I don't think he means in it like that. Obviously, we have to see vast improvement in our pressing tactics, our rest defence and our defensive transitions. The thing about grinding out results is that, as a remnant of the Mourinho/Solskjaer period, our "safety zone" has always been to sit back and hit on the counter by playing route one football. Even ETH, in his first season, had to quickly throw any "modern" ideas out of the window and revert to the norm. The problem is that this type of football rarely gets you anywhere nowadays. United, in particular, can only go as far as a top-four finish. Afterward, it always fell apart, and we got frustrated because we fail to realize that this isn't the basis to build anything on, but the ceiling of the team in this era of football. So, IF we show signs of a progressive and cohesive side, perhaps we should show some lenience, especially since it's not easy for us - due to past sins - to shift players and radically change the shape of the squad in one or two summers.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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I don't think he means in it like that. Obviously, we have to see vast improvement in our pressing tactics, our rest defence and our defensive transitions. The thing about grinding out results is that, as a remnant of the Mourinho/Solskjaer period, our "safety zone" has always been to sit back and hit on the counter by playing route one football. Even ETH, in his first season, had to quickly throw any "modern" ideas out of the window and revert to the norm. The problem is that this type of football rarely gets you anywhere nowadays. United, in particular, can only go as far as a top-four finish. Afterward, it always fell apart, and we got frustrated because we fail to realize that this isn't the basis to build anything on, but the ceiling of the team in this era of football. So, IF we show signs of a progressive and cohesive side, perhaps we should show some lenience, especially since it's not easy for us - due to past sins - to shift players and radically change the shape of the squad in one or two summers.
I disagree a bit. Implementing a style and getting consistency with performances lays a decent foundation that can built upon by getting recruitment right to improve on weaknesses within that style.
Grinding out results while playing poorly is short termism.
It's not unconditional. I'd prefer to see us playing well, even at the cost of CL qualification, but that doesn't mean results don't matter and I'd be happy with us finishing 10th, say.
It's a balance, but for me it's more weighted towards performances and style. Unless you finish first, league position alone shouldn't be the most important measure of progress. We've had high league finishes today ultimately mean very little.
If we’d had a clear idea after Fergie of how we wanted the team to play and a sound plan to implement it both short and long term including transfer strategy (players and managers) we would’ve most likely been competing for the title the last five years. Bad leadership and the “we’re United”-entitled mentality have held us back so we’re only starting that process now.
Will we go for pure DM or more of a hybrid?
I'm not sure we can find anyone that could play alone at #6 in this system, to be honest.
But there's nothing wrong with a double pivot, we just need to find someone who complements Mainoo as a partner IMO. Ugarte would not be my first choice, far from it, but I guess he improves the current side. I'd prefer Fofana or Zubimendi to him, from the players we've been linked to recently.
EDIT: Rodri has been playing in a double-pivot as well for years now, and both him and City have been doing very well for themselves. Better than ever before. So there really is nothing wrong with providing some protection for your defensive midfielder.
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I've realised for me that the number one attribute of a United manager is their willingness to work with youth. EtH ticks that box.
You don't get trophies or extra points for style though. The entire objective of the game is to score more goals than the opposition. If you are not doing that more often than not you are not "playing well" IMO, regardless of how you look to the eye.
Feel like we need Ugarte and Zubimendi/Fofana as they both offer different midfield profiles
I'm not asking for us to be peak tika-taka Barcelona, and I'm not saying we should be looking to play pretty football for the sake of it.
I want to see that progress is being made towards playing a defined and effective style.
There were matches we won last season while looking absolutely god awful. If we get 2nd playing like that I wouldn't be happy and it's happily see Ten Hag get the boot.
But if we finish 5th while looking like our performances and style have improved (significantly) I'd probably have more confidence that he's building something.
Every manager we've had since SAF retired ticks that box
It's way more common that teams winning trophies play attractive, or at least very fluent, football though.
Yeah, it goes together. You can fluke a good season playing random football, but it's unlikely. For United, if Ten Hag succeeds in making his team play well (up to and including scoring goals; not sterile pretty football), then a good league finish is very likely.
The press conference today was a complete joke. They’ve already started questions to undermine Erik’s position in the club.
Do you think you are trusted?
Are you in a strong position?
Are you capable of showing some league form?
Will Ruud be helpful to you?
If Ineos are about the 1% gains, one of the things they need to do is get the Liverpool fans who pretend to cover United and come to these conferences must be banned!
Do you think you are trusted?
Are you in a strong position?
Are you capable of showing some league form?
Will Ruud be helpful to you?
If Ineos are about the 1% gains, one of the things they need to do is get the Liverpool fans who pretend to cover United and come to these conferences must be banned!
Fair questions after last season. Up to him to prove otherwise.
To be fair, ETH oversaw one of the worst league campaigns the club has had in the PL era. He should logically be under scrutiny and have no prove himself.
We could argue about Mourinho over a couple of beers. The others I'd accept.
That’s true but he’s answered these already and it’s a rehash of the same questions.
It’s pre season and a lot of questions should be focussed more on way forward with the club now I would imagine.
