fitness for the 2nd part of the season and will make a big difference.

A striker that knows the position and actually stays and plays up front in this team will be a godsend.
 
I was briefly annoyed by your snarky response, but I corrected it. You're welcome, btw.



We're currently sitting in 5th place with wins over Arsenal and Liverpool. By any conceivable definition, we are currently competing for top 4. If you meant to say "we must finish 4th place at an absolute minimum" then there might be some room for criticism, but definitely not 9 matches in.

The thing is I dont think we should finish 4th as a minimum, obviously I would love for us to finish in the CL places.

I wouldn't be critical of Ten Hag if we are playing really well and miss out on top 4.

I know we beat Arsenal and Liverpool, but if we got top 4 playing that way, its not something I would be like omg look at the job Ten Hag done because its similar to how Ole got top 4 right?

I want us to be able to play anyone at home and take the game to them, dominate the ball. Say second half v Newcastle as an example. I want to see us play that kind of football but create more and make sure the chances we give in the first half are cut out.
 
My only critique of ten Hag thus far is the lack of opportunities for our young players like Iqbal, Mainoo or Garnacho. We’re lacking quality in midfield when Eriksen is out and Iqbal likely would’ve made a more positive contribution than Fred. Absolutely no way Iqbal misses that chance.
Mainoo wasn't even mentioned in the list when the season started. Iqbal and Garnacho will get opportunities but don't think it would happen soon. ETH is In a tough position as he needs results and performance. The europa league defeat didn't help the situation either.

Long story short - he hasn't had the opportunity really.
 
I want us to be able to play anyone at home and take the game to them, dominate the ball. Say second half v Newcastle as an example. I want to see us play that kind of football but create more and make sure the chances we give in the first half are cut out.
It's all well and good wanting this, but do you have the patience required to allow the manager the time to implement this?
 
It's all well and good wanting this but do you have the patience required to allow the manager the time to implement this?

After what I have seen in the last 5 years? I think I can survive another. Currently, I am all in Ten Hag, I have seen signs that he deserves his time.

That also doesn't mean its unlimited time, I do want to see us playing a certain brand week in week out by the end of the season.

What I cannot take again is being 18 months into his tenure and we have no identity. At the moment, there looks to be an identity building, mainly in the first 2 phases of play with the ball.

I am still quite concerned with the progress off the ball though, we are too easy to play against.
 
Ajax's goal scoring record under ETH is nothing short of sensational. I expected the same here prior to the window closing. Very disappointed but not unexpected given we didn't sign a striker. Martial was great in preseason. What the feck has happened to him and why can't he stay fit for more than one game? Expected Ronaldo to score more than he has. Stick a fork in him and hope he moves in January and bring in a starter.
 
The thing is I dont think we should finish 4th as a minimum, obviously I would love for us to finish in the CL places.

I wouldn't be critical of Ten Hag if we are playing really well and miss out on top 4.

I know we beat Arsenal and Liverpool, but if we got top 4 playing that way, its not something I would be like omg look at the job Ten Hag done because its similar to how Ole got top 4 right?

I want us to be able to play anyone at home and take the game to them, dominate the ball. Say second half v Newcastle as an example. I want to see us play that kind of football but create more and make sure the chances we give in the first half are cut out.
Fully agree with anything apart from the last sentence. I hope we are striving for more ^^

It's all well and good wanting this, but do you have the patience required to allow the manager the time to implement this?
This question is unfair as it suggests that this patience isn't there. But the real question is, what are we supposed to do UNTIL we are at a place where some sort of judgement is fair? Should we just stop discussion possible issues alltogether just to make sure, nobody feels too much negativity? Or should we just discuss what the manager did well, not so well, badly free from all this nonsense about impatient, negative and spoilt?
 
Blown away at how negative some are on this thread. I don’t think it’s even possible to explain to some how dire things were after the Ralf fiasco. He was, by record, the worst manager for United in 50 years. All the reporting indicated that he was woefully inept as a tactician, in pre game preparation and managing the dressing room.

I just don’t see how the last few months of awful stewardship under Ole, then the Ralf tenure is so easily undone.

Those criticizing Casemiro, Martinez and Antony…. Wow. We picked up arguably the best DM in the world (after years of screaming for a true DM) and his presence has literally allowed us to play out of the high press (along with Eriksen). Antony was thrown straight into the team and is miles better than Elanga or Sancho/ Rashford in that position. Martinez has brought toughness, energy and attitude to the defensive back line, and more importantly, replaced Maguire who needs a long rethink about who he is as a footballer.

