Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

Status
Not open for further replies.
fallengt said:
Played well but subs killed it
Almost like he didn't try to win.
Click to expand...

A sub scored the goal and should have also had an assist.

I've been the most vocal anti Ten Hag person on this forum this summer but the way he set the team up addressed so many of the issues we experienced last season and Rashford missing a sitter, a good chance, Amad not reaching Mount with that pass and McTominay not having (I don't rate a lot of his game but) his usual goalscoring instincts is nothing to do with how he set us up.

As the most vocal member of the Ten Hag out group, today was good from the manager.

Before anyone mentions "well he put those players on the pitch" Rashford has been inconsistent in a lot of aspects but a very good finisher for years, Amad is generally very measured in the box, Mount makes good goalscoring runs and McTominay is a player who does tend to get on the end of things in the box.

He still has a long way to go but he did an excellent job today.
 
Irwin99 said:
Decent game with some promising signs. Still not sure he can get enough goals out of this team though.
Click to expand...

Neither am I but today we created chances much more based on what we did rather than waiting for errors from the opposition. For me this is a very good sign.
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
Click to expand...


I think the only shit on target was their goal. Other then that it was them hitting the post based on Martinez not being confident in a position and nothing else of any significance.

Man City were extremely lucky to get a draw out of that and I'll give Ten Hag credit I think he genuinely out thought Pep today.
 
OverratedOpinion said:
I think the only shit on target was their goal. Other then that it was them hitting the post based on Martinez not being confident in a position and nothing else of any significance.

Man City were extremely lucky to get a draw out of that and I'll give Ten Hag credit I think he genuinely out thought Pep today.
Click to expand...

We played better today than we did in the cup final and we played well in the cup final too.

A very encouraging performance. Hopefully we smash Fulham to get off to a flyer in the league.
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
We played better today than we did in the cup final and we played well in the cup final too.

A very encouraging performance. Hopefully we smash Fulham to get off to a flyer in the league.
Click to expand...

I agree, of course it's hard to compare because of the difference in importance of matches and squads available but we basically dominated that game in my view. I'm genuinely impressed and think Ten Hag did very well.
 
Robbie Boy said:
Positive signs from yesterday.
Click to expand...

Yes, though second half was obviously where we should have won it, really promising signs from the first too where city were slightly deeper. We normally struggle to play through mid and low blocks so to create against it was good.

Obviously it's a glorified preseason match and City fielded some kids (though I think Mainoo was still the youngest player?) ultimately it was promising and we would have won if not for the 'preseason mindset' change to bring Pellistri in at right back to get him minutes
 
Good game yesterday, I was very much in ETH OUT camp but this was promising.

Can we conclude now that those players are capable of challenging the likes of Man City? Sure some of their players were missing but we also played without a striker, with Evans and Martinez out of position - and still had a good game!
 
Borys said:
Good game yesterday, I was very much in ETH OUT camp but this was promising.

Can we conclude now that those players are capable of challenging the likes of Man City? Sure some of their players were missing but we also played without a striker, with Evans and Martinez out of position - and still had a good game!
Click to expand...
We were missing Yoro, Shaw and Hojlund but were pretty much full strength in every other part of the field. City started a midfield three of O'Reilly, Kovacic and McAtee.

It was more encouraging than last season but I think there's still a long way to go. Even just Rodri's inclusion likely would have meant pure City dominance in the midfield. Until we fix the balance of ours I'm still expecting to see 10+ shots per game for the opposition. Let's see how we get on against Fulham. City were treating that match as a friendly, the proof will be in the pudding once the true competitive football starts.
 
Borys said:
Good game yesterday, I was very much in ETH OUT camp but this was promising.

Can we conclude now that those players are capable of challenging the likes of Man City? Sure some of their players were missing but we also played without a striker, with Evans and Martinez out of position - and still had a good game!
Click to expand...
Certainly more encouraging, there was a bit of pressing that he’s been trying to implement for a long time and not get exposed in the middle but we do need a new CM. Early signs are always good but for me I’ll reserve judgement for a few more games.
 
