I see some of us are still overreacting to pre season as per usual.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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Yes, I hold the view that most of the players on the books for United, as of 7/27/24, do not suit ETH’s tactics. I am not willing to demean ETH by characterizing him as clueless. He is responsible for the buy of Antony and I doubt you will find a single poster here who would argue that he was a brilliant buy. I like Mount but questions remain as to why we bought him. Martinez was a great buy, but questions remain about his ability to remain fit. Onana was a good buy in terms of the tactics ETH is trying to unleash, but he’s far from a top shot-stopper.
I don’t even get why people still watch pre season games, they’re so awful, let alone read so much into it. Apart from seeing the kids play a bit, there’s so little to be gained from watching.
Huge season for him. Been very publicly backed and given a good football structure to support him. If we are struggling by Xmas he will be gone. INEOS are ruthless and they already making staff redundancy’s
Reading these last pages you would think we played badly with poorly executed tactics. But no, I‘ve watched the game and we were the better side until Hojlund and Yoro came off.
These games are not ‚meaningless‘, but important to test young players and to ramp up intensity so we are ready to perform at the highest level in the first PL game.
These games are not ‚meaningless‘, but important to test young players and to ramp up intensity so we are ready to perform at the highest level in the first PL game.
Yes, but constantly calling him out after every game is really not healthy for the fans or the manager. If the club has given him time, shouldnt we? Do you think everyone expects him to change everything right from July. I think we will need at least 5 months to bring any different philosophy to the club and I can tell you that no one is going to be patient if we take the approach of the above mentioned person.
If ETH is winning games, or if not, the performances are at least to the standard most of us expect from the club, those sets of fans won't be calling for his head. The fans deserved an incredible amount better than what this manager served up last season.
I believe that Man Utd has been one of the most patient fans in the world believing that by being patient somehow you can get another SAF.
Having said that calling for ETH’s head after a friendly match is nuts.
You see, that's completely laughable. This is ETH's third season in charge now and you believe it should take 5 months to see a philosophy?
There is one and it won‘t change 5 months from now.
It is sad that you think it is laugable. But you do not seem to understand what team dynamics we have. Last year was a cluster feck. If any of you think a couple of signings here and there and we will change the way we play, then that is not going to happen. New management, new coaches, new players. Things will take time.
United supporters and their blind faith in managers is easily the weirdest thing in football.
Has been backed? I still don't see players that are able to play the way he wants to play. If he is left with Maguire and Casemiro to play against Fulham then I'm expecting the exact same football as last year.
I agree. Ten Hag has had a lot of bad luck, but there's a huge question mark over whether he's ever going to be good enough. Last seasons performance justifies the scepticism.
I think the main reason he's still here is a combination of not being able to get the key appointments in earlier and INEOS not being overly keen on any of the alternatives available. Taking up the option was sensible, rather than him looking like a dead man even before the season starts, but he's not been backed.
Pre-season means nothing, but if we start poorly and the same problems are evident as they were last year, he's going to be under massive pressure. He didn't come across as a man who dealt with it well last year either.
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Ten Hag constantly has potshots at his critics (perhaps he’s entitled to) and as fans we should give him unquestioned loyalty for 5 more months in the hope that he gets things right (as ridiculous as it sounds)? No thanks, no club operates like this with their managers. If you cannot take the heat at the highest level, then you’re not good enough anyway.
And who am I shitting on then? All I am doing is explaining the realities.
I don't think there exists a set of fans for a major club who'd provide what you want them to. This is to be the third full season he's been here, if it's poor again then he's going to be heavily scrutinized, as is their right.
He is not a good fit. I can't provide the right (let alone a perfect) candidate, but our man clearly isn't. I believe he will be out before Christmas, hopefully rendering every back and forth as useless.
What's all this about waiting till Christmas? I want him to do well, but he's had time, and last season was fundamentally bad, right from the Wolves game.
If the first 3 games are like that, then I’ll want us to move fast. If after 10 games were not top five, then I’ll still want us to move fast.
Ideally, he starts setting the team up so we don't give up 20 shots a game. Once Martinez is playing, we should look better, but he needs to improve the midfield.
If the first 3 games are like that, then I’ll want us to move fast. If after 10 games were not top five, then I’ll still want us to move fast.
Ideally, he starts setting the team up so we don't give up 20 shots a game. Once Martinez is playing, we should look better, but he needs to improve the midfield.
