Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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stefan92 said:
Of course not, you know I often argued that he should be replaced ;)

But I do expect a manager of a top club to back himself to be the best (or at least be able to become the best), it's just the kind of self confidence you should have in that job. So I don't mind him making such statements, I do appreciate it.

And yes they own Nice, but for how long? It's still relatively new and I wouldn't be surprised if it feels for him that they are even newer to the whole football stuff looking at how everything about his position went down recently. If he feels like "that's not the usual football way to do things" I could fully understand it.
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yep. Although them being new also allows them to carry out an evaluation for their own manager.

I really hope that we dont have to change the manager half way through the upcoming season though.
 
Leftback99 said:
From the outside he's on rocky ground with both INEOS and the players. Hard to see it ending well.
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Erm how have you worked that out?

INEOS have just come in and if they thought the relationship is fractured, they would have sacked him.

Secondly, the Athletic reported that they carried one to one meetings with players and were asked about the manager. Then there was the FA cup final showing which actually showed the players are with him.

If the players said..."Ooooo you know what he is rubbish, we dont like him" added to INEOS thinking the relationship is not good, he would have been sacked, not handed a new contract.
 
I have noticed more aggression from EtH in the last few months and he seems to be defending himself a lot more but people were wanting that, they wanted a more forceful personality with the media and he finally seems to be giving some back which I respect him for. If he leaves United i'm pretty sure he'll do well elsewhere.

I'm cautiously optimistic that if we can solve the injury issues and if we bring some players in, we could have a good season. Lots of ifs though.
 
Is it possible to draw some sort of line under the constant back and forth over why we wanted the manager in or out now?
The reasons for and against have been discussed to the point of boredom and a decision has been made. I understand people still want him gone but I does every discussion have to be tempered with assumptions and predictions that it’ll be the same old thing and nothing will change?

It’s not a meltdown but when it’s constant and generally based of past behaviours it can become grating. When the window closes we can assess the window. After 3 months we can assess how new signings have settled. Similarly we can see if a settled team will make a difference to performances.

Nobody has categorically stated that we will definitely do better next season but can we at least see what happens? No blind optimism either or Stan behaviour just live in the I don’t know moments. Maybe I’m naive.
 
ArmaDino said:
Because it is the new norm. Contrary to what you might think the SAF's United doesn't exist anymore. We are currently closer to Totenham than we are to the top. The only thing we have other them is money and history. And as Chelsea has proven, money without the right owners means diddly squat.

Since SAF retired we finished 7th, 4th, 5th, 6th, 2nd, 6th, 3rd, 2nd, 7th, 3rd and 8th. The idea that we were this club that competed on all fronts until ETH came and turned us into a laughing stock doesn't hold up when you compare it to our previous seasons. We finished 7th the season before he took over for God's sake.

The point is we are in the middle of a restructuring process. Our football organization is being overhauled. ETH is building something. Giving him the boot on the back of winning another trophy would be in line with a series of disastrous decision we've done since SAF retired. Thank God we didn't
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6th
 
iato89 said:
Doesnt mean he has to keep his power as is! The DOF and TD will have the final veto on everything, if ETH does like it he can go (no more anthonys)
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They have a veto on anything anyway, no transfer will happen just because a manager wants it to happen. It’s just to prevent club from buying players without manager’s consent.
 
idek2346 said:
I typically do not like to blow things out of proportion, but WOW. INEOS have shot themselves in the foot by announcing ETH stays without having contract terms pre-agreed. This situation has been handled extremely poorly and is their first major mistake.
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Was there an actual announcement from the club?
 
idek2346 said:
I typically do not like to blow things out of proportion, but WOW. INEOS have shot themselves in the foot by announcing ETH stays without having contract terms pre-agreed. This situation has been handled extremely poorly and is their first major mistake.
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How is it a mistake? By all accounts they spoke to Tuchel, Frank, De Zerbi and McKenna. They agreed sporting terms with Tuchel and De Zerbi but Tuchel didn't like the contract and De Zerbi wanted £10m a year so INEOS pulled the plug, therefore, Ten Hag stays out of pure luck more than anything. You can almost guarantee that the terms being offered to Ten Hag on his new deal are less autonomy and lower salary. If he thinks he can do better elsewhere then he should walk at the end of the season when his contract is up and INEOS will have another go at finding the manager they really want.
 
Cassidy said:
But its not the tactic as the piece sets out, the players not following the instructions causes the gap
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That doesn't add up. Clearly this is managers doing if all of McTominay, Mount, or even Mainoo at times performed the same role?
Clearly it's the managers instructions if Bruno suddenly drops deeper pretending he's a midfielder now?

