Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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Regardless of his coaching ability, it's very unlikely we are going to get top 4. If we don't win europa league, I wouldn't put it pass these arseholes to sack him.

People make these posts as if United has ever been proactive when it comes to sacking managers. We don't do that unless it's some sort of new rock bottom reached

For clarification, I'm not saying he should be sacked, I'm just saying that job security is not something that managers come to worry about at United unless things have gone completely sour
 
We know that the club bid for Arnautović this summer. So the need for a central striker was identified. So the question is why the feck didn’t we go for anybody else?

I cannot believe that the board placed their trust in a 37 year old Ronaldo that had spent the entire summer trying to engineer a move away, and Martial that had just failed miserably in his loan spell.

It’s utter madness.
We needed a lot of players, Ronaldo had no takers, no RW and Antony being a clear prime target available made us go for him. No clear striker choice plus Ten Hag likes Martial. Fitness is the only problem there and that's hard to predict.
 
People make these posts as if United has ever been proactive when it comes to sacking managers. We don't do that unless it's some sort of new rock bottom reached

For clarification, I'm not saying he should be sacked, I'm just saying that job security is not something that managers come to worry about at United unless things have gone completely sour
Apart from when Ole came in as caretaker, we've sacked every manager who has failed to get top 4. LVG won a cup and got sacked in the same day.

You would hope things will be different considering the last season and the current state of the squad, but the Glazers sacking Ten Hag if we miss out on CL isn't a impossible outcome.
 
We needed a lot of players, Ronaldo had no takers, no RW and Antony being a clear prime target available made us go for him. No clear striker choice plus Ten Hag likes Martial. Fitness is the only problem there and that's hard to predict.
We need Martial back, but you wonder if it being a break for the World Cup might help get him fit.
 
Thank you for clarifying your position. I won't waste any more of my time arguing with someone who has such a myopic perspective of where we are now compared to where we were 6 months ago.

It's called looking at the bigger picture and putting the puzzles together
 
We know that the club bid for Arnautović this summer. So the need for a central striker was identified. So the question is why the feck didn’t we go for anybody else?

I cannot believe that the board placed their trust in a 37 year old Ronaldo that had spent the entire summer trying to engineer a move away, and Martial that had just failed miserably in his loan spell.

It’s utter madness.

It's madness but end of the day it's all Woodward, Judge and Ole's fault. They're the ones who conspired to give Martial and Ronaldo a combined £750k a week.

If there was a club out there willing to take Martial and/or Ronaldo off our hands then signing a striker would have happened.

Until they're off the books all hands are tied.
 
Regardless of his coaching ability, it's very unlikely we are going to get top 4. If we don't win europa league, I wouldn't put it pass these arseholes to sack him.

It was always more likely than not that we would finish outside top four this season. In fact the actual odds suggested five other teams were more likely to finish in the top four than us, with 6th place being our predicted league position via the bookmakers. And that remains the case.

I'm very sure the club aren't so unaware of that reality that they would think missing out on top four is in itself a sacking offence in season one under ETH.
 
Happy with the way we dominated a good Newcastle side. I know its baby steps but we are starting to control games better. Our lack of a great CF is killing us.

This. Baby steps, but it is clear improvement. Striker and a midfielder who is press resistent and can carry the ball would massively improve us. That said, the board shouldn't rely on ten Hag to identify one if De Jong is not available.
 
Apart from when Ole came in as caretaker, we've sacked every manager who has failed to get top 4. LVG won a cup and got sacked in the same day.

You would hope things will be different considering the last season and the current state of the squad, but the Glazers sacking Ten Hag if we miss out on CL isn't a impossible outcome.

The club has invested too much - money as well - in ten Hag to let him go after a year. He's very much safe.

Also, I think the idea that we sack a manager because he does not get a CL spot is a bit of a myth, partly created by Moyes being sacked the moment top 4 was no longer possible (which may had somethng to do with compensation). Obviously a manager who does badly enough to be sacked is unlikely to finish in the top 4 anyway. It doesn't make it the reason for the sacking.
 
I genuinely am baffled how any United fan can’t be encouraged by this start. I genuinely don’t get it.
I’m a bit underwhelmed. I’m not sure what I should be leaning on to be “encouraged”. The data suggests we are fortunate to have even got the results and points we have had, and I can’t point to good performances against decent teams, or the emergence of a real style of play and strengths on which we will build.

I don’t think we have seen much more than the minimum of what I expected so far. We were obviously going to be better than under Rangnick’s disastrous spell.

If anything, I think Ten Hag probably has a far tougher job than we necessary expected given how good Arsenal look, the fact Conte is becoming settled at Spurs and that Chelsea have made a sane managerial appointment.
 
