Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[VP89]

The main issue wasn't there as he played 2 midfielders which is great. If he's realised this is important then that is good.

We still pressed totally ineffectively, still only looked able to create chances with long balls or transitions that we didn't create very well, still didn't create enough passing options for our players on the ball other than a couple of instances.

We pressed extremely well and very effectively until Hojlund came off. Hannibal was extremely poor on and off the ball, which gave Arsenal a lot more control in playing out.

Then of course you give arsenal some dues in showing conviction when they got that control back, but I'm not going suggest we are tactically the same as last season (that's BS), or that Ten hag suddenly won't make it past a couple months because we lost 2-1 to Arsenal. The winning goal of which had nothing to do with a bad press or open play two academy kids showing poor defending on Martinelli.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

We pressed extremely well and very effectively until Hojlund came off. Hannibal was extremely poor on and off the ball, which gave Arsenal a lot more control in playing out

Now it sounds like you didn't watch the game. (Not the Hannibal part he was rubbish and playing him up front was ridiculous).

 

[VP89]

Now it sounds like you didn't watch the game.

Feel free to show me how I'm wrong. We had a much better spell than Arsenal when Hojlund was on. We then had a disjointed front press with Hannibal up top. And naturally, more struggling periods when a raft of kids entered in the second half with players one foot out the club.

Tactically we were not showing the Same issues as last season where we constantly looked open and compromised our back line.

 

[DWelbz19]

Said in another thread but this was the risk of keeping him. He needs to have an absolute storming season (which United are in no way prepared to have) or he’s going to get stomped on after every negative thing by fed up fans or media who know he’s vulnerable. We all know he was a defeat against city from being sacked.

Just one defeat in the opening games and the FA Cup win will be an afterthought and finishing 8th will be at the forefront of everyone’s mind again

Which is very fair, no? Him staying after breaking so many negative records is pretty unprecedented for a club of this size. If the tactics and the results don’t change much he’s on his last legs for sure.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

Feel free to show me how I'm wrong. We had a much better spell than Arsenal when Hojlund was on. We then had a disjointed front press with Hannibal up top. And naturally, more struggling periods when a raft of kids entered in the second half with players one foot out the club.

Tactically we were not showing the Same issues as last season where we constantly looked open and compromised our back line.

I don't have a recording of the match, feel free to go back and find one.

That was one of a number of tactical issues last season.

 

[Globule]

We pressed extremely well and very effectively until Hojlund came off. Hannibal was extremely poor on and off the ball, which gave Arsenal a lot more control in playing out.

Then of course you give arsenal some dues in showing conviction when they got that control back, but I'm not going suggest we are tactically the same as last season (that's BS), or that Ten hag suddenly won't make it past a couple months because we lost 2-1 to Arsenal. The winning goal of which had nothing to do with a bad press or open play two academy kids showing poor defending on Martinelli.

There are a few posts saying he won't last the season, and there will be plenty of people that feel that way. But it's not because we lost to Arsenal in a friendly, and phrasing it that way removes all context of last season.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

Which is very fair, no? Him staying after breaking so many negative records is pretty unprecedented for a club of this size. If the tactics and the results don’t change much he’s on his last legs for sure.

Nah we all have to plaster huge smiles on our face and just chant "The FA Cup" over and over with glazed over eyes. Shaving your head to better resemble he who can't be criticised is also encouraged.

 

[VP89]

There are a few posts saying he won't last the season, and there will be plenty of people that feel that way. But it's not because we lost to Arsenal in a friendly, and phrasing it that way removes all context of last season.

The arsenal loss kickstarted over the top moans and made up reasoning insinuating nothing changed tactically.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

Which is very fair, no? Him staying after breaking so many negative records is pretty unprecedented for a club of this size. If the tactics and the results don’t change much he’s on his last legs for sure.

