Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[Cloudface]

I get the feeling he's been sold a duck with regards to the mentality of the squad. The whole "we got 2nd place thing" will have been sold to him when he was recruited and I don't doubt that the players look quite good in pre-season/training where the pressure is off. Put them in a football stadium though and they hide and shirk responsibility like it's no ones business. We'll see how he responds, I hope he's ruthless.

 

[Jazz]

I think for his sake and ours he has to quickly realise there are a set of players who won't improve, or just hasn't go the mentality to fight through this shit period. He needs to be brave and integrate the youth/fringe players until we can get other players in (whenever that is). There's no point persisting and believing these players will turn it around.

Keep playing the usual suspects and they will make sure he's sacked. Just go with hungry players for a start.

I'm not quite sure how you keep the dressing room from being even more toxic if these players are dropped though. That's a huge challenge but I think it needs doing because we haven't got any other choice. Besides, I think less established players will be more susceptible to learning his methods. We have a group of players who think they know best. Just feck them off to the bench or wherever.

 

[Jazz]

2 or 3 months of training but nothing has changed really.

We still play like Ole ball. No running and pressing. Players jog on the field. No obvious style of play. Shit defence. Non existent midfield. Poor attack.

Having said that ETH deserve at least a season. He needs to show improvement. If these results continues it will becomes untenable for him as well as for the board. There will be more and more protests.

The players aren't doing what they're being taught. It's as simple as that. They feel they know better and he needs to accept this and just drop them. No reason to persist with them.

 

[vanderpants]

He hasn't helped himself by constantly picking Maguire Fred and De Gea, some of the blame has to be pointed at ETH

 

[Jazz]

He needs to given a bye this season whatever happens. Let him learn from his mistakes and build a suitable team capable of playing his way. We cannot keep changing managers and giving this squad clean slates, the lazy good for nothing cnuts are taking us further and further into decline

This.

Just needs to secure the 40 points from somewhere imho and then carry on. Don't let the players get away with this again. Fans really need to make their feelings heard on this one.

 

[spiriticon]

Exactly. Changing captain is the least of our concerns. I don't know why people make such a big deal of it.

Its a concern because as long as Maguire is captain, he is never ever dropped. That cannot be right.

Stripping him of captaincy is simply the first step towards shoving him out the door eventually.

 

[#07]

Not sure what he is complaining about. He insists on having Frenkie de Jong despite it being a very complicated deal. Antony is never a £70million player.

Getting mainly Ajax-related players esp Martinez who many said was too small to be a CB for the PL showed his naivety or an over-blow ego. I think we now know the role Overmars played in Ajax's success.

We knew Overmars' role in Ajax's success before we hired Ten Hag. Only this club would hire a coach like Ten Hag and ask him to be a manager.

At a functioning club a Director of Football would have intervened in the Frankie de Jong chase months ago and said: 'Erik we can't get De Jong. However, here are 10 players our recruitment department has identified based on De Jong's characteristics. They have a similar profile and can play the connecting midfielder role. Which do you want?' You don't see City chasing Cucurella for months.

That doesn't happen at United though. There's no 'list', which leads to 'Plan B' being Rabiot: A totally different player.

It baffles me that we hired Ten Hag in April. Yet we have not been able or willing to develop a comprehensive list of profiles based on his Ajax team that we could recommend him.

Our version of 'backing the manager' doesn't happen at any other elite club. We are a laughing stock across Europe because of the backwards and amateurish way we do things.

 

[sglowrider]

I get the feeling he's been sold a duck with regards to the mentality of the squad. The whole "we got 2nd place thing" will have been sold to him when he was recruited and I don't doubt that the players look quite good in pre-season/training where the pressure is off. Put them in a football stadium though and they hide and shirk responsibility like it's no ones business. We'll see how he responds, I hope he's ruthless.

I think that's quite insulting to a coach like ETH. Do you think he is that dumb and naive? He's 52y.o and not some first-time coach. As reported he gave a blunt assessment to Arnold and Murtough when they had their first meeting.

 

[Yakuza_devils]

This.

