Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

Status
Not open for further replies.
People are saying that we cannot change multiple players within a year and be successful. Celtic started the Old Firm game in January with 9 players who were not at the club last season and are currently top of the Scottish league. If they win at the weekend they will sow the league up.
I fully expect lots of "farmers league doesn't count" posts in reply but the principal is very similar, only the price tags change. And bear in mind one of our multi million pounds hot prospects Amad Diallo is struggling to make an impact in the scottish farmers league.
If the will is there for radical change it can happen quickly when required, look at the job Patrick Viera has done at Palace with a large turnover of players.

It totally makes it different in a traditional 2 horse league though, you must see that?

We have to get past 2 teams at their absolute peak, a Chelsea giant, and then teams that may or may not turn it on for the occasional year like the North London chuckle brothers.
 
People are saying that we cannot change multiple players within a year and be successful. Celtic started the Old Firm game in January with 9 players who were not at the club last season and are currently top of the Scottish league. If they win at the weekend they will sow the league up.
I fully expect lots of "farmers league doesn't count" posts in reply but the principal is very similar, only the price tags change. And bear in mind one of our multi million pounds hot prospects Amad Diallo is struggling to make an impact in the scottish farmers league.
If the will is there for radical change it can happen quickly when required, look at the job Patrick Viera has done at Palace with a large turnover of players.
The likelihood of a large number of signings hitting the ground running in the PL is slim, particularly if they are coming from outside the PL. With our track record of scouting and recruitment, even slimmer.

It's not impossible but we'd have to get summer recruitment spot on.
 
It really depends how the season goes, but usually there is a big gap between top 2 and the rest or first and the rest(like last season). Title challenge is obviously out of the question, cup victory I wouldn't say it's impossible, but 4th needs to be our main target.
Any finish bellow 4th would be a disappointment regardless of playing style. I mean what playing style would we adopt and be happy with if we finish 5th or 6th ?
I wouldn't say we'd be 'happy' with a 5th or 6th finish, but if there are significant good signs with a real reason to believe that things will continue to improve I think we should be ok with it. Klopp's first season is the obvious comparison there, as they finished 8th but everything was pointing to them being on the way up.
 
After a certain event 20 years ago, I’d have thought Fergie would have had a disdain of all Irish horse breeders and never wanted to work with them again :lol:

Also I laughed at how the first 15 seconds of that video he’s visibly disgusted that he’s been pushed into doing media stuff. I guess people never change even if retirement. That fecking death stare at 7-8 second mark is great like ‘yer deed to me ye wee bastard’ :p
 
Nope and he didnt look very happy talking about it either.
Thought that was a great comment from him actually - I think he’s alluding to the real problems at the club. If ten Hag has got the board to agree that it’s my way or no way then that’s a step in the right direction.
 
Nope and he didnt look very happy talking about it either.
Thought that was a great comment from him actually - I think he’s alluding to the real problems at the club. If ten Hag has got the board to agree that it’s my way or no way then that’s a step in the right direction.

Christ, lads, he’s in his 80s and was put on the spot. It took him about ten seconds to realise who Erik even was. Stop reading too much into it.
 
I’m not sure whether this deserves it own thread so have posted it here, and apologies to all but there’s a significant amount of nominative determinism in this post.

But, how is this appointment different to the previous 3 managers we have appointed (I’ve excluded Ole and the caretakers here for reasons that will become apparent).

When City were lining up to appoint Pep, they spent two seasons appointing scouting staff, Directors and coaching staff that would facilitate and complement him coming in and changing the face of the playing side of the club. Player recruitment started to lean towards players that could play his kind of football as well as satisfying the current needs of Pellegrini. A DoF (Txixi) that knew what he wanted and how he operated was put in place week in advance to pave the way for him.

Pool did it differently, they had an idea of what they wanted, built a structure and appointed a manager that could deliver what they wanted. Juergen ended up being wildly more successful than they ever anticipated, but hey-ho it worked. There was nothing in Klopps Dortmund side that would suggest he’d end up being a world beater, but he is, and fair fecks to them.

What have we actually done? We’ve put bums on seats in positions we’ve been told we need to fill (DoF & Technical Director), we appointed a hipsters choice for an interim manager whose been an utter disaster and is now going to expand on his failure by imposing his questionable will upon the entire structure of the club. We have now appointed a manager whose style of play is completely at odds with the technical abilities of the squad we have previously assembled at great cost, and have told him there are limited funds and he will have to accommodate certain players who we have invested heavily in who we cannot shift.

