Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[RedRocket9908]

Good to see we are sticking with our tradition of taking absolute forever to sort anything out.

Its embarrasing how long its taking to sort these things out, 4 months after starting negotiations we still havent reached an agreement with Newcastle for Dan Ashworth and now they are dragging this out as well.

Who are these 5 players under the age of 25 that they are supposedly signing?

 

[Maticmaker]

I'm not sure what announcement you are waiting for. The club isn't going to announce he is staying just because the press come out with a load of stories - a bit like the club don't make announcements every time the press claim we are going to sign a player.

Spot on this!

This uncertainty is not right in an environment where moral, trust and authority are determinant.

Think you might be looking in the wrong place for these virtues.... try the Boy Scouts!

 

[mu4c_20le]

I am inclined to think the opposite.

The longer the review goes on, the more Ten Hag would think they dont believe him.

It would have been easy to keep him if they wanted to by saying, Ten Hag has a contract and we back him. The fact that SJR has avoided that topic from day 1, didnt't seem to keep on him at the trophy lift, no mention of the manager in his tweet, all points to a sack.

It takes time to negotiate with a repalcement though, unless one has already been agreed. Otherwise there will definitely be noise if we're making moves.

 

[Leftback99]

Has there ever been such a public "you were terrible this season but we're going to take a couple of weeks to consider it and we might let you off this time"?

Pretty bizarre at this point.

 

[romufc]

Valid, and I’ve considered that angle, but now I’m looking at it like - “staying” is the default position, and it would be easier to act as if all the noise around Ten Hag was media speculation and the club was always intent on keeping him.

For clarification - I do think they’ve considered sacking, I just think people rallied around Ten Hag fiercely in a manner that they weren’t expecting to. No decision til now, doesn’t bode well for next season, so it might just be easier to keep Ten Hag, than getting someone else in with not a great deal of time to review/prepare and forecast for next season.

Also, I do fear about them keeping him.

They have almost cornered themselves into a no win situation. If they keep him, they have to give him a new contract now to show they believe in him.

If not, its going to be another disaster of a season and I will explain why.

Players and agents would be looking at this closely, can see Bruno's agent looking around. So come the season, the players will believe they have more power over the manager because he isn't backed.

After 2 months if things dont go well, speculation will increase

After 2 months if things do go well, there will be speculation again, this time I reckon you will see Ten Hag's agent leaking other clubs are looking at him etc...

Its just a mess created by INEOS.

 

[romufc]

It takes time to negotiate with a repalcement though, unless one has already been agreed. Otherwise there will definitely be noise if we're making moves.

Chelsea managed to sack and hire a new manager in 2 weeks.

 

[spwd]

The Sun is having a right go at Ratcliffe today. Whoever wrote the article must have been on here looking for pointers.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/28272261/erik-ten-hag-ratcliffe-man-utd/

Agree with everything in that piece unfortunately.

 

[pocco]

That part of the Sun article is spot on though.

Even if they decide to keep him they couldnt have made it any clearer it's by default and hes not actually wanted. It's the biggest managerial undermining job ever.

This is why I think he will go. I believe the reports that they had decided to sack him, as that was the logical thing to do at that point and something most owners would have done. The FA Cup final might have either made them reconsider or, more likely, delay the announcement to let things die down and make it look like it was a considered approach and that they gave him a fair, unbiased assessment.

If they now keep him, which I can't see, then it would be such a big mistake to go about it this way. To have a review of his position to begin with is a problem for ETH. If we heard this at another club we know the manager is about to get potted. But a review that takes so long just makes it look like they couldn't come up with anything else and pretty much had to keep him. It's already a potential bonfire lit for next season already, as soon as we start to lose one or two games. And what does ETH think of it? Does he want to work somewhere that doesn't really have confidence in him?

 

[Marcus]

I think that at the end of the day, we just want United to be successful. Whether with EtH at the helm or not. If the United manager henceforth has no say in which players to sign and this is done independently of who the manager is, maybe this won't affect players coming to join us as there would be a plan in place?

 

[romufc]

This is why I think he will go. I believe the reports that they had decided to sack him, as that was the logical thing to do at that point and something most owners would have done. The FA Cup final might have either made them reconsider or, more likely, delay the announcement to let things die down and make it look like it was a considered approach and that they gave him a fair, unbiased assessment.