Of course it’s fair enough. The actual decision makers were a day away from sacking him, so clearly a significant amount of supporters are going to have drawn the same conclusion that he isn’t good enough.

The “new contract” for him turned out not to be a new contract at all, but just a trigger of his +12 month option. It’s clear they’re not 100% behind him still.

I’m sure 90+% of people here would love him to win the league this season and stick two fingers up at everyone if he wants to. But I find it hard to fully back him when it’s clear this isn’t going to last much longer anyway

 

[Globule]

The arsenal loss kickstarted over the top moans and made up reasoning insinuating nothing changed tactically.

But again, it didn't kickstart anything.

We were absolutely god awful last season and in a lot of people's eyes (mine included) Ten Hag should have got the sack.

That doesn't get forgotten just because he didn't.

He's under a lot of scrutiny, but he deserves to be because he's yet to prove he's the right man for the job.

 

[VP89]

But again, it didn't kickstart anything.

We were absolutely god awful last season and in a lot of people's eyes (mine included) Ten Hag should have got the sack.

That doesn't get forgotten just because he didn't.

He's under a lot of scrutiny, but he deserves to be because he's yet to prove he's the right man for the job.

You seem to be mistaking scrutiny for whinging.
Making up things like claiming we were tactically no different to last season is not scrutiny.

And I didn't say his last season would be forgotten, I'm just saying we have whingers coming out literally making up things to be angry about when we lost 2-1 to arsenal in a game we fielded a bucket load of players who will likely play no part of next season.

We also have posters in the Yoro thread trying to pin his injury on ten hag.

This isn't scrutiny, it's affiliating anything negative with a manager because of anger he didn't get sacked.

 

[Leftback99]

Written off 2 friendly-games after the FA Cup win, never change Red Cafe.

Spot the odd game out.

 

[Sarni]

We probably won’t even play one game with Collyer, Casemiro and Mount as our starting midfield during proper season, let alone the group that was on the pitch in second half who will likely never play together again. Not to mention some of them will probably not even start a PL game at United in their career.

 

[CM]

Of course it’s fair enough. The actual decision makers were a day away from sacking him, so clearly a significant amount of supporters are going to have drawn the same conclusion that he isn’t good enough.

The “new contract” for him turned out not to be a new contract at all, but just a trigger of his +12 month option. It’s clear they’re not 100% behind him still.

I’m sure 90+% of people here would love him to win the league this season and stick two fingers up at everyone if he wants to. But I find it hard to fully back him when it’s clear this isn’t going to last much longer anyway

It's also hard to get behind when there are very few redeeming qualities in the way we play. It's far easier to stay patient with a team/coach when they're capable of playing exciting football or showing signs of improvement.

Last season was an unmitigated failure in that sense. We were breaking records for all the wrong reasons, awful to watch, easy to play through and showed no signs of improvement. It's a lethal combination.

 

[astracrazy]

People moaning for the sake of moaning. Played well in the first half, second half full of academy players.

 

[Amsterdam Devil]

I think Ineos should have replaced Ten Hag in the summer but it gets a bit tiresome to discuss him after every single thing we do. It’s pre season, we won’t win the league when we play a good game in pre season and not everything is terrible when we play a bad game in pre season. Pre season is to get the team back, get them fit, train hard, maybe try some academy kids to see how they do and get everyone on the same page. Most important thing of playing games in pre season is to get the players fit, not to win. Don’t get too high, don’t get too low.

 

[MadDogg]

Not sure why people are comparing our style and tactics to last season. So far in these three preseason games we've gone back to ETH's first season (which is also largely how we played under Ole), not his second season when he decided to put his own insane spin on things.

That doesn't mean we're playing well (we didn't throughout most of his first season either), but we haven't got that ridiculously open midfield that was a guaranteed failure like we had last season. So the formation and shape of the team is something that can work; now it comes down to individual quality and proper coaching. ETH so far has done worse with the latter than I would have liked, but I'm giving him somewhat of a fresh start this season to prove himself one way or the other.

