Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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I don't know what to believe, but I know what I hope. What I hope is that ten Hag can improve the performance of the squad not just by transfer business but also by improving the individual performances of severe underperformers of the last two seasons. Among them are Martial (remember him?), Rashford and Maguire. Had just those three alone performed at their known top levels there's no doubt in my mind we would have at least scraped top four this season. Top four isn't of course good enough, but it's better than where we are now.

Can ten Hag work magic on our underperformers? We shall see.
 
I don't know what to believe, but I know what I hope. What I hope is that ten Hag can improve the performance of the squad not just by transfer business but also by improving the individual performances of severe underperformers of the last two seasons. Among them are Martial (remember him?), Rashford and Maguire. Had just those three alone performed at their known top levels there's no doubt in my mind we would have at least scraped top four this season. Top four isn't of course good enough, but it's better than where we are now.

Can ten Hag work magic on our underperformers? We shall see.
Don’t forget Shaw too.
 
Don’t forget Shaw too.

Good point. These are the players I regard as very good footballer but who for whatever reasons have underperformed the last two seasons:

Martial
Rashford
Maguire
Shaw
Wan-Bissaka

That's a lot of underperformers. I'm not sure how much in weekly wages those five make together but I wouldn't be shocked if it's close to 1 million per week.
 
Good point. These are the players I regard as very good footballer but who for whatever reasons have underperformed the last two seasons:

Martial
Rashford
Maguire
Shaw
Wan-Bissaka

That's a lot of underperformers. I'm not sure how much in weekly wages those five make together but I wouldn't be shocked if it's close to 1 million per week.

Shaw played only one good season in his entire career. More like he returned to his normal this season.

Out of those, only Rashford I will consider an actual good player that has been underperforming for 2 years now.

But it's our management of Rashford that fecked him up. We inflated his ego so much and it was inevitable that it would backfire.
 
Shaw played only one good season in his entire career. More like he returned to his normal this season.

Out of those, only Rashford I will consider an actual good player that has been underperforming for 2 years now.

But it's our management of Rashford that fecked him up. We inflated his ego so much and it was inevitable that it would backfire.

Not even close to being true.
 
Good point. These are the players I regard as very good footballer but who for whatever reasons have underperformed the last two seasons:

Martial
Rashford
Maguire
Shaw
Wan-Bissaka

That's a lot of underperformers. I'm not sure how much in weekly wages those five make together but I wouldn't be shocked if it's close to 1 million per week.
They've underperformed because they're simply not as good as people think they are.

Won't bother going through the whole list but AWB shouldn't have been signed, I said it at the time and to think we paid £50m for the privilege is nothing short of an embarrassment.
 
Good point. These are the players I regard as very good footballer but who for whatever reasons have underperformed the last two seasons:

Martial
Rashford
Maguire
Shaw
Wan-Bissaka

That's a lot of underperformers. I'm not sure how much in weekly wages those five make together but I wouldn't be shocked if it's close to 1 million per week.
AWB is barely a footballer, let alone a good one.

Shaw is good once he decides to get in shape and works up his form, so about 20% of the time if we're lucky.

Rashford is basically a great example of how people mistake pace for good footballing ability and decision-making, especially since he was young.

Maguire... should really be a rugby player, he's awful technically.

Martial used to be good and a favourite of mine but I'm honestly not even sure about him any more.
 
I'm far too lazy to paste Ten Hag's head onto Stone Cold Steve Austin's body and have him come out at the Royal Rumble and Stunner our entire squad one by one. But hopefully someone can take that idea and run with it.

I'm thinking the video of when 'the real' Stone Cold came back before InVasion and wiped out the Alliance - arriving in the parking lot with a pool cue, smashing people backstage, then comes out to the ring jaw-jacking and then boom!

 
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Another journalist using the same exact words. Another person has been talking again.


"...some fear Erik ten Hag will not be strong enough to life club."

:lol:

Some players are not good enough to wear the shirt. Small brain bottlers.
 
Good point. These are the players I regard as very good footballer but who for whatever reasons have underperformed the last two seasons:

Martial
Rashford
Maguire
Shaw
Wan-Bissaka

That's a lot of underperformers. I'm not sure how much in weekly wages those five make together but I wouldn't be shocked if it's close to 1 million per week.

That list of players are 100% NEVER going to win the PL. Especially if they are on the same team.
They are just not at the level.
Maybe one of them might get lucky and stay and become part of something good at United but if they are all part of the ETH era then we are going nowhere at all.
 
I’m not sure whether this deserves it own thread so have posted it here, and apologies to all but there’s a significant amount of nominative determinism in this post.

