Having 30 players to choose from for each position sometimes helps. I think ETH had -2 to choose from in the same scale.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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Having 30 players to choose from for each position sometimes helps. I think ETH had -2 to choose from in the same scale.
This is the problem, why are we tearing it all up for someone who may / may not be better.
His Chelsea side looked better, look at the players to his disposal compare to Ten Hag's?
Between 18/19 - 21/22 he won the league. That = 4 times in a row.
In the half season after taking over from tuchel, they were already third when he took over. He did win the cup that season and took them to the CL semis, then won the league in his only full season.
He was also easily the best spurs manager for donkeys years, people actually took them seriously under Poch, unlike before or after when they have largely been a joke.
He has a lot going for him in fairness, but there is no guarantee of success with any manager.
There isn’t anything to “tear up”. We don’t really have foundations with Ten Hag.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen a Poch team look as bad as Ten Hag’s team has looked though
edit - typos and double negative
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Interesting telling me I am wrong but you fail to state the truth too.
So you saying they sold near their whole first team? they sold 5 of their team.
Its contradictory what you state its no surprise because they sold 5 players.
In 19/20 - after their CL run they sold their best players in FDJ, De Ligt, Schone, Dolberg.
In 20/21 - They sold 5 more players in ZIyech, Donny, Dest, Promes and Veltman.
Ten Hag continued to win, but it was when he left they haven't competed since.
the KNVB announced on the same day that it did not intend to resume the 2019–20 season. A final decision would be taken after consultation with the UEFA and debating the consequences with the clubs involved.[6]On 24 April 2020 the KNVB announced their final decision:[2]
- The ranking on 8 March 2020 is the final ranking, but Ajax will not be champions.
Except he did........
Talking about style of play with Poch when we had the worst style of play last season of any team I have ever seen in a top league.
Yep, Poch has never so bad yet after a 18/19 CL campaign, left Spurs 14th in the table, lost 7-2 to Bayern, Lost to Colchester in the league cup but yeah he was great.
The season before where they got to CL final, he lost 8/12 PL games and won 2.
He lost the league at PSG too.
There's nothing interesting here. I told you you're wrong because you're wrong. You said Poch couldn't win the league there. You're wrong, that's verifiably false.
The onus is not on me to state or substantiate your arguments with things you deem truth. I simply highlighted that it's not surprising (to me) that Ajax has dropped off since because they've sold damn near a first team worth of talent. Again, these are players that have left them in the last 2 years:
These are some of the players that have left them in the last two years:
Antony
Licha
Haller
Gravenberch
Tagliafico
Onana
Mazraoui
Blind
Timber
Kudus
Tadic
Alvarez
Bassey
Klaasen
Antony
Licha
Haller
Gravenberch
Tagliafico
Onana
Mazraoui
Blind
Timber
Kudus
Tadic
Alvarez
Bassey
Klaasen
Argh fair enough. 3 in a row then.
But they also lost players when Ten Hag was in charge and still won the league and were competitive in other competitions.
Hats off to you , you're working really hard here .
I've not done the figures , I'll leave that to you. De ligt , de Jong, de beek , ziyech , and numerous others . His ajax sides players got plundered every year . They need replacing . The funds generated from those sales are substantial .
What about his PSG team that lost the league to Lille? And they had Neymar, Messi and mbappe. I can’t say whether they did well or not because I didn’t watch much of his team back then.
Saying "I don’t think I’ve ever seen a Poch team look as bad as Ten Hag’s team has looked though" doesn't translate to saying "he was great". For every bad result you list for Poch - I'm sure you're aware there isn't exactly a shortage of similar or even more egregious stuff under Ten Hag.
and I don't know what "he lost the league at PSG" even means
Except he did........
Talking about style of play with Poch when we had the worst style of play last season of any team I have ever seen in a top league.
Yep, and won a trophy
I see you want Poch who has a great style of play, who has great history of playing exciting football.
18/19 - Lost 7/11 PL games at the end of the season, winning just 2.
19/20 - Left Spurs at 14th, lost to Colchester in the league cup
Lost the league to Lille at PSG
Finished in Europa Conference League against the worst manager in the league Ten Hag getting Europa.
Won 0 trophies in England. Ten Hag has 2.
He had Messi Neymar and Mbappe. He couldnt get them to win a league.
Go on show me more ergegious stuff under Ten Hag then.
So you want us to play good football that gets us 6th? I am all for sacking Ten Hag but not for someone who finished 6th with a much better squad. At least Ten Hag won a cup.
Poch had a chance to win something but as usual in a final, he shits himself and lost to kids.
Lost the semi final to the team we beat in the final and had a better squad than we do.
Yeah but why don’t we have any clarity yet?!?!All in the last 2-3 pages. This thread in a nutshell.
Southgate, Poch, Tuchel, Ten hag staying, going, the feck is Ineos doing.
Been away for a bit, any recent developments here?
I'm not sure what publically looking like an indecisive clown show would do to benefit them. There doesn't even need to be some grand public statement announcing that Ten Hag will be staying if that's what they've decided. It could be done in a much more subtle and roundabout way that doesn't even acknowledge that him leaving was ever a possibility. They could just say that after a thorough review of the campaign there's an acknowledgement all-round that things need to improve, but the club and manager are now looking to the future and beginning preparations for next season. Boom, done.
How will the club benefit from this sort of a statement? If not, who exactly is going to benefit from this? Fans at redcafe?