The defence was poor in parts, but they won’t play much as DeLight Martinez and Yoro will be the main 3 CD. Onana still doesn’t fill me with confidence. Saying that Rashford aside everything else seems to have improved. Patterns of play, pressing etc. For the life of me couldn’t understand why Zirkzee didn’t get a few minutes at least. I would start Garnacho Zirkzee Amad against Fulham.
 
CM said:
We were missing Yoro, Shaw and Hojlund but were pretty much full strength in every other part of the field. City started a midfield three of O'Reilly, Kovacic and McAtee.

It was more encouraging than last season but I think there's still a long way to go. Even just Rodri's inclusion likely would have meant pure City dominance in the midfield. Until we fix the balance of ours I'm still expecting to see 10+ shots per game for the opposition. Let's see how we get on against Fulham. City were treating that match as a friendly, the proof will be in the pudding once the true competitive football starts.
Click to expand...
Agreed. Still looks like we've not been tested in a proper high intensity game, so I'm not drawing any conclusions from preseason.
 
CM said:
We were missing Yoro, Shaw and Hojlund but were pretty much full strength in every other part of the field. City started a midfield three of O'Reilly, Kovacic and McAtee.

It was more encouraging than last season but I think there's still a long way to go. Even just Rodri's inclusion likely would have meant pure City dominance in the midfield. Until we fix the balance of ours I'm still expecting to see 10+ shots per game for the opposition. Let's see how we get on against Fulham. City were treating that match as a friendly, the proof will be in the pudding once the true competitive football starts.
Click to expand...
Zirkzee also did not feature, we played without a CF. We know the defenders are being upgraded and we expect a midfield upgrade too. The tactical plan and theme we are pushing obvioisly has some merit.
 
Cassidy said:
Zirkzee also did not feature, we played without a CF. We know the defenders are being upgraded and we expect a midfield upgrade too. The tactical plan and theme we are pushing obvioisly has some merit.
Click to expand...
Zirkzee covers the same position as Hojlund though, that's an either or.

There will be some incremental upgrades on what we had yesterday with De Ligt and Mazraoui coming in, but I don't think we will see meaningful change until we address the balance of the midfield. That has been broken for a number of years now.
 
CM said:
Zirkzee covers the same position as Hojlund though, that's an either or.

There will be some incremental upgrades on what we had yesterday with De Ligt and Mazraoui coming in, but I don't think we will see meaningful change until we address the balance of the midfield. That has been broken for a number of years now.
Click to expand...
Yes and they both did not play so we played without a CF

De Ligt is not an incremental upgrade on Evans or Maguire

Rodri played in the fa cup final by the way.
 
Got to be said, very encouraging performance. He is extremely lucky to still be in a Job at Old Trafford. But here we are.

New season, let's see how we get on.
 
People forget this is still pre season and players aren’t going 100%. We did actually look good but so did we against them in the final. We won’t see our true colours until the league starts.

We need a clinical forward, how anyone can be happy with what we have up top is beyond me. No one fills me with confidence in regards to scoring goals.

The midfield will struggle for control next season again and now awb is gone we’re in desperate need of a rb.

Overall i don’t think much has changed short term but hopefully we don’t get any injuries.

Also evans took on of the worst pens Ive seen in a while. If you’re not confident, go low.
 
Cassidy said:
Yes and they both did not play so we played without a CF

Rodri played in the fa cup final by the way.
Click to expand...
We also started without a recognised striker in the cup final, and the final few games of last season when Hojlund was on the bench. Obviously missing a striker isn't great but throwing in the extra midfielder covers for some of the deficiencies of Ten Hag's usual system too. From what I've read, Zirkzee is more of a 9.5 so could be more akin to some of the attacking midfielders in that role than Hojlund anyway.

I'm aware Rodri played the cup final. I'm referencing the 40 odd other games last season where our midfield got dominated.
 