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

I think Ineos should have replaced Ten Hag in the summer but it gets a bit tiresome to discuss him after every single thing we do. It’s pre season, we won’t win the league when we play a good game in pre season and not everything is terrible when we play a bad game in pre season. Pre season is to get the team back, get them fit, train hard, maybe try some academy kids to see how they do and get everyone on the same page. Most important thing of playing games in pre season is to get the players fit, not to win. Don’t get too high, don’t get too low.

Pre season means absolutely nothing. There was one where we beat all the top euro teams and we all thought it was gonna be a great season and it wasn’t.

The only thing it’s good for is fitness and losing those two was a kick in the bollox. Seriously WTF is going on! Did United sh*t on some sacred graveyard or something.

 

[LordSpud]

I only watched the first half last night but felt we played some very good stuff. The Hojlund and Yoro injuries killed us with no real backups (Hannibal is gash) and so it is what it is.

 

[wolvored]

I wasvTH out, but you can’t judge on pre season when half the squad is missing and kids are playing. I think he can be judged on style of play etc after about 5/6 games after everyone is back and new players have bedded in. We will probably sign at least a couple more and some in the tour party will be gone.
He has been given virtually a whole new coaching staff, he must have hand picked, due to the Dutch connection.
In a nutshell mid September will be his crossroad Will he be on the right path?

 

[Drainy]

I only watched the first half last night but felt we played some very good stuff. The Hojlund and Yoro injuries killed us with no real backups (Hannibal is gash) and so it is what it is.

Yes and should be noted that we were already playing without 6 guaranteed starters who improve us, and were missing 3 immediate backups (though 1 I feel like they shouldn't be counted)

 

[flameinthesun]

Good first half. Was mainly even but I'd say we looked more dangerous. The press was good and had some very nice passages of passing that cut through arsenal. Rasmus going off kind of threw off the press. Then second half it was basically our Under 23s vs a stronger Arsenal so went how we expected. All in all a good game.

 

[thisisnottaken1]

Ah brings back great memories. Looking forward to a new season of the same nonsense. It’s funny how we all wanted Ole sacked because we didn’t have a tactical identity one could fall in love with and we replaced him with this fellow who is not all that different in this regard.

Yup. I’m tired of the fact that we still play this shitty Brexit football.

 

[thisisnottaken1]

Maybe heroin is a better example. At least with steroids there's a positive impact on performance.

I’d say it’s more like meth.

 

[Redstain]

It's extremely naive to assume that pre-season performances won't have an impact on the upcoming competitive games in the league. I said the same thing last season and predicted the team finishing below par due to the summer additions which didn't really move the needle.

A poor pre-season will guarantee a poor opening to the first 10 games of the league campaign. Last season was more concurrent of bad tactical organization and preparation as opposed to injuries. Availability to key personnel had an influence but the bigger predetermining factor was the instructions.

After last season this club needed to fly out of pre-season to build confidence and momentum. There are some testing fixtures which will come around in the blink of an eye and it's not looking good thus far.

 

[Blood Mage]

Still think the way he sets us up and makes us train contributes massively to the injuries we pick up.

 

[lex talionis]

This makes no sense.

Sure it does. The basic idea, to borrow a well known metaphor, is to learn how to crawl before you walk.

Yes, we did win some games last season but the majority of those wins could have very easily resulted in dropped points. We all want to win games in style, but if it came down to one or the other we have to win games even if it comes at the expense of style. Hopefully it won’t come down to that but given that the squad we have now is largely what it was last season we should not expect how we play to be that much different, but what we can expect — let’s say demand — that we’ll defend better and nick in a few more goals. But free flowing footballl…don’t get your hopes up too high at least for this season.

 

[lex talionis]

I disagree a bit. Implementing a style and getting consistency with performances lays a decent foundation that can built upon by getting recruitment right to improve on weaknesses within that style.