But, how is this appointment different to the previous 3 managers we have appointed (I’ve excluded Ole and the caretakers here for reasons that will become apparent).

When City were lining up to appoint Pep, they spent two seasons appointing scouting staff, Directors and coaching staff that would facilitate and complement him coming in and changing the face of the playing side of the club. Player recruitment started to lean towards players that could play his kind of football as well as satisfying the current needs of Pellegrini. A DoF (Txixi) that knew what he wanted and how he operated was put in place week in advance to pave the way for him.

Pool did it differently, they had an idea of what they wanted, built a structure and appointed a manager that could deliver what they wanted. Juergen ended up being wildly more successful than they ever anticipated, but hey-ho it worked. There was nothing in Klopps Dortmund side that would suggest he’d end up being a world beater, but he is, and fair fecks to them.

What have we actually done? We’ve put bums on seats in positions we’ve been told we need to fill (DoF & Technical Director), we appointed a hipsters choice for an interim manager whose been an utter disaster and is now going to expand on his failure by imposing his questionable will upon the entire structure of the club. We have now appointed a manager whose style of play is completely at odds with the technical abilities of the squad we have previously assembled at great cost, and have told him there are limited funds and he will have to accommodate certain players who we have invested heavily in who we cannot shift.

How Is any of this different to the appointments of Van Gaal or Jose? Two managers with a very different ethos to the natural ethos of the club, both of whom had had some recent success and both of which were parachuted in with no prior preparation and the expectations they would wave a magic wand and fix all of our ills.

Currently it seems peoples optimism is based around some unquantified belief that EtH is some kind of messiah along the lines of Pep or Klopp. Pep was a well prepared move, planned in advance and executed with a limitless budget. Klopp was a lucky confluence of circumstances for a club that had been getting it wrong for 30+ years.

I hope this goes well, but I really have no real reason to believe it’s going to. Murtough and Fletcher have no experience whatsoever of building a club and developing a plying style separate to what is already in place. So we’re back to hoping the new manager has a magic wand to wave, a la Fergie, and that he’ll grab tha club by the scruff of its neck and mould it as per his vision.

Will Murtough and Fletcher impose a possession style of football on the club from youth to U23’s? Will our youth recruitment now be focused on getting those kinds of players on the books?

What happens if it doesn’t work with EtH and the whole thing turns into a depressingly sterile LvG possession based experience? Will we stick with tiki-taka? Is that what we are as a club now? Or will we embark on another wholesale change and restructure the club from top to bottom.

Ole may not have worked, but it was at least clear we were being true to some kind of identity that was familiar to the club and sat well with what we were set up to do. I’m happy for the club to change direction and feel we probably need a new direction, but I’d like to know we actually have a direction in mind and we’re not just going wherever the wind blows us.
LVG and Mourinhos ideas on football were getting dated.

Not sure what you mean with "recent successes", their glory days were well behind them.
 

It’s much easier to do this to young players in comparison to a level of players where players are getting crazy wages like ours especially if it comes from a new manager. Any manager needs to build up a reputation to do such a thing to top and senior players in PL. Sir Alex could do it to the senior players for example because he has built strong foundation within the club and already had the fear factor and gained respect from players and others. However, it will be interesting what approach he’s going to use when he comes here.
 
It’s much easier to do this to young players in comparison to a level of players where players are getting crazy wages like ours especially if it comes from a new manager. Any manager needs to build up a reputation to do such a thing to top and senior players in PL. Sir Alex could do it to the senior players for example because he has built strong foundation within the club and already had the fear factor and gained respect from players and others. However, it will be interesting what approach he’s going to use when he comes here.
No. A manager can do it as long as he's backed by the club. Look at Auba.
 
Ralf is very key with this aspect…if he stays and is given a position working with Ten Hag then the process of getting rid of the players with poor attitudes started 6 months ago.

If Ralf goes and Ten Hag gives the players their 7th clean start, then the process will be back at zero.
 
Good point, well made. There is still a very good player lurking there. In fact, you could probably say the same about several of our underperformed players. I wonder whether these would have de lined so dramatically if say, Klopp or Pep were in charge
Exactly. Its as if some just want to give up on most of the team.
 
It’s much easier to do this to young players in comparison to a level of players where players are getting crazy wages like ours especially if it comes from a new manager. Any manager needs to build up a reputation to do such a thing to top and senior players in PL. Sir Alex could do it to the senior players for example because he has built strong foundation within the club and already had the fear factor and gained respect from players and others. However, it will be interesting what approach he’s going to use when he comes here.