He has to prove himself for sure, but the fact that he has dealt with issue after issue at the club is also true. Hopefully with new management, the club sagas will reduce and others will step in to manage that.
Exactly. The fact we've done it the other way around is a exception, plus not a good indication for future success. Still, gives the manager a life line and takes off some pressure so the jury is still out.
Theres plenty of fans who love this sort of click bait journalist sh*te.
This has little to do with the pre season friendly vs Arsenal, but feel I must continue to put it out there there that we should not have stuck with this manager. My optimism for the season is down to talents like Hojilund, Garnacho, Amad and Mainoo. Hopefully they manage to continue to develop despite the incoming dire tactics.
ETH doesn't care about keeping the ball.
I'm not sure a team can ever be successful in today's game with a manager who doesn't value keeping the ball.
People who might cite Real Madrid and Ancelotti should realize they're the exception.
I'm not sure a team can ever be successful in today's game with a manager who doesn't value keeping the ball.
People who might cite Real Madrid and Ancelotti should realize they're the exception.
Right now it would be a pleasant suspense if we played well tbh. This transition football obsession is disappointing. This squad has no clue how to control with the ball and unless they learn that, we are going nowhere.
Same old.
It’s so odd. He’s the opposite of what I thought we were getting. I thought if Ineos is backing him they’d demand he play a different way.
Hmm the ones who aren't fond of how he sets up teams would be louder for a couple of days. Those who defend him have such blinkers on that they would very quickly fight back.
"Jesus it's the first game of the season. We started slowly in 07/08. Do I need to remind you this man has won 2 trophies in 2 years?!"
The sort of above whilst watching the worst football we have played in at least 30 years with the most money spent.
Just look at how Arsenal played out of the defence - not that our press was anything remotely close to good. On the other hand, we gladly hoofed the ball up regularly to nowhere through Onana as many of our players are still not trained to deal with pressing. Just bodes badly for the season ahead in terms of style of play.
You're talking about a side that was missing 6 or possibly 7 of its starters and was playing out fine until the shape was disrupted by further changes due to injuries
Ah brings back great memories. Looking forward to a new season of the same nonsense. It’s funny how we all wanted Ole sacked because we didn’t have a tactical identity one could fall in love with and we replaced him with this fellow who is not all that different in this regard.
Having injuries shouldn’t stop the side from following the set style of play a manager wants for the team if this is something they regularly train on as a whole group. There wasn’t even an attempt to try to play out from the back and not hoof it. I could understand it if it was a competitive game where you don’t want to take risks but if we’re not even willing to do it in a pre-season game, then it seems like deliberate intent to play as such.
Also injuries are going to happen during the regular season too - are we going to use that excuse again for style of play? This is something that needs to be drilled across the team and not just something a few first teamers get to do and we need to rely on them to be fit to make it work.
That said, I hope we can see evidence against this in the remaining games.
Not that a pre-season friendly is anything to go by, but it looks like we may have the same problems as last year. A team that occasionally plays well but also frustratingly, switches off at times, result in far too many points dropped through the course of a league season.
I think ETH has a setup for ball progression using the wide players and the 10 to drop in and create overloads but also allows pragmatism to hit it long to gain territory
When you have players who are confident in playing incisive passes and the shape holds well we can play out from the back.
When you lose your shape or have players who aren't as experienced or composed they hit it longer.
We're missing:
Shaw
Martinez
(Lindelof)
Dalot
Mainoo
Bruno
Garnacho
(Zirkzee)
And then lost Hojlund and Yoro in the first half
That's a lot for a squad to not have available and maintain its standards
I think it's pretty obvious, i.e. if you don't have blinkers on, that we are going to be a 'moments' team. The hope is that Martinez, Bruno, Amad, Mainoo, Garmacho etc. will combine to produce enough of them to get us through most games. Anyone looking for good football is going to be massively disappointed.
The injury curse looks set to continue. He's doomed.
Yeah that's very obvious by the fact he has zero desire to sign a high volume controlling midfielder. I will admit we need a DM too but it's worrying he values possession of the ball so little
So is it still Bruno's fault that ETH plays this type of football?
Can't be a top side without keeping a ball in MF.
3 games in and nothing has changed in terms of style of play/structure from last season. 90% of the team still treats the ball like a hot potato and the awful players appear to have gotten worse somehow. Please miss me with the "its not our first team" excuse because style of play and structure is supposed to be consistent regardless of who is on the pitch.
So I expect a similar performance from the team this season if not worse. The only thing that will save him is 2-3 high quality midfielders who are great on the ball being signed between now and the end of the window. Save for that, if this is the squad we ride into the season with, there is only one way this ends.
So I expect a similar performance from the team this season if not worse. The only thing that will save him is 2-3 high quality midfielders who are great on the ball being signed between now and the end of the window. Save for that, if this is the squad we ride into the season with, there is only one way this ends.
I’m glad I’m not watching our pre season games, it doesn’t appear to be lifting anyone’s spirits.
I don’t think he is capable of playing us in a different way. I was hopeful that he would introduce some sort of cohesive football based on possession but to be totally honest, I think it’s beyond him. And that’s the most daming indictment of his football and him as a coach.
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