The only thing (if you ask me) you can hold against him today is that he took off Ronaldo when things got tight.. Can't help thinking it would have been different if Ronaldo got in the positions Fred/Rashford were in the end..

Yeah but Ronaldo would not be making Rashford's run and Rashford would not be in that last defenders shoulder position to make that run.
 
I'm a troll, because I expect us to be playing better football after spending over 230 million and bringing in Pep's apparent prodigy? Get over yourself , we've brought in an unproven manager from a weak league who has question marks around him and I'm simply questioning exactly what he's brought to the table so far. And so far there's a lot to be desired. We've already been stomped on by the likes of Brighton, Brentford and city where we could have lost 10-0 if city didn't make wholesale changes to rest key players.

I'm not talking about today even though we could has easily been 2-0 down in the first half after Varane dropped one of their players in box and then the corner miss I'm talking about games against arsenal, Liverpool, Leicester and key parts of everton game where we've ended up sitting deep and relying on counters

All the players who brought forth toxicity and dressing room leaks mostly have left, pogba, lingard, henderson, Cavani, Bailey. The only player that's left who's toxic is Ronaldo. Other than that he's been given a clean slate.

We all heard over the summer that he needed his players which were all from erevidese league to help implement his special system immediately. He's got his players and I dont see any system being implemented other than a few good overlaps with the wingers and fullbacks and a bit more hunger from the players.

Tactically there is nothing revolutionary and I watched Ajax a lot last season under Hag and I didn't see much special then other than flat track bullying teams with a quarter of Ajax's budget.

Blimey. Not a fan of Ten Hag then? :lol:
 
Calling a spade a spade, if its Ralf, Ole, Mourinho or LVG they would have been slated for performances/results like today. We need to improve quickly because the top 5 will be out of sight if we don't given their consistency.
 
I’m a bit underwhelmed. I’m not sure what I should be leaning on to be “encouraged”. The data suggests we are fortunate to have even got the results and points we have had, and I can’t point to good performances against decent teams, or the emergence of a real style of play and strengths on which we will build.

I don’t think we have seen much more than the minimum of what I expected so far. We were obviously going to be better than under Rangnick’s disastrous spell.

If anything, I think Ten Hag probably has a far tougher job than we necessary expected given how good Arsenal look, the fact Conte is becoming settled at Spurs and that Chelsea have made a sane managerial appointment.
We still have holes in that team, seems like I have been saying that for years. We need another RB or at least a viable backup, a backup for Eriksen and a striker. I have doubts about Bruno as I still consider him wasteful and DDG, who is a good goalkeeper, but I am not sure if he will be the weak link once ETH gets his team complete and his system up and running properly. In fact a couple of strikers as cannot guarantee Martial will stay fit and Rashford is not clinical enough to be a striker.
 
I’m starting to think that the real change ETH needs to make is replacing DDG. DDG is a great shot stopper but he is not a keeper who can play from the back. The lack of control is partly to DDG lumping the ball all the time. When we try to play from the back then DDG passes to Fred who is covered by 3 opposition players…
 
I am not ecstatic - but at the same time, we had the worst possible start - and after that we had Liverpool, Arsenal and City in the next 5 games - so I am absolutely giving Ten Hag some respite. And it cant be easy turning around a team as bad as the one we had at the end of last season.

There are obvious flaws in our squad - and we need 2-3 more players to correct them. I thought our first half today was poor - but we looked much better after the break - and I think we would have won the game if we had fresh legs on the bench. Newcastle are strong at the moment, so I am quietly happy that we dominated them so much in the second half, but of course we created too little.

But yes - Top-4 will be hard simply because Arsenal, Spurs and Chelsea look much better than I expected. A lot will depend on our next 2 games - if we are still in contact after having played Liverpool, Brighton, City, Arsenal, Tottenham, Newcastle and Chelsea in our first 11 games - we have a very good chance to pick up a lot of points after the world cup.
 
I’m starting to think that the real change ETH needs to make is replacing DDG. DDG is a great shot stopper but he is not a keeper who can play from the back. The lack of control is partly to DDG lumping the ball all the time. When we try to play from the back then DDG passes to Fred who is covered by 3 opposition players…
Actually his passing has been better this season and a lot. Also kicking and he's not glued up to the line.
 
There's no doubt in my mind, that if we end up with the same points total as last season finishing far behind top 4 after investing so much, then questions need to be asked.

Real Madrid wouldn't tolerate it, Bayern wouldn't tolerate it and sure as hell Chelsea wouldn't tolerate it.

Manchester United have to start being ruthless and there is no room for blind trust in a manager coming from The Eredivisie. Don't forget Frank De Beor didn't even last more than 5 games for palace and he was ripping the dutch league apart winning back to back consecutive titles. Barca showed no mercy to Van Gaal in his first season after he butchered the first half of their season.
 
