Give it to whoever is playing on the day who deserves it most. Maybe a new leader will emerge this year in Maguire's absence.
And besides, who is the vice captain these days? Do we even have one?
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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Give it to whoever is playing on the day who deserves it most. Maybe a new leader will emerge this year in Maguire's absence.
And besides, who is the vice captain these days? Do we even have one?
As a United fan for over 20 years and first time commenting this season, things are really looking bleak. The embarrassing start to the season will really put off players we are trying to sign. Once again we go into the season without being prepared and will have to resort to desperate tactics towards the end. Why do we never learn!
Regards to ten hag. I really think spending 55m on martinez was a huge mistake. Firstly, it wasn't a position that was in desperate need of strengthening. Secondly, just look at his physicality and height. He will be targeted, bullied, and taken advantage of. Its still early, but teams would have seen that yesterday. Maybe it is worth putting him in midfield as it seems he has a good pass.
Ten hag needs to stick to the basics. We don't have the gk with the necessary skills to play from the back. De gae cannot be coached. His passing and distribution has always been a joke. Constantly kicking the ball out of play.
Ronaldo was typically looking selfish yesterday. Taking pot shots from 30 yards. Looking for freekicks when they weren't etc. So frustrating. Bruno is so off it as well. Sancho and rashford both ineffective. I won't talk about fred and mctom as they're not worth the energy typing.
I don't know where the next win will come from. Opposition teams and fans sense huge mental weakness and glaring holes everywhere. It's going to be brutal and ten hag has his work cut out. Signing martinez I believe is a terrible start. Money once again wasted.
Regards to ten hag. I really think spending 55m on martinez was a huge mistake. Firstly, it wasn't a position that was in desperate need of strengthening. Secondly, just look at his physicality and height. He will be targeted, bullied, and taken advantage of. Its still early, but teams would have seen that yesterday. Maybe it is worth putting him in midfield as it seems he has a good pass.
Ten hag needs to stick to the basics. We don't have the gk with the necessary skills to play from the back. De gae cannot be coached. His passing and distribution has always been a joke. Constantly kicking the ball out of play.
Ronaldo was typically looking selfish yesterday. Taking pot shots from 30 yards. Looking for freekicks when they weren't etc. So frustrating. Bruno is so off it as well. Sancho and rashford both ineffective. I won't talk about fred and mctom as they're not worth the energy typing.
I don't know where the next win will come from. Opposition teams and fans sense huge mental weakness and glaring holes everywhere. It's going to be brutal and ten hag has his work cut out. Signing martinez I believe is a terrible start. Money once again wasted.
We will be in a relegation battle this season. That is my prediction based on how we ended last season, how we started this season and based on our transfer dealings. It is not just two games. Of course we will have a better data set in October but I cannot see any improvements despite a full preseason. De Jong and a striker would change the picture.
It’s obviously been a real eye opener for Ten Hag. Firstly most of the smaller teams in the Premier League are well organised and generally coached well. Secondly, he probably isn’t used to working during the week on tactics and a game plan only for his team to throw it out the window once they enter the field of play. His job now is to quickly get to grips with who he can trust and who he can’t.
He must stop the team leaking stupid goals and so the defence is by far the biggest issue at the moment. He bought Martinez knowing he has sometimes played as holding midfielder, until he gets reinforcements, I think he should go with something like:-
Heaton
Laird Varanne MaGuire Malacia
McT Martinez
Sancho Eriksen Rashford
Ronaldo
DDG has had a poor couple of games and his confidence must be shot.
Dalot simply not good enough
Shaw too slow of body and mind.
Fernandez just too much of a luxury.
He must stop the team leaking stupid goals and so the defence is by far the biggest issue at the moment. He bought Martinez knowing he has sometimes played as holding midfielder, until he gets reinforcements, I think he should go with something like:-
Heaton
Laird Varanne MaGuire Malacia
McT Martinez
Sancho Eriksen Rashford
Ronaldo
DDG has had a poor couple of games and his confidence must be shot.
Dalot simply not good enough
Shaw too slow of body and mind.
Fernandez just too much of a luxury.
Ten Hag is complicit in this. He refused to listen to Ralf just to waste 3 months to arrive to the same conclusion. Seeing as how Murtough is completely useless, it's on Ten Hag to run the transfer window. So far it has been an abject failure. He talks about the right players but which of the players he has gotten so far are right? Eriksen and Bruno can't play on the same pitch together. Eriksen is a false 9 one week, then the next is a DM or something? How is this a "right player"? Martinez may or may not be suited to the PL, but even if he is we didn't need a 7th CB. Malacia is his only decent purchase. He wasted 3 months chasing De Jong. Then he is looking into Arnautovic, Rabiot, and Gakpo. In what universe are they "right players"?