Just needs to secure the 40 points from somewhere imho and then carry on. Don't let the players get away with this again. Fans really need to make their feelings heard on this one.

Realistically this will be untenable for ETH and the board. They will get dogshit abuse and protests everywhere. If results don't improve many heads need to roll.

 

[Woodzy]

Absolutely no point talking about the manager atm. Doesn’t matter who is in charge right now these players are a joke.

Ralf spotted it early, and now ETH is learning it quickly. The reality is that we went far too long with Ole giving them cuddles when it was fairly obvious the weren’t great players.

 

[sglowrider]

We knew Overmars' role in Ajax's success before we hired Ten Hag. Only this club would hire a coach like Ten Hag and ask him to be a manager.

At a functioning club a Director of Football would have intervened in the Frankie de Jong chase months ago and said: 'Erik we can't get De Jong. However, here are 10 players our recruitment department has identified based on De Jong's characteristics. They have a similar profile and can play the connecting midfielder role. Which do you want?' You don't see City chasing Cucurella for months.

That doesn't happen at United though. There's no 'list', which leads to 'Plan B' being Rabiot: A totally different player.

It baffles me that we hired Ten Hag in April. Yet we have not been able or willing to develop a comprehensive list of profiles based on his Ajax team that we could recommend him.

Our version of 'backing the manager' doesn't happen at any other elite club. We are a laughing stock across Europe because of the backwards and amateurish way we do things.

I think Murtough is over-compensating for the previous regime by being super-accomodating and supportive in getting the players that ETH had asked for -- barr Antony.

 

[Delano]

He has to be backed by the club and the supporters. We've set a talented, rising coach up for failure and ultimately if he goes - I don't see another quality coach touching us with a fecking bargepole.

 

[Leftback99]

Its a concern because as long as Maguire is captain, he is never ever dropped. That cannot be right.

Stripping him of captaincy is simply the first step towards shoving him out the door eventually.

If true (that he's undroppable, it's not), you are saying there is another player who deserves to be undroppable? Who?

 

[#07]

I think Murtough is over-compensating for the previous regime by being super-accomodating and supportive in getting the players that ETH had asked for -- barr Antony.

Well then he needs to learn how to be a Football Director fast. Cos none of this reflects well on him or Richard Arnold.

If we had Luis Campos or Monchi in place this wouldn't be happening. If Murtough wasn't sure about how to do the job, maybe he should have hired an experienced consultant to bounce ideas off...

 

[Drifter]

ETH will become just another Glazer puppet

 

[Mickeza]

We hired LVG - renowned coach who had been out of the club game and was never known for his transfer dealings - and gave him carte blanche on who to sign. I’ve always thought if we gave LVG the right squad he could have done something but we made very poor signings. Now we’ve hired ETH - renowned coach who wasn’t responsible for the players Ajax signed - and we’re giving him carte Blanche on who to target. Our entire scouting database is his head. It’s bonkers and we’re just repeating the same bollocks as before. Unless we get recruitment right no manager will ever succeed here - and the guy who is allowing him to dictate signings is the same guy who overhauled our recruitment department - so if it isn’t up to scratch who’s fault is that?

 

[spiriticon]

If true (that he's undroppable, it's not), you are saying there is another player who deserves to be undroppable? Who?

Maguire is undroppable. He plays all the fecking time when fit, stinking the place up week on week.

There should be no undroppable player, including the club captain. If the captain has to sit on the bench all season, so be it in my eyes. In that case, I wouldn't care so much for the captaincy.

 

[Jev]

I think Murtough is over-compensating for the previous regime by being super-accomodating and supportive in getting the players that ETH had asked for -- barr Antony.

The weird thing is, haven't we already always done that? Backed the manager to the extend that every 12 months, a new guy was allowed to disassemble a very expensive team built by the previous guy, only to restart the process the next season?

Now we're seeing the same with ETH because we don't have that guy, a football or sports director, who looks at the bigger picture, the long-term plan, rather than thinking on the quick-fix path to success, as managers often because they know they might only be here for two years. When ETH wanted Martinez, you need that guy who says: Look, that's all well and good, but frankly we spent north of 100 million assembling our CB duo and one of them was bought less than a year ago. Just make it work, and then we'll use the money for positions that are more pressing concerns. If anything the problem is that we haven't been doing that with any of our managers.