If they now keep him, which I can't see, then it would be such a big mistake to go about it this way. To have a review of his position to begin with is a problem for ETH. If we heard this at another club we know the manager is about to get potted. But a review that takes so long just makes it look like they couldn't come up with anything else and pretty much had to keep him. It's already a potential bonfire lit for next season already, as soon as we start to lose one or two games. And what does ETH think of it? Does he want to work somewhere that doesn't really have confidence in him?

I know we have disagreed on our posts previously but this is precisely it. By doing this 2 week plus 3 month before the end of season review they are now backing themselves into a corner.

They have 2 options now. Sack him or give him a new contract.

Although, I have been saying, with the options available, I would rather keep him, giving him a new contract would be a mistake too because frankly he has not earnt it.

 

[glazed]

a higher defensive line isn't a good match for a team that wants to play fast and direct Football unless you are extremely good at pressing the opposition in their own third of the field, the two examples of that are Tottenham around 2016 and to some extent Liverpool since 2017-2018, but both teams packed their midfield and had midfielders that would rarely enter the final third which is the opposite of what we have done since the second half of last season.

You're slightly contradicting yourself by suggesting these teams pressed hard in final third but their midfielders rarely entered the final third? Maybe you mean only the front three pressed?

That aside I agree with you. We have immobile and positionally poor midfielders who are not good at recovering possession either. I still think ETH's system could work if it was with the right players and the right coaching and a defensive high line manned by the right people too. But that's too many ifs. He's basically asking too much of the players and they end up exhausted and demoralised.

 

[DontBeMeanToBeRuud]

As long as he stays away from dictating transfers except letting know which positions we need to strengthen in then i guess i can deal with him staying.

In my opinion he did better in his first season for this same reason - it was less of a Team with Ten Hag signings.

If our new DOF can dictate the signings maybe Ten Hag can improve performance of what he is left to deal with.

 

[Freak]

I know we have disagreed on our posts previously but this is precisely it. By doing this 2 week plus 3 month before the end of season review they are now backing themselves into a corner.

They have 2 options now. Sack him or give him a new contract.

Although, I have been saying, with the options available, I would rather keep him, giving him a new contract would be a mistake too because frankly he has not earnt it.

There is no reason for giving him a new contract now even if they would like to keep him. Assess how the team performs in the first half (or 3/4) of the season in terms of improvement, and style of play corresponding to how the club wants to play and then offer him a new contract if deemed necessary. If for some reason another club swoops in and offers him a contract elsewhere then so be it, we will find someone else then.

 

[romufc]

There is no reason for giving him a new contract now even if they would like to keep him. Assess how the team performs in the first half (or 3/4) of the season in terms of improvement, and style of play corresponding to how the club wants to play and then offer him a new contract if deemed necessary. If for some reason another club swoops in and offers him a contract elsewhere then so be it, we will find someone else then.

I know and I agree.

The point is reviewing a managers position for 2 weeks only to keep him is a farce.

Players, signings, agents will be all looking at this knowing that Manutd dont really want Ten Hag, its obvious. You dont conduct a 3 month review in season, then 2 weeks post the season to know if he is the man or not.

If they are taking this long deciding the current manager is good enough, how long do you think they will take to review, monitor, actively seek a new manager will take? 2,3,4 months?

 

[croadyman]

Tuchel would fall head over heels to get the job so surely not him.

I like the fact he really wants the job, however gut feeling is they have decided to keep Erik so will feel they don't need to announce anything

 

[JPRouve]

You're slightly contradicting yourself by suggesting these teams pressed hard in final third but their midfielders rarely entered the final third? Maybe you mean only the front three pressed?

That aside I agree with you. We have immobile and positionally poor midfielders who are not good at recovering possession either. I still think ETH's system could work if it was with the right players and the right coaching and a defensive high line manned by the right people too. But that's too many ifs. He's basically asking too much of the players and they end up exhausted and demoralised.

No I'm not contradicting myself. I said that they had midfielders that would rarely enter the final third, I didn't tell you that all their midfielders wouldn't. And no there isn't a set of right players that can make it work because you would literally need to have the same players at two places at the same time. He needed to tweak it and did that since late April.