The right players were as follows: DM, CM, CF, RW, RB, GK. There were plenty available in the beginning of the summer for most of these positions. Neither of them were signed. Usually it's the job of the DoF to know these things but the this is not happening for obvious reason. I'm starting to think I was wrong about Ten Hag. The results on the pitch don't really play into this, but rather his lack of plan other that "De Jong or bust". I mean, how the hell could anyone think this squad is good? It's trash and that's obvious to everyone who has spent a little bit of time watching them. Did he seriously come in completely blind or something? Even if De Jong joins it would change very little. To think otherwise is delusional. We still have a dysfunctional backline. No DM. Dreadful situation going forward.
The black dots are piling on now. He didn't do his due diligence and overestimated the squad. He has failed to recognize the problems and identify the correct players to bring in. He has severely underestimated the league. He deserves to get the whole season at least, but if this carries on until next summer, well...
The right players were as follows: DM, CM, CF, RW, RB, GK. There were plenty available in the beginning of the summer for most of these positions. Neither of them were signed. Usually it's the job of the DoF to know these things but the this is not happening for obvious reason. I'm starting to think I was wrong about Ten Hag. The results on the pitch don't really play into this, but rather his lack of plan other that "De Jong or bust". I mean, how the hell could anyone think this squad is good? It's trash and that's obvious to everyone who has spent a little bit of time watching them. Did he seriously come in completely blind or something? Even if De Jong joins it would change very little. To think otherwise is delusional. We still have a dysfunctional backline. No DM. Dreadful situation going forward.
The black dots are piling on now. He didn't do his due diligence and overestimated the squad. He has failed to recognize the problems and identify the correct players to bring in. He has severely underestimated the league. He deserves to get the whole season at least, but if this carries on until next summer, well...
Spot on unfortunately.
Has he tried switching "Manchester United FC" off, and switching it back on again?
very well said. He still has my full backing and will for the rest of the season but I can’t stick my head in the sand and defend him no matter what
I keep seeing people saying Ralf was ignored - ETH and him did speak but ETH also said he wanted to make his own mind up, which is fair. It’s game 2, the truth about players is laid bare before him, from now I want to see him make strong decisions. Drop any underperformers, get some genuine competition going in training, we will give him oodles of patience if we see him trying to fix things and not just starting the usual crowd. Dropping Bruno immediately buys him a year for me, get that wastrel out of the team even if just for a week.
Or ETH said there is no one else he thinks has the same profile? And Frenkie told him he will come to united?
Takes two hands to clap
Every manager needs time.
This is on players and culture of the club. That have to change.
This is on players and culture of the club. That have to change.
We all discussed that he will need patience. Seems for some, thats already out of the window.
We emoloyed a coach with a very very specific way of playing and told him implement his style without the tools to do so.
This man needs time.
We emoloyed a coach with a very very specific way of playing and told him implement his style without the tools to do so.
This man needs time.
I understand the pessimism and you might be right.
My reading of the situation is that ETH is so dissatisfied with the squad that he has not worked out the best approach for getting results with the current players. They are so bad, especially in midfield and we are so short of viable options up front that ETH is banking on a few more signings before settling on a formation, strategy / style of play. Probably he feels we cannot play the way he wants to with the players we have.
It’s not good. Perhaps he should have set up more pragmatically to just get a couple of points on the board or a clean sheet.
But I do think he will solve the problems he has once he knows exactly what his squad will be. Even if we don’t get anyone decent in, I think he will then make the difficult decisions to adapt his blueprint in order to get the best out of the squad.
All that said, it has been a pretty terrible start for him.
That’s assuming it comes back on
This set of players will bring any manager down. They won’t even do the basics and run it’s a complete disgrace.
This isn’t just a run of form either it’s been like this for a long time, at what point can we feck them all of to the bench and start giving the youth a chance? I bet we don’t lose that game if Garnacho, Savage, Zidane etc are playing.