 

[Laurencio]

We hired LVG - renowned coach who had been out of the club game and was never known for his transfer dealings - and gave him carte blanche on who to sign. I’ve always thought if we gave LVG the right squad he could have done something but we made very poor signings. Now we’ve hired ETH - renowned coach who wasn’t responsible for the players Ajax signed - and we’re giving him carte Blanche on who to target. Our entire scouting database is his head. It’s bonkers and we’re just repeating the same bollocks as before. Unless we get recruitment right no manager will ever succeed here - and the guy who is allowing him to dictate signings is the same guy who overhauled our recruitment department - so if it isn’t up to scratch who’s fault is that?

I was all for giving the new DoF a chance, but you can't argue with that. They have done a terrible job of it so far. The Arnautovic nonsense was just crazy.

 

[Jazz]

Well then he needs to learn how to be a Football Director fast. Cos none of this reflects well on him or Richard Arnold.

If we had Luis Campos or Monchi in place this wouldn't be happening. If Murtough wasn't sure about how to do the job, maybe he should have hired an experienced consultant to bounce ideas off...

He probably has a big fat ego and wouldn't want to listen to any advice. We can't have people with that kind of shit mentality heading up our football structure. Just incompetence from all parties involved.

 

[CallyRed]

I don't believe that. There was a lot of red flag with ETH coming in that people choose to block because ETH was suppose to be a pep successor and he had some success in a league that the likes of De boer had. That loss to Benfica, was embarrassing yet it was barely noted in this forum. That moment, I saw a manager that will not be able to take us to the next level when he is losing to a team like that in one of their most important games.

On the other hand, Pochettino was wanted by the players, sir Alex and few notable pundits. We look at how he has transformed spurs and took psg to the semi final and went undefeated at home for a season and it is something that we crave and want at United. Someone that can bring a healthy environment, play attractive football, and bring a level of consistency at a top level. Pochettino definitely has a much better track record and less red flag that would make me see him doing much better.

Wondered how long it would take for your head to pop up.

 

[fergiewherearethou]

The players aren't doing what they're being taught. It's as simple as that. They feel they know better and he needs to accept this and just drop them. No reason to persist with them.

Well, no one knows that for a fact.
Maybe the players are simply incapable of playing "his way". They simply can't do it.
Drop them and play who ? The kids ? We are few in numbers with the departures and the few players coming in.
A good and smart manager needs to adapt to what he has and also, doesn't matter if you have the right ideas if you are unable to implement them to the players and on the pitch.
Many of the current issues were here a long time ago and ETH hasn't addressed them sooner. It's like the past, the pre-season and the training sessions never existed and he landed at Man Utd 1 week ago.
He needed 2 defeats to realize what was here for so long.

I mean our incapacity to press, to run, to win physical duels, to close down opponents, to pass, to move into channels and the list go on, were patched with a back-up no10, a young unproven dutch wing back and a short, overpriced CB (when we had 4 options there already). My questions is....where the hell are the CM's???

 

[Judas]

ETH will become just another Glazer puppet

What does this even mean.

 

[Leftback99]

Maguire is undroppable. He plays all the fecking time when fit, stinking the place up week on week.

There should be no undroppable player, including the club captain. If the captain has to sit on the bench all season, so be it in my eyes. In that case, I wouldn't care so much for the captaincy.

Except when he was dropped last season (and we were no better) obviously.

So you don't have an alternative, just complaining?

 

[spiriticon]

Except when he was dropped last season (and we were no better) obviously.

So you don't have an alternative, just complaining?

For all of 3 or 4 games? Thats not dropping, that's 'resting'.

Dropping means many months where he doesn't play.

I personally do not care who is captain so as long as it gives ten Hag a chance to 'rest' Maguire, preferably for the next 12 to 24 months.

 

[sglowrider]

The weird thing is, haven't we already always done that? Backed the manager to the extend that every 12 months, a new guy was allowed to disassemble a very expensive team built by the previous guy, only to restart the process the next season?