Also it's not just them, typically the likes of Henderson, Verratti, Fabinho, Xabi, Busquets, Javi Martinez, Casemiro(Real Madrid), Kroos(outside of set pieces), Carrick and many others are players that don't actually play much in the final third.

 

[Amir]

Not taking any responsibility for the transfers should be the last drop! I can't believe the nerve of this fella

Did he do that? He was talking about the fees, not the transfers.

 

[croadyman]

Valid, and I’ve considered that angle, but now I’m looking at it like - “staying” is the default position, and it would be easier to act as if all the noise around Ten Hag was media speculation and the club was always intent on keeping him.

For clarification - I do think they’ve considered sacking, I just think people rallied around Ten Hag fiercely in a manner that they weren’t expecting to. No decision til now, doesn’t bode well for next season, so it might just be easier to keep Ten Hag, than getting someone else in with not a great deal of time to review/prepare and forecast for next season.

Oh yeah the main Utd fan channels and majority of matchgoers have been campaigning for it. They clearly don't want the backlash of those two parties so will take the safe option.

 

[Zed 101]

I am firmly in the Erixit camp and I have limited (actually zero) sympathy for him if he does get the boot, however am not impressed by INEOS handling of this they have had long enough to make a decision and either fire the guy or publicly support him

 

[ShinjiNinja26]

I also think the longer this drags on the more likely he’s staying. According to reports before the final he was as good as gone, and if they aren’t knee jerk and change their opinion on the back of one game then their minds should already be made up by now. I know there’s also the possibility they’re negotiating with another manager behind the scenes and are getting everything lined up first before pulling the trigger but I think that’s unlikely. It’s far too big a story for there not to be leaks of some sort coming out if that were the case.

 

[DSG]

Well, in one fell swoop, INEOS has managed to strangle all hope and promise.

We wanted an ownership group that was decisive, bold, analytically savvy, future-focused and organizationally sound.

Instead, we have Glazers 2.0. Weak, miserly, and incompetent.

Mediocrity. That’s who we are now. Emphatic signals that we won’t accept anything less than excellence throughout the organization, from managers, players, coaches and staff is what was needed. Instead, we are dithering around without direction. Sad.

 

[Freak]

I think they are not saying anything because there is nothing to say if they intend to keep him. Why release some public statement about our manager when he has a contract just because there is pressure from the outside to do so? Usually clubs only release statements for managerial sackings or hirings.

 

[RKEANE16]

Sick of the word review already. Review what? Takes like 30 seconds to see that he's a terrible manager.
At least we can add the word review to the list, what's that now?
Structure
Club's rotten
Open heart surgery
Under the bus
Downing tools
Style of play
Injuries
How can we expect to win without a recognised left back?
Process

 

[Red the Bear]

I like the fact he really wants the job, however gut feeling is they have decided to keep Erik so will feel they don't need to announce anything

Yeah could be that.

 

[JPRouve]

Well, in one fell swoop, INEOS has managed to strangle all hope and promise.

We wanted an ownership group that was decisive, bold, analytically savvy, future-focused and organizationally sound.

Instead, we have Glazers 2.0. Weak, miserly, and incompetent.

Mediocrity. That’s who we are now. Emphatic signals that we won’t accept anything less than excellence throughout the organization, from managers, players, coaches and staff is what was needed. Instead, we are dithering around without direction. Sad.

There is no need to meltdown. I don't think that they told anyone about the extent of the end of season audit and nothing prevents them from working on several fronts behind the scene regardless of their final decision.

 

[bringbackbebe]

Well, in one fell swoop, INEOS has managed to strangle all hope and promise.

We wanted an ownership group that was decisive, bold, analytically savvy, future-focused and organizationally sound.

Instead, we have Glazers 2.0. Weak, miserly, and incompetent.

Mediocrity. That’s who we are now. Emphatic signals that we won’t accept anything less than excellence throughout the organization, from managers, players, coaches and staff is what was needed. Instead, we are dithering around without direction. Sad.

All this because they're making a decision based on the information they possess after months of analytics and evaluation that could directly impact their stake at the club, does not agree your opinion?

 

[Marcelinho87]

Its embarrasing how long its taking to sort these things out, 4 months after starting negotiations we still havent reached an agreement with Newcastle for Dan Ashworth and now they are dragging this out as well.

