Why don't you think that?
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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Why don't you think that?
This
Excellent men management, he actually listens
This is actually exactly what happened at Ajax with Lasse Schöne. Lasse asked ETH if he please could play at 6. Many here don't know this but when that happened Ajax began their 2018/2019 campaign when Ten Hag listened to Schöne, Tadic, Blind and Ziyech.
I just don't know what he was trying to achieve with the team shape this season, it was practically self-sabotage. And suddenly finding the common sense to change it with three games left was too little too late.
Only? was it? Donny, Ziyech, Promes, Neres and the like didnt leave Ajax did they? Ass to that the manager that replaced Ten Hag got more money to spend, Ten Hag for 60m off max per window to spend, the 2 seasons post Ten Hagm Ajax spent over 100m both summers only to finish 3rd and 6th. Whilst Ten Hag whilst losing his players was winning the league.
We played terribly I agree, looks like you're standards are a bit lower than mine. The worst team was Ten Hag's team that conceded 58 goals and a team that played considerably well conceded 63. Wow they conceded 5 goals less when the were considerably better.
Poch who had a better squad, done considerably better by finishing points ahead of the worst team. Thats who you want as manager, someone who has a better team, finishing 3 points ahead of the worst manager.
In respects to our heaviest deefats, I ofcourse criticise Ten Hag, I did not say he shouldn't be sacked, he should but not for a manager that is worse than him in Poch. You do realise Poch had some heavy defeats too this season losing 3-1 to West Ham, 4-1 to Newcastle, 4-1 to Liverpool, 5-0 to their London rivals.
Poor teams win trophies correct, but poor managers dont even win that, they bottle it to kids. Poch has managed in England longer and won 0 trophies, Ten Hag has managed 2 seasons with 2 trophies.
P.S Since 2000, the only 2 poor teams that have won the FA cup are Portsmouth and Wigan, other than that we have seen it Chelsea, United, Arsenal, Liverpool City. In 24 years twice.
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Probably because we haven’t for over a week so today’s no different as neither will tomorrow.
Perhaps, but I was looking for the rationale of that poster for specifically posting it this time. I assume they don't post the same thing every day. It's just a bit of a weird thing to post.
Bit of an old fashioned view but we ended in 8th place because of the number of points we won put us there.
yes it is beyond belief. But it’s not only the fans it seems, even Ineos and all the new people they have in place seem to have changed their opinion. I don’t understand all those people, what have they been watching this season.
to be fair, "we have earned that 8th place" would also be a weird hill to die on as a United fan. Oh, how the mighty have fallen.
Just not happening, I think the review is nonsense, theyve done the review, they are getting ducks in a row thats all.
Just my opinion though, also I think his lower pay off kicks in next month or something? could drag on a while yet.
Just as well I didn't say that then. And yes, the mighty have fallen.
Why didn't the players speak up until three games left? Ten hag isn't the one out there on the pitch. He doesn't know everything. The players have to let him know how they feel so that he can make the necessary corrections. Not his fault I'm afraid, the players need to express themselves more.
Actually has great man management skills as demonstrated with CR7. We all know Ole would've given him what he wanted just because he's Cristiano.
Fair enough.
This is why Manutd will not succeed. Its the same cycle and fans are to blame too.
We hire a new manager, he does well 1st year, 2nd year it all goes to sh***, we blame the manager call for his head. We then criticise the board saying the reason is because the structure is wrong.
Hire a manager partially back him, every manager has been partially backed, United fans scream "But he spend 400m", yes but the manager was not allowed to overhaul his squad, so they have to play a style that doesnt suit them, every window same issue.
Now we are there again, He goes x amount to spend, we had our worst season ever, sack the manager, get another average manager in.
Look at our recent history since 2013, 7th, 4th, 5th, 6th, 2nd, 6th, 3rd, 2nd, 6th, 3rd, 8th. We can't act as if its not a recurring theme, its been bad since 2013, sacking managers, getting a bounce, then blaming the manager.
When will we learn that sometimes you have to look above the manager.
A new manager will come in, most fans like Tuchel, he will like players like Maguire, McT because they do the job but are not great footballers then we will sack him in 2 years time and then say oh McT and Maguire cant play the system the next manager wants. Its a never ending cycle.
We hire a new manager, he does well 1st year, 2nd year it all goes to sh***, we blame the manager call for his head. We then criticise the board saying the reason is because the structure is wrong.
Hire a manager partially back him, every manager has been partially backed, United fans scream "But he spend 400m", yes but the manager was not allowed to overhaul his squad, so they have to play a style that doesnt suit them, every window same issue.
Now we are there again, He goes x amount to spend, we had our worst season ever, sack the manager, get another average manager in.
Look at our recent history since 2013, 7th, 4th, 5th, 6th, 2nd, 6th, 3rd, 2nd, 6th, 3rd, 8th. We can't act as if its not a recurring theme, its been bad since 2013, sacking managers, getting a bounce, then blaming the manager.
When will we learn that sometimes you have to look above the manager.