CM said:
We also started without a recognised striker in the cup final, and the final few games of last season when Hojlund was on the bench. Obviously missing a striker isn't great but throwing in the extra midfielder covers for some of the deficiencies of Ten Hag's usual system too. From what I've read, Zirkzee is more of a 9.5 so could be more akin to some of the attacking midfielders in that role than Hojlund anyway.

I'm aware Rodri played the cup final. I'm referencing the 40 odd other games last season where our midfield got dominated.
Click to expand...
Zirkzee is a CF like Kane hes not akin to an attacking midfielder

Big reason that happened was because of the defensive team structure and personnel and not necessarily the make up of midfield as ETH has said and is demonstrating. Big gaps in midfield were left because of a passive defensive line and lapses in the pressing unit. This is the biggest thing ETH has changed so far the pressing structure and team shape looks much better

However as mentioned we are also upgrading midfield
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
We played better today than we did in the cup final and we played well in the cup final too.

A very encouraging performance. Hopefully we smash Fulham to get off to a flyer in the league.
Click to expand...
We did! And that’s saying something. We have to show that level of commitment and application against teams like Fulham though and not just reserve it for games against City. The defending deep and breaking has always suited us better though.
 
OverratedOpinion said:
I think the only shit on target was their goal. Other then that it was them hitting the post based on Martinez not being confident in a position and nothing else of any significance.

Man City were extremely lucky to get a draw out of that and I'll give Ten Hag credit I think he genuinely out thought Pep today.
Click to expand...
Shame it soiled our performance
 
Was good yesterday.

However, it is still only pre season. Lets see how things look like in November, when games are coming thick and fast and how he manages the squad. I am very sceptical towards him and this season should be his last one if he does not deliver, i think everyone is on board with this.
 
OverratedOpinion said:
I think the only shit on target was their goal. Other then that it was them hitting the post based on Martinez not being confident in a position and nothing else of any significance.

Man City were extremely lucky to get a draw out of that and I'll give Ten Hag credit I think he genuinely out thought Pep today.
Click to expand...
Ye but let’s be honest. De Bruyne, Bernardo and Foden was all big misses for them. I know Bernardo came on but he didn’t start. We should have won though, Rashford had 2 of the easiest chances that he hit wide.
 
Cassidy said:
Zirkzee is a CF like Kane hes not akin to an attacking midfielder

Big reason that happened was because of the defensive team structure and personnel and not necessarily the make up of midfield as ETH has said and is demonstrating. Big gaps in midfield were left because of a passive defensive line and lapses in the pressing unit. This is the biggest thing ETH has changed so far the pressing structure and team shape looks much better

However as mentioned we are also upgrading midfield
Click to expand...
Hopefully beginning of this week we hear some movement on that but I think this weeks focus is on the 2 new defensive signings. So I don’t expect a midfielder until after the Fulham game.
 
crossy1686 said:
We did! And that’s saying something. We have to show that level of commitment and application against teams like Fulham though and not just reserve it for games against City. The defending deep and breaking has always suited us better though.
Click to expand...
100%. I feel like we underestimate a lot of the league and that’s why we never win against lower teams in the league. I’ve always said that city are the only team we ever come up with a plan against as you can tell. We need the same against everyone in the league. We won’t win them all of course not but aslong as the team are consistent in their play then we’re not going to be to harsh.
 
DJ_21 said:
Hopefully beginning of this week we hear some movement on that but I think this weeks focus is on the 2 new defensive signings. So I don’t expect a midfielder until after the Fulham game.
Click to expand...
You never know but sure even if we did they wont play against Fulham anyway. We should be beating Fulham at home regardless
 
Cassidy said:
Zirkzee is a CF like Kane hes not akin to an attacking midfielder

Big reason that happened was because of the defensive team structure and personnel and not necessarily the make up of midfield as ETH has said and is demonstrating. Big gaps in midfield were left because of a passive defensive line and lapses in the pressing unit. This is the biggest thing ETH has changed so far the pressing structure and team shape looks much better

However as mentioned we are also upgrading midfield
Click to expand...
I meant in terms of the positions Zirkzee will occupy on the pitch rather than how he will play.