That would be the smartest way to do it but they’ve shown that they don’t care about making people happy with what they’ve already done regarding staff members and leaving ETH out in the cold. If he stays he ain’t going to trust them or have the best relationship since they’ve let him go on holiday where he’s meant to enjoy it but now he’ll probably be worrying about his future whilst away.
It ain’t to benefit the club. It’s to benefit them. And make them look better than they are showing themselves to be.
That was exactly why they were shite. A front three who all thought they were too important to press or track back with a coach known for that style of play who literally could not tell any of them what to do. He had zero authority because the PSG director of football at the time was a clown.
There are reasons not to want Poch but PSG isn't one of the them. He'd be my first choice if our beloved St Eric is banished.
I'm guessing they already told him he's leaving before he went and this is mainly about PR. Wouldn't be surprised if they announce him as new Bayern or Ajax coach same day we part ways, and Pochel as our new coach too. It all stinks of message control. You don't interview all those coaches if you plan to keep the guy you have.
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everyone will benefit from some clarity I think
it can't be easy for Ten Hag to have constant speculation and discussion from fans about his job, nor the players
but what are the downsides is a more pertinent question? I can't think of any
Compare the exodus of talent in the years he was at the helm with the years since and it's not even close in quantity nor quality. His biggest losses of talent were De Jong, De Ligt, and Dolberg
Not winning the league doesn't equate to "lost the league". Poch's team were not the first nor will they be the last team that are favourites for something and end up not closing it.
I did say similar or more egregious, I guess this is subjective. United has suffered some of their heaviest prem losses under Ten Hag's watch. From 7-0 to our biggest rivals, to 4-0 to Brentford, 0-3 to Bournemouth at OT nonetheless, to 4-0 to Crystal Palace, to disasterclasses against Sevilla, Galatasaray and Copenhagen, to that embarrassing semi-final. I mean, I don't even know why you've got me engaging on this exercises, unless you're a masochist.
I mean, 6th is better than 8th. Not that that should be what United aims for, but again, I don't recall seeing a Poch team look as bad as Ten Hag's. Chelsea played considerable better football than us - according to some underlying metrics - their issue was conversion, but they seemingly found their footing at the tail end of the season.
In regards to cup competitions, I share a similar view as Ole Gunnar Solskjaer, I'm afraid. They're good and all, but I'm just not one to ignore what I've seen throughout the season by shouting "trophy". Poor teams have won cups before and will continue to do so.
I’m as clueless as everyone mate. I was thinking they were doing damage limitation by not sacking Ten hag right after the final but I expected them to make a decision after few days. Turns out they are actually doing more damage by leaving him and everyone in a limbo.
Understandable. 3 players who think they’re bigger than the club. One thing I love about Poch is his willingness to play youngsters. However I just don’t see him as a serial winner, someone to win trophies. I think if he was in the final the other weekend against city then he most likely bottles it.
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Quite sure Ten Hag knows his situation already. If he's still being kept in the dark, we should immediately bring back Glazers to manage the footballing side again.
As far as fans are concerned, Ten Hag has a year left and he's staying, unless informed otherwise.
I think people get a kick out of the suspense for a while, but if it drags too long, they enter panic mode.
Looks like they want a replacement statement as soon as they sack ETH. Unlike Chelsea that sacked Poch and then found a replacement like a week later. Our planning as always been bad, thought it might have improved though with INEOS. They should know who they want and they should have got him after the final. They’ve been apparently planning it way before FA cup final.
Agree, but then he's never had a club in a winning position other than PSG and that was a unique case. In any case we aren't winning anything big for five years. We need a John the Baptist coach who can get us to the right place where a Klopp or a Pep wants to take the job on. I still think that could be ETH but Poch would do a job too. Tuchel and Southgate would take us backwards. Frank and de Zerbi would be just about OK but but less than inspiring.
yeah we are definitely better than Man City.
Ye I get what you’re saying but the trophies in between waiting for the big ones are nice and can we say Poch will win us the odd FA cup? Also he was in a great position to win the CL with spurs who dominated the final against Liverpool but came short. Also with Chelsea, again, they was probably the better team against city in the semi final but again came short and you could say that was down to finishing but he chose to play a ST that’s poor at finishing. I’d rather keep ETH than poch. The only managers I’d have over ETH is probably Enrique or Nagelsman.
Who said that? We’re definitely bigger than them. Not better.
Nope, the sames poo flinging that has been going on for 2830 pages.
Is this thread for real?
We've played horrible football for 12 months, bar 3-4 games. We ended on a flattering 8th place in the league (should have been 15the according chances created and conceded), we have a manager without man management skills, with horrible in game tactics/subs consistantly throughout the season, it's impossible to see his fingerprint on the the pitch and we have gotten worse in every measurable metric in football the last year.
Yet; 50+% is now on keep after one good game against City (who left us more space than we've had in any othrer game this season), up from 20% before the cup final. One game tipped it from 20/80 to 51/49. One game? Are we really rthat reactionary?
We've played horrible football for 12 months, bar 3-4 games. We ended on a flattering 8th place in the league (should have been 15the according chances created and conceded), we have a manager without man management skills, with horrible in game tactics/subs consistantly throughout the season, it's impossible to see his fingerprint on the the pitch and we have gotten worse in every measurable metric in football the last year.
Yet; 50+% is now on keep after one good game against City (who left us more space than we've had in any othrer game this season), up from 20% before the cup final. One game tipped it from 20/80 to 51/49. One game? Are we really rthat reactionary?
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