A new manager will come in, most fans like Tuchel, he will like players like Maguire, McT because they do the job but are not great footballers then we will sack him in 2 years time and then say oh McT and Maguire cant play the system the next manager wants. Its a never ending cycle.
Great post! We’ve not given a manager longer than 3 years. ETH has started well and as had a lot more problems to deal with than previous managers, he’s had the Ronaldo problem, the MG problem, new ownership issues, sancho issue, injuries all over the place, and despite all that he’s won 2 trophies. The players obviously like him, they shown that after the FA cup win. Now that he can just focus on coaching and let the people above deal with transfers it should work better. Yes the style of play wasn’t great last year but he shown he can compete against the better teams when he has a full squad to pick from. We beat Barca over 2 legs, we’ve beaten Arsenal, City, Liverpool. I’d personally give him this season and see how he does, if nothing changes and we have a poor season then at least his contracts up. But if he improves us which I think we will improve next year then we can always offer him an extra year contract.
It's really not though. It's nothing more than a rehash of the tired old arguments that have been made in here for over 2800 pages.
It makes sense though. Same cycle every time does no one any favours.
Which of our managers should have been given more than three years?
Very true, he beat all of those teams once. Just once though. But that's enough for some hope.
The narrative by a lot wanting him out is far worse to be fair.
While that obviously is true, we didn't really 'deserve' to finish that high based on our performances. In the first half of the season there were a lot of games where we were clearly second best but we were lucky that the opposition didn't bring their finishing boots and/or our players pulled off a moment of individual class so we got an undeserved win. The stats generally showed we should have been 15th, and while we outperformed that for a while there is only so long we can get lucky. In the final third of the season our results starting matching our performances, until we finally turned things around in the last four games when ETH changed his tactics.
yeah I agree he knows I just mean the speculation and press following him around until this story is put to bed
I mean, it’s a no-brainer to let the fans know if he’s staying really
Maybe there's a case of too many cooks going on? We've gone from having naff all structure to suddenly having the opinions of SJR, Brailsford, Blanc, Wilcox, Berrada & maybe Ashworth. They've all just been thrown together and what's to say they don't all have vastly differing opinions that are just causing a stalemate? Personally hoping overhyped Bike Boy Brailsford doesn't get final say.
The fans want to ignore the problems, the injuries, the ownership, for them its not relevant to how the team plays when its an actual correlation. 3 teams with the worst injuries this season, Manutd, Newcastle, Chelsea, all within points of each other, what a shock, when key players are injured, teams are not consistent.
Our biggest priority this season should be to get the structure and recruitment sorted. Tell Ten Hag, he is a head coach, get players that the club think will suit the style with the manager's input, get rid of players. We are the only football club where players cannot be sold. Jose wanted Shaw and Martial gone, 3 managers later they are still here. Jose told the board, Rashford cant play CF, 6 years later, Rashford is 2nd choice CF.
Clear the squad, get technical players in, then see what Ten Hag does, if he doesn't do well get rid of him and replace him. We have to try something different now.
bike boy
We've changed players multiple times as well, with the large majority of the squad only coming in for the last manager or two. Going by the same argument we should give the players more time instead of changing a significant amount of the squad again...
We've sold plenty of players.
You're basically saying that the club should be building the squad rather than the manager making the decisions, but then complaining about a moment where the club chose how to build the squad rather than let the manager make the decisions.
I can understand fans wanting to keep Eth but it doesn't contrast well when looking for patterns with previously failed managers.
The biggest issue of the structure has always been overindulgence, so it's a question of moderation. Like anything when trying to produce balance arguments can be made against it.
For example, if INEOS start driving recruitment through the relevant channels with minimalist contribution from the manager, if the players end up unsuccessful then the argument against the structure forms saying they are signing players the manager didn't totally adhere towards.
The failed regime at United corresponds to both the accountability of the hierarchy and the manager. It's not like the club owe these individuals anything they are paid in the top 0.5% in a domestic economy, if a manager fails to deliver in responsibilities in corporate they are let go.
Also resorting to a point that Roy Keane made a few years back the club is asking a very low medium of these managers to actually qualify for Europe without having to win major competitions. There's no substantial argument to be made for any of Moyes, Jose, Ole and Ragnick to have been given more time.
The biggest issue of the structure has always been overindulgence, so it's a question of moderation. Like anything when trying to produce balance arguments can be made against it.
For example, if INEOS start driving recruitment through the relevant channels with minimalist contribution from the manager, if the players end up unsuccessful then the argument against the structure forms saying they are signing players the manager didn't totally adhere towards.
The failed regime at United corresponds to both the accountability of the hierarchy and the manager. It's not like the club owe these individuals anything they are paid in the top 0.5% in a domestic economy, if a manager fails to deliver in responsibilities in corporate they are let go.
Also resorting to a point that Roy Keane made a few years back the club is asking a very low medium of these managers to actually qualify for Europe without having to win major competitions. There's no substantial argument to be made for any of Moyes, Jose, Ole and Ragnick to have been given more time.
Read what I said, with the managers input.