It isn't just about the gaps in midfield (although that is a massive contributor) but also the intention of what Ten Hag wants to do with the ball. We've regularly played high risk passers in midfield like Casemiro, Eriksen and Fernandes who don't really care about keeping the ball, or ones like McTominay who just don't pass the ball at all. Mainoo is the only one who is more considered with his passing.

Until we sign more players who care about keeping the ball, we won't progress to the standards we need to as a team. We'll have to wait and see on the pressing thing. I'm not convinced that will work either unless we replace Casemiro and some of the defenders with more athletic counterparts. Even then I'm not sure I like it. Huge gaps in the middle of the pitch and consistently losing the ball in dangerous areas are huge red flags for me. Hopefully we won't be so naive this season.
 
CM said:
I meant in terms of the positions Zirkzee will occupy on the pitch rather than how he will play.

It isn't just about the gaps in midfield (although that is a massive contributor) but also the intention of what Ten Hag wants to do with the ball. We've regularly played high risk passers in midfield like Casemiro, Eriksen and Fernandes who don't really care about keeping the ball, or ones like McTominay who just don't pass the ball at all. Mainoo is the only one who is more considered with his passing.

Until we sign more players who care about keeping the ball, we won't progress to the standards we need to as a team. We'll have to wait and see on the pressing thing. I'm not convinced that will work either unless we replace Casemiro and some of the defenders with more athletic counterparts. Even then I'm not sure I like it. Huge gaps in the middle of the pitch and consistently losing the ball in dangerous areas are huge red flags for me. Hopefully we won't be so naive this season.
Click to expand...
Zirkzee is a CF hes similar to Martial on where he operates. The 9.5 stuff is overblown and a bit of copium with regards to his goal tally

We had no midfielders who want to keep the ball bar Mainoo. I mean come on, who in the team bar Mainoo and now Colleyer in midfield like to keep the ball or play simple passes to keep the ball? Mount to his credit who was missing all last season

When ETHs say we cant play like Ajax because we don’t have the players hes not crazy, hopefully again this is addressed with new signing and Mainoo Colleyer progressing.

But overall the discussion was about the tactical shape in preseason and against City who did field a good team and came to win. Its clear its addressing a-lot of the issues which is good. Now we add better personel to that and we hopefully move in the right direction.
 
Last edited:
Cassidy said:
We had no midfielders who want to keep the ball bar Mainoo
Click to expand...
That might be true but there has been very little intention to change that. This is Ten Hag's 3rd summer in the job and the only midfielder who we've been linked to in that respect was Frenkie de Jong in his first summer. That indicates it's something Ten Hag doesn't view as being very important, particularly when we've spent big money on the likes of Mason Mount last summer at his request.

In the first season we also looked like we were going down the route of possession football until the winter break with the World Cup and then there was a full 180. I don't think we're ever going to see any real care for how we look after the ball under this manager.
 
CM said:
That might be true but there has been very little intention to change that.
Click to expand...
This is clearly false on the part of ETH. Which is why he moved McT out of midfield and has promoted Mainoo. Just because we failed in the market as a club doesn’t change the intentions of the coach. Ugarte another player who values keeping the ball.

AWB out replaced with a player whos far more comfortable in possession. Martinez a player comfortable in possession. Dalot prioritised as a fullback a player comfortable in possession.

You need both risk takers and ball keepers. But the boss has clearly preffered those who are better on the ball in the squad and tried to bring in players who are too. Thats one of Yoros big strengths too.

Now that the recruitment is hopefully better we should start to see greater acceleration towards this trend in our recruitment which already seems apparent. Its not about midfield its about the entire 11

Edit: I also forgot about Onana
 
Cassidy said:
This is clearly false on the part of ETH. Which is why he moved McT out of midfield and has promoted Mainoo. Just because we failed in the market as a club doesn’t change the intentions of the coach. Ugarte another player who values keeping the ball.