My opinion hasn't changed. We either hit the start of the season positively, without dozens of shots conceded each game, and playing with an actual midfield or he should be punted. He gets two months and that's it for me.
We can say that the Glazers, Murtough, etc failed him and made mistakes but... If we can all agree that the previous regime made the wrong choice with practically every decision they ever made then it's possible they were also wrong about Ten Hag.
We can say that the Glazers, Murtough, etc failed him and made mistakes but... If we can all agree that the previous regime made the wrong choice with practically every decision they ever made then it's possible they were also wrong about Ten Hag.
There's been positivity around for a few months now following Fa Cup win, with new staff coming in and hopefully moving club into right direction. Still, won't be surprised if same problems occur as last season and ten Hag gets sacked by Christmas. Which wouldn't be bad if there are quality replacements available by then.
And do feel club made right decision by keeping ten Hag and extending his contract until 2026. There weren't outstanding candidates available (Tuchel probably doesn't fit the profile in several ways) and they showed him backing. If he doesn't deliver, goodbye. Same as with previous managers (who also got bouns 6 months imo).
And do feel club made right decision by keeping ten Hag and extending his contract until 2026. There weren't outstanding candidates available (Tuchel probably doesn't fit the profile in several ways) and they showed him backing. If he doesn't deliver, goodbye. Same as with previous managers (who also got bouns 6 months imo).
Which ones, apart from Sancho, who’s opinion holds little weight?
Be interested to know if you don’t mind sharing.
I have no inside info, but my general impression is that the majority of them respect him.
No inside info here. He seems to be well respected, but when the results are bad it's only normal that doubt emerges. Players at the end of the day are like us, it's only logical that some in the dressing room are vocal supporters, and some have doubt. Ultimately he needs to earn their trust, and this will happen through results. That's why I think a good start is crucial after last season.
Bingo. Like with last season, it looks like it’ll just be Mainoo again who can keep it under pressure. We’re not really heavily linked with players who excel in congested midfield spaces.
At the end of the day, ETH’s football vision for us is extremely disappointing. I just hope it doesn’t set us back significantly with the next manager again having to repair things.
Yeah same. I don't think injuries will fly as an excuse either assuming he has a decent squad selection available. The fact that Yoro isn't available to start the season can't be used as an excuse for conceding 20 shots a game.
Ugarte does just fine under pressure and Mainoo backups we've been linked to like Rios, Rabiot and Fofana who all seem to be fine as well when carrying the ball evading the press.
Shaw will be back, Dalot is fine, we signed Yoro and we're signing Mazraoui. The technical level of the squad is being improved, no question about it. Ten Hag deserves blame for some things but if the signings INEOS and Ashworth make don't look the part, then they can't push the blame on to the manager or convoluted processes anymore.
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If you read what I said, you'll note I was drawing comparison between how we looked through games last pre-season, and the season that followed. The point I'm making is that stylistically, the pre-season was a good indicator of how we'd look, results aside.
I agree with you that it wasn't open season on our backline against Arsenal, nor has it been that way since match day 36 or so last season. But we still exhibit poor build up in our own and middle thirds, which I suspect we'll continue to see into the season.
Exactly this, I just avoid them and catch up on brief highlights where I want to.
The elephant in the room.
I'm in the same boat as you. First couple of months are huge. If we're still shit, and hearing the same old excuses, then get rid.
That’s a really minimal expectation as well. For example, if we got Ole in tomorrow I’d be confident we would play with a midfield and not concede 20 shots a game. The fact we are still uncertain about it, with a manager who has been in place over 2 years and is still highly regarded by many on this forum, is fairly mind boggling.
What we should really be expecting is a team demonstrating a clear style of play, all comfortable with what their roles are in the team, confidently breaking down the opposition. We should be seeing the benefits of top coaching. I don’t see that as an unreasonable expectation but I’d be very surprised if that’s what we actually see.
It is going to be a tough year for Ten Hag and United.
It is obvious that fans expect more from him and the team and rightfully so, last year wasn`t impressive, a trophy didn`t change that.
However, there were clear reasons why, there was a lot of tumultuous situations of the field and a lot of injuries.
Looking for the possibilities for this year it is important to be fair in what you can reasonably expect. Even with all United are spending and have spent, how does the squad compare to those of the other top teams? Youth has come through, which is really important, but it is hard to get players in who are of the level of the top players of clubs like City, Arsenal and Liverpool especially. Why would they go for United right now? It has to be a gradual improvement. Supporters won't have the patience for that maybe, but the board has to.
