Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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Keeping DeGea would have slowed down switching to the new strategy. He is just not comfortable on the ball, period.

Besides that, he made more and more mistakes and is hopeless on crosses.

It would be another pragmatic year.
As opposed to this shit show, give me ten pragmatic years.
 
Jesus Christ, do you even listen or you just read to respond. Let me try to say this slowly. When entering a summer window the football department is told how there is to spend before sales, please stay with me on this.

So far I am doing well, I am with you.


Knowing what they have the recruitment department including the manager and DOF discuss the positions they want to strengthen as a priority. They look at the players, the transfer pointman gets in touch with agents and they get informed on how much the club is likely to demand and the wage the player would accept. They formulate their own budget basing on the ceiling they got from the CEO.

Correct, Still with you.

In all this, for a man who demanded control of transfers, Ten Hag is supposed to know that if he spends 50m on Onana because he has let DDG go it would impact what the club can do in the market. Especially because we already spent outrageous figures the previous summer our budget can't be elastic. So by deciding to offload DDG he effectively denied himself another CB without selling Maguire

OK I am with you and understood, how about you understand me now? How comes a manager is allowed control of transfers in and not out? Because he wanted to sell Maguire?

The fact that we got to two finals, finished third and got to the quarters of the Europa means that DDG was still serviceable and therefore replacing him was not a priority. The fact that it was meant that we couldn't act decisively on other positions. Look at what Bayern had sacrifice to fund the signing of Kane. This is how the adult world works if you indulge yourself too much you lose out on other essentials.

Okay, firstly, DDG was on 375k a week, Onana is on 120k a week. If we gave DDG a 3 year contract it would cost us £58m over 3 years.

Onana was £43m and his wages are £18m for the 3 years - the difference is £3m

Okay. can you explain to me what Bayern sacrificed because I dont know this.

Now, I have read it slowly and answered you so how about you do the same with me? Instead of ignoring it answer my queries

You said DDG got Golden glove so he is good.. do you think Onana is better than Allison? Because he had more clean sheets?

Now this one I want you to answer in particular instead of reading to respond because I have read and listened to you.

I fact I'd keep Maguire and AWB as squad players even though we might have stylistic issues when we need to play them. Why? Because I'd rather be signing another striker, right winger and left back before I look for a back up Right Back or a third CB.

It is reported we have 3 main transfers for us this season, then like you say its the adult world and cant over indulge.

So we sign a ST, RW and LB and our budget goes.

We start next season with Lindelof and Lisandro as our CB pairing with Maguire backup? Are you honestly suggesting going into a season with 3 senior CB's? Really? Even if we overindulged you have a RB backup over a CB.

We need a minimum of 2 CB's this summer, here you are advocating us not to sign a CB.
 
OK I am with you and understood, how about you understand me now? How comes a manager is allowed control of transfers in and not out? Because he wanted to sell Maguire?



Okay, firstly, DDG was on 375k a week, Onana is on 120k a week. If we gave DDG a 3 year contract it would cost us £58m over 3 years.

Onana was £43m and his wages are £18m for the 3 years - the difference is £3m

Okay. can you explain to me what Bayern sacrificed because I dont know this.

Now, I have read it slowly and answered you so how about you do the same with me? Instead of ignoring it answer my queries

You said DDG got Golden glove so he is good.. do you think Onana is better than Allison? Because he had more clean sheets?

Now this one I want you to answer in particular instead of reading to respond because I have read and listened to you.
Ten Hag had/has control of players out. That's why we tried to sell Maguire and McTominay but negotiations broke down with whoever we were selling them to. He wanted them gone. Your point here makes no sense.


Secondly, De Gea's contract renewal was gonna be on wages closer to what Onana is on than what his previous contract would have been. So it's disingenuous to use the 375k wage in your calculations. You're being a bad actor there in trying to win a point, using incorrect/outdated info. Also, Bayern's transfer of Kane meant that they couldn't get all the transfers done that Tuchel wanted. He has no control of transfers at Bayern though so he couldn't stop the transfer of Kane anyway like ETH could with Antony.
 