Have the players been following managers instructions in 22/23, but not anymore in 23/24?
 
For the sake of our mental health it's best if we forget about the disastrous season we just endured -- yes, I'm aware of the FA Cup triumph, but I'm also aware that Coventry were brutalized by a wrongly disallowed goal -- and look to the future. We have a strong squad that needs strengthening and that seems to be underway, and we have every reason to believe that after the painful two and a half weeks that ETH endured not sure whether he would be sacked that he will raise his own game as manager in the 24/25 season.
 
lex talionis said:
For the sake of our mental health it's best if we forget about the disastrous season we just endured -- yes, I'm aware of the FA Cup triumph, but I'm also aware that Coventry were brutalized by a wrongly disallowed goal -- and look to the future. We have a strong squad that needs strengthening and that seems to be underway, and we have every reason to believe that after the painful two and a half weeks that ETH endured not sure whether he would be sacked that he will raise his own game as manager in the 24/25 season.
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Hope so too.

(Why “wrongly”?)
 
Borys said:
That doesn't add up. Clearly this is managers doing if all of McTominay, Mount, or even Mainoo at times performed the same role?
Clearly it's the managers instructions if Bruno suddenly drops deeper pretending he's a midfielder now?

Have the players been following managers instructions in 22/23, but not anymore in 23/24?
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Given its talking about the defensive line of the back 4, not sure why you are mentioning said players, maybe read the article
 
Curious to know the number of pages this thread reaches before it is shut down, which would indicate Ten Hag has left or been sacked. 2 seasons, 3000 pages…

Over/under at 5000 maybe? I’m taking the under.
 
romufc said:
Erm how have you worked that out?

INEOS have just come in and if they thought the relationship is fractured, they would have sacked him.

Secondly, the Athletic reported that they carried one to one meetings with players and were asked about the manager. Then there was the FA cup final showing which actually showed the players are with him.

If the players said..."Ooooo you know what he is rubbish, we dont like him" added to INEOS thinking the relationship is not good, he would have been sacked, not handed a new contract.
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The Athletic piece did not paint a picture of a particularly happy camp with the players. Winning one game doesn't prove anything either way.

INEOS were clearly close to sacking him and now he's publicly making unhelpful comments towards them.

I'm melting down about it to be honest.
 
he's going to have to change the style of play especially on the defensive side of the ball and get the team to be much more compact when not on the ball....we can't have another season where we are outside the top 5 and no chance of fighting for the top 4
 
Leftback99 said:
The Athletic piece did not paint a picture of a particularly happy camp with the players. Winning one game doesn't prove anything either way.

INEOS were clearly close to sacking him and now he's publicly making unhelpful comments towards them.

I'm melting down about it to be honest.
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Winning a cup does though.

INEOS were close but they didnt sack him... they were close to appointing Tuchel.. must have had a fractured relationship so he was not considered as manager.
 
Leftback99 said:
The Athletic piece did not paint a picture of a particularly happy camp with the players. Winning one game doesn't prove anything either way.
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this was one of the funniest talking points to keep him, after the FA cup final, for me:

"The way the players reacted to him"

About players being happy and celebrating a cup win, as if they were going to be frowning and pushing him away :lol:
 
Is any comment on his quotes classified as a meltdown? I swear there was more leeway sometimes when it comes to criticizing Sir Alex without getting ad hominem attacks.
 
NLunited said:
It looks like we won’t be able to correct enough issues this summer to put us in top four with almost dead certainty. There still will be overpaid players on the books who don’t fit here and structural issues with staff.

All that matters is that we keep moving in the right direction. No more overpaying for transfers, no more insane wages, no more older players who are declining, better recruitment according to a long term vision.

Fix the medical team issues whatever they are.

Unfortunately knives will be out again for Ten Hag, especially from the media and the ETH out cultists who are having a meltdown.

It is good to see Erik has such a strong bond with many of his former players, like Tadic, who called him the best manager he worked with.

We need to get rid of bad influences in the dressing room and go for more young players who are willing to follow instructions and learn new things.
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Those damn cultists demanding top 4 in manager's third season. So impatient.
 
Leftback99 said:
The Athletic piece did not paint a picture of a particularly happy camp with the players. Winning one game doesn't prove anything either way.

INEOS were clearly close to sacking him and now he's publicly making unhelpful comments towards them.

I'm melting down about it to be honest.
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How are these comments unhelpful towards them?
 
stefan92 said:
Now tell me: What is the structure right now, and what is the structure you expect to be existing during the transfer window? Is THAT structure a good one?

