Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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croadyman said:
They need to stop dithering and say it then, maybe can finally switch focus to transfers
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A “review” of the footballing season surely can’t take this long.

romufc said:
It is probably the opposite. If the manager was staying they would have come out by now and backed him, the fact that they haven't probably means he is gone.
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Hmm. But by not making the announcement, we are hurting our preparations for next season. Shooting ourselves in the foot.

Would be typical of how we’ve gone about a few things in recent history though so maybe you’re right!

AndySmith1990 said:
Why? Isn't the point of this new structure to enable smoother transitions between managers, rather than buying players specifically for the current manager
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The point certainly is that but from a prospective players’ perspective, there would be hesitancy in joining a club without not knowing who the manager is. After all, the manager is the one who picks the team sheet.
 
Zed 101 said:
Depends what you want to show really.... frankly I think stats are the worst thing about football, I use my eyes and I know what I see, and I know ETH is shite
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YES ! But the stats were saying something different until people pointed out that they are fake. :)
 
troylocker said:
It's really not though. Here's why:

Arteta and Klopp showed progress and you could see their fingerprint on their teams performances on the pitch.
With ETH it's the opposite.

Here's the hard stats for Klopp, Arteta and ETH for their first seasons in the PL (For Klopp and Arteta I've added their first seasons and their first 2 full seasons dsince they both started mid season):

Klopp:
1st season (started 8/10 2015 - 30 games in the PL)
1,60 points per game (under performance by 0,1 points per game)
+ 0,5 goal difference per game (over performance by 0,03 gd/game)

2nd season (Full season)
2,0 points per game (over performance by 0,14 points per game)
+ 0,95 goal difference per game (over performance by 0,34 gd/game)

3rd season
1,95 points per game (under performance by 0,12 points per game)
+ 1,21 goal difference per game (over performance by 0,42 gd/game)

Arteta:
1st season (Started 22/12 2019 - 20 games in the PL)
1,65 points per game (over performance by 0,33 points per game)
+ 0,55 goal difference per game (over performance by 0,75 gd/game)

2nd season
1,61 points per game (over performance by 0,23 points per game)
+ 0,42 goal difference per game (over performance by 0,18 gd/game)

3rd season
1,81 points per game (over performance by 0,33 points per game)
+ 0,34 goal difference per game (under performance by 0,05 gd/game)

ETH:
1st season
1,97 points per game (over performance by 0,19 points per game)
+ 0,39 goal difference per game (under performance by 0,18 gd/game)

2nd season
1,58 points per game (under performance by 0,41 points per game)
- 0,03 goal difference per game (over performance by 0,35 gd/game)

So you see progress with the first two and the opposite with ETH.

It gets even more interesting when we do the same with the underlying stats instead (from understat.com). In fact it gets really ugly:

Klopp (notice the almost linear improvement from season to season) :
1st season (started 8/10 2015 - 30 games in the PL)
1,70 expected points per game
+ 0,47 expected goal difference per game

2nd season
1,84 expected points per game
+ 0,61 expected goal difference per game

3rd season
2,09 expected points per game
+ 0,79 expected goal difference per game

Arteta (notice the almoxt linear improvement from season to season)
1st season (Started 22/12 2019 - 20 games in the PL)
1,32 expected points per game
- 0,20 expected goal difference per game

2nd season
1,55 expected points per game
+ 0,24 expected goal difference per game

3rd season
1,70 expected points per game
+ 0,39 expected goal difference per game

And then we have ETH - Notice the almost vertical drop from the first season to the second season:
1st season
1,74 expected points per game
+ 0,57 expected goal difference per game

2nd season
1,17 expected points per game
- 0,38 expected goal difference per game

The numbers in that post is meaningless because they don't show the trajectories the 3 managers had in their starting years at the respective clubs.
A graphical presentation of the results and play would be something like this:
Klopp: /
Arteta: /
ETH: \

It should be a stick to beat ETH with if anything. A big one.
Do you still want to find out where ETH's taking us next season?
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But but but injuries and his stubbornness and quite a bit of stupidity haven't helped. If all those could be improved, who knows ?

But, yea, that doesn't look great. Maybe it was just a blip ?
 
Redplane said:
The longer this takes the more I want to keep him. Well played United owners.
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:lol:
I feel the same, which is mad. These two dam cups keep telling me he could be ok. When I know he's a complete burke.
 