No.

Now let me put perspective and context into this because you have failed to. Ten Hag came in in summer of 22 and gave the board a list of targets. He fecked up on FDJ. Anthony was valued at 40m in June. According you, Ten Hag thought that was cheap, so he decided to wait until August when the season started to buy Anthony for 80m. Thats what you think right?



Yes.

Do you think that a club of Manchester United's size who has so many scouts goes Mr. Manager, transfer window has opened, give me players you want, then gets them at any cost? OR do you think they do their own due diligence?



Yes.

It was close to end of transfer window and he wanted a RW. Do you think Ten Hag knowing Anthony will join, Ten Hag purposely decided to wait 3 months to sign him?

I don't know why you keep making ridiculous or false strawman arguments to express your points. Did I say or allude to him thinking it cheap and waiting? It's not even inferred.

He made the decision as a grown man in a senior role not to get the club to explore alternatives because Anthony was taking so long. That's not just on the club it's on him as well. This hand a list in and wait isn't how any organisation works.

Of course the club does it's due diligence but ultimately he had a veto he didn't use. It doesn't swerve criticism against him, he still made various decisions that ended up with us overpaying or getting in players for a lot of money where money would be better spent elsewhere.

Now if he had told the club he didn't want to be involved in signings he'd be absolved of all sin but it's the opposite.
 
Ten Hag had/has control of players out. That's why we tried to sell Maguire and McTominay but negotiations broke down with whoever we were selling them to. He wanted them gone. Your point here makes no sense.


Secondly, De Gea's contract renewal was gonna be on wages closer to what Onana is on than what his previous contract would have been. So it's disingenuous to use the 375k wage in your calculations. You're being a bad actor there in trying to win a point, using incorrect/outdated info. Also, Bayern's transfer of Kane meant that they couldn't get all the transfers done that Tuchel wanted. He has no control of transfers at Bayern though so he couldn't stop the transfer of Kane anyway like ETH could with Antony.

Have you got proof of this?

So Ten Hag over negotiated incomings or more but couldnt sell Maguire and Mcrominay?

So are you saying Tuchel didnt want Kane? He got Kim and Sacha Boey.

Okay, I am using incorrect information, can you show me any report or evidence suggesting we offered him a lower fee. Its like Varane, he didnt want a lower wage.
 
I have been away since the cup win. I saw Bayern sorted their situation out. Mourinho got a new job as well.
What’s the doorstopper? Tuchel is waiting.
 
This is true.. and I actually think he’s getting sacked anyway, or why haven’t they backed him yet? They are clearly looking at options

Well, either they are just undecided , or they are decided on letting him go and undecided about his replacement.

I think it's the former. I honestly think they're not sure what to do.
 
Any idea when ETH will be back from his holidays? Maybe the club will only announce the decision one way or another when he is back.
 
We all know he was going to be sacked after the final all they’re showing is incompetence at this stage. It’s turning into a farce.

First real hurdle and they can’t get a decision together
 
For 12 years Manchester United footb


People making it out as if we are small club that get bullied by managers. This is Manchester United, where certain fans (not you) have been crying for a structure.

The reason for a structure?
1. To stop paying excessive fees
2. Identify talent
3. Negotiate and get transfers
4. Negotiate contracts
5. Sell players

I really cant believe how many fans actually think the manager decides what transfer fee is, wages are and who gets sold.

If the manager had all this autonomy as you are claiming, Ronaldo, AWB, Maguire, McTominay would not be at this club in his first season. But ofcourse, he only had a say in incomings not outgoings?

Anthony was valued at 40m and then Ten Hag decided that was too cheap, so decided to wait till August and pay 80m.
Nobody thinks that.
 
So far I am doing well, I am with you.




Correct, Still with you.



