Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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kaku06 said:
I hope so mate, I was just surprised that it wasn’t the first thing that got prioritised at all costs in these 4 months by signings players to suit such style of play but as you said that needs a whole lot more players to achieve that.
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I don’t really understand what your expectations are. We clearly are trying something different to what the previous 3 managers tried, it’s very early on and we have some major issues in the team. That said, against almost all the ‘lesser’ teams we’ve played we’ve had the lion’s share of the ball - take out City and we’ve had since 60% plus since Sociedad.

There are major problems with our central striker which is very obviously key for any team, we also don’t really have a keeper for this style and then I’d say it’s fair to say a number of starters probably aren’t old enough if we want to get to a place where we can boss games and win trophies.

This is heading the way of LVG’s first season where it was all about putting a structure in place and we tightened up at the back very quickly, the difference is ETH’s signings have been much more successful so far. Top four will be tough and a lot rests on Martial/getting a new striker in Jan in my opinion because I don’t think we can rely on Ronaldo anymore.
 
kaku06 said:
I hope so mate, I was just surprised that it wasn’t the first thing that got prioritised at all costs in these 4 months by signings players to suit such style of play but as you said that needs a whole lot more players to achieve that.
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It will take time but glimpses are there, for example the game play which led to sancho's penalty appeal was very good. In fact commentators also pointed how we have started doing the patient play and were successful against arsenal by pulling their players out of position. It will come, but as I said we lack players who can do that on consistent basis. A fdj in this side would have helped us immensely. Look at his signings, barring Casemiro all othet signings are very good on the ball. So he is targeting the correct player but all cannot be achieved in 13 games.
 
No... we must have the ball 85%, win 5-0 and the opposition must not have any chances, otherwise this manager is a failure. #anxietyaversereds
 
Starting to hate the saying in modern day football but 'Trust the process'.

This manager isn't an idiot. If we back him and are patient with him then better days are coming for us. It's not going to happen overnight though sadly so there's going to be plenty of bumps in the road.
 
Win on Wednesday and that’s obviously a better return than two draws against teams around us. However, lose against Spurs and it suddenly looks very different.

I can definitely see the progress already under ETH though, and not his fault that the previous regimes and current owners have eroded all of my patience.
 
Someone said:
I'm happy with the progress, you can see it all over the pitch. I'm 100% sure though that in 2 years the squad won't be recognizable from what we have today. Even with all our spending you can tell this is a good but rather flawed squad.
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I agree. I think ETH may need at least 2 more windows to compete at the very top. But you can see he has the stuff. The right stuff that is.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
It's an egregious myth that you need to spend £500m to play possession football. Last season Burnley had the second lowest amount of possession of all the teams in the top 5 leagues in Europe. Under Vincent Kompany (a manager with an unremarkable record so far in management) they are now averaging 64% possession per game as they lead the Championship. To draw the contrast, compared to the highest team possession average in Europe's top 5 leagues that would put Burnley as equal to the 5th highest possession retaining team. From the very bottom to the very top. This occurred within a single pre-season.
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Imagine a team dropping down a division and averaging more possession.

This is the kind of insight I come here for.
 
Trequarista10 said:
Imagine a team dropping down a division and averaging more possession.

This is the kind of insight I come here for.
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They have dropped a division correct but that doesn’t account for a such a radical change in playing style. They’ve gone from one extreme to another all within a pre-season. They’ve gone from being a long ball team to an extreme possession hogging side. As I said originally, it’s a total myth that you need to spend crazy amounts of money over numerous years to play possession football. Believe it if you want.
 
kaku06 said:
Because we can’t keep possession and play counter against decent teams? Liverpool, Sociedad, Arsenal, City even Leicester? Do you not watch our games?
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If Pep had this United team and ETH had that City team do you think we'd have more possession ?

That is a generally baffling statement.
 
I havent been able to see many games this season so far. Whats the general feeling does ETG have us on the right path, can people see progress?
 
Classical Mechanic said:
They have dropped a division correct but that doesn’t account for a such a radical change in playing style. They’ve gone from one extreme to another all within a pre-season. They’ve gone from being a long ball team to an extreme possession hogging side. As I said originally, it’s a total myth that you need to spend crazy amounts of money over numerous years to play possession football. Believe it if you want.
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True, you just need to get relegated. :)

I jest, I get your point just think Burnley aren't a great example. It's not about money it's about what qualities your players have, and what they are capable of at the level they are competing at. We could play our youngsters and play possession football, but we wouldn't get results in the PL. Like any good manager, ETH has a semblance of pragmatism. Anyone who watched his Ajax side knows what his style of play is or can be. We will see over time the players who can't play possession football phased out or moved on, and more incomings who fit the bill. Midfield is the core to any team and most defines a team's style of play. Inheriting a midfield of Bruno, Fred and McTominay, ETH has done as good as could reasonably have been expected in this particular regard.