Grinding out results while playing poorly is short termism.

It's not unconditional. I'd prefer to see us playing well, even at the cost of CL qualification, but that doesn't mean results don't matter and I'd be happy with us finishing 10th, say.

It's a balance, but for me it's more weighted towards performances and style. Unless you finish first, league position alone shouldn't be the most important measure of progress. We've had high league finishes today ultimately mean very little.

Responding to you and the previous post, our dilemma is that we don’t have the players who are suited to what ETH is trying to have the players do. That’s beginning to change with players like Yoro, but looking at the squad only Onana and Martinez are perfectly suited to ETH’s tactics.

 

[Amsterdam Devil]

A poor pre-season will guarantee a poor opening to the first 10 games of the league campaign. Last season was more concurrent of bad tactical organization and preparation as opposed to injuries. Availability to key personnel had an influence but the bigger predetermining factor was the instructions.

After last season this club needed to fly out of pre-season to build confidence and momentum. There are some testing fixtures which will come around in the blink of an eye and it's not looking good thus far.

Do you have some general evidence for this? Or is it just your opinion or feeling? And not just 1 or 2 teams that did well and started well or did bad and started bad. But some real numerical evidence over a lot of teams and pre seasons?

Ofcourse winning or losing in pre season could shape confidence or team feeling. But the goal of pre season games is totally different (fitness) than games in the reguar season (winning).

And that’s not to defend TH or anything, I think Ineos should have replaced TH in the summer. But it is not really fair to judge him on some pre season games with the goal to get players fit and a lot of players still away.

 

[Rockets Redglare]

It's extremely naive to assume that pre-season performances won't have an impact on the upcoming competitive games in the league. I said the same thing last season and predicted the team finishing below par due to the summer additions which didn't really move the needle.

A poor pre-season will guarantee a poor opening to the first 10 games of the league campaign. Last season was more concurrent of bad tactical organization and preparation as opposed to injuries. Availability to key personnel had an influence but the bigger predetermining factor was the instructions.

After last season this club needed to fly out of pre-season to build confidence and momentum. There are some testing fixtures which will come around in the blink of an eye and it's not looking good thus far.

We beat Arsenal comfortably in pre-season last year, and under Van Gaal we battered everyone. It’s irrelevant.

 

[Max_United]

Responding to you and the previous post, our dilemma is that we don’t have the players who are suited to what ETH is trying to have the players do. That’s beginning to change with players like Yoro, but looking at the squad only Onana and Martinez are perfectly suited to ETH’s tactics.

So you are saying that the vast majority of the players we signed in his first two seasons (with him having a significant say over transfers, or at the very least a veto), many of whom had a history with him like Antony - do not suit his tactics? Isn’t the implication that he is a bit clueless then?

I mean maybe you could argue that he does not have good talent id and chooses players that fit his tactics but are not good enough (and that it should not be his job). But if he pushes us to sign the players who he knows well but who do not even fit his tactics - either he is clueless or his tactics is too specific so that too few players can succeed in it.

 

[Redstain]

Do you have some general evidence for this? Or is it just your opinion or feeling? And not just 1 or 2 teams that did well and started well or did bad and started bad. But some real numerical evidence over a lot of teams and pre seasons?

Ofcourse winning or losing in pre season could shape confidence or team feeling. But the goal of pre season games is totally different (fitness) than games in the reguar season (winning).

And that’s not to defend TH or anything, I think Ineos should have replaced TH in the summer. But it is not really fair to judge him on some pre season games with the goal to get players fit and a lot of players still away.

It's a prediction, stated as much last year contributing to the seasons expectation thread last season. United performed poorly in pre-season and the foundations that did bear some resemblance of success Erik chose not to persist with (Sancho as a false 9 or the double pivot).