OK I am with you and understood, how about you understand me now? How comes a manager is allowed control of transfers in and not out? Because he wanted to sell Maguire?



Okay, firstly, DDG was on 375k a week, Onana is on 120k a week. If we gave DDG a 3 year contract it would cost us £58m over 3 years.

Onana was £43m and his wages are £18m for the 3 years - the difference is £3m

Okay. can you explain to me what Bayern sacrificed because I dont know this.

Now, I have read it slowly and answered you so how about you do the same with me? Instead of ignoring it answer my queries

You said DDG got Golden glove so he is good.. do you think Onana is better than Allison? Because he had more clean sheets?

Now this one I want you to answer in particular instead of reading to respond because I have read and listened to you.



It is reported we have 3 main transfers for us this season, then like you say its the adult world and cant over indulge.

So we sign a ST, RW and LB and our budget goes.

We start next season with Lindelof and Lisandro as our CB pairing with Maguire backup? Are you honestly suggesting going into a season with 3 senior CB's? Really? Even if we overindulged you have a RB backup over a CB.

We need a minimum of 2 CB's this summer, here you are advocating us not to sign a CB.
The three main signings are before sales right? So we get a CB, DM and Striker first and if we sell say Greenwood and Sancho we get another RW, if we sell McT we get a LB and if someone comes in for Maguire then maybe we can start thinking about selling him and AWB. Pretty simple really.

The point here is don't sell or release a player you are going to exhaust the budget replacing. Onana hasn't moved the needle as far as performances and results are concerned, he had also match costing errors but I am fine with him for the time being but I don't agree with the thought process that led to his signing as DDG had agreed a new contract on reduced terms and spending a fee on his replacement came at an opportunity cost that hurt us more.
 
It’s pretty poor from INEOS to keep ETH hanging like this. If this was the glazers they’d be getting a lot of stick for it. We’re nearly a week after the final and nothings been said or done. If we’re not sacking him then make a statement and say this is what we’re going to do etc. but to leave a guy without a clue of what’s going on with his future is poor in my opinion.
 
If true it suggests keeping Ten Hag = changing transfer targets = setting the club back

Amrabat and Brobbey will be on tenterhooks
Of course targets will be different if ETH stays as he’s going to have very specific needs and demands for his acquisitions, and it’s the club’s job to support him to get those players in. Another manager may want different players, or different types of players if he doesn’t go for specific targets.

We can’t keep him and then tell him ‘we are getting the players we want and you have to integrate them into the team’, that would never work.
 
It’s pretty poor from INEOS to keep ETH hanging like this. If this was the glazers they’d be getting a lot of stick for it. We’re nearly a week after the final and nothings been said or done. If we’re not sacking him then make a statement and say this is what we’re going to do etc. but to leave a guy without a clue of what’s going on with his future is poor in my opinion.
Agree

Said before, even if we decide to keep him then he’s going to know that there is a lot of doubt about him from above

The only way the delay over a decision will make a bit of sense is if Ten Hag is sacked and immediately replaced. At least that’ll show they were getting things done behind the scenes. Otherwise I’m not sure what is going on
 
Are we certain that we are keeping ETH hanging? Isn't a far more likely solution they already know what is going to happen and we are just waiting for the right time?

We don't have to say everything to the press in advance. The club might know exactly what is happening.
 
For 12 years Manchester United footb


People making it out as if we are small club that get bullied by managers. This is Manchester United, where certain fans (not you) have been crying for a structure.

The reason for a structure?
1. To stop paying excessive fees
2. Identify talent
3. Negotiate and get transfers
4. Negotiate contracts
5. Sell players

I really cant believe how many fans actually think the manager decides what transfer fee is, wages are and who gets sold.

If the manager had all this autonomy as you are claiming, Ronaldo, AWB, Maguire, McTominay would not be at this club in his first season. But ofcourse, he only had a say in incomings not outgoings?