How Is any of this different to the appointments of Van Gaal or Jose? Two managers with a very different ethos to the natural ethos of the club, both of whom had had some recent success and both of which were parachuted in with no prior preparation and the expectations they would wave a magic wand and fix all of our ills.

Currently it seems peoples optimism is based around some unquantified belief that EtH is some kind of messiah along the lines of Pep or Klopp. Pep was a well prepared move, planned in advance and executed with a limitless budget. Klopp was a lucky confluence of circumstances for a club that had been getting it wrong for 30+ years.

I hope this goes well, but I really have no real reason to believe it’s going to. Murtough and Fletcher have no experience whatsoever of building a club and developing a plying style separate to what is already in place. So we’re back to hoping the new manager has a magic wand to wave, a la Fergie, and that he’ll grab tha club by the scruff of its neck and mould it as per his vision.

Will Murtough and Fletcher impose a possession style of football on the club from youth to U23’s? Will our youth recruitment now be focused on getting those kinds of players on the books?

What happens if it doesn’t work with EtH and the whole thing turns into a depressingly sterile LvG possession based experience? Will we stick with tiki-taka? Is that what we are as a club now? Or will we embark on another wholesale change and restructure the club from top to bottom.

Ole may not have worked, but it was at least clear we were being true to some kind of identity that was familiar to the club and sat well with what we were set up to do. I’m happy for the club to change direction and feel we probably need a new direction, but I’d like to know we actually have a direction in mind and we’re not just going wherever the wind blows us.
Your username and this post goes so well. BUZZKILLINGTON.

If you can’t see what we have done differently since sacking Ole all the way through appointing Ten Hag then I don’t know what to say. I’m not saying it’s going to be great overnight but this negativity won’t help either.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Cheimoon
"To get in control" that does not sound good, at all.
It sounds good to me. Ferguson will have forgotten more about management than most people learn in a lifetime. He knows it’s all about control. ETH is going to have to exert his authority on this squad, we all know how bad the culture is there currently so we know how difficult that is likely to be but having someone like Sir Alex in the background can only help him gain that authority - I’ve got zero doubt that he will be quick to share his opinion that ETH needs total backing over the players. Any that question his authority should be out
 
Not really. Edson Alvarez and Gravenberch. Alvarez being a bit more defensive.

Yeah I'd say neither really qualify from the 5 or 6 Ajax games I've seen. Alvarez shields the defence not unlike a Fabinho/N'Didi type and Gravenberch looks to dribble and create from the left-center of what is often a midfield diamond with Mazraoui coming from RB to a sort of RCM role with Antony super-widest stretching the touchline, and Berghuis as sort of a #10.

Blind and Timber do a lot of passing in the buildup, also in a sort of diamond with Lisandro at the base and Edson at the top of it. Mazraoui has 2 roles basically, RB and RCM and switches between both, sort of like Alexander-Arnold does, but they don't play someone like Henderson to cover him, Timber just sort of also does 2 roles (RCB and RB) depending on the phase of play.

And they move the ball forward quite often by getting it out wide to Antony, who is happy to come deep and beat his man at the half-way line to start attacks against a team sitting deeper.
 
"To get in control" that does not sound good, at all.
Why?
Its just a sentence, no point in making huge conclusions from that.

Anyway looking good our Fergie. Not having listening as much as when he was our manager I barely understand him again. :D
 


Unpopular opinion, but some here were/are dwelling on the idea that once Pep and Klopp leave the league, it would become okay again to rise to the top and run for titles - that's exactly opposite to what I want. I want Klopp and Pep to have their teams on the absolute top level and I want us with ETH to rise beside them with our own style and beliefs and fecking snatch that title out of their hands.
 
Unpopular opinion, but some here were/are dwelling on the idea that once Pep and Klopp leave the league, it would become okay again to rise to the top and run for titles - that's exactly opposite to what I want. I want Klopp and Pep to have their teams on the absolute top level and I want us with ETH to rise beside them with our own style and beliefs and fecking snatch that title out of their hands.
Not to mention they might be replaced by equally good managers.
 
Unpopular opinion, but some here were/are dwelling on the idea that once Pep and Klopp leave the league, it would become okay again to rise to the top and run for titles - that's exactly opposite to what I want. I want Klopp and Pep to have their teams on the absolute top level and I want us with ETH to rise beside them with our own style and beliefs and fecking snatch that title out of their hands.
It's not going to happen I don't think - not for both teams at least. We'll take our time to improve and by then, I can see them both dropping off a level or three. City can probably sustain being at a really high level given their wealth but I can see Liverpool dropping a fair bit. I mean, they could continue being the best sides around, but by then time we get our act together (whether under ETH or someone else), the landscape will probably be different. Hopefully Liverpool haven't pulled away from us when it comes to PL titles.
 