AWB out replaced with a player whos far more comfortable in possession. Martinez a player comfortable in possession. Dalot prioritised as a fullback a player comfortable in possession.

You need both risk takers and ball keepers. But the boss has clearly preffered those who are better on the ball in the squad and tried to bring in players who are too. Thats one of Yoros big strengths too.

Now that the recruitment is hopefully better we should start to see greater acceleration towards this trend in our recruitment which already seems apparent. Its not about midfield its about the entire 11

Edit: I also forgot about Onana
Click to expand...
That's a bit of a cop out. I wouldn't lay the blame of the failure to negotiate deals well at his door but his influence on our transfers is clear to see. Over half the players we've signed under Ten Hag are either Dutch or ex-Ajax/Eredivisie. If he decided he wanted a passing midfielder over Mount last summer, for instance, he would've got that. Without question.

Onana and Martinez are the only real signings we've made under Ten Hag that would suggest a willingness to play possession football. The majority suggest his priorities lie elsewhere. I wouldn't take issue with us signing Ugarte as our midfield is such a mess but even he is being pushed out by Enrique because he doesn't feel Ugarte is good enough on the ball. Ugarte will probably be one of our better passers due to how neglectful we've been in this position of the pitch, but that kind of underlines the problem.

I get that not every player will be a technical maestro and there has to be a balance of different characteristics in the team but the midfield is the place where you make your intentions known in how you wish to play. When everybody except Mainoo is basically running around aimlessly or fecking around kicking it long to our forwards, it doesn't fill me with confidence. This is after 2 full seasons of coaching.
 
CM said:
That's a bit of a cop out. I wouldn't lay the blame of the failure to negotiate deals well at his door but his influence on our transfers is clear to see. Over half the players we've signed under Ten Hag are either Dutch or ex-Ajax/Eredivisie.
Click to expand...

And are all comfortable in possession.
 
A lot less hoof ball and more playing out of the back yesterday, which is what I expected when we signed Onana . Positive signs.
 
DJ_21 said:
Ye but let’s be honest. De Bruyne, Bernardo and Foden was all big misses for them. I know Bernardo came on but he didn’t start. We should have won though, Rashford had 2 of the easiest chances that he hit wide.
Click to expand...

We were missing Hojlund, Zirkzee judged not ready to play, Shaw, Yoro, and you can add De Ligt and the full back to players who we have this season.

De Bruyne isn't a key player for them anymore and Bernardo played and scored.

They clearly still have more to bring back into their first team but so do we.
 
OverratedOpinion said:
We were missing Hojlund, Zirkzee judged not ready to play, Shaw, Yoro, and you can add De Ligt and the full back to players who we have this season.

De Bruyne isn't a key player for them anymore and Bernardo played and scored.

They clearly still have more to bring back into their first team but so do we.
Click to expand...
De Bruyne will always be a key player for them. He can still make them passes that not many other players can. We were the better team and should have won but I still think we probably had the stronger line up to start with.
 
I thought our performance yesterday was much better than in the FA Cup final. We didnt play like underdogs, actually looked comfortable playing out from the back, and on the ball. Even our pressing and out of the ball shape looked good/better.

Happy, onwards and upwards.
 
The reason for yesterday's good performance is that Ten Hag finally has the majority of the players technically able to execute his philosophy and style of play.
We can't play the way he likes us to play with Mctominay, Maguire, Wan Bissaka, Lindelof, Martial, Sancho...
We didn't have technically gifted players up till now in order to execute his instructions (exc Bruno and Shaw )
Martinez, De Light, Bruno, Amad, Kobbie, Mount, Zirkzee etc are all technically very good, they know how to play and keep the ball at their feet.
We will get better and better as the season goes on, as we can clearly see what they are trying to do.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.