If you like. Still leaves him in a massive negative for the season combined with all the other games.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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Agree. It is Manchester City. They might not have won the CL but they are still the best team in Europe in my opinion. Even Real Madrid with all the amazing players they have had to play a counter attack style and give up all possession.... but ETH, who manages a team MUCH worse than Real Madrid, should be looked down upon for giving up possession against Manchester City.
ETH had a shit season and that is a valid reason for wanting him sacked but giving up possession against Manchester City in a cup final isnt.
That’s a bullshit excuse for City. They were fine the year before in the cup final weren’t they? There are numerous videos on YouTube showing how ETH and Utd tactically outclassed Pep.
It wasn’t a smash and grab.
So we have a season where Shaw and Casemiro have expressed disappointment and a lack of confidence in the medical staff (i'm sure there was another player but i can't remember). EtH made some strong criticisms over the medical staff also and that their judgment affected the decision to send back Reguilon because the club thought we were getting players back.
Regardless of the next manager, this has to be resolved.
Regardless of the next manager, this has to be resolved.
Amad should have had more gametime than he got this season, but picking Rashford in the final made sense due to our gameplan. That's not one to hold over ETH, even if we hadn't ended up winning.
It does highlight the problem though. We have not evolved into the high pressing possession based fast transition side that ETH was brought in to implement. And this is clearly a problem of having too many of the wrong players for this style of play, not enough of the right ones and therefore overstressing the ones we do have. And overstressing players is an endemic problem at the club if we're going to be honest.
For example Shaw made it pretty clear only yesterday that his second injury was caused by coming back too soon from the first one at ETH's request. There is a pattern of this happening at the club going all the way back to Owen Hargreaves, and it's caused by the excess pressure of constant and instant expectations.
The longer this manager limbo drags on, the harder it is to be positive about INEOS’ reign here. Looks like nothing has actually changed. Unless ETH has been given assurances his job is safe and INEOS have simply not bothered to brief the media because they are too busy turning us into world beating champs.
I'm ETH in. Barely. 3 cup finals is not a fluke.
But the tactics this season were sackable.
He has just enough credit in the bank for 1 more season. Dealing with the ownership change, Ronaldo, Sancho, rashford and injuries would have derailed any manager.
Also, there are very few available managers in the top level.
Give him next season. But if we are outclassed by lower table teams I'm OK to get rid as early as October.
But the tactics this season were sackable.
He has just enough credit in the bank for 1 more season. Dealing with the ownership change, Ronaldo, Sancho, rashford and injuries would have derailed any manager.
Also, there are very few available managers in the top level.
Give him next season. But if we are outclassed by lower table teams I'm OK to get rid as early as October.
I agree with that. I was refering to post on this forum before the match started. ETH made the wrong line up according to some of the more vocal ETH out crowd. And with vocal i mean the people who see everything that ETH does as a reason to sack him until proven otherwise. Although the tactic to use Rashford is countered for 99% by City when Kyle Walker is playing. But luckily, not even Kyle Walker is fast enough to stop Rashford and Garnacho at the same time.
Had we lost, it would have been held against ETH though. Maybe not by some more reasonable ETH out poster but certainly some would use it against ETH.
Shaw said that? I have missed that then. Rushing players back from injury or asking them to play with injuries has been a problem at the club. Rashford played with a back injury for quite a while during the Ole period too if i remember correctly? Im also of the opinion that the club (that could be Ole, the medical staff or a combination of both) ruined Martial by asking him to play with injuries. Martial then picked up a big injury and has never been the same again... and i doubt he will ever be.
Martinez also picked up another injury after he returned but that was caused by the West Ham player falling on him. I dont know if that really does count.
This is basically how i feel about it. With the small difference that he has enough credit in the bank to stay over hiring managers (Tuchel, Southgate, Potter, de Zerbi) that im unsure about. Had a clearly better manager been available then i would be for sacking ETH.
Although if ETH is sacked, you cant say he didnt deserve it at all. I do recogise that the ETH out crowd also has some very valid arguments.
Agree completely. But we have to back him; improvements need to be made in medical department and other staff, and transfer business needs to be handled better.
Otherwise he will have one hand tied behind his back again.
It’s literally been two weeks. It’s long when no football is on but when they are probably working to different deadlines to us, I’m sure they aren’t too bothered about fan opinion.
Once they announce either way. It will all be forgotten about a week later.
Quite agree.
Thought it was supposed to be sorted out by the end of the week.