This isn’t just a run of form either it’s been like this for a long time, at what point can we feck them all of to the bench and start giving the youth a chance? I bet we don’t lose that game if Garnacho, Savage, Zidane etc are playing.
he needs to tweak his tactics a little for the next game. Abandon the playing out from the back because Liverpool will be all over us like a rash. We don’t have the players to play out from the back. Go a bit more direct … also need to play martinez in midfield… Brentford’s manager is the first one to come out and say they targeted him and I’m sure others will follow.
Our squad is rubbish but the difference between preseason snd now is shocking anyhow
Don't think i have seen a new manager look so downcast so quickly as he did in that post match its truly remarkable its like he was about to cry.
Hes not blameless by any means but i think he realised he is fecked, certainly respect him backing himself but its exactly what we were saying all summer wasn't it, you just can't win with greedy owners, an incompetent structure and an ill equipped squad (putting it mildly) no matter who you are.
Completely different context to Artetas start that though, covid ravaged their squad plus they also had a bunch of injuries. We have been playing our best eleven.
Hes not blameless by any means but i think he realised he is fecked, certainly respect him backing himself but its exactly what we were saying all summer wasn't it, you just can't win with greedy owners, an incompetent structure and an ill equipped squad (putting it mildly) no matter who you are.
Completely different context to Artetas start that though, covid ravaged their squad plus they also had a bunch of injuries. We have been playing our best eleven.
So what’s the measure of how much this job has broken him in 6 months time considering he has no hair anyway?
Its interesting that the players are taking stick for yesterday's loss. Let's be honest the loss and particuly the manner of it is on two people mainly DDG (last seasons player of the year, who many on here said wasn't a serious issue, newsflash he is) and ETH himself for an unacceptable level of naivety in thinking he could get away with a side devoid of physicality and aerial ability against fecking Brentford, another newsflash you cant. Does he actually still think he's at ajax? We will just high press and they will give us the ball back trying to play the Dutch way. Another newsflash Erik this is the EPL you have to be able to cope with direct physical football to have any hope of getting control.
I hope he learns fast I really do otherwise we could be in a real tailspin.
I hope he learns fast I really do otherwise we could be in a real tailspin.
I’m hoping it won’t be wasted if, like occasionally played at Ajax, he can be our ball playing DM with Lindelof and Varane behind.
look at Citeh with Rodri, DeBruye, Foden, Gundogan, Mahrez and Haaland…all of which are capable of passing, receiving, maintaining possession. Good in tight spaces. Then we look at McFred, Bruno, Rashford…all of which concede so much possession.
Having Martinez, Eriksen and arguably even DVB who are all technically beyond the aforementioned we would at least keep hold of the damn thing instead of seeing so many wayward, school boy passes
He needs to drop the notion you don’t need a DM in the EPL.
Yeah, generally I agree. He will, I think. He is tough. He won’t persist with players and formations that he knows are not going to get results.
I’m sure it’s not so Machiavellian as this but I’d like to think he is showing everyone that the old guard are not up to it before launching a full-on “play the kids” policy.
he cant persist with the same formation/tactics with the starting 11 he has at his disposal.
It's the hope that kills. We thought ETH is in Pep, Klopp, Conte and Tuchel level where they can go into a club and straightaway make their presence felt.
For ETH, I really hope that he only needs more time and can get things right. Hope he is not another of our long list of failed manager after SAF.
For ETH, I really hope that he only needs more time and can get things right. Hope he is not another of our long list of failed manager after SAF.
Make them run laps in training, that'll show 'em
I really thought ETH could at least coach this useless bunch to get the best out of them to at least play decent football. Little did I know that this bunch was beyond useless.
Rangnick is known as professor of football and he was right all along. We need to sign about 10 players to change the style of play for the better. And it doesn't have to take long.
We should have trust him and let him be the DOF. As things stand, we need at least another 2 or 3 years to start play as a team again.
Rangnick is known as professor of football and he was right all along. We need to sign about 10 players to change the style of play for the better. And it doesn't have to take long.
We should have trust him and let him be the DOF. As things stand, we need at least another 2 or 3 years to start play as a team again.
Everything that the dutch/Ajax fans told us about him have been true so far except the part where he actually turns it around. We had been told it will take some time for his methods to work so I guess we'll just have to trust that it will.
We had been warned to expect the points below and all are true so far.
All in all the majority of the blame still lies with the board for keeping these players and essentially allowing EtH to choose his own targets in the market.
We had been warned to expect the points below and all are true so far.
- He's shite in the transfer market
- Awkward with the press
- Will inexplicably give significant minutes to players who are either shite or undeserving
- He will frustrate initially with results on the pitch
All in all the majority of the blame still lies with the board for keeping these players and essentially allowing EtH to choose his own targets in the market.
