Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[GreenHeron]

The problem that people clamouring for change overlook, is that the footballing structure at the club is a mess. The scouting system is awful, the treatment of staff is awful, the ground is falling to bits, the training ground is fraying at the edges, the youth academy is OK but falling behind others, and we'd honestly be better with Harold Shipman as head of our medical team - at least that way we'd know players weren't fit!

The natural result of this is that the manager's responsibilities are so much greater at Man Utd compared to other more functional clubs. And if we get rid of the manager, everything will change, and we'll be back to square one from the playing front. We simply can't compare ourselves to the Real Madrids, Dortmunds and Bayerns, where the footballing structure is really strong and well established, and they can happily hire and fire head coaches without it having a meaningful effect on the infrastructure.

We can compare ourselves to Chelsea, who are similarly structureless and dysfunctional behind the scenes. They certainly change their managers regularly, but I'm not sure we'd want to copy them?

The ETH pros and cons are well rehearsed, I've nothing to add here, they're mostly valid views on both sides. He's proved he can win stuff (and that's REALLY important), but the league campaign's been a shocker, and that's important too. I just think the priority for the club, and INEOS, is to get the infrastructure right, get the facilities, the scouting, the footballing oversight and the medical team where they need to be. I'm glad this is happening. If ETH can't perform with this behind him next year, then he shouldn't have his contract renewed and he should leave. I don't think we should offer a contract extension. But I don't think things are so bad that we need to tear everything up and start again at the same time as we're trying to build a Premier League standard infrastructure.

 

[pocco]

Oh haha. In 21/22 Ajax won the league with 3 losses and a +79 gd. In the CL group stage they won all six games convincingly.

That is hardly indicative of a poor season. Honestly, the bs in here…

Listen it's not my opinion, but what they were saying is that there was a considerable fall off in his last season in terms of performances, and that they scraped over the line by 2 points. PSV just had 1 loss and +90 GD, with a worse team in Eredivisie. Perhaps we should employ Bosz?

 

[Oldyella]

https://www.manutd.com/en/news/detail/john-murtough-praises-united-fans-impact

“We talk to players and we talk to our coaching staff about playing fast, fluid attacking football, so when we link across all the age groups, there's a thread that runs through the football club.”

Would suggest to me he did.

Fair enough. But if that was what he was trying to influence, I hoped it worked for the other age groups because that doesn't sound like the first team at all!

I never wanted VC. But for some odd reason, I sense he might do okay at Bayern.

Same here. No logic too it.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

According to Ajax fans on here, his last season at Ajax the football wasn't good. So Ten Hag has had his team playing well for about 3 or 4 months out of the last 3 years

But he scraped through some non league opposition in the FA Cup, hit peak Oleball in the final to win it, and now he's the man to take us forward. OK then.

I mean, Ole had a better record against City. We wanted to move away from 20% possession though. Or maybe not.

 

[Rapsel]

Oh haha. In 21/22 Ajax won the league with 3 losses and a +79 gd. In the CL group stage they won all six games convincingly.

That is hardly indicative of a poor season. Honestly, the bs in here…

The main criticism Ajax supporters had were the football getting worse and the results were squeezed out at end of the 21/22 season, him playing Kudus way too little even when fit. Also going out of the CL against Benfica unnecessarily after 6 wins in the group stage was mostly because of his tactics. In a way we had gotten a little spoiled but there was no denying it got a lot worse after the winter break that season.

 

[pocco]

The main criticism Ajax supporters had were the football getting worse and the results were squeezed out at end of the 21/22 season, him playing Kudus way too little even when fit. Also going out of the CL against Benfica unnecessarily after 6 wins in the group stage was mostly because of his tactics. In a way we had gotten a little spoiled but there was no denying it got a lot worse after the winter break that season.

Didn't they lose in the cup final too, after leading? I vaguely remember people on here getting a bit worried about their performances towards the end, particularly that game.

 

[ForeverRed1]

The amount this poll has shifted following the cup final is just laughable. We played well in a one off game in a similar fashion to our good performances under ole against city

This doesn't negate the crap we have seen all season

I think people are looking at the fact he’s got us to 3 cup finals, winning two of them along with the fact he has had to deal with so much and there isn’t a magic wand to suddenly make us world beaters. Is it better to really start over again? Or give him a third season? Let’s see how we do next season with hopefully a better injury record (can’t be guarenteed of course) and support via ineos. I genuinely think we’ll see better football next season if we can sort a few of the issues out this summer.

 

[Amir]

But I don't think things are so bad that we need to tear everything up and start again at the same time as we're trying to build a Premier League standard infrastructure.

Aside from the changes in infrastructure and all the new people coming and finding their feet, there's likely to be a big change in the squad as well. Stability is going out the window this summer anyway, footballing wise as well. So I don't think that should be a major considering point when it comes to the manager.

 

[Amir]

I think people are looking at the fact he’s got us to 3 cup finals, winning two of them

And prior to this match we already knew he got us to 3 finals and won at least 1. So again, yes, it is winning that one match that brought this ridiculous turnaround (And I'm saying that as someone who can see the reasoning in keeping ETH).

 

[macheda14]

According to Ajax fans on here, his last season at Ajax the football wasn't good. So Ten Hag has had his team playing well for about 3 or 4 months out of the last 3 years

But he scraped through some non league opposition in the FA Cup, hit peak Oleball in the final to win it, and now he's the man to take us forward. OK then.

According to other Ajax fans he’s the best manager they’ve had in 20 years and an absolute genius. You can pick and choose your thoughts.

 

[pocco]

Aside from the changes in infrastructure and all the new people coming and finding their feet, there's likely to be a big change in the squad as well. Stability is going out the window this summer anyway, footballing wise as well. So I don't think that should be a major considering point when it comes to the manager.

I think this is an important point for INEOS. Next season is pretty much going to be a write off anyway by the looks of it. If you're rebuilding for the future, and want to change the way we play football, then you might as well have a coach that you could see being involved in that. Ten Hag improving a bit next year is irrelevant really, it's about whether he is even the man they see a vision with in the long run. If not, then what would be the point in even keeping him involved in this rebuild? Go with somebody whose vision and ideologies align with those above them.

 

[evil_geko]

Why is this dragging on so much? Just make a decision either way. Only thing I can think of is they are negotiating with replacements and waiting on an arrangement before making an announcement.

 

[ForeverRed1]

And prior to this match we already knew he got us to 3 finals and won at least 1. So again, yes, it is winning that one match that brought this ridiculous turnaround (And I'm saying that as someone who can see the reasoning in keeping ETH).

I don’t think many expected us to beat city the way we did. In all fairness, with all things considered, two trophies all be it not the ones we really want, isn’t a total disaster. United is miles and miles off the pace due to the long term neglect of the glazers. A manager can’t work miracles.

 

[pocco]

According to other Ajax fans he’s the best manager they’ve had in 20 years and an absolute genius. You can pick and choose your thoughts.

Again, not my opinion. Just pointing out that he's actually not had a team performing at it's best for quite a while now.

 

[JPRouve]

According to other Ajax fans he’s the best manager they’ve had in 20 years and an absolute genius. You can pick and choose your thoughts.

Which makes sense because the list is genuinely terrible. The other candidates would be Koeman and De Boer.

 

[Rapsel]

Didn't they lose in the cup final too, after leading? I vaguely remember people on here getting a bit worried about their performances towards the end, particularly that game.

Yup, losing 2-1 to PSV after taking the lead. Gravenberch scoring.

 

[SAF is the GOAT]

 

[romufc]

But he scraped through some non league opposition in the FA Cup, hit peak Oleball in the final to win it, and now he's the man to take us forward. OK then.

I always find it interesting when posters call Liverpool a non league opposition.

 

[Amir]

I don’t think many expected us to beat city the way we did. In all fairness, with all things considered, two trophies all be it not the ones we really want, isn’t a total disaster. United is miles and miles off the pace due to the long term neglect of the glazers. A manager can’t work miracles.

All's good and well.

But still, people changed their minds over 90 minutes of football, in a 50 game season. Ridiculous.

 

[sparx99]

This article is just pushing Brantwaithe, which I’m not sure we are in for.

‘To form a first choice partnership with Martinez’

Seems weird that we would want two left-footed CB’s playing. Given we’ve been extensively linked to right-footed CB’s I feel like Branthwaite would be more about backing up Martinez and offering a more robust inverted LB similar to how Ake and Gvardiol have been utilised.

 

[#07]

 

[romufc]

‘To form a first choice partnership with Martinez’

Seems weird that we would want two left-footed CB’s playing. Given we’ve been extensively linked to right-footed CB’s I feel like Branthwaite would be more about backing up Martinez and offering a more robust inverted LB similar to how Ake and Gvardiol have been utilised.

I would rather sign a top LB, with Shaw being 2nd choice LCB and LB. Instead of spending £60m on a backup CB, will allow us to use those funds to concentrate on other important areas of the pitch too.

 

[Oldyella]

I think people are looking at the fact he’s got us to 3 cup finals, winning two of them along with the fact he has had to deal with so much and there isn’t a magic wand to suddenly make us world beaters. Is it better to really start over again? Or give him a third season? Let’s see how we do next season with hopefully a better injury record (can’t be guarenteed of course) and support via ineos. I genuinely think we’ll see better football next season if we can sort a few of the issues out this summer.

Very valid arguments, but not many were considering them when it was about 70/30 leading up to the final.

 

[sparx99]

Half the folks want to be on the right side and tilt towards whereever the pendulum is likely to swing; which currently look like is leaning towards him staying and being offered a contract extension. ETH is very good at making excuses and talking himself up. That's how he got a control of the transfers at such a huge club & got us to buy the likes of Antony, Mount, Onana etc.

Agree on the voting with the crowd.

However, ETH doesn’t seem very good at talking in general. His English remains poor and has already caused issues given the way the media spun his Sancho comments.

Why would he extend his deal when he has two years left? Surely the best thing to do if he is staying is to let him go into next season under his current terms and then not use the 1yr extension if he fails again.

To some extent I can see the value in continuity for one year while the youngsters develop further, get the behind the scenes guys in place properly and then make a call as next year progresses.

 

[sparx99]

I would rather sign a top LB, with Shaw being 2nd choice LCB and LB. Instead of spending £60m on a backup CB, will allow us to use those funds to concentrate on other important areas of the pitch too.

Totally agree. I just don’t see many coaches and definitely not Ten Hag wanting a left footed CB playing RCB.

If we have the money and Lindelof leaves then we’ll need two CB’s you would think. I guess if we land Tosin on a free then Branthwaite could be done but still doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.

 

[romufc]

Very valid arguments, but not many were considering them when it was about 70/30 leading up to the final.

Leading up to the final our low point was Palace, where as usual we were open. Since then, there was new evidence.

There were alot of question marks against Ten Hag, can he change tactics? Can he set up a team to close gaps, Can he set up a team that isnt open?

Well, it was 4 games at the end where he changed tactics and we became alot more reserved and compact. He showed the ability to set up defensively.

Although, I think from the choices out there, Ten Hag should be given next season, question marks still remain.

- Can we be consistent in competing against top teams
- Can we dominate the ball and win against opposition we should be beating
- Can we trust the team to defend a lead?
- Can we play a style with is sustainable to win a PL

 

[sparx99]

And no one on here was/is crying for Maresca, Slot, Kompany A few people liked Motta and I guess Flick was a popular choice at one point, although not a recent one.

What are the odds on them all being sacked by Christmas?

Honestly, I’d bet they are all sacked by Christmas before I’d bet none of them are.

 

[pocco]

I always find it interesting when posters call Liverpool a non league opposition.

'some non league opposition'. Including the semi final.

I find it interesting how many want to ignore the whole season prior to the Final. How we got out played, our manager out-thought, and outclassed by teams up and down the league. 'One of the worst coached teams in the league' was it? This doesn't happen to a top manager, especially just because they're missing one or two defenders.

 

[sparx99]

The main criticism Ajax supporters had were the football getting worse and the results were squeezed out at end of the 21/22 season, him playing Kudus way too little even when fit. Also going out of the CL against Benfica unnecessarily after 6 wins in the group stage was mostly because of his tactics. In a way we had gotten a little spoiled but there was no denying it got a lot worse after the winter break that season.

Hadn’t Ajax sold De Ligt, De Jong and Van De Beek the summer before? So a fairly substantial loss of key players?

 

[romufc]

'some non league opposition'. Including the semi final.