Moving on the likes of Fred and AWB seems inevitable. ETH will likely be relieved when Ronaldo's contract expires. Maguire isn't going to be winning his place back anytime soon and will probably agree with the club its best for everyone he moves on (slow defenders struggle in possessionsides due to the high defensive line). I expect each of those four to be replaced by players who can play possession football to a high enough standard. Money not really a factor, it may be an academy player, free transfer, bargain buy, or an £80m transfer. McTominay and Shaw were both sidelined early on by ETH but both have won back their place and may forge their way into ETHs medium to long term plans for the squad. The bigger or more challenging conundrums for ETH may be Bruno and De Gea, and it'll be interesting to see how he manages those situations.
 
Stack said:
I havent been able to see many games this season so far. Whats the general feeling does ETG have us on the right path, can people see progress?
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Definite progress overall. We look like a team who actually trains together now which hasn't been the case the past 18 months. I would say it is much more apparent in our ability to play out from the back and transition the ball into our forward line, but there is still room for improvement in terms of our actual attacking output/creativity for sure. We clearly lack a quality striker with Martial being unfit which plays a big role in that for sure. I also think we have struggled at times playing out from goal kicks especially earlier in the season largely due to De Gea and whoever is the DM not being overly comfortable with it.

Overall definitely more positives than negatives, and he has generally made appropriate in game adjustments that have often changed the game in our favor which was a criticism some had of him at Ajax. If we can continue to back him by adding another midfielder, striker, and right back, we should continue to improve.
 
Red-17 said:
Definite progress overall. We look like a team who actually trains together now which hasn't been the case the past 18 months. I would say it is much more apparent in our ability to play out from the back and transition the ball into our forward line, but there is still room for improvement in terms of our actual attacking output/creativity for sure. We clearly lack a quality striker with Martial being unfit which plays a big role in that for sure. I also think we have struggled at times playing out from goal kicks especially earlier in the season largely due to De Gea and whoever is the DM not being overly comfortable with it.

Overall definitely more positives than negatives, and he has generally made appropriate in game adjustments that have often changed the game in our favor which was a criticism some had of him at Ajax. If we can continue to back him by adding another midfielder, striker, and right back, we should continue to improve.
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Not true at all. And it will have nothing to do with the system or training. It is all about Dave not being able to pass to save his life with the likes of Dalot and Varane being there. Being lucky to get out of their press once in a while is not the sign. There were several feckups in many games right in front of our boxes in the same games.
 
The United said:
Not true at all. And it will have nothing to do with the system or training. It is all about Dave not being able to pass to save his life with the likes of Dalot and Varane being there. Being lucky to get out of their press once in a while is not the sign. There were several feckups in many games right in front of our boxes in the same games.
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Did you just stop reading at the bolded text? I literally said as much a few sentences later...

We have clearly been more structured in playing out from the back compared to recent seasons even if there have been errors at times.
 
Red-17 said:
Did you just stop reading at the bolded text? I literally said as much a few sentences later...

We have clearly been more structured in playing out from the back compared to recent seasons even if there have been errors at times.
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No we have not. If anything, we have been using long balls a lot this season.
 
crossy1686 said:
I started playing FM back in 1998 when it was called Championship manager but I think it’s FIFA ultimate team that has ruined anyone’s ability to be realistic about progress.
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Same. I'm still playing today.
Difference is, I'm not delusional who can't differentiate real, actual football match with a computer game
 
Stack said:
I havent been able to see many games this season so far. Whats the general feeling does ETG have us on the right path, can people see progress?
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What we can see for sure is that many people in here really want to see progress. I think, what the other poster mentioned was pretty fair, we are making more use of the ball, we seem to be not as afraid of having it and we are using space in a more organized way. We are still very open for fast attacks, we still often lack intensity. I think, he is moving us in the right direction. Though I guess, some would have hoped it to be a bit more "significant". But there are many possible and plausible reasons for it, be it the recruitment, be it the existing players or the sheer quantity of the challenge that is Make Manchester United great again.

