Your relentless exaggeration and obsessiveness to focus on him when the thread discusses injuries is a bit obvious mate. Get over it.I now dislike him (obsessively even!) because I am saying he’s good but not top 5 in the world. Got it.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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There’s new developments on every page though. Now apparently if you don’t think Martinez is a top 5 defender in the world, you are an obsessive hater.
Definitely good to keep the fraud until all the alternatives are off the market and we can throw next season in the bin as well.
I think claiming he’s the difference between a comfortable top 4 finish and 8th, that he’s a top 5 defender in the world and that he’s our best player are all more of an exaggeration to be honest.
We do that with every player that’s out for a while though, have done it since Fergie days. It’s like being injured elevates you every week. I remember how we all thought Fletcher being out for CL final made us lose to Barca.
While I think Martinez is class, I think you should take anything Pep says with a huge barrel of salt. "Maguire is very fast"
I genuinely don't know where Martinez rating comes from. As you say he is a good defender but nothing beyond that especially when he doesn't have a strong record in big games. He is a squad player for his national team and hasn't really played at the highest level of club Football, meaning the last stages of the CL.
Doesn't work like football manager to be honest. There's a lot of thought going into positioning beyond "let's stick him there". Wan bisska did a job on Salah in an important result or two and there was reason to believe he could do well there. Dalot also looked uncomfortable at LB in periods too.
You also don't know what the view in training is, whether players have expressed less discomfort playing on a particular flank.
To be fair, we all spam a fair bit. The other side(myself) will bore people with the tactical issues until you all cave in.
Who said he is getting a bye for the season, there are clearly big question marks over his job.
I really dont like the narrative that you can get a bye just because you "pushed" city. This is hypocrisy really.
He stands out because he's got a bit of character, which is otherwise completely missing from the team. In That sense he's essential and does elevate us when he plays.
We sacked LVG straight after a final. If they’d already decided before the final like a lot of reports and people are saying. Then they’d of waited a couple of days and let him celebrate the win and then tell him. Not drag it out. Theirs been a few managers available for ages so they’d have already spoken to some. It needs to be resolved before the start of June I’d say. I still think their gonna announce that he’s staying as their isn’t anyone better available which they obviously won’t say that’s the reason.
I genuinely don’t know how anyone can watch Martinez play regularly and not recognize that he’s a top class player.
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Dalot played the most games for us at LB of anyone in the squad. He also played the most at RB (a perfect 1/3 and 2/3 split) so it’s clear he was used there. He’s not natural though and that is a disingenuous argument to make.
Shaw managed 28.1% of the season to be on the pitch. Given the number of injuries at the same time and the patchy nature of who was available and when I just think you’re being overly harsh and negative given this isn’t something other clubs dealt with better than us even if you were to argue Chelsea or Newcastle or whoever else had injuries they still underperformed.
I’m not comparing cup games etc I’m looking at the PL as we did quite well in the cup and so I’m not sure why we would want to use those games to look at impact.
We are all upset with our low league position finish so it makes sense to league at the league play time and see is there a reason why we might have been below par?
Id argue not a single CB playing half of our games, Jonny Evans being our 2nd most played CB and not having a LB probably had an impact.
Does he? Are there other CBs that he has said the same of this season? I can’t think of any. He specifically singled him out for praise which suggests he’s a very good CB unless you believe you know more than Pep Guardiola @Sarni ?
It’s ok to just say you don’t like a player. But when the best manager in the world says something it’s probably because he’s very good.
It’s not just that. You seem to criminally underrate him despite all available evidence suggesting you probably are wrong.
I’m not sure anyone has claimed he’s the sole difference but I certainly believe you have him and Shaw available for even 60% of our season each and we go a lot higher up the table. Of course that is purely speculation on my part.
With Pep saying the opposite to this post, you should know what you've come out with is a load of rubbish.
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To be fair @JPRouve is a good poster and regularly presents their arguments well and has got a good understanding usually of tactics etc so I have respect for him and his views more often than not.
But I trust Guardiola’s judgement on this one.
I'll liken this outpouring of euphoria to the difference between a holiday romance and a real, tangible relationship.
Once the dust settles on the holiday romance, practicality of real life starts to seap in, and the farther away the holiday romance was, the more the feelings for it lessen and compartmentalise.
I suspect, in a less euphoric state, when the season we've endured as a whole is realigned, a fair portion of those buzzing so much their opinion swayed, will change their position once more. In the meantime, posts and thoughts will remain overwhelmingly positive, much to the chagrin of those who are vehemently ETH out.
Once the dust settles on the holiