But the fans who stand by the manager happily slag off all the players and throw them under the bus (calling them bad apples)? So it’s fine to stand by the manager but throw the players under the bus? Or maybe it’s good to hold both of them accountable and be able to criticize them wherever it seems reasonable.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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Nothing like Jose. He whinges for the sake of it and picks fights. ETH is defending himself. He’s been brutally criticised all season despite winning a trophy and having an injured squad all year. He’s aloud to have the last laugh and hit back at some of the criticism
I don't know, you tell me.
Mourinho has criticized the players attitudes, Ole did the same. Ragnick said we need open heart surgery and players were openly disobeying his instructions. We have high ranking jurnos saying that a lot of our players don't feel like following ETH's instructions. We have Sancho openly refuse to train, demanding to be played in only the position he wants and then publicly starting a feud with the manager.
But it's only the manager at fault, right?
The problem aren't just the players, but the culture. Specifically the lack of accountability or responsibility from the players. They only put in a shift when they feel like it, instead of it being a minimum requirement. You can thank Woodward for that. And now ETH is trying to bring some of that back.
However I don't see any criticism for the manager. What I see instead is a group of vultures planning his failures so they can gloat and tell everyone "I told you so".
Doesn't take any planning. It's simply inevitable.
I get that. But let's wait a game or two before we can do that.
It's the summer break ffs. We just won a cup, we are entering muppet season, but instead all we are getting is gloom, gloom and even more gloom. ugh
Just fyi because it seems like you are new around here: your attempts of "putting things in perspective" will not change anything at all. There are enough people who were deeply dissatisfied with our coach and the majority around here will probably agree that the main thing that went for him was that there were no obvious candidates to replace him. We just have to accept the ambivalence around him.
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He's surely not stupid, it has to be better next season he can't keep doing the same thing with the same players and just expect things to work out.
He will surely be more pragmatic
He will surely be more pragmatic
I wouldn't underestimate this man's stubbornness.
Or hopefully, we have a squad more suited to playing front-foot possession football.
Spot on. Deserves to be ignored for a stream of ABU content
Which players?
Dalot, Shaw, Rashford, Lindelof and the departed Martial are the only players who played under both.
Are you suggesting he didn't think he had anything to prove last season and wasn't fired up?
It would be interesting to see the average age of those supporters who are vehemently ten Hag out and will only derive pleasure by telling other fans “I told you so”; and those supporters looking at all the facts and issues surrounding the club and squad last year before critiquing the manager. My educated guess, the former are likely made of up of majority Gen Z’ers, fits the profile.
Is it possession football that Ten Hag wants to implement though?
Yep. I’m suggesting that. After a first successful season. He thought it would be plain sailing. And underestimated his 2nd season.
He doesn’t have a say in that. The question should be is possession football what Wilcox/Ashworth and INEOS want?
Reread the message. It's not just player X, Y or Z, but it's the culture, specifically the lack of accountability. And every time a new player comes in, they just fit right in and the cycle continues: case in point, Sancho is the most recent example.
The reality is, you've seen those given and if it had been I don't think he'd be in a job right now. He's survived by fine margins.
So by that logic we need to get rid of the entire current first team squad in one go to be rid of this culture then yes?
Fair enough mate, you might be right.
Indeed, because it definitely didn't seem like Ten Hag was trying to implement possession based football.
It's incredible, to think we would have been knocked out by a championship side if that goal stood. He would have been sacked the next morning.
Pfft nuance? Only one option is allowed around these parts don't you know?
Either stick by the manager unconditionally or you're a juvenile moaning meltdown melvin who wants the club to fail!
How about the Wan Bissaka penalty? That was nonsense, he had his arm next to his body. It was a fine margin because of a deflected shot and a bs penalty.
But yeah, stuff like that happens and he could have been gone.
Yeah, the word reasonable is key. Ten Hag is getting blamed for anything the Hag out cultits can think of next.
I wonder what tomorrow's instalment will be . Can't wait .....
That "cultist" insult really doesn't make any sense in the context you used it. The "c*lt of the manager" jibe predates ETH and refers to the notion that there is a small subset of fans who treat the manager like a stereotypical c*lt leader - he is always right, can never be questioned, and any alleged shortcomings are handwaved away.
Somebody on the opposite side of the argument by definition can't be a cultist because there is no c*lt leader.
The VAR gods smiled on us the day the Coventry goal was disallowed on a margin that couldn't even be measured by one millimeter. That it allowed righteousness to prevail in the FA Cup final is undeniable, but as you rightly note had we been the victim of that call we'd all be fuming. If VAR can't get it right, and of course it was close but he wasn't offside, then why have VAR?
Not to bring politics into this but even Keir Starmer called out the injustice of the offside call.
You're wrong
Has the c word actually been censored?! I'm as sick of the sight of it as anyone but bloody hell 
Has the c word actually been censored?! I'm as sick of the sight of it as anyone but bloody hell
Censored because it lands.
The manager is at fault, however I haven't seen those criticizing ETH saying only he's at fault and the players aren't.
Regarding the second part, should we be really surprised? ETH has been massively arrogant in dismissing all his critics, and making laughable assertions like "we played the most dynamic football", "number of shots on goal don't concern me" etc. Perhaps if he was a bit more humble and willing to accept some accountability, it'd make it easier for his critics not to jump on his quotes? You can't expect to be combative to your critics and not expect any blowback.
Yes, the caf is that pathetic.Has the c word actually been censored?! I'm as sick of the sight of it as anyone but bloody hell
It was offside. They got a bs penalty too. Looks like media crying about offside helped.
You should create a thread and complain about Coventry goal being disallowed.
Far too reasonable that. A lot of people would rather come in here to just blow of steam.
I get you. No leader, but some behave like cultits in their completely one-sided argumentation (ETH can do no right, every negative outcome is his fault) which is why I turned around the insult. I guess I could think of something else.
that’s a cheerful perspective
He will be gone by november.
So record amount of losses in the club’s history this seasons wasn’t enough for you? Why should someone wait for another few to criticize?
I guarantee he won’t be.
That’s why I keep saying that we need take a cue from Arsenal and focus on 25 and under players, as it’s a long term project and expensive older players will not benefit us much. You can’t sign a Casmeiro and expect him to play this way - he’s never done it, he’s not young enough to change and moreover he’s never really been the kind of midfielder we needed anyway (helping us control games).
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