Some of you want us to be challenging for top 4… Given the shitshow of last season, and the first 2 matches of the PL, being 3 points off the top 4 in 5th IS challenging for top 4 in my mind. We are going to have ups and downs this season, Ten Hag won’t be perfect in his tactics or subs, but all arrows are pointing up.

I feel like there is a good portion of the Caf who are watching Howson and Goldbridge who are LITERALLY MAKING MONEY by stirring up shite, when by all accounts, we are progressing in generally the right direction. My only advice to those of you whining about Ten Hag: Watch the last few games of Ralf and Ole’s tenure, then watch a few of our recent matches.
 
Fully agree with anything apart from the last sentence. I hope we are striving for more ^^


This question is unfair as it suggests that this patience isn't there. But the real question is, what are we supposed to do UNTIL we are at a place where some sort of judgement is fair? Should we just stop discussion possible issues alltogether just to make sure, nobody feels too much negativity? Or should we just discuss what the manager did well, not so well, badly free from all this nonsense about impatient, negative and spoilt?

Agreed. When you see the posts after Liverpool and Arsenal it was all praise, but if after 9 games and 5 wins, I feel we should be able to criticise the manager on things he didn't do well in some games.

For example, I have seen people saying its Bruno's fault or its Fred's fault that we didnt score, well its the manager who has chosen to pick those players to play in those positions, so he has to take accountability too.

It seems like if we criticise the manager on things, we want him gone, its certainly not the case.
 
Blown away at how negative some are on this thread. I don’t think it’s even possible to explain to some how dire things were after the Ralf fiasco. He was, by record, the worst manager for United in 50 years. All the reporting indicated that he was woefully inept as a tactician, in pre game preparation and managing the dressing room.

I just don’t see how the last few months of awful stewardship under Ole, then the Ralf tenure is so easily undone.

Those criticizing Casemiro, Martinez and Antony…. Wow. We picked up arguably the best DM in the world (after years of screaming for a true DM) and his presence has literally allowed us to play out of the high press (along with Eriksen). Antony was thrown straight into the team and is miles better than Elanga or Sancho/ Rashford in that position. Martinez has brought toughness, energy and attitude to the defensive back line, and more importantly, replaced Maguire who needs a long rethink about who he is as a footballer.

Some of you want us to be challenging for top 4… Given the shitshow of last season, and the first 2 matches of the PL, being 3 points off the top 4 in 5th IS challenging for top 4 in my mind. We are going to have ups and downs this season, Ten Hag won’t be perfect in his tactics or subs, but all arrows are pointing up.

I feel like there is a good portion of the Caf who are watching Howson and Goldbridge who are LITERALLY MAKING MONEY by stirring up shite, when by all accounts, we are progressing in generally the right direction. My only advice to those of you whining about Ten Hag: Watch the last few games of Ralf and Ole’s tenure, then watch a few of our recent matches.
Great advice...
Question: What should I do if I don't share your enthusiasm? Just stop participating in the the thread or stop watching football completely? :)

Seriously - I think I suggested it already. Maybe it is better to just have another thread to keep this one free of all criticism while the other can be declared a no-go-area for everybody whose mood is gentle.
 
I feel like there is a good portion of the Caf who are watching Howson and Goldbridge who are LITERALLY MAKING MONEY by stirring up shite, when by all accounts, we are progressing in generally the right direction. My only advice to those of you whining about Ten Hag: Watch the last few games of Ralf and Ole’s tenure, then watch a few of our recent matches.

I love that advice. Ofcourse, the reason those managers got sacked was because performances and results were so bad.

We are judging ETH's first 9 games, I also then suggest you go watch Ole's first 9 games which was progress from Jose.

Go watch Ralfs first few, it looked like progress too.

Remember, its not about how the managers start, its their ability to improve the team consistently and get them playing well on a consistent basis.
 
Agreed. When you see the posts after Liverpool and Arsenal it was all praise, but if after 9 games and 5 wins, I feel we should be able to criticise the manager on things he didn't do well in some games.

For example, I have seen people saying its Bruno's fault or its Fred's fault that we didnt score, well its the manager who has chosen to pick those players to play in those positions, so he has to take accountability too.

It seems like if we criticise the manager on things, we want him gone, its certainly not the case.
Absolutely.

And it isn't like we are some sort of mid management at United who are actually souring the working atmosphere with some sort of nitpicking. We are a bunch of no names on the internet, trying to figure things out and guessing more often then not. It shouldn't be taken too seriously, of course we will not agree on anything, but it is full on BS to expect some sort of common overpositive spirit. This is what people have laughed at at RAWK. And now we are getting closer and closer.