The Hag is as brilliant man manager as well as tactician. Nearly all players he’s coached have utmost respect for him and the ones who don’t he probably kicked out of the club. Do not underestimate The Hag.
 
No. A manager can do it as long as he's backed by the club. Look at Auba.
I was talking about the way how he talked in that video not how he kicked the player out. The problem if new manager treat player with strong connection in dressing room like that is dangerous because the player could become a virus. That’s why Mourinho called Pogba a virus since Pogba is likeable in dressing room so if you piss him off then you piss off his ‘’mates’’ in dressing room. But if you have someone like sir Alex ferguson status, no one can against him.
 
That list of players are 100% NEVER going to win the PL. Especially if they are on the same team.
They are just not at the level.
Maybe one of them might get lucky and stay and become part of something good at United but if they are all part of the ETH era then we are going nowhere at all.

I have grave doubts about Martial ever reaching his potential, but it cannot be denied that his potential was ridiculous.

Don't give up on Rashford just yet.

Maguire needs a new club IMO. The pressure of OT is too much for him to bear. Playing for England is a walk in the park compared to playing for United.

Shaw can return to stellar form...if he wants to.

Wan-Bissaka is very likely one of those footballers who had a great moment but the moment was fleeting.
 
Exactly. Its as if some just want to give up on most of the team.
Well yeah some people just want to spend spend spend but there's credibility to the notion this team is a mismatch for that kind of football. I mean AWB? Really? What kind of magic are people expecting there? Let's start drafting his sack letter if this is even one of the objectives. He's going to have it hard enough with the players who actually have technical ability without throwing in certain names who have never shown the ability, mentality or intelligence to play tiki taka..
 
Well yeah some people just want to spend spend spend but there's credibility to the notion this team is a mismatch for that kind of football. I mean AWB? Really? What kind of magic are people expecting there? Let's start drafting his sack letter if this is even one of the objectives. He's going to have it hard enough with the players who actually have technical ability without throwing in certain names who have never shown the ability, mentality or intelligence to play tiki taka..
Of course some will just have to go but not all or 10 of them or something. For instance I think Rashford can find form or himself or Bruno can find his game back.
 
I want him to boot out the sulkers and misfits first and foremost than triers. Secondly I would love him if he signs two new starting fullbacks. Would love him even more if they are timber at RB and cucurella at LB. I don’t want to see anymore of Shaw, AWB, Dalot etc. Absolute wasters all of them.
 
Of course some will just have to go but not all or 10 of them or something. For instance I think Rashford can find form or himself or Bruno can find his game back.
I think those two especially lead the most awkward fits. No one will fault ETH when AWB looks like a three legged giraffe in his system. It's the talented players who have been programmed to play one way who will get him the most criticism. An untechnical playmaker with a fetish for long balls is like the antithesis of vertical tiki taka. With regards to the former this could go really well or really ugly. I don't see Rashford becoming a whizz in 3months either.
 
I’m not sure whether this deserves it own thread so have posted it here, and apologies to all but there’s a significant amount of nominative determinism in this post.

But, how is this appointment different to the previous 3 managers we have appointed (I’ve excluded Ole and the caretakers here for reasons that will become apparent).

When City were lining up to appoint Pep, they spent two seasons appointing scouting staff, Directors and coaching staff that would facilitate and complement him coming in and changing the face of the playing side of the club. Player recruitment started to lean towards players that could play his kind of football as well as satisfying the current needs of Pellegrini. A DoF (Txixi) that knew what he wanted and how he operated was put in place week in advance to pave the way for him.

Pool did it differently, they had an idea of what they wanted, built a structure and appointed a manager that could deliver what they wanted. Juergen ended up being wildly more successful than they ever anticipated, but hey-ho it worked. There was nothing in Klopps Dortmund side that would suggest he’d end up being a world beater, but he is, and fair fecks to them.

What have we actually done? We’ve put bums on seats in positions we’ve been told we need to fill (DoF & Technical Director), we appointed a hipsters choice for an interim manager whose been an utter disaster and is now going to expand on his failure by imposing his questionable will upon the entire structure of the club. We have now appointed a manager whose style of play is completely at odds with the technical abilities of the squad we have previously assembled at great cost, and have told him there are limited funds and he will have to accommodate certain players who we have invested heavily in who we cannot shift.

How Is any of this different to the appointments of Van Gaal or Jose? Two managers with a very different ethos to the natural ethos of the club, both of whom had had some recent success and both of which were parachuted in with no prior preparation and the expectations they would wave a magic wand and fix all of our ills.