I find it interesting how many want to ignore the whole season prior to the Final. How we got out played, our manager out-thought, and outclassed by teams up and down the league. 'One of the worst coached teams in the league' was it? This doesn't happen to a top manager, especially just because they're missing one or two defenders.

You mentioned the FA cup run, so I will look at that.

Right we got outplayed, outclassed and scraped through the FA cup until the final?

Wigan - 67% possession 2 - 0 https://www.fotmob.com/en-GB/leagues/132/matches/fa-cup/by-round?round=5

Newport County - 71% Possession 4-2 https://www.fotmob.com/en-GB/matches/manchester-united-vs-newport-county/3hdti5#4397794:tab=stats

Nottingham Forest - 1-0 60% possession https://www.fotmob.com/en-GB/matches/nottingham-forest-vs-manchester-united/3gnwkc#4414637:tab=stats

Liverpool - 4-3 42 % Possession https://www.fotmob.com/en-GB/matches/liverpool-vs-manchester-united/2ygkcb#4435125:tab=stats

Coventry - 3-3 58% Possession https://www.fotmob.com/en-GB/matches/coventry-city-vs-manchester-united/2yo9qe#4447992:tab=stats

Yeah we really scrapped through those games - better XG than every team we faced in every round.

 

[JPRouve]

Hadn’t Ajax sold De Ligt, De Jong and Van De Beek the summer before? So a fairly substantial loss of key players?

No De Jong and De Ligt were sold in 2019.

 

[HookedOnAPhelan]

Apparently this was the video shown to the players ahead of the final. Love that.

Think Pep did something similar with his Barca players ahead of the 2009 final, with a Gladiator video I think. Maybe it happens a lot. Or maybe it’s a bald thing.

 

[Rapsel]

Hadn’t Ajax sold De Ligt, De Jong and Van De Beek the summer before? So a fairly substantial loss of key players?

Yes but we got Martinez, Alvarez, Antony and Kudus.

 

[Salford_Red83]

He also beat Villa twice and drew Liverpool twice. And beat Liverpool. With a decimated squad.

But hey, enjoy focusing on the negatives.

Can't wait for the parade!

 

[lex talionis]

In defense of ETH’s supporters, the injury epidemic was substantial and we all saw for ourselves what a difference it made to have Martinez and Varane back on duty, even without Shaw.

That said, I’m still unsure whether to sack or not sack ETH. For me it comes down to who his successor would be and I have not yet seen a name floated that would be clear upgrade on ETH.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Probably not....70m for a 30 yr old was obviously a risky decision though he was quite good the first year but his legs have gone this season at 32

I'm thinking more about his attitude, to be honest.

Not that I have any reason to think he has a positively shabby attitude - but I doubt Fergie would've brought in a player his age for that kind of money if he wasn't sure about his attitude (his commitment, his willingness to give 100% and so forth).

I dunno, Casemiro just strikes me as a player Fergie wouldn't have gone for.

(I don't think he would've gone for anyone coming from Real Madrid specifically at 30 or thereabouts on a fat contract - no chance, in fact.)

 

[Chesterlestreet]

The amount this poll has shifted following the cup final is just laughable. We played well in a one off game in a similar fashion to our good performances under ole against city

This doesn't negate the crap we have seen all season

Probably been asked before, but how many have actually changed their vote?

Could be that a number of people who were on the fence about him decided to vote after the final: not because they actually consider the performance/result itself a good enough reason to keep him, but because that match made them...well, finally commit to the old in-or-out (and it was close for them - and still is, one might presume).

 

[romufc]

In defense of ETH’s supporters, the injury epidemic was substantial and we all saw for ourselves what a difference it made to have Martinez and Varane back on duty, even without Shaw.

That said, I’m still unsure whether to sack or not sack ETH. For me it comes down to who his successor would be and I have not yet seen a name floated that would be clear upgrade on ETH.

We have all seen the impact your key players can have. Liverpool without VVD were battling top 4, Saliba got injured for end of season and Arsenal completely fell apart.

Apart from Pep and City who rotate the team like no other, struggle without Rodri, last season he was missing and they won 1 in 6.

 

[sepulturite]

The way the second tweet shows up on here it looks like it's saying that she was trapped in the village with Ten Hag

 

[croadyman]

According to Jacobs latest interview on that awful fan channel it's Blanc pushing for him to stay and Brailsford playing devil's advocate.