For a team that is largely inconsistent the goal of pre-season should be to win and to amalgamate an identity in what the team is going to do over a prolonged period. There seems to be a double standard however because as we have witnessed in the past if a new manager starts the position when the season is underway and does poorly it's often stressed amongst the fanbase that the manager needs a pre-season or fresh start to get things established.

Whereas, on the other hand, when we have a manager who on current form is demonstrating consecutive below average pre-seasons, it's being downplayed. The rhetoric around fitness is viable but the most important element that rightly puts Erik under scrutiny is the fact that United throughout his tenure are an inconsistent team. To assume that the penny will mysteriously drop at the blowing of the whistle in the opening game is fantasy for me.

 

[Cnaiür urs Skiötha]

I have not watched the game but what kind of style change are people expecting when in the last and this summer (so far) we got 1 goalkeeper, 2 strikers, a young defender and some kind of back-up 10/midfielder and we kept our manager.
Not really transformative.

 

[Amsterdam Devil]

For a team that is largely inconsistent the goal of pre-season should be to win and to amalgamate an identity in what the team is going to do over a prolonged period. There seems to be a double standard however because as we have witnessed in the past if a new manager starts the position when the season is underway and does poorly it's often stressed amongst the fanbase that the manager needs a pre-season or fresh start to get things established.

Yes a pre season where fitness and training hard is much more important than the results of games, where in a regular season there is almost no room for normal training because they play every three days and results of games is much more important than training hard. So yes pre season is very important, but not for results in games, different goals than regular season. Seems very logical to me.

And I have no idea if we start well when the competition starts, as I said I think they should have replaced Ten Hag, but while he’s here I will support him. I just thought it was a bit strange you called others extremely naive when they explained why results in pre season are not important.

 

[Someone]

The Arsenal game was meaningless. It's silly to judge ETH based on pre season friendlies anyway. Having said that, I think it's crucial for ETH to have a good start to the season. I know it feels like a fresh start with a new regime and all, but ETH isn't a new manager that needs time. There's existing doubt among some fans, the media, and certainly some players. I'm in the ETH in camp, but if we start the season badly, the knives will be truly out.

 

[sunama]

The arsenal loss kickstarted over the top moans and made up reasoning insinuating nothing changed tactically.

We were dreadful last season. Nobody will argue against that.
The odds are that we will continue to be dreadful.
ETH is not a newbie manager who is learning on the job, and whose learning curve is steep.
He has been in the management game for a while, so what you see now, is pretty much how he will continue to perform as a manager.
Personally, after 3 years, I think the EPL isn't for him and he should look to ply his trade in another league where he will likely do pretty well.
The EPL is a different animal.

 

[TrivelaDeBruno]

We were dreadful last season. Nobody will argue against that.
The odds are that we will continue to be dreadful.
ETH is not a newbie manager who is learning on the job, and whose learning curve is steep.
He has been in the management game for a while, so what you see now, is pretty much how he will continue to perform as a manager.
Personally, after 3 years, I think the EPL isn't for him and he should look to ply his trade in another league where he will likely do pretty well.
The EPL is a different animal.

When was his third year?

 

[adkb]

I don’t understand?

What do you expect to happen? Everyone knows how close he came to being sacked and I think most people know he won’t be here in 10 months time.

I like the guy, I want him to defy all doubt. But this sort of reaction is inevitable when you’re keeping a manager who was a hair away from the sack and has had a pretty rotten 18 months overall.

This is a miserable way to look at the manager. And frankly he deserves better

 

[Judas]

This is a miserable way to look at the manager. And frankly he deserves better

Not really? He's been given the biggest possible backing by the club, but he rightfully has plenty of doubters, and trust to be earned with plenty of fans. Most want him to be a success, but that doesn't mean positivity just for the sake of it.

I expect a better season than the last one, but in truth that should be a given after what we witnessed.

 

[Juice Juiced]

This is a miserable way to look at the manager. And frankly he deserves better

Fans deserve better football.