The only thing (if you ask me) you can hold against him today is that he took off Ronaldo when things got tight.. Can't help thinking it would have been different if Ronaldo got in the positions Fred/Rashford were in the end..
The only thing you can hold against him is starting Ronaldo at all. I saw Denis Law in the stands and I think he would have done a better job leading the line.
 
There's no doubt in my mind, that if we end up with the same points total as last season finishing far behind top 4 after investing so much, then questions need to be asked.

Real Madrid wouldn't tolerate it, Bayern wouldn't tolerate it and sure as hell Chelsea wouldn't tolerate it.

Manchester United have to start being ruthless and there is no room for blind trust in a manager coming from The Eredivisie. Don't forget Frank De Beor didn't even last more than 5 games for palace and he was ripping the dutch league apart winning back to back consecutive titles. Barca showed no mercy to Van Gaal in his first season after he butchered the first half of their season.
OK, you're definitely a wum.
 
Calling a spade a spade, if its Ralf, Ole, Mourinho or LVG they would have been slated for performances/results like today. We need to improve quickly because the top 5 will be out of sight if we don't given their consistency.
Did we have more than about 3-4 performances last year where we had as much control against another top 10 last season?
 
He didn't have any room for manoeuvre today.
McTominay, Eriksen out, Rashford ill, Martial injured. The team picks itself.
Looking at his starting 11, I don't think there are too many issues there. He gave Ronaldo plenty of time on the pitch and then took him off at the right time (imo) for Rashford. He made the best use out of the players at his disposal.

The issue is the players that he has at his disposal.
Can see why Erik wants a striker and a midfielder.
Rashford was ill and Martial was not fit. So he had to start Ronaldo who is not good enough any more.
Fred is not good enough to play for us.

But the parasitic Disneyland fans wont spend.

The manager is set up to fail.
I genuinely am baffled how any United fan can’t be encouraged by this start. I genuinely don’t get it.

This is where I am.

I see tremendous improvement in our on and off the ball movement.

I was very impressed with our 2nd half. Patient, controlling the game, probing. From that we ended up with 2 chances (we absolutely should have scored) and what should have been a pen on Sancho.

I have no doubt if we have Eriksen fit, we will be contending for top 4, whether we get it or not. Everything depends for me on his availability.
 
Those who can only think about the money spent are clueless.

The squad has been left to rot with revenue generating signings.
No investments in the positions needed and an artificial budget so the Glazers can take out their dividends.
 
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Strange how fans watch football their entire lives and still expect United to win every match.

No one expects United to win the league...so it goes in hand that they won't win every game. On another day they win a penalty or 1 of the 2 late chances goes in.

Stop judging a team/manager every 90 minutes.
 
Be patient and supportive, folks, he however needs to make his ends (table position + style) meet and your squad is nowhere near his ideal squad yet. Next game vs in-form Spurs will be a great opportunity to showcase the progress.
 
Did we have more than about 3-4 performances last year where we had as much control against another top 10 last season?
Is the bar set as low as 'have more control than games we also didn't win last season'?

It wasn't good enough and the season will soon descend into '6th at best' just like last season if it continues.
 
Conte is there 2 years now. Do you see patterns or some kind of style of play? No. They are grinding their wins (which is also a trait and congrats on that). But we are more and more looking as a team who can dominate games. Give this team proper striker and we are there.
Do really? I mean, yes xG over 4 against the 6th place in Cyprus league sounds good but I think we are still way to slow (at least too often) to reliably create chances. And that means to dominate, right? It isn't just having possession but making use of it, creating chances and denying the opposition.

I’m a bit underwhelmed. I’m not sure what I should be leaning on to be “encouraged”. The data suggests we are fortunate to have even got the results and points we have had, and I can’t point to good performances against decent teams, or the emergence of a real style of play and strengths on which we will build.

I don’t think we have seen much more than the minimum of what I expected so far. We were obviously going to be better than under Rangnick’s disastrous spell.

If anything, I think Ten Hag probably has a far tougher job than we necessary expected given how good Arsenal look, the fact Conte is becoming settled at Spurs and that Chelsea have made a sane managerial appointment.
Completely agree with this.
 
You can be disappointed with the result but I think you cannot ignore the second half performance. We beat Leicester and Southampton without playing anywhere near as good as we did today
 
This is where I am.

I see tremendous improvement in our on and off the ball movement.

I was very impressed with our 2nd half. Patient, controlling the game, probing. From that we ended up with 2 chances (we absolutely should have scored) and what should have been a pen on Sancho.

I have no doubt if we have Eriksen fit, we will be contending for top 4, whether we get it or not. Everything depends for me on his availability.