Anthony was valued at 40m and then Ten Hag decided that was too cheap, so decided to wait till August and pay 80m.
Ten Hag’s veto power over transfer dealings has been covered extensively in the media. To assume that acquisitions and transactions, negotiations, scouting all operate in a silo with no interaction with first team coaches is absurd. Ten Hag and the football operations team were handed a budget. Ten Hag was aware the 80m spent on Antony affected his ability to add another CB or an LB.

Veto power is veto power. He can say no or yes to any proposed transfer dealing. He doesn’t deserve all the blame for these transfers, but he deserves some of the blame.

I don’t think we had a crack scouting team over the last 12 years, but we’ve had good buys as well. Are we worse than Brighton? Yes. Are we better than Everton? Yes.

Hopefully INEOS will build a world class scouting team and academy.
 
It’s pretty poor from INEOS to keep ETH hanging like this. If this was the glazers they’d be getting a lot of stick for it. We’re nearly a week after the final and nothings been said or done. If we’re not sacking him then make a statement and say this is what we’re going to do etc. but to leave a guy without a clue of what’s going on with his future is poor in my opinion.
Agree with this.
I think he should be sacked, but if they choose to continue with him then this uncertainty will surely undermine his authority next season.
 
That's what doesn't make sense about the tweet. I thought we were moving to a system where the manager had less influence over transfers and most of the decisions would be made by the new hierarchy.

I'm sure that's the long term plan, but the new system won't be in place this summer - the key personnel aren't in post yet.

It will be next summer before we can begin judge how well it's working.
 
Have you got proof of this?

So Ten Hag over negotiated incomings or more but couldnt sell Maguire and Mcrominay?

So are you saying Tuchel didnt want Kane? He got Kim and Sacha Boey.

Okay, I am using incorrect information, can you show me any report or evidence suggesting we offered him a lower fee. Its like Varane, he didnt want a lower wage.
It was literally reported by a credible source that De Gea was agreeing on a lower wage and then the club reneged.

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/4643729/2023/06/27/david-de-gea-manchester-united-contract-offer/

David de Gea signed a contract extension with Manchester United only for the club to back out of the agreed proposal.

De Gea, 32, agreed to a drastic reduction on his current £375,000 per week wages, but the club did not sign the contract.

Also, ETH wouldn't be the one doing the negotiating but as he had a veto he would obviously be aware of what was up. He's not an idiot. Your point regarding McTominay and Maguire doesn't make sense BTW. You can't force players to leave. Much easier to bring in players.

I have no clue whether Tuchel wanted Kane or not, I just know he wasn't happy that he didn't get all the players he wanted and signing Kane would have impacted that.
 
If he has a veto on players he by definition has a veto on overspending on players. Unless you want to argue that while vetoing or okaying targets he does not spare a thought on how targets he okays affect the budget allocation between targets and target areas, in which case he would be an irresponsible fool.

So it's EtH job now to stop the club from overspending and control the finances and budget :lol: ok
 
Are we certain that we are keeping ETH hanging? Isn't a far more likely solution they already know what is going to happen and we are just waiting for the right time?

We don't have to say everything to the press in advance. The club might know exactly what is happening.
The right times right now. We don’t wanna leave it to late where most of our squad are playing in the euros and could be distracted by the news. It’s better everyone knows what’s going on asap and i would imagine it would have been done before the 1st june. Then we can’t start preparing for the window with either ETH or a new manager.
 
We all know he was going to be sacked after the final all they’re showing is incompetence at this stage. It’s turning into a farce.

First real hurdle and they can’t get a decision together

We don't know this at all. Not as a fact. Two people said it and it was rinse and repeated by every other paper.
 
Are we certain that we are keeping ETH hanging? Isn't a far more likely solution they already know what is going to happen and we are just waiting for the right time?

We don't have to say everything to the press in advance. The club might know exactly what is happening.
True. United don't have to give a running commentary on anything. They don't have to respond to media speculation as that would set a precedent. They can complete the review and say nothing to the media.
 