Who are these 5 players under the age of 25 that they are supposedly signing?

This would be because we aren’t negotiating anymore, this is now in the hands of arbitration, keep up.

 

[Freak]

Well, in one fell swoop, INEOS has managed to strangle all hope and promise.

We wanted an ownership group that was decisive, bold, analytically savvy, future-focused and organizationally sound.

Instead, we have Glazers 2.0. Weak, miserly, and incompetent.

Mediocrity. That’s who we are now. Emphatic signals that we won’t accept anything less than excellence throughout the organization, from managers, players, coaches and staff is what was needed. Instead, we are dithering around without direction. Sad.

Dramatic much?

 

[evil_geko]

Well, in one fell swoop, INEOS has managed to strangle all hope and promise.

We wanted an ownership group that was decisive, bold, analytically savvy, future-focused and organizationally sound.

Instead, we have Glazers 2.0. Weak, miserly, and incompetent.

Mediocrity. That’s who we are now. Emphatic signals that we won’t accept anything less than excellence throughout the organization, from managers, players, coaches and staff is what was needed. Instead, we are dithering around without direction. Sad.

What a car crash of a post.

 

[RedRocket9908]

This would be because we aren’t negotiating anymore, this is now in the hands of arbitration, keep up.

It only went to abitration last week, it shouldnt take 4 months to secure an agreement for 1 member of staff, it should have been sorted with a month at most.

 

[Freak]

I also think the longer this drags on the more likely he’s staying. According to reports before the final he was as good as gone, and if they aren’t knee jerk and change their opinion on the back of one game then their minds should already be made up by now. I know there’s also the possibility they’re negotiating with another manager behind the scenes and are getting everything lined up first before pulling the trigger but I think that’s unlikely. It’s far too big a story for there not to be leaks of some sort coming out if that were the case.

These reports do not know what is going on - it's all just guesswork from journalists regardless of their credibility.

 

[Klean]

The Sun is having a right go at Ratcliffe today. Whoever wrote the article must have been on here looking for pointers.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/28272261/erik-ten-hag-ratcliffe-man-utd/

OOF. What a horrible piece of speculative journalism.

 

[romufc]

These reports do not know what is going on - it's all just guesswork from journalists regardless of their credibility.

So how do you know whats going on?

 

[Freak]

So how do you know whats going on?

Did I say I know?

 

[stevoc]

Why? Sir Jim literally prides himself on not being sentimental and being pure business, he references it in interviews himself. We got minimal bad press from LVG at the time because a) the media hounded LVG for months and b) Mou was widely celebrated, it was only retrospectively people cared. Also it was more for the way it was done, not the timing, with Woodward's masterclass in letting LVG's wife find out before he told him.

I think it's relatively obvious we aren't briefing the media, they are chasing their tails because they clearly don't have an IN at Ineos after years of getting swathes of information for leaks, it seems to have completely dried up now and so we have these vague open ended headlines, none of which has actually said anything.

Inoes have barely got their feet under the table. They have probably seen the sentiment amongst fans around keeping Ten Hag after the cup final win. So they will be mindful of repeating the sacking of Van Gaal right after a cup final and upsetting a section of the support.

If they are going to sack Ten Hag I think they'll want to let some time pass before announcing it.

 

[manichester]

Whichever way this goes the club look to be inept, Ashworth situation poorly handled and whatever they think of E.T.H. back him or sack him. Whatever deal this club is involved in there is a huge amount of them that, are always preparing, expecting readying etc.etc. a lot of reports maybe journalist speculation but it seem to have been a constant theme for many years. The one positive is that the leaks have possibly stopped but not to the stadium roof.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

And not even telling him that he's staying?

Would be suicidal ownership

Maybe he does know?

 

[stevoc]

They have been reviewing his position for months now. There were reports earlier in the year that Cox was in charge of speaking to staff and players in respects to the manager.

Who is Cox?

 

[Tincanalley]

Who is Cox?

Ucker. Took over Woodward’s old office.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

Has there ever been such a public "you were terrible this season but we're going to take a couple of weeks to consider it and we might let you off this time"?

Pretty bizarre at this point.

Won the FA Cup and had an unprecedented injury crisis.