The biggest issue, by far, is that we don't really have enough up top to put away chances. There's lots of players 'behind the ball' but nobody really taking the onus to put chances away or to get on the end of a cross or cutback. It does seem like most of our players (in an attacking sense) like to play out wide or in the hole. There was one moment towards the end where we were camped on the edge of the box and just passed it around, with virtually most of our team in front of the ball or wide. The control in the second half was better, but it's now converting that into goals. I don't think a feck-ton of target practice would go amiss either!

With the personnel we have right now, this is going to be pretty difficult, imo. Unless we do play the whole 'stick Ronaldo in the box and just give the ball to him' game, which...may not be a totally terrible idea in theory, but is a little hit and miss in practice.
 
Blimey. Not a fan of Ten Hag then? :lol:

You''ll be hard pressed to find anyone one more desperate for Ten Hag to succeed than me. I love his no nonsense attitude and meticulous attention to detail. But the red flags are coming in hard right now, where all the warnings from previous ajax managers regarding his stubbornness, inexperience with dealing with big egos and inflexibility to do with making quick in game changes have been flashing through my mind over the last few weeks.

You can look at my post history and I've been open minded and full of excitement about the potential discipline and tactical set up he can bring which have mostly been going off his performances in the CL rather than Ajax's performances in the dutch league, where I haven't been much impressed with the solidity of the of football they played.

Defensively his ajax team were always suspect to counters and the disparity in quality in their squad compared to the other teams like vitesse, sparta rotterdam and utrecht the quality always came out on top rather than any tactical masterclasses.

We don't have that luxury of having more superior players to 85 percent of the rest of the league, so tactics, team cohesion and flexibility is vitally needed to be displayed if we wish to close the gap. Is Ten Hag equipped to bridge the gap with tactical astuteness alone along with a squad filled with world class internationals? well the jury is still out for me.
 
I despair at the FM/FIFA generation and their inability to be positive just because the team didn't win.
How old are that generation in your opinion? I am 43 and I try no to post after matches. Because I when I recall my blood boiling at 94th minute...:devil::lol: The team is actually is much much better than the last season. ETH is more than meeting my expectations.
 
Playing Ronaldo up front will be his funeral. Same as Maguire was Solskjaer's.
If he can't see that then that is a problem
 
Playing Ronaldo up front will be his funeral. Same as Maguire was Solskjaer's.
If he can't see that then that is a problem

I'm sure he'd rather have a striker that fits his style than Ronnie. But people need to be realistic here, Rashford feeling ill and Martial, as so often, out injured. What is he meant to do? Play Elanga there? Bruno as a false nine (with Eriksen also missing)?

I actually think Ronaldo should have finished the match, but I do get ETH needs to keep the two of them fresh given the fixture pile up.

The main problem with Ronaldo (apart from him wanting out all summer, missing pre-season and being a right twat) now is not really how he plays, but how players around him defer to him. That's what ETH needs to sort out in the short-term. And of course he will simply have to pressure the club to spend on a striker in January.
 
I think, he didn't do all too much today, no good nor bad, team picked himself more or less and game plan wise he was restricted to what the personnel is able to offer. In total, I like what I see, he is able to react in game, he seems to be able to sub people who aren't playing well and I trust him, to up our level as a team in general.

I noted two points though, that I find irritating:

a) his insistence to play Bruno in the way Bruno plays. For whatever reason, Bruno isn't really contributing much. Yet he is still on the pitch the whole 90minutes. I think, that is problematic, he is the appointed captain, fair enough, but I have a feeling, that he isn't as strict in terms of handling players towards Bruno than he is to others.

b) I feel, our approach isn't really "tight". He seems to like to have his wingers high and wide. Which is fine of course but then the rest of the team has to try to stay closer to them. Today Fred (who undeniably had a pretty bad game) had acres of space to work on because Shaw stayed rather deep. This led to our midfield being "broken", as Fred was all over the place, Casemiro was close to defence and Bruno did what Bruno always does, he is drawn towards the penalty box. Don't get me wrong, I get the system, FBs tuck in, next to CMs so wingers can stay wide. But the FBs aren't dynamic enough to make it work. I watched City today, Pep is one of the first managers (afaik) who employed that inverted FB thing and has his wingers play wide and high but it was estonishing, how much defensive work has been done by Foden especially.

Of course, it will take time to get somewhere but I feel it is rather odd, that ETH seems to be intend to stick to a somewhat flawed system, especially if the keyplayer in Eriksen is missing (whos presence covered most of the systematic issues before).
 
I haven't watched, like, the last 4 games, since that City debacle, except for the last 30 minutes of the Everton game. Not sure if that's a good sign of how United is making me interested in football. I just knew there was a game tonight.
 
I despair at the FM/FIFA generation and their inability to be positive just because the team didn't win.
I started playing FM back in 1998 when it was called Championship manager but I think it’s FIFA ultimate team that has ruined anyone’s ability to be realistic about progress.
 
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