I hope Ten Hag can make the most of it. I feel he has shown in several matches he can get the tactics right, but it is not what he had envisioned when he came in for sure. It is constantly having to find a solution away from his philosophy.
I`m very curious, I feel a solid place in the top 4 for now would have to be the ambition. From there you can see where you stand. I think the key thing I want to see is good football. That is the gradual improvement that can pave the way forward. That will make it easier to attract the players you need.
I`m an Ajax fan and I realise how hard it is to have to calm your expectations. Unrealistic expectations isn`t going to help the team. Not Ten Hag, but not Manchester United as a whole either. The new trainer would inherit the same situation. It takes time to make up ground again, especially because Man City isn`t dropping the ball. They are reaping the benefits of being the best team by getting the right players.
It is obvious that fans expect more from him and the team and rightfully so, last year wasn`t impressive, a trophy didn`t change that.
However, there were clear reasons why, there was a lot of tumultuous situations of the field and a lot of injuries.
Looking for the possibilities for this year it is important to be fair in what you can reasonably expect. Even with all United are spending and have spent, how does the squad compare to those of the other top teams? Youth has come through, which is really important, but it is hard to get players in who are of the level of the top players of clubs like City, Arsenal and Liverpool especially. Why would they go for United right now? It has to be a gradual improvement. Supporters won't have the patience for that maybe, but the board has to.
I hope Ten Hag can make the most of it. I feel he has shown in several matches he can get the tactics right, but it is not what he had envisioned when he came in for sure. It is constantly having to find a solution away from his philosophy.
I`m very curious, I feel a solid place in the top 4 for now would have to be the ambition. From there you can see where you stand. I think the key thing I want to see is good football. That is the gradual improvement that can pave the way forward. That will make it easier to attract the players you need.
I`m an Ajax fan and I realise how hard it is to have to calm your expectations. Unrealistic expectations isn`t going to help the team. Not Ten Hag, but not Manchester United as a whole either. The new trainer would inherit the same situation. It takes time to make up ground again, especially because Man City isn`t dropping the ball. They are reaping the benefits of being the best team by getting the right players.
The most sensible take i've read is just and wait and see how the first few months progress and take it from there; bitching and moaning about preseason is a bit weird, especially when half the squad are youth players at this point.
I'm sure EtH knows he's on thin ice but the two trophies in two years and the new ownership situation has given him a bit of leeway. Let's just see how it goes and if we're not showing clear signs of improving then get rid. Until then he should have complete support.
I'm sure EtH knows he's on thin ice but the two trophies in two years and the new ownership situation has given him a bit of leeway. Let's just see how it goes and if we're not showing clear signs of improving then get rid. Until then he should have complete support.
Clean slate FC
A debate on ETH’s time here could be an endless, exhausting one but I don’t think it’s fair to point to fans and call them out for not supporting him and to say that he deserves a better group of fans. For what he has shown here, the support he has got from our fan base has been absolutely immense. Successful managers, and I don’t think he has been one so far, usually don’t get the extent of overwhelming support he has got.
I’m almost certain that he gets full season regardless of results and where we are headed, and we will re-assess him at the end of year taking into consideration everything that may have impacted results/performance like we did last year. I don’t think we are going to make any crucial decisions mid-season.
We haven’t improved the team this offseason yet. Unless we are able to conclude some business between now and end of Aug, I don’t think we should be expecting major success though.
So, just to be clear, ETH needs at least five months to instill a new philosophy for what is his team?
He isn't a new manager.
I see our midfield rotation of Bruno, Mainoo, Mount (only 3 good enough) and then see Casemiro, Eriksen, McT, maybe Collyer/Hannibal.....I have very little hope for our season. We need a proper DM and another CM to rotate with Mainoo. Which is not happening. That's where I am.
Really he was given the best possible backing? That’s comedy
There’s no way he’ll still be here by the end of the season if we’re mid table by Christmas, playing poorly and losing against teams we should be beating. If that happens the pressure on the club will be huge and Ineos will respond to that pressure by replacing the manager.
Keeping his job after last season is a massive backing, if you think otherwise well alright then.
Until top 4 isn’t possible. He’ll still be here. Worse case scenario, he gets sacked early and RVN takes over till end of season.
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