We will have a different discussion when there actually are large fractions of the fanbase asking for the manager to go because of BS reasons. But we are not even close to such a state but the backlash is already out of hand. Of course every person here is free to do whatever he/she likes - but I am pretty sure, that this sort of polarisation will only lead to more hyperbole which was something, that pushed people away from this forum not too long ago.
 
I want us to be able to play anyone at home and take the game to them, dominate the ball. Say second half v Newcastle as an example. I want to see us play that kind of football but create more and make sure the chances we give in the first half are cut out.
If you want that, then maybe start supporting City. We won’t (and shouldn’t) be going toe-to-toe possession-wise with City, and that’s the smart way to play them. Pep is a purist, Ten Hag is not. Pep’s weaknesses in his tactical setup are always there, and great teams can always exploit it. You saw Klopp move to a 4-4-2, defend deeper and play Salah more centrally instead of going 4-3-3 with TAA. They won, and it should have been at least 2-0 or 3-1. It’s Pep’s greatest weakness, and it’s a major reason why he’s failed to win the CL without Messi.

What I want with Utd is wins and trophies, and I’m totally fine with being tactically flexible to achieve those goals. Of course, I want to be able to break teams down who come out in a low block, we’ll need those wins to challenge for the title. But we should have a manager and players/squad who can adapt to an opponent when necessary. Look at El Clasico this past weekend. Real was cruising the entire match, even though Barca had the possession advantage.
 
If you want that, then maybe start supporting City. We won’t (and shouldn’t) be going toe-to-toe possession-wise with City, and that’s the smart way to play them. Pep is a purist, Ten Hag is not. Pep’s weaknesses in his tactical setup are always there, and great teams can always exploit it. You saw Klopp move to a 4-4-2, defend deeper and play Salah more centrally instead of going 4-3-3 with TAA. They won, and it should have been at least 2-0 or 3-1. It’s Pep’s greatest weakness, and it’s a major reason why he’s failed to win the CL without Messi.

What I want with Utd is wins and trophies, and I’m totally fine with being tactically flexible to achieve those goals. Of course, I want to be able to break teams down who come out in a low block, we’ll need those wins to challenge for the title. But we should have a manager and players/squad who can adapt to an opponent when necessary. Look at El Clasico this past weekend. Real was cruising the entire match, even though Barca had the possession advantage.
You've got to be kidding :D :D :D Are we there already? Fantastic. You want something to be worried about regarding this forum? It is stuff like this people should be worried about.
 
That's fair. It is my opinion though, cuz I love his style of defending and love his passing. Hopefully it makes sense, I wouldn't argue with anyone who rates him so far at say 7/10 but for me he's been 8.5/10
Yeah fair enough. I mean, as soon as you describe your approach, I have not the slightest of issues with it. I personally don't consider play style into such a rating, but why the hell not. Only shows that sometimes stuff is difficult to compare so maybe we (not you specifically of course) shouldn't react full force all the time when we read something, but ask ourselves how it could be meant.
 
After what I have seen in the last 5 years? I think I can survive another. Currently, I am all in Ten Hag, I have seen signs that he deserves his time.

That also doesn't mean its unlimited time, I do want to see us playing a certain brand week in week out by the end of the season.

What I cannot take again is being 18 months into his tenure and we have no identity. At the moment, there looks to be an identity building, mainly in the first 2 phases of play with the ball.

I am still quite concerned with the progress off the ball though, we are too easy to play against.
Yeah there is definitely an identity building. The very beginnings of this identity has been evident from his first pre season game in charge. Obviously there were a couple of early setbacks in the league, so we resorted to a more pragmatic style in order to grind out wins and get points on the board. In recent weeks though it has been clear that ten Hag has gone back to his plan A. The first half at Everton and the second half against Newcastle is something to give us hope.
 
The thing is I dont think we should finish 4th as a minimum, obviously I would love for us to finish in the CL places.

I wouldn't be critical of Ten Hag if we are playing really well and miss out on top 4.

I know we beat Arsenal and Liverpool, but if we got top 4 playing that way, its not something I would be like omg look at the job Ten Hag done because its similar to how Ole got top 4 right?

I want us to be able to play anyone at home and take the game to them, dominate the ball. Say second half v Newcastle as an example. I want to see us play that kind of football but create more and make sure the chances we give in the first half are cut out.