Trequarista10 said:
True, you just need to get relegated. :)

I jest, I get your point just think Burnley aren't a great example. It's not about money it's about what qualities your players have, and what they are capable of at the level they are competing at. We could play our youngsters and play possession football, but we wouldn't get results in the PL. Like any good manager, ETH has a semblance of pragmatism. Anyone who watched his Ajax side knows what his style of play is or can be. We will see over time the players who can't play possession football phased out or moved on, and more incomings who fit the bill. Midfield is the core to any team and most defines a team's style of play. Inheriting a midfield of Bruno, Fred and McTominay, ETH has done as good as could reasonably have been expected in this particular regard.

Moving on the likes of Fred and AWB seems inevitable. ETH will likely be relieved when Ronaldo's contract expires. Maguire isn't going to be winning his place back anytime soon and will probably agree with the club its best for everyone he moves on (slow defenders struggle in possessionsides due to the high defensive line). I expect each of those four to be replaced by players who can play possession football to a high enough standard. Money not really a factor, it may be an academy player, free transfer, bargain buy, or an £80m transfer. McTominay and Shaw were both sidelined early on by ETH but both have won back their place and may forge their way into ETHs medium to long term plans for the squad. The bigger or more challenging conundrums for ETH may be Bruno and De Gea, and it'll be interesting to see how he manages those situations.
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You could just use us as an example when LVG took over. We went from whatever we were in Fergies later years and then under Moyes to an absolute possession hogger team. Granted, we didn't do much with the ball but we were quite good at moving it around. And even if LVG brought in quite a lot of players, most of them weren't particular big in terms of possession. So I think, the other posters statement is absolutely true: you don't need excessive amounts of time and money for it. Which doesnÄt mean, that excessive amounts of time and money will accelerate or improve this endeavour.
 
I just next summer ihe focuses on some of the key areas we need work on to play possesion football - keeper who can distribute, replacing Ronaldo with a CF who can fit in, RB who van play and a playmaking CM.
 
Stack said:
I havent been able to see many games this season so far. Whats the general feeling does ETG have us on the right path, can people see progress?
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It's probably too early to tell. Despite our spending we are still recovering from last seasons debacle and feel a tad broken. Definitely some good signs but also a lot of familiar problems.
 
Red-17 said:
Playing long balls and being more structured when we do decide to play out from the back are not mutually exclusive things.
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So, what is this structure that you are talking about? Tell me what you see, well, if you want to. I am interested in knowing what you see.

What I saw right now is not much difference to how we always played under Ole, Ralf regarding playing from the back.
 
NZT-One said:
What we can see for sure is that many people in here really want to see progress. I think, what the other poster mentioned was pretty fair, we are making more use of the ball, we seem to be not as afraid of having it and we are using space in a more organized way. We are still very open for fast attacks, we still often lack intensity. I think, he is moving us in the right direction. Though I guess, some would have hoped it to be a bit more "significant". But there are many possible and plausible reasons for it, be it the recruitment, be it the existing players or the sheer quantity of the challenge that is Make Manchester United great again.


You could just use us as an example when LVG took over. We went from whatever we were in Fergies later years and then under Moyes to an absolute possession hogger team. Granted, we didn't do much with the ball but we were quite good at moving it around. And even if LVG brought in quite a lot of players, most of them weren't particular big in terms of possession. So I think, the other posters statement is absolutely true: you don't need excessive amounts of time and money for it. Which doesnÄt mean, that excessive amounts of time and money will accelerate or improve this endeavour.
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The one thing under LVG which people tend to forget is that pressing had not become a major factor in the PL. Most teams regularly just always tried to maintain shape rather than press on the front foot. This meant our meaningless possession around our own penalty box or around the center circle was always unchallenged. However when we were pressed, we used to fold like a deck of cards. If this team also gets that much time and space, we will see meaningless possession from them too.

LVG wanted to help us keep possession but people forget that the meaningless possession was far away from the opponent penalty box and when pressing had not become a big factor yet. Today, LVG's method would be torn to shreds with the squad we had at that time.
 
Their left back couldn't cope with Antony's speed, he should've had us attack more on the right side. Won't complain about the subs since we didn't really have any option on the bench.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
I don’t really understand what your expectations are. We clearly are trying something different to what the previous 3 managers tried, it’s very early on and we have some major issues in the team. That said, against almost all the ‘lesser’ teams we’ve played we’ve had the lion’s share of the ball - take out City and we’ve had since 60% plus since Sociedad.

There are major problems with our central striker which is very obviously key for any team, we also don’t really have a keeper for this style and then I’d say it’s fair to say a number of starters probably aren’t old enough if we want to get to a place where we can boss games and win trophies.