Now we're seeing the same with ETH because we don't have that guy, a football or sports director, who looks at the bigger picture, the long-term plan, rather than thinking on the quick-fix path to success, as managers often because they know they might only be here for two years. When ETH wanted Martinez, you need that guy who says: Look, that's all well and good, but frankly we spent north of 100 million assembling our CB duo and one of them was bought less than a year ago. Just make it work, and then we'll use the money for positions that are more pressing concerns. If anything the problem is that we haven't been doing that with any of our managers.

Maybe there were some non negotiables with ETH's contract on who he can choose?

 

[sglowrider]

Well then he needs to learn how to be a Football Director fast. Cos none of this reflects well on him or Richard Arnold.

If we had Luis Campos or Monchi in place this wouldn't be happening. If Murtough wasn't sure about how to do the job, maybe he should have hired an experienced consultant to bounce ideas off...

Maybe he was so desperate to sign ETH he had to give up a bunch of authority to the manager? Or ETH won't join United.

 

[Focusmate]

People are talking as if ETH has lots of talented options to choose from rather than a threadbare squad of proven failures. He needed a whole new team and has got almost nothing

 

[Samid]

Maybe there were some non negotiables with ETH's contract on who he can choose?

Then you tell the guy you’re not in sync with our values and we won’t be offering you a contract. Simple.

 

[Pughnichi]

Full in the gaps as you will but I really want to see this

Removes Maguire, Shaw, McFred, Rashford and Bruno. And their replacement all have decent technical ability

Martinez holding, Eriksen the link and Donny further up can’t do any worse than the horrific Bruno

XX- Lindelof-Varane- Malacia
Eriksen-Martinez-DVB
XX-XX-Sancho

 

[Judas]

DVB has shown nothing ever to suggest he deserves a fresh start, he's as big of a weak mentality link as the rest of the losers.

 

[RedDevilQuebecois]

For all of 3 or 4 games? Thats not dropping, that's 'resting'.

Dropping means many months where he doesn't play.

I personally do not care who is captain so as long as it gives ten Hag a chance to 'rest' Maguire, preferably for the next 12 to 24 months.

This. Dropping a guy also means benching him long enough and often enough that the player's chances of making the national team decrease drastically, and that should be a kick in the arse.

 

[sglowrider]

Then you tell the guy you’re not in sync with our values and we won’t be offering you a contract. Simple.

We can't have it both ways. One hand we are a shambles of a club. Then on the other hand dictate what must be a major point with ETH if he is to sign on.

It's a no win situation for Murtough. Fine line between looking not being supportive and overly supportive

 

[Gurtej]

This is what ETH needs to do!!

Drop Maquire and remove him from Captain!! Being Lindelof on!!

Play Garnacho in place of Rashford (seriously how much worse can he do)!!

Play Malacia (again how much worse can he do)!!

Drop Bruno and play Eriksen in that role and play Iqbal and whoever we get as another midfielder behind him!!

Rest I would love to change but we just don’t have options!! I would love to change 10 players as Ralf R suggested but we just don’t have players!!

 

[C3Pique]

The weird thing is, haven't we already always done that? Backed the manager to the extend that every 12 months, a new guy was allowed to disassemble a very expensive team built by the previous guy, only to restart the process the next season?

Now we're seeing the same with ETH because we don't have that guy, a football or sports director, who looks at the bigger picture, the long-term plan, rather than thinking on the quick-fix path to success, as managers often because they know they might only be here for two years. When ETH wanted Martinez, you need that guy who says: Look, that's all well and good, but frankly we spent north of 100 million assembling our CB duo and one of them was bought less than a year ago. Just make it work, and then we'll use the money for positions that are more pressing concerns. If anything the problem is that we haven't been doing that with any of our managers.

This. That £60m would have been much better spent on a forward or midfielder. At least at CB we already had depth, if not quality. Behind Rashford or Sancho, McTominay or Fred we're down to players out of position or kids with zero PL experience.