They need to sack him ASAP, the new manager will need time to identify his transfer targets and with the Euros this summer there is even less time.
 
True. United don't have to give a running commentary on anything. They don't have to respond to media speculation as that would set a precedent. They can complete the review and say nothing to the media.

This

It actually baffles me people think there is going to be some sort of press release with SJR saying "yeah we actually have decided to keep EtH"

I'm not sure what planet people are on.

If he stays, nothing will be said. It will be business as usual. If they did plan to sack him or not we will never know.
 
Are we certain that we are keeping ETH hanging? Isn't a far more likely solution they already know what is going to happen and we are just waiting for the right time?

We don't have to say everything to the press in advance. The club might know exactly what is happening.

Why would the timing be a problem? The FA cup final was almost a week ago.
 
Another aspect to consider is that ETH’s contract might be in the process of restructuring due to new structure above him, and hasn’t been finished or agreed upon. Would make sense if his primary role is that of a coach. And at the same time, negotiating terms with Tuchel for example.
 
Another aspect to consider is that ETH’s contract might be in the process of restructuring due to new structure above him, and hasn’t been finished or agreed upon. Would make sense if his primary role is that of a coach. And at the same time, negotiating terms with Tuchel for example.
He already has a contract though. It would make sense if his contract was up end of June or something, but its next year.
 
Still nothing on this from the club and/or INEOS, I think we all know he is gone at this point (apparently Benni McCarthy's agent pretty much confirmed it) so why the long delay in announcing it, this whole saga is getting more and more ridiculous by the day.
 
He already has a contract though. It would make sense if his contract was up end of June or something, but its next year.
I understand that, but if players can get new contracts a year or two before theirs expires, why not for managers too since it’s expected he will have a reduced role (as a head coach) and not have the same power to dictate things like transfers for example?
 
I understand that, but if players can get new contracts a year or two before theirs expires, why not for managers too since it’s expected he will have a reduced role (as a head coach) and not have the same power to dictate things like transfers for example?
Oh yeah I see what you mean. Not his current deal but a new contract for another three years or something with new terms? Maybe.

Options are he agrees or;

He doesn't sign in which case they are deciding sack and pay off or run down his current deal?
 
To me, they've either decided to sack him and want this post-FA Cup support to die down or they're sticking to their "its not the coaches fault" line and they're keeping him. I very much doubt there's this investigation like the media are banging on about.
 
Oh yeah I see what you mean. Not his current deal but a new contract for another three years or something with new terms? Maybe.

Options are he agrees or;

He doesn't sign in which case they are deciding sack and pay off or run down his current deal?
Pretty much but I doubt it would be anything like a 3 year extension.
 
So it's EtH job now to stop the club from overspending and control the finances and budget :lol: ok
Nonsensical post, how do you go to such extremes. There is no way Manchester United would spend a fee that busts the budget and not inform the manager of the developments and it's implications on subsequent moves. That would be Woodwardsque but ETH wasn't dealing with Woodward and Jose bemoans the support ETH got because he knows he didn't have it and it could have ended differently otherwise.
 
Are we certain that we are keeping ETH hanging? Isn't a far more likely solution they already know what is going to happen and we are just waiting for the right time?

We don't have to say everything to the press in advance. The club might know exactly what is happening.
100% it is like that. The most plausible scenario is that they have decided to sack him, probably a while ago as would be reasonably expected, and are waiting for a more tactful point in time for the announcement than right after a Cup win that was a genuinely enjoyable moment for the team, the manager, and us fans.
 
So it's EtH job now to stop the club from overspending and control the finances and budget :lol: ok
Nope, but as a manager with a final say on transfers it is certainly part of his job to keep in mind that spending 100m€ on Anthony, 60m€ on Mount and 75m€ on Hojlund will come at the detriment of other targets. He was involved in the transfers, he is not blameless in the transfers. Easy as that.
 
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