He will learn it fast. Try not to worry so much!
It doesn't feel like a manager that is bringing fresh new ideas does it, in fact it very much feels like Ole is still at the club and i think there would ordinarily be a hell of a lot more patience but i also think people are just sick of seeing the same players particularly after last season, that well has just completely run dry.
Which hurts quite a bit i mean we have been lead to believe he picks based on merit yet he takes off his own signing to keep Maguire on the pitch, he brings on McTominay after the worst CM performance the league has ever seen ahead of Donny and Garner, he refuses to start Malacia again who has come off the bench twice to prove why Shaw is useless. Nevermind Bruno and Rashford etc.
He even did an Ole move and brought Donny on in the last few minutes of the game i really did laugh my ass off you can't help but wonder what is going on.
Which hurts quite a bit i mean we have been lead to believe he picks based on merit yet he takes off his own signing to keep Maguire on the pitch, he brings on McTominay after the worst CM performance the league has ever seen ahead of Donny and Garner, he refuses to start Malacia again who has come off the bench twice to prove why Shaw is useless. Nevermind Bruno and Rashford etc.
He even did an Ole move and brought Donny on in the last few minutes of the game i really did laugh my ass off you can't help but wonder what is going on.
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Why people put any value on what happens during preseason, I’ll never know.
It’s training matches, played at 90% intensity at best. It has very, very little predictive value for what will happen when matches actually matter, beyond giving an indication of what the manager is hoping to achieve.
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@Samid is right.
I don't understand this. Is Murtough trying to win a reality TV show where he needs public backing and so has to look supportive? Who cares whether or not he looks supportive as long as he does his job? As a Football Director his job is to look after the long term interests of United as a football club. Supposedly, he's the one who hired Ten Hag. So Ten Hag should be expecting to work to him not the other way around.
Inclined to agree. City even said no to Pep on Kane when the price went north of £100m. None of the elite clubs in world football just give the head coach what he wants. Does anyone seriously believe that Carlo Ancelotti tells Florentino Perez what to do or who to sign? We are so far behind the clubs we consider our rivals, on and off the pitch, that we look clueless by comparison. We're going to end up with a comparable spend to what Tottenham has done in both the January and summer windows this year. Just look at what they've been able to do in comparison to us.
Exactly. Ultimately, this all comes back to the fact that our much talked about structure is a myth. Its bizarre that between our Football Director, his Head of Recruitment and the people that feed into that, we couldn't find players who matched De Jong's profile and could act as suitable alternatives. Instead, we're chucking money at Juventus for a player they don't want who doesn't do any of the things De Jong does.
Its starting to become difficult to believe Ten Hag will succeed and I don't blame him for it. The way this club is run will make it hard for any head coach to succeed. We are literally set up for substandard outcomes.
We've just got to be patient and give Ten Hag a few transfer windows to mould his own squad (if he actually gets backed). Yesterday was an absolute joke but it was largely down to stupid individual mistakes by players that may not have what it takes to play in his system.
Plenty of people have said it was gonna be ugly at time trying to play this type of football with some of these players, but this is the football most of our fans want to see us play and you can't throw it out of the window.
Plenty of people have said it was gonna be ugly at time trying to play this type of football with some of these players, but this is the football most of our fans want to see us play and you can't throw it out of the window.
He said in a post match presser that he asked the players to invite Brentford on to them and play the long ball, but they failed to carry out his instructions.
This is a good post and a useful summary.
The only part I disagree with is the idea that any blame is necessary at this point. We had a couple of shocking results but it’s not at the inquest stage yet.
Can you provide the dates/games when this took place? There was a good deal of grumbling and one banner that gets wheeled out to this day, but I can’t recall mass revolt. The fans were generally supportive, not because we were especially patient but because every third game or so we’d play absolutely brilliantly.
We need signings and we need them fast, whether it's Rabiot and wait for De Jong or just decide feck it and get SMS and Rabiot, but going into Liverpool
Rabiot
SMS Eriksen
is 1000x better than anything we have, He's a fantastic coach but you can't coach Mentality into players. They have to stand up and be counted themselves, for far to long some of these players have underperformed and not only have they not been moved on, we've rewarded them with new contracts, so why would they care? In their heads they'll outlast the manager anyway,SMS Eriksen
Not so easy when Brentford go ahead in the first 10 mins then are 3 up by 30 mins though.
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