Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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I'm concerned the longer it drags the less organised we'll be in the summer window, having clarity on who the manager will be will let us to plan for our priorities in the window according to his style.

But when does it really "drag on"? ETH lifted the FA Cup on Saturday, had a proper go at his wife all weekend, and although the announcement could have made on Monday there is general consensus that doing so would have been disrespectful, if not cruel. Today is Thursday. The weekend is coming up and it would be highly irregular to sack someone on a weekend.

Monday/Tuesday next week seems the right time frame to announce whatever the decision is.
 
This I’m actually fine with. He’s being very honest in that his goal is to be a 5th - 6th placed team they can push for 4th if they get near perfect injury record and get their signings spot on. That will probably where he would want us to establish us long term, with a cup run here and there, so at least we know what we are looking at here in terms of realistic expectations.

Most of our fanbase would be completely fine with it, and it’s up to our new owners to determine whether it’s acceptable for them as well.
Our of curiosity, how many times has Ten Hag finished outside top 3 in his managerial career?
 
This I’m actually fine with. He’s being very honest in that his goal is to be a 5th - 6th placed team they can push for 4th if they get near perfect injury record and get their signings spot on. That will probably where he would want us to establish us long term, with a cup run here and there, so at least we know what we are looking at here in terms of realistic expectations.

Most of our fanbase would be completely fine with it
, and it’s up to our new owners to determine whether it’s acceptable for them as well.
Right.
 
The nonsense that gets spouted. Manager who finishes top 3 in all seasons of coaching bar 1 suddenly is a seriel loser that always targets underperformance.

The mental gymnastics is real.
I'm just amazed that people actually type this shit out (presumably) with a straight face.

Though not suprising to see that this guy can't see how good Martinez is either.
 
Not really he wasn’t. Rashford was (insane to claim anyone other than him was our POTY last year), then probably Bruno and Casemiro, and then maybe you can have a talk about Martinez.

He only featured in 27 of 38 games last year too, and had at least 4-5 complete stinkers so to say he was our best, most consistent and most important player is well over the top.
He really didn’t have 4-5 stinkers at all. Rashford was a brilliant goal threat last season but was nowhere near as consistent in his overall play. Martinez made us tick last season and that’s even more obvious now.
 
Tbf it was a Talksport interview with Simon Jordan and Jim White so he was being asked a bunch of questions. The majority of his answers showed why he probably should not have been back at United under Ole...

Yes, fair enough - like I said, of course it's perfectly natural for him to offer his opinion.

I've nothing against Phelan. I actually like him (well, I like his shorts anyway). But the point is that when it comes to expertise on how to maintain a highly successful football club at the very highest level...I don't think he has it.

He wasn't that guy then - and he obviously isn't that guy now.

We know who the guy was - Phelan was a sergeant of some sort to that guy. A sergeant could possibly (even likely) be completely useless if you're asking advice on how to win a war.
 
Our of curiosity, how many times has Ten Hag finished outside top 3 in his managerial career?
All of his seasons at Utrecht and half of his two seasons at United.

He’s managed Ajax for most of his career, a team that has finished outside top 3 twice in the last 25 years, had not finished below 3rd since 2006 before this season.
 
All of his seasons at Utrecht and half of his two seasons at United.

He’s managed Ajax for most of his career, a team that has finished outside top 3 twice in the last 25 years, had not finished below 3rd since 2006 before this season.
Thanks. So he's won leagues or finished runner up or top 3 in every season bar this one.

And you think his personal ambition and target going forward is top 6.

Thanks, checks out.
 
Yet Spurs beat Ajax in the semis of the CL in 2019.

Ajax gave away a 2 goal lead to lose 3-2.

Very difficult to judge Ten Hag at Ajax v Poch at Spurs. Two very different clubs in different leagues, with different expectations and relative resources.
Yet you did compare them and we know who won trophies at their respective clubs. Yes Pochettino did win a trophy at PSG I believe and Ajax is an easier club to manage than Spurs but it feels like it would be a sideways move. He didn’t even do a good job at Chelsea - would be just like us to get a manager on the wane.
 
He really didn’t have 4-5 stinkers at all. Rashford was a brilliant goal threat last season but was nowhere near as consistent in his overall play. Martinez made us tick last season and that’s even more obvious now.
City, Liverpool, Brentford I’m not even how you could possibly question he was very poor in, likewise Villa where we lost 3-1.
 
City, Liverpool, Brentford I’m not even how you could possibly question he was very poor in, likewise Villa where we lost 3-1.
Liverpool was the only really poor individual display for me and even then the whole team collapsed. Brentford was overblown and part of the initial thinking at the time that he was “too small and too weak to play in the prem”. Individually watch that back and he played well. I don’t think he dropped below a 7/10 all season bar that Liverpool game.
 
Thanks. So he's won leagues or finished runner up or top 3 in every season bar this one.

And you think his personal ambition and target going forward is top 6.

Thanks, checks out.

Don’t know how you came to a conclusion that he never finished below top 3 before this season when he finished there in all his seasons at Utrecht and was in 6th when he moved mid-season to Ajax.
 
Liverpool was the only really poor individual display for me and even then the whole team collapsed. Brentford was overblown and part of the initial thinking at the time that he was “too small and too weak to play in the prem”. Individually watch that back and he played well. I don’t think he dropped below a 7/10 all season bar that Liverpool game.
He played well in a game where we were 4-0 down at half time when he was taken off and he was directly responsible for at least two of the goals?
 
He played well in a game where we were 4-0 down at half time when he was taken off and he was directly responsible for at least two of the goals?
He wasn’t a fault for two goals but fine. Clearly not going to agree on this. That’s fine, I just hope he plays consistently because he’s easily the best CB I’ve seen at Utd since Rio/vidic.
 
Also both his seasons as manager of Bayern II. He managed two fifth place finishes in the Regionalliga (fourth tier, semi-professional) with the reserves of the biggest club in Germany.
I didn’t even check that, thanks.

So basically he has finished below top 3 in about half his seasons as a professional manager.
 
I didn’t even check that, thanks.

So basically he has finished below top 3 in about half his seasons as a professional manager.
Was wrong, sorry, he finished 1st and 2nd there... the table I checked was sorted for transfer value, so that was actually good.

But he failed the promotion playoffs.
 
I didn’t even check that, thanks.

So basically he has finished below top 3 in about half his seasons as a professional manager.
It's not correct. He won the league in his first season, but failed in the promotion playoffs.

The one who actually got Bayern II promoted a couple of years later is now the manager of Stuttgart who beat Bayern to 2nd place in Bundesliga..
 
Was wrong, sorry, he finished 1st and 2nd there... the table I checked was sorted for transfer value, so that was actually good.

But he failed the promotion playoffs.
Ah okay. As I said, I didn’t check that. Don’t pay much attention to that.

Anyway, he did finish below top 3 at Utrecht - which is of course fine because they are well below the big 3 and AZ in Dutch league in terms of resources.

He wouldn’t have been able to finish below 3rd with Ajax, don’t think any manager would have been able to do that with them at the time.
 
Ah okay. As I said, I didn’t check that. Don’t pay much attention to that.

Anyway, he did finish below top 3 at Utrecht - which is of course fine because they are well below the big 3 and AZ in Dutch league in terms of resources.

He wouldn’t have been able to finish below 3rd with Ajax, don’t think any manager would have been able to do that with them at the time.
Do you understand the point though. Insinuating his ambition is top 6 when he's effectively over performed expectation in most his years of management is hugely far fetched.
 
United is atm in a total transformation process.

We’re changing personnel on almost every important level from top to bottom. New part owners. New top management including a new DoF. A new medical expert. Our squad is on a major rebuild where we’re losing tons of experience, occasionally world class quality and some players who have been with us since Sir Alex days.

We’re losing Varane, Evans and Martial, potentially Casemiro and Eriksen, probably one of Lindelöf or Maguire and maybe some or one of the home grown players. I don’t count Greenwood and Sancho as significant losses but in fairness we lose two great talents, even if their off the field characters are more than questionable.

On top of that a lot of employee’s at our club are potentially losing their incomes over the summer. That’s is a huge transformation for any company of any size.

Because of all the above reasons I think that this summer changing manager isn’t optimal and I suspect that at least Blanc has similar thoughts.

If I look at the list of potential new managers then none of them look’s inspiring enough to jump on the Ten Hag out bandwagon. Our results in this seasons PL was most of the time horrible, minus in goal difference is a huge red flag but on the other side we won against probably the best team in the world in the biggest and most important game of the season.

Things that probably is in his favor.

Had a crucial part in Garnacho and Mainoo’s development into first squad players, then starters. Martinez and Dalot look to be on his side. Hojlund, Onana and Mount was signed under his watch. He made Bruno our captain.

From the outside it looks like that the core of the team is his guys and probably is behind keeping him. Question marks of Shaw and Rashford commitment if he stays but assume they request a transfer if they’re not happy enough with him staying.

My bet is that we keep him another season and if things go well before Christmas we offer him a new contract, if not we he will be gone in 2025.
 
I’m one of those fans who has tipped over into give him a new season under new leadership.

I’ve hated this season, hated the performances and been flabbergasted by the tactical set ups he persisted with in the absence of any logic. I don’t buy into the injuries thing as I blame it on the way we have set up anyway. When you concede more shots than any other team in the western hemisphere then your defenders are flying around and are going to pick up knocks.

I wanted him gone.

Then I went to Wembley with my son and saw us set up extremely smartly to beat city. With the same tactics that have reaped some benefits over the last month.

I know it shouldn’t have such a huge sway but I’m a romantic and we won’t get to beat city that often and I really want to hold onto a manager for more than 12 months.

I’m probably prove myself wrong…
 
He wasn’t a fault for two goals but fine. Clearly not going to agree on this. That’s fine, I just hope he plays consistently because he’s easily the best CB I’ve seen at Utd since Rio/vidic.
I misremembered their second, less of his fault, he was definitely at fault for the third and could have done better for 4th (badly positioned). Definitely did not ‘play very well’ or ‘had at least 7/10 performance’, as evidenced by him being taken off at half time.