This is heading the way of LVG’s first season where it was all about putting a structure in place and we tightened up at the back very quickly, the difference is ETH’s signings have been much more successful so far. Top four will be tough and a lot rests on Martial/getting a new striker in Jan in my opinion because I don’t think we can rely on Ronaldo anymore.
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This! Folks going on about our lack of possession football confuse me. We play possession football! We just can't put the ball in the net consistently. That's been an issue right back to the latter years of SAF. He temporarily solved it with RVP but since then its been a disaster! Tried Rooney as a 9, then Ibra, Lukaku, (over the hill) Ronaldo. I think we hung our hopes on Ronaldo covering until Greenwood became the one :nervous:
 
He’s already the best manager we’ve had post Fergie based on the fact that he’s not mentally unstable like LVG/Jose or a pushover like Moyes/Ole. Off the pitch he's going to make the players work harder and attempt to press and play possession football and I already love him for that. Team spirit and footballing chemistry should hopefully grow in time but we’ve also seen how fast things can deteriorate at this club once key players lose belief in the overall project. ETH seems like the kind of guy who’ll hopefully suffer no fools but he’s going to need to bring in or develop a few really good players or we will tread water for years to come.
 
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Someone said:
I'm happy with the progress, you can see it all over the pitch. I'm 100% sure though that in 2 years the squad won't be recognizable from what we have today. Even with all our spending you can tell this is a good but rather flawed squad.
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Yeah if those leeches loosen the pursestrings enough for him to properly build his own team not their idea of one instead
 
croadyman said:
Yeah if those leeches loosen the pursestrings enough for him to properly build his own team not their idea of one instead
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They did this summer.

More important than loosening purse strings is giving him a structure that helps the manager rather than hinders him. I have no confidence in Murtough and Fletcher in this regard.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
They did this summer.

More important than loosening purse strings is giving him a structure that helps the manager rather than hinders him. I have no confidence in Murtough and Fletcher in this regard.
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Oh yeah no doubt our structure is archaic and far too jobs for the boys orientated,unfortunately there are no signs whatsoever of that changing.
 
Andycoleno9 said:
Playing Ronaldo up front will be his funeral. Same as Maguire was Solskjaer's.
If he can't see that then that is a problem
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he's barely started him so what makes you think he can't see it?

we're short on players and have fixture congestion
 
Tarrou said:
he's barely started him so what makes you think he can't see it?

we're short on players and have fixture congestion
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Exactly! No idea why some of these posters are so obsessed with Ronaldo. Its obvious ETH only uses Ronaldo when needed and most of the time, he is on the bench.
 
Jericholyte2 said:
Perhaps, but we’re already starting to dominate games more and make chances more consistently. We need someone who can finish the chances that are being made.

The No.1 priority for Jan/summer must be a ST. We can then look at RB, CM, CB and possibly GK.
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The gap between Eriksen and the rest is huge. We badly need another midfielder, Fred, McT, are really not up for it
 
The only "worry" is that ETH has made Bruno his main man. We have not tried any other setup. That's surprising because I predicted Bruno to struggle massively before this season started, so I'm not really Surprised to see what's happening.

Other than that, clear progress. He has to somehow solve the striker issue, no idea how though.
 
I think we are beginning to see ten hag ball take shape, there is some encouraging signs. Good pressing, good passing more willingness to stay high.

Two major issues in the GK department and at CF though, De Gea has improved but still isn't at all suited to ten hag ball and Ronaldo has a negative impact on our chance creation and control with his demanding pass the ball to me all the time style.

If we can get Martial fit for a good spell that will help alot.

Would also love to see a fully fit V.D.B in Fred's position yesterday, think in this shape and style we might actually see the best of him.
 
Longshanks said:
I think we are beginning to see ten hag ball take shape, there is some encouraging signs. Good pressing, good passing more willingness to stay high.

Two major issues in the GK department and at CF though, De Gea has improved but still isn't at all suited to ten hag ball and Ronaldo has a negative impact on our chance creation and control with his demanding pass the ball to me all the time style.

If we can get Martial fit for a good spell that will help alot.

Would also love to see a fully fit V.D.B in Fred's position yesterday, think in this shape and style we might actually see the best of him.
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Newcastle pressed a lot more and a lot higher better than we did. Our passing continues to be questionable, we did not play through the midfield yesterday, plus there continues to be a lack of urgency going into games, If someone had told me after almost any performance this year, the manager was Ole I wouldn't bat an eyelid

Newcastle were missing key players and we were playing at home and still only in the second half did we look like we were a threat.
 
It's funny how people want manager to stamp his authority after 13 games. It seems they forgot Klopp's first few seasons or Pep's first season with city.
 
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