Stig said:
But but but injuries and his stubbornness and quite a bit of stupidity haven't helped. If all those could be improved, who knows ?

But, yea, that doesn't look great. Maybe it was just a blip ?
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Sorry mate, but this is a stupid post. Yes, ETH was stubborn beyond reason at times, but injuries were a genuine problem. If you cannot understand that playing in a certain way requires certain players then I’m sorry for you.
 
AngeloHenriquez said:
Just checked, he has played them 5 times and won twice (Making it a 40% win rate) - No idea where the 4 comes from unless it's amount of games we played them in the league or scored vs them in the league?
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Ignore it it's not correct.
 
New contract to tide him over then more money to pay when we sack him for Southgate at Christmas.

Brexit structure review fc
 
Will all those who want him gone be prepared to get behind him and the team if he is kept on?

If he got 3rd and won the europa league next season would that be considered a big step back in the right direction?
 
AndySmith1990 said:
Those defending Ten Hag all season have insisted all a manager needs to succeed, is a good structure and time (because they'll definitely become Fergie or Arteta)

Therefore why would you be so against Southgate? He'll have the structure, all we need to do is give him time. What's the problem?
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Exactly!
 
GaryLifo said:
Will all those who want him gone be prepared to get behind him and the team if he is kept on?

If he got 3rd and won the europa league next season would that be considered a big step back in the right direction?
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Yes, of course you go into the season hoping for the best.

Depends where we finish in the league. We could win the EL but finish 7th-10th. Would that make you think we're going in the right direction?
 
GaryLifo said:
Will all those who want him gone be prepared to get behind him and the team if he is kept on?

If he got 3rd and won the europa league next season would that be considered a big step back in the right direction?
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Why not? The vast majority of people support the club not a manager, so regardless of who is managing the team they will be behind the club and hope that everything goes as well as possible.
 
Maybe ineos are spreading these Southgate rumours to find the leak in the camp?
 
DJ_21 said:
There’s another reason why this could be getting delayed… he’s the manager of England. We best not be waiting for him. That would be an absolutely awful decision.
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Well, if he is appointed, I will have absolutely no faith in any Ineos decisions.
 
It does seem increasingly likely that INEOS will keep ETH and then sack him in mid-season for Southgate, once Southgate has take all the time off he needs after the Euros are done with.
 
GaryLifo said:
Will all those who want him gone be prepared to get behind him and the team if he is kept on?

If he got 3rd and won the europa league next season would that be considered a big step back in the right direction?
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Wont make a jot of difference if people 'get behind him' or not. The outcome will be the same, managed by Southgate by this time next year at the very latest.
 
GaryLifo said:
Will all those who want him gone be prepared to get behind him and the team if he is kept on?

If he got 3rd and won the europa league next season would that be considered a big step back in the right direction?
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It's all about the football for me. Even if we won nothing next year, I'd be happy if I could see for myself that we're heading in the right direction. I've not felt that so far under ETH and actually think we've gone backwards this season. I can see what he's trying to do, but I just don't like it. I don't think it's title winning football in the PL.

I also think some of his in game decisions are bewildering at times, and he seems incredibly slow to come to conclusions that fans reached weeks before him. His eye for a player is poor, and that raises more questions for me with regards to how good he is at assessing opposition players and finding the best roles for his players.
 
AndySmith1990 said:
Those defending Ten Hag all season have insisted all a manager needs to succeed, is a good structure and time (because they'll definitely become Fergie or Arteta)

Therefore why would you be so against Southgate? He'll have the structure, all we need to do is give him time. What's the problem?
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Did you really just put Fergie and Arteta in the same bracket!
 
Reluctant to sack without a clear plan to appoint a replacement... So why does it take so long for us to have a plan? It's not like we had to wait until the season is over to start making plans.
 
lex talionis said:
It does seem increasingly likely that INEOS will keep ETH and then sack him in mid-season for Southgate, once Southgate has take all the time off he needs after the Euros are done with.
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That would be up there for the most downright weirdest way to go about appointing a new manager in the history of association football.
 
Chairman Steve said:
That would be up there for the most downright weirdest way to go about appointing a new manager in the history of association football.
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If Southgate were the next Ancelotti I'd be ok with this, as shitty as it would be for ETH himself. But Gareth is no Carlo, not even close.
 
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