To say he played well against City when we conceded 6 but should have really conceded more is strange too.

He also missed a third of season (in which we actually conceded fewer goals per game) so you are suggesting Martinez is realistically worth 30 points a year.
 
Very difficult to judge Ten Hag at Ajax v Poch at Spurs. Two very different clubs in different leagues, with different expectations and relative resources.

True.

What I don't get - personally - is the oddly high regard ETH's semi-final "achievement" is held in.

His Ajax team (which had impressed people, sure - they looked like a fine unit) basically...bottled it (yes) against...Tottenham of all teams.

They bottled it in a much more meaningful sense than Tottenham themselves supposedly bottled it against Liverpool in the final.

Whatever - it's a cheap shot against ETH, I suppose.

And - no - I am not a Poch fan. I hope he stays far away from United.
 
Do you understand the point though. Insinuating his ambition is top 6 when he's effectively over performed expectation in most his years of management is hugely far fetched.
What do you think the expectations were at Ajax?

He himself said that if everyone is healthy our goal is top 4 next year (so with some injuries it should be lower).
 
If someone was a good manager 10 years ago, that does not mean he is a good manager now... Jose, Conte are all examples.

I mean he literally got beat by kids in the League cup this season as well.

He had the most injuries than any team? I think you need to check that. Lets also not forget he had a bigger and better squad.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cq55wy2qx21o

Where he had Lavia and Lesley missing all season he had £200m of talent to call upon in midfield in Caceido and Enzo.

Significant upgrade based on what? He got a team 7 years ago to a CL final?
https://www.givemesport.com/every-premier-league-team-ranked-injuries-suffered/
 
What do you think the expectations were at Ajax?

He himself said that if everyone is healthy our goal is top 4 next year (so with some injuries it should be lower).
And top 4 is reasonable given the squad quality.

I think the league was expected at Ajax. They were close but didn't win it in 5 years before he came. The back to back doubles were superb for Ajax. Unsure how often managers generally do that. I also think expectation from most neutrals was not to have him comfortably finish in top 4 last year but he did, and he won a cup with two finals. Fair to say he exceeded it last season.

In any case it doesn't change this season as a failure. I'm in agreement there.

What I don't get is why you question his ambition from one bad season. It's just odd.
 
So the football guy with pedigree at clubs wants to keep Ten Hag. The cyclist guy with a track record of changing too much too quickly at Nice wants to get rid.

Checks out.

That's not what playing devils advocate means.....

If Blanc wants him in, it means others want him out. That means Wilcox, and I think it's safe to assume Ashworth, want him out.

So the football people we actually employ vs the guy who's headed up Ineos sport and hasn't exactly been masterminding any success for them.
 
I’m still reeling from Jason Wilcox being our technical director. Does he have anything to do with this decision?
 
That's not what playing devils advocate means.....

If Blanc wants him in, it means others want him out. That means Wilcox, and I think it's safe to assume Ashworth, want him out.

So the football people we actually employ vs the guy who's headed up Ineos sport and hasn't exactly been masterminding any success for them.
Where are you getting Wilcox and Ashworth want him out? Ashworth isn't even at the club.

Is this more guesstimating? What is this actually based on?
 
What do you think the expectations were at Ajax?

He himself said that if everyone is healthy our goal is top 4 next year (so with some injuries it should be lower).
I think that there is no doubt that Ten Hag is ambitious and wants to win. Surely lack of ambition is no stick to beat him with.
 
Where are you getting Wilcox and Ashworth want him out? Ashworth isn't even at the club.

Is this more guesstimating? What is this actually based on?

I think it's fairly safe to assume:

1 - Ten Hag wouldn't be the new guys' first choice.

2 - Often in American sport (much more sample size of having a strong front office in charge with a coach rather than a powerful manager) but obviously it's a different sport/culture, the new front office gives the existing coach a chance but doesn't back him in terms of making squad moves that he wants or that suit him perfectly, just gets on with trying to get the best talent/assets, and then if that existing coach succeeds you're in a good place for at least a little while, and if he fails, nobody blames you since you didn't pick him, and you can fire him and bring in your own selection as coach anyways. This risk having a season where you have to fire the coach mid-season and it's chaotic, but that's often a secondary concern.

3 - We don't really know what our front office wants to do yet.
 
Where are you getting Wilcox and Ashworth want him out? Ashworth isn't even at the club.

Is this more guesstimating? What is this actually based on?

I could be wrong but if one person is pushing for something that is the de facto situation then it means that someone else is pushing for something else. Otherwise why would Blanc be pushing to keep someone that is under contract?
 
I think that there is no doubt that Ten Hag is ambitious and wants to win. Surely lack of ambition is no stick to beat him with.
I think he’s quite realistic, and he also gives me the vibe of a manager that wants to protect his reputation and legacy (hence blaming of injuries, blaming players, citing lack of quality and toning down the expectations). Not necessarily a bad thing.
 
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