Currently it seems peoples optimism is based around some unquantified belief that EtH is some kind of messiah along the lines of Pep or Klopp. Pep was a well prepared move, planned in advance and executed with a limitless budget. Klopp was a lucky confluence of circumstances for a club that had been getting it wrong for 30+ years.

I hope this goes well, but I really have no real reason to believe it’s going to. Murtough and Fletcher have no experience whatsoever of building a club and developing a plying style separate to what is already in place. So we’re back to hoping the new manager has a magic wand to wave, a la Fergie, and that he’ll grab tha club by the scruff of its neck and mould it as per his vision.

Will Murtough and Fletcher impose a possession style of football on the club from youth to U23’s? Will our youth recruitment now be focused on getting those kinds of players on the books?

What happens if it doesn’t work with EtH and the whole thing turns into a depressingly sterile LvG possession based experience? Will we stick with tiki-taka? Is that what we are as a club now? Or will we embark on another wholesale change and restructure the club from top to bottom.

Ole may not have worked, but it was at least clear we were being true to some kind of identity that was familiar to the club and sat well with what we were set up to do. I’m happy for the club to change direction and feel we probably need a new direction, but I’d like to know we actually have a direction in mind and we’re not just going wherever the wind blows us.
Well after reading that I may as well go jump off a bridge
 
AWB is barely a footballer, let alone a good one.

Shaw is good once he decides to get in shape and works up his form, so about 20% of the time if we're lucky.

Rashford is basically a great example of how people mistake pace for good footballing ability and decision-making, especially since he was young.

Maguire... should really be a rugby player, he's awful technically.

Martial used to be good and a favourite of mine but I'm honestly not even sure about him any more.

A bit harsh on AWB, although there's no denying we did not spend 50m wisely.
Shaw is a hard one to judge. Brilliant at times, then invisible.
Rashford is more than a pace merchant, but there's no question that his form has been dire since his back injury, despite the surgery.
Maguire has put in solid performances, though not in living memory.
Martial is the hard one to figure out. Abundant talent, but has anyone had less of a heart for the game than Anthony Martial?
 
It’s much easier to do this to young players in comparison to a level of players where players are getting crazy wages like ours especially if it comes from a new manager. Any manager needs to build up a reputation to do such a thing to top and senior players in PL. Sir Alex could do it to the senior players for example because he has built strong foundation within the club and already had the fear factor and gained respect from players and others. However, it will be interesting what approach he’s going to use when he comes here.
If you’re a player who can’t take good, hard coaching, then you can gladly be shown the door as far as I’m concerned.
 
Ralf is very key with this aspect…if he stays and is given a position working with Ten Hag then the process of getting rid of the players with poor attitudes started 6 months ago.

If Ralf goes and Ten Hag gives the players their 7th clean start, then the process will be back at zero.

Agreed.
 
There was a moment in the game today where Laporte brought it forward, Zinchenko made an outside to in run and Laporte hit him between the lines with a high pass that Zinchenko took down neatly and started an attack and I was struggling to think of what combo of players we could plausibly put out that could do that. Shaw or Lindelof as the passer maybe. Shaw too lazy and stocky to be the receiver of the pass. Potentially Lindelof-Dalot or Shaw to Alvaro I guess? Depressing!
 
There was a moment in the game today where Laporte brought it forward, Zinchenko made an outside to in run and Laporte hit him between the lines with a high pass that Zinchenko took down neatly and started an attack and I was struggling to think of what combo of players we could plausibly put out that could do that. Shaw or Lindelof as the passer maybe. Shaw too lazy and stocky to be the receiver of the pass. Potentially Lindelof-Dalot or Shaw to Alvaro I guess? Depressing!
This one can be put into the how sad to watch others thread, at least leave a glimmer of hope and optimism for this thread, right?

Right?

Right?

:(
 
There was a moment in the game today where Laporte brought it forward, Zinchenko made an outside to in run and Laporte hit him between the lines with a high pass that Zinchenko took down neatly and started an attack and I was struggling to think of what combo of players we could plausibly put out that could do that. Shaw or Lindelof as the passer maybe. Shaw too lazy and stocky to be the receiver of the pass. Potentially Lindelof-Dalot or Shaw to Alvaro I guess? Depressing!
Answer is nobody. Nobody has brains or technique
 
Good point. These are the players I regard as very good footballer but who for whatever reasons have underperformed the last two seasons:

Martial
Rashford
Maguire
Shaw
Wan-Bissaka

That's a lot of underperformers. I'm not sure how much in weekly wages those five make together but I wouldn't be shocked if it's close to 1 million per week.
True, I think out of them 5 there’s only 1 maybe 2 ten Hag would look to sell and that’s martial and AWB. I think Maguire is the type of defender ten Hag likes, ball playing defenders, only thing that might go against him is his pace because ten Hag will want a high line. As for AWB I don’t think he’s attacking enough to fit in ten Hags system, he’ll want a more attack minded full back who’ll be useful in the attacking play.
 