I guess they didn't specify which week though.
Said no such thing. He blamed himself and the medical staff.
No. Its the EtH out brigade trying to pin it on EtH. We have even had people say its his fault because he didn't ignore the medical staff clearing him.
Take it they didn’t celebrate winning the league last year then? Or they didn’t celebrate winning the FA cup. As they won the treble within weeks. If we beat city when it’s deserved people still make the excuses that city weren’t at their best…. It’s actually sad that us beating city as annoyed some of our fans as much as us losing to them would have.
It's weird alright. You can want ETH out and point to some absolutely valid concerns. But downplaying a good FA Cup win is agenda driven bollox.
I mean, it changed for Ten Hag with one game/FA Cup. So I’m assuming the same would happen with Southgate
It's not a pile on at all, I'm just pointing out that while the manager can delegate decisions ultimately it's still his responsibility. If you claim it's all on the medical staff fair enough. But at some point if Ten Hag kept listening to them then it becomes his fault at least in part.
No he's not a mind reader, but unless he's got long term memory problems. If the medical staff keep advising him to rush players back before they're ready at some point it'd be an idea to start ignoring their advice if they kept giving him shit advice. Wouldn't it?
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Not a chance. It would be a fecking hideous appointment.
I'm not the one claiming the medical department on multiple occasions advised rushing players back too early. If that was true, do you think Ten Hag was right to keep listening to their advice?
It's why why we are looking to hire that physio from Arsenal no? They probably reviewed and determined that our medical staff isn't good enough.
I don't know how anyone can say the manager should know better about injuries than the medical staff and the player himself at that time. If it's the other way around and he rushes a player back going against the medical staff's advice, we would be here blaming the manager again for ignoring their advice.
Still trying to blame Ten Hag I see. And on the other hand, the manager should not be responsible for everything.
Ten Hag doesn’t have medical degrees, duh.
Reguilon was sent back because the medical staff assured Ten Hag he would have Shaw and Malacia back. It is shambolic.
That's what's been happening, yeah
Classy, about the level of discussion I've come to expect though..
thought of Southgate taking over United does my head in....get the same sinking feeling when Moyes took over for Sir Alex
Do you think ten Hag has the medical experience and qualifications not to? What you are asking for, so you can point the finger at him, is absolutely pathetic.
Would you expect him to ignore their advice on a player shouldn't play? Of course you wouldn't.
If the medical department isn't up to scratch thats not on him, its on whoever employs them.
Ezza 8th Hag
If the medical team continually advised Ten Hag that players were good to go. But it turned out they were giving him bad advice and it lead to multiple players getting injured again as they weren't ready yet.
Should Ten Hag have kept following their advice?
Ive been saying this too. Also everybody forgetting our CL performances, shambles.
Watch it happen all over again next season if we make the mistake of keeping him.
My sentiments as well, the strongest point being that there are very few available managers in the top level. But if we’re getting mugged by clubs like Fulham and Palace again in October we may have turn quickly to Pochettino. But please, not Southgate.
Who did he rush back going against the medical staffs advice ? Or is this about Shaw's comments from yesterday? If so he blamed himself and medical staff not the manager. The medical staff did a scan and didn't find anything so they cleared him and Shaw himself said ok to play when the manager asked him.
I mean eventually they have to get it right.
Isn't Ten Hag their boss?
If players kept getting injured shortly after their return from injury. Would Ten Hag need a medical degree to ask himself if maybe they were being rushed back too early?
Do you think the medical team did a great job last season?
Not that he’s super reliable by any means, but he’s probably the most reliable journalist to give a time frame so far
Piece just out in The Times saying Sir Jim has had face to face talks with Tuchel in Monaco last Tuesday, and that EtH is back from his holidays.
Why would ten Hag be the boss of the medical department? If anything it would be something the Technical Director or Director of football would cover. You realise its not football manager?
What has if I think the medical team did a good job got to do with anything?
The new low you are going with this is just astonishing. Do you not feel a bit silly, or embarrassed for what you are actually suggesting?
Big week this week
Again in hindsight it's easy to say this now but he wouldnt know they were giving shit advice at that time. He's not the one with medical degrees who spent their whole life working as doctors/physios to know better. He obviously chose to trust those with actual qualifications.
The club clearly identified problems with the medical department and is looking to improve it now with hiring a new physio. Feels like the manager is catching strays for literally everything wrong at the club. Next he will be getting blamed for the leaking roof at OT probably.
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