Whilst this is true, surely you cannot expect a manager to build anything without consistency?
Let me explain.
Since Ten Hag took over, his 1st choice was Martial, a player that Jose wanted out, post Rangnick looked like he was gone. He was our only ST. He then got Weghorst, a championship player for 6 months. Then he had to play pre season with Sancho as false 9, starts the season and we sign a 20 year old ST who cant play first few games.
So he is having to integrate a new ST every 3/4 months, how can you build a style of play when you have to change it every 3/4 months?
The first thing Ten Hag said when he came in, he wanted a FDJ type player, instead he got Casemiro. This is the case in midfield, Sabistzer, Ambrat and an ageing Casemiro.
How many teams that hire managers and want to build squads buy 30 year old players to be the main ones?
CB, same issues, he had to rely on Johnny Evans, a player that we said was not good enough for Manutd over 10 years ago.
Saying this, I also agree that Ten Hag has made mistakes in his tenure, massive ones but he has also learnt from them. The issue is, the club hasn't learnt from its mistakes.
We made these mistakes 10 years ago and still doing so.. remember loaning Falcao, Ighalo, Cavani etc... Signing Ronaldo.
None deserved it at the time. But if Arsenal did the same as we do then they wouldn’t be at the stage where they can now challenge for league titles.
That’s because the managers all got what they wanted rather than the transfer team signing players for a set playing style. They brought in managers who all had a different way of playing and let them have full control.
We can't keep him now. Everyone is sat there expecting him to be sacked, INEOS have undermined him massively with their indecision. If he stays it will just look daft.
I suspect they're just sorting out a replacement.
I suspect they're just sorting out a replacement.
This smells like they're waiting for the FA Cup final buzz to die down before sacking him. If we lost that game, he'd have been gone on the Sunday. None of this makes any sense if they are keeping him on. The only explanation to me is that they've planned to sack him, and dont think its a good luck straight after the final.
What if we'll never fit his style of football?
It's kind of ridiculous that we don't have our footballing structure in place yet, but are considering sacking / hiring a new manager. I'm pretty much Ten Hag out, but we also should probably ride him for another year until the senior management is in place and functioning. Flip side is ETH's league performance was awful and I did not see any positive signs to lead to keeping him. And then what about this transfer window? Are we going to overpay and let out ridiculous contracts, making any underperforming or failed transfer impossible to sell? Are we going then to continue to rely on scout ETH, who clearly cannot identify talent (not his job anyway) and only wants players he's familiar with.
In some ways, I feel the club should just lay low and not over commit to anything right now. But that approach will likely guarantee another failed campaign.
Overall, it seems clear they were planning to sack ETH before the final, and now are just waiting for the euphoria of winning to die down before they do it.
In some ways, I feel the club should just lay low and not over commit to anything right now. But that approach will likely guarantee another failed campaign.
Overall, it seems clear they were planning to sack ETH before the final, and now are just waiting for the euphoria of winning to die down before they do it.
At what point did I use the word "only"? I said the quantity and quality of talent loss during his years with the reigns at Ajax is not close to the loss that has happened since, and in my opinion it's not shocking to see they've struggled to find their footing. In fact, a third place finish with so many successive sales of core players is a good achievement.
What are on about? You're pretty much having a conversation with yourself, you do realise that, right?
My statements to you are simple: "6th is better than 8th". "Chelsea played considerable better football than us - according to some underlying metrics"
From that, you arbitrarily started talking about goals conceded and however many points they've finished ahead of United. Is this what you understood for underlying metrics relating to the quality of football played? Is this a reading comprehension skill issue? Furthermore, at no point in our exchange have I stated that I want Poch as manager. I just don't wholesale dismiss him, and I'm inclined to believe he would be an improvement on Ten Hag.
In terms of the "Chelsea has a better squad" thing that you're pushing, this is a fairly recent narrative or at the very least one that developed over the course of the season. No one was saying that going into the season. In fact, most people understand that when you have such an influx of players it takes some time for things to gel. This isn't an exact science but going into the season no one even thought Chelsea had a better squad than us and this is corroborated by predictions from/by most pundits:
BBC 23/24 predictions
And therein lies the disconnect. I don't believe Poch is a worse manager than Ten Hag, and I've certainly not seen that reflected in their performance in the league here. How can you say "you do realise Poch has had some heavy defeats too" when my retort to you was literally "for every bad Poch result you're listing you can find something similar or even more egregious with Ten Hag". mate, are you even reading what's being said to you?
I've already clarified my position in regards to cups. I just don't hold them in the same regard you do, at the very least not to be decisive in managerial appointments. United is literally a poor team that has just won an FA cup
Cup competitions are weird like that.I do largely agree, but what I would say is that choosing ETH to be the one to change that (by keeping him despite everything going to shit) only works if they decide that his style of play is the same as what INEOS want going forward. Or at the very least can be a good bridging manager between the current and where we want to be. If not, we need to move on to the right type of manager ASAP, otherwise we just waste another season with a manager with an unsuitable style.
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