I’m not sure whether this deserves it own thread so have posted it here, and apologies to all but there’s a significant amount of nominative determinism in this post.

But, how is this appointment different to the previous 3 managers we have appointed (I’ve excluded Ole and the caretakers here for reasons that will become apparent).

When City were lining up to appoint Pep, they spent two seasons appointing scouting staff, Directors and coaching staff that would facilitate and complement him coming in and changing the face of the playing side of the club. Player recruitment started to lean towards players that could play his kind of football as well as satisfying the current needs of Pellegrini. A DoF (Txixi) that knew what he wanted and how he operated was put in place week in advance to pave the way for him.

Pool did it differently, they had an idea of what they wanted, built a structure and appointed a manager that could deliver what they wanted. Juergen ended up being wildly more successful than they ever anticipated, but hey-ho it worked. There was nothing in Klopps Dortmund side that would suggest he’d end up being a world beater, but he is, and fair fecks to them.

What have we actually done? We’ve put bums on seats in positions we’ve been told we need to fill (DoF & Technical Director), we appointed a hipsters choice for an interim manager whose been an utter disaster and is now going to expand on his failure by imposing his questionable will upon the entire structure of the club. We have now appointed a manager whose style of play is completely at odds with the technical abilities of the squad we have previously assembled at great cost, and have told him there are limited funds and he will have to accommodate certain players who we have invested heavily in who we cannot shift.

How Is any of this different to the appointments of Van Gaal or Jose? Two managers with a very different ethos to the natural ethos of the club, both of whom had had some recent success and both of which were parachuted in with no prior preparation and the expectations they would wave a magic wand and fix all of our ills.

Currently it seems peoples optimism is based around some unquantified belief that EtH is some kind of messiah along the lines of Pep or Klopp. Pep was a well prepared move, planned in advance and executed with a limitless budget. Klopp was a lucky confluence of circumstances for a club that had been getting it wrong for 30+ years.

I hope this goes well, but I really have no real reason to believe it’s going to. Murtough and Fletcher have no experience whatsoever of building a club and developing a plying style separate to what is already in place. So we’re back to hoping the new manager has a magic wand to wave, a la Fergie, and that he’ll grab tha club by the scruff of its neck and mould it as per his vision.

Will Murtough and Fletcher impose a possession style of football on the club from youth to U23’s? Will our youth recruitment now be focused on getting those kinds of players on the books?

What happens if it doesn’t work with EtH and the whole thing turns into a depressingly sterile LvG possession based experience? Will we stick with tiki-taka? Is that what we are as a club now? Or will we embark on another wholesale change and restructure the club from top to bottom.

Ole may not have worked, but it was at least clear we were being true to some kind of identity that was familiar to the club and sat well with what we were set up to do. I’m happy for the club to change direction and feel we probably need a new direction, but I’d like to know we actually have a direction in mind and we’re not just going wherever the wind blows us.
Totally spot on. Truth is, we are already many miles behind our rivals, and we have been a disaster in developing any form of sustainable team structure over past 8 years. For those who think ETH is some kind of football messiah, and 150m signings would be enough to get us to evolve into some kind of good team, are totally clueless and deluded I am afraid. Its going to take lots more than that.

We now have a team full of individualists who are only familiar with counter attack approach, and we have to ask them to play tiki taka possession football next season, this could be another disaster for us.
 
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Totally spot on. Truth is, we are already many miles behind our rivals, and we have been a disaster in developing any form of sustainable team structure over past 8 years. For those who think ETH is some kind of football messiah, and 150m signings would be enough to get us to evolve into some kind of good team, are totally clueless and deluded I am afraid. Its going to take lots more than that.

We now have a team full of individualists who are only familiar with counter attack approach, and we have to ask them to play tiki taka possession football next season, this could be another disaster for us.
Who thinks ETH is a messiah?
 
I'd like to think everyone accepts that next season could easily be a disaster, given the reasons outlined in posts above. I think we all just need to hope that the club and manager all pull in the same direction and can change the squad to suit the managers needs over the next 2 years. £200m investment in the squad won't be anywhere near enough.
 
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