I do get all the points about INEOS wanting to get it right, get best in class guys for every position etc, but it takes time. More time than anybody likes I think. It might come good at some point, but it's not unlikely that at that point EtH will be sacked anyway because he doesn't believe in the structure being able to get him the support he needs to get better results again.

So why should he care about that? A manager always is rated (and eventually sacked) on the base of relatively short term results and expectations. That's how the business works, that's exactly why INEOS want a structure that makes the manager/head coach easier replaceable. EtH has no reason to believe that his live will get easier in the short term if he agrees to give some of his responsibilities to an empty desk.
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The guys are hired. The structure is laid. And EtH AFAIK isn't just quibbling about what's happening until gardening leave is over. And this is a fight he can't win, and shouldn't. He's being a fool.
 
DSG said:
Curious to know the number of pages this thread reaches before it is shut down, which would indicate Ten Hag has left or been sacked. 2 seasons, 3000 pages…

Over/under at 5000 maybe? I’m taking the under.
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Looking forward to the catcalling and histrionics after each positive / negative result. Worse than all the FdJ threads by a country mile!
 
stefan92 said:
Committing to someone you can't be sure to get - that is amateur level.
Performing a season review without involving the two most important people in the structure (manager on holiday, DoF not signed) - that is amateur level.

It's true that EtH and the team had a poor campaign last year, but INEOS do their best to ensure that things will not improve next season. If they really do get all their stuff right in this slow way they seem to have to set up their proper "structure" they might have a shot next summer. Which would mean completely wasting next season.
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You’re being a little naive to think they didn’t consult with Ashworth on it.
He has to work with him when he starts officially.
 
Rista said:
Those damn cultists demanding top 4 in manager's third season. So impatient.
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How do you tell a United fan from a Ten Hag fan?

The United fans aren’t prepping excuses for failure in the middle of June.
 
His confidence is sky high right now. In his mind his selections and tactics are getting vindicated right now, and he’ll probably try the suicidal tactics again next season, hopefully he doesn’t stick with them for long when it inevitably doesn’t work again.
 
lex talionis said:
For the sake of our mental health it's best if we forget about the disastrous season we just endured -- yes, I'm aware of the FA Cup triumph, but I'm also aware that Coventry were brutalized by a wrongly disallowed goal -- and look to the future. We have a strong squad that needs strengthening and that seems to be underway, and we have every reason to believe that after the painful two and a half weeks that ETH endured not sure whether he would be sacked that he will raise his own game as manager in the 24/25 season.
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Could we stop with this ridiculous ABU narrative. It was correctly ruled offside and they also got two lucky goals. Yes we shouldn’t have been at that point but stop pissing on our achievement like I would expect a scouser or other supporter to do.
 
lex talionis said:
The Coventry player was onside. But you won't see me complaining as we were hosed most of the season by horrifying officiating.

But a spade must be called out as a spade.
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Offside by a tight margin. I’m not sure you know what a spade looks like.
 
Giggsy13 said:
Could we stop with this ridiculous ABU narrative. It was correctly ruled offside and they also got two lucky goals. Yes we shouldn’t have been at that point but stop pissing on our achievement like I would expect a scouser or other supporter to do.
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Another one having a meltdown. Now they are going back and revisiting correct decisions that were in our favour. What’s next?
 
We’re about to see a different ETH next season. One that wants to prove a point. He’s been brutally honest in all the questions he’s answered. He’s fire up and isn’t afraid to speak against the new owners
 
lex talionis said:
The Coventry player was onside. But you won't see me complaining as we were hosed most of the season by horrifying officiating.

But a spade must be called out as a spade.
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You need to rewatch it then mate. Was offside by the smallest of margins. We’d of been fuming if it was given against us but it is what it is. Like you said we’ve had dodgy decisions all season and that decision stopped city winning the double.
 
DJ_21 said:
We’re about to see a different ETH next season. One that wants to prove a point. He’s been brutally honest in all the questions he’s answered. He’s fire up and isn’t afraid to speak against the new owners
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Maybe he should channel some of that energy to being a better coach. We don't need another Jose.
 
What a shitshow this thread has turned into.

It's literrally just a group of posters slagging of our manager, then slagging off the fans who stand by the manager.

The season hasn't even started yet, but the toxicity is off the charts. Give it a rest you bellends, let him lose 2-3 games before you come out with your pirtchforks.
 
ArmaDino said:
What a shitshow this thread has turned into.

It's literrally just a group of posters slagging of our manager, then slagging off the fans who stand by the manager.

The season hasn't even started yet, but the toxicity is off the charts. Give it a rest you bellends, let him lose 2-3 games before you come out with your pirtchforks.
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:lol:
 
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