Who even knows if Klopp and Guardiola might just naturally regress over time or just someone better comes along? I remember thinking back in 2006 that Jose Mourinho’s Chelsea was an unstoppable force and would dominate football, especially when they obtained Shevchenko and Ballack back then.

New ways of playing are introduced. Other teams are hungrier. New players and managers enter the fray, and suddenly Klopp Liverpool and Guardiola City look dated and over the hill. Their players are then the ones who get spanked by the usually younger, hungrier team on the way up. I’ve seen United been both the tired, old warhorse and the energetic, young stallion in those situations.

Cycles in football and all that.
 
Honestly people are overthinkig this, i doubt Fergie follows football that much anymore , especially after his heart attack.
He just gave the most appropriate answer he could think off, get in control (what every manager must do) that's it really.
 
Unpopular opinion, but some here were/are dwelling on the idea that once Pep and Klopp leave the league, it would become okay again to rise to the top and run for titles - that's exactly opposite to what I want. I want Klopp and Pep to have their teams on the absolute top level and I want us with ETH to rise beside them with our own style and beliefs and fecking snatch that title out of their hands.
Absolutely, that victory would be sweeter, If it takes 2 years, 3 years to arrive at that level, I am willing to wait. We should keep showing continuous progress and then win the title whilst Pep and Klopp being in the league. I want us to rise back up properly this time
 
No shit but who's going to tell that to some of our deluded fans who think our players need proper motivation before they turn into world beaters.
We have some players that just need good coaching to get them back to a good level. Sancho, Bruno (if made to stick to a game plan would be a very good player), Rashford (isn’t as shit as he is now, he can again be very good), Shaw (how good he was last season, he can be again), Varane, Fred, VDB.
 
I want ten Hag to come in and make brave decisions, do whatever it takes to take us back to the top. I want us to win the league while klopp and guardiola are still in the league though. Like fergie knocked Liverpool of there perch, I want ten Hag to come in and storm the premier league, make us compete and begin a new 3 way rivalry… ten Hag vs klopp vs guardiola. That would make a very interesting season.
 
We have some players that just need good coaching to get them back to a good level. Sancho, Bruno (if made to stick to a game plan would be a very good player), Rashford (isn’t as shit as he is now, he can again be very good), Shaw (how good he was last season, he can be again), Varane, Fred, VDB.

yeah agree with this

we don’t need them to be world beaters we just need them to return to their previous level

If ETH can get three or four guys currently giving 5/6 out of 10 performances back to 7/8 out of 10, that will be a great result

add in 3/4 new signings, and one or two from the academy, and we’re heading in the right direction
 
I'd just like to see obvious signs of a move in the right direction next season.
This.

All this we want to win while Klopp or Pep are there is wishful thinking. We have ALOT of slow progress to make to get to an excellent level let alone theirs.
 
Unpopular opinion, but some here were/are dwelling on the idea that once Pep and Klopp leave the league, it would become okay again to rise to the top and run for titles - that's exactly opposite to what I want. I want Klopp and Pep to have their teams on the absolute top level and I want us with ETH to rise beside them with our own style and beliefs and fecking snatch that title out of their hands.
True, if we get on their level we’ll be competing for CLs which is what every United fan wants deep down.
 
I wonder if we'll force players on him. I'm fairly sure the club won't let the starting youth record slide so we'll need at least one in the team.

None of them are particularly great right now is the issue.
 
I wonder if we'll force players on him. I'm fairly sure the club won't let the starting youth record slide so we'll need at least one in the team.

None of them are particularly great right now is the issue.
I dont see this happening.

We are in a new era, so we really cannot compare to how things were from Ferguson to November 2021. New CEO, Director of Football, Head of Analytics, new recruitment head is pending too. Structurally there has been a radical change in every role above the manager (bar Matt Judge I guess, but I don't think he has influence outside of negotiating the deals he's told to work on). So what ETH will / will not be lumbered with by way of obligation for xyz is up in the air.

Given the moves we've made, I strongly doubt there will be a push on him to play certain players.
 
If we can get 5/6 players in who hit the ground running, and get the others playing well every game. Then I would expect a top 4 finish. Most fans will expect this anyway.
 
The only thing I'm expecting next season is a defined style of play.

That's the only thing I want to see after 10 years of BS football. Lets develop this one first.
 
Does anyone know of any books on Mr Hag that I might be able to get my teeth into?

It's Friday night and I'm trying to excite myself.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.