ETH has said this after every match we've played this season, so obviously he's got the same goal. We went from not being able to play out from the back without coughing up the ball in the first two matches to doing it with relative ease and setting up camp in the attacking 3rd in the last 2 matches. At some point the players also just need to finish their chances.


Agreed. When you see the posts after Liverpool and Arsenal it was all praise, but if after 9 games and 5 wins, I feel we should be able to criticise the manager on things he didn't do well in some games.

For example, I have seen people saying its Bruno's fault or its Fred's fault that we didnt score, well its the manager who has chosen to pick those players to play in those positions, so he has to take accountability too.

It seems like if we criticise the manager on things, we want him gone, its certainly not the case.

Criticizing the team selection only makes sense if the manager actually has viable alternatives. This is why people bring up the squad composition in response to your criticism. The manager doesn't manage in a vacuum, he can only pick from the players he has and for the Newcastle match, Fred and Bruno were the only two available players for those positions as Eriksen and Donny van de Beek were injured and McTominay was suspended.

Nobody has any problems with legitimate criticism, but all the doubts thus far are essentially just whinging about early results (which aren't even outside of realistic expectations). Which excellent players is ETH leaving on the bench that would have us winning? What tactical blunder caused the failures to finish against Omonia and Newcastle? How is it useful criticism to skewer the manager over team selection decisions that aren't actually decisions and doing a captain hindsight by saying such and such player shouldn't have started because he missed a sitter?
 
I love that advice. Ofcourse, the reason those managers got sacked was because performances and results were so bad.

We are judging ETH's first 9 games, I also then suggest you go watch Ole's first 9 games which was progress from Jose.

Go watch Ralfs first few, it looked like progress too.

Remember, its not about how the managers start, its their ability to improve the team consistently and get them playing well on a consistent basis.
It’s funny you say that… Based on Ole’s results in his first 14 matches, he would have been your favorite manager in the history of United because he won every match, no? Disagree on Ralf, we looked shit from the beginning, and don’t point to the 45 minutes at Crystal Palace. It was an anomaly in a historically bad season.

“Things always end badly, otherwise they wouldn’t end.” I always loved that quote because it seemed so true. Ten Hag won’t be manager in perpetuity, he’ll either be sacked (let’s hope not), get poached by PSG or Bayern or Real, or retire at some point after a long, trophy laden career at Man United.
 
This question is unfair as it suggests that this patience isn't there. But the real question is, what are we supposed to do UNTIL we are at a place where some sort of judgement is fair? Should we just stop discussion possible issues alltogether just to make sure, nobody feels too much negativity? Or should we just discuss what the manager did well, not so well, badly free from all this nonsense about impatient, negative and spoilt?
I haven't read through the thread, but the impression I had was that the poster didn't have the patience required, hence my question. In his reply, he made it clear that he is willing to give him the season at least with certain conditions met. Discussion is fair, but it has to be realistic. I haven't seen a lot wrong so far. We are far from perfect and that is to be expected, but there are encouraging signs.
 
You've got to be kidding :D :D :D Are we there already? Fantastic. You want something to be worried about regarding this forum? It is stuff like this people should be worried about.
City is the one team in world football, maybe 2 in Barca where you can lock down a possession advantage. Both Pep and Xavi are purists, but they are not the Man United manager. If out possessing every team is your highest priority in the club you support, then it’s logical. We’ll never out possess City as long as Pep is the manager. Lock it in stone. However, we can beat them if we are smart. I’d rather win than out-possess a team…
 
City is the one team in world football, maybe 2 in Barca where you can lock down a possession advantage. Both Pep and Xavi are purists, but they are not the Man United manager. If out possessing every team is your highest priority in the club you support, then it’s logical. We’ll never out possess City as long as Pep is the manager. Lock it in stone. However, we can beat them if we are smart. I’d rather win than out-possess a team…
You don't even get the actual point which is pretty discouraging. All you say about City or possession, it might be wrong, it might be right. But recommending others to follow another club just because you don't agree with them or your perception of reality is bad. It paints a bad picture of you. And this stuff is causing this back and forth irrational BS which at some point will lead to things like hyperbole, polarization and negativity. But thats surely other people fault right?
 
I haven't read through the thread, but the impression I had was that the poster didn't have the patience required, hence my question. In his reply, he made it clear that he is willing to give him the season at least with certain conditions met. Discussion is fair, but it has to be realistic. I haven't seen a lot wrong so far. We are far from perfect and that is to be expected, but there are encouraging signs.
Fair enough. We just have to remind ourselves, that "realistic" isn't some sort of measurable normed term. It is based on expectations and therefor, unfortunately, pretty subjective as well.
 
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