A competent DoF or recruitment team would have also overruled the Martinez purchase based on his unsuitability for the PL. Now we're stuck with a midget CB who we'll be unable to move on when we inevitably sack EtH.

We should have a list of midfielders that play the FdJ role ready to pick from. Instead we're begging him to come and the alternatives are already off the table.

Arnold and Murtough are no better than Woodward. At least Woodward had some sort of plan, even if his Wish Galacticos setup was a stupid one. These lot are just clueless.

 

[Leftback99]

For all of 3 or 4 games? Thats not dropping, that's 'resting'.

Dropping means many months where he doesn't play.

I personally do not care who is captain so as long as it gives ten Hag a chance to 'rest' Maguire, preferably for the next 12 to 24 months.

Basically you just don't like Maguire then. It's nothing to do with captaincy which is how this started.

 

[Magical Manchester United]

I think Arteta is the perfect example of why it's important to give Ten Hag time. Arteta joined Arsenal midway through the 2019-20 season. Won 1 of his first 8 games (against United). Won 3 in a row before lockdown, then locked shambolic against Man City after lockdown. Very mixed results in the last few games. However wins an FA Cup. Season after, start well with 2 wins then up until Christmas their form is awful. 14 points from 14 games after their defeat to Everton. There was even some talk of a relegation battle. People saying Arteta isn't good eough. After that I think they were 3rd in the form table behind City and ourselves. Then there was the start to last season with the three defeats. Again Artetaty rub being questioned. Though they probably weren't helped by playing City and Chelsea in that run. After that, over the course of the season they'd have some games where they'd look really good,, for example in the home games against City and Liverpool, despite losing. Then games where they'd look pretty rubbish, like Newcastle and Spurs at the end of the season. Now, they're starting to look a real threat. Nearly 3 years after Arteta joined.

Not even just Arteta. The likes of Klopp and Guardiola took a bit of time to turn their clubs into the force they are now. Klopp had some shockers in his first season and a bit. Remember them losing a 3-1 lead at Bournemouth. And Southampton scoring 3 in about 15 minutes. Everton took Guardiola's City apart in his first season.

We might have some shockers this season. But I think they'll be mixed in with some memorable games for the right reasons.

No chance against Liverpool mind. Writing that one off.

 

[Gorefest]

Walking 3 months into a 3+1 contract seems excessive. What assurance? That we get the right players according to his needs? The 2 players (Malacia and Martinez would not normally be in our radar) and then wanting Frenkie after a 3 months chase is on him.

Arnautović is his recommendation since he has played for ETH at Twente.

The only deal that Murtough wasn't supportive of was Antony at £70m.

I would say that Murtough & Arnold have been overly supportive of ETH if anything.

So what other 'assurances' was he demanding that has not been met besides Antony?

It is their job to provide ETH with the players that he needs. He already has too much on his plate to also do their jobs for them. At Ajax, he had Overmars to bring in the players. ETH tells them the type of player he needs (e.g. FdJ) and it is then up to the scouting network of Man Utd to find a suitable match. Just because ETH mentions De Jong doesn't mean Murtough has to slavishly hang around Camp Nou until he can get a word in. He needs to find a player that fits that profile. But clearly they either don't understand their own job or they have no clue how to scout or analyse a player profile.

 

[spiriticon]

Basically you just don't like Maguire then. It's nothing to do with captaincy which is how this started.

Maguire is the captain, so any conversation about captaincy has to involve him yes? I don't like him much as a footballer, snd he is the captain and undroppable. Don't care who is captain as long as its not Maguire. Give it to Elanga, whatever.

As long as Maguire is his captain and 'has to play', ten Hag will have no chance to play the type of front foot football he wants. Phasing Maguire out of the team permanently has to be a top priority.

 

[Leftback99]

Maguire is the captain, so any conversation about captaincy has to involve him yes? I don't like him much as a footballer, snd he is the captain and undroppable. Don't care who is captain as long as its not Maguire. Give it to Elanga, whatever.

As long as Maguire is his captain and 'has to play', ten Hag will have no chance to play the type of front foot football he wants.

So we give it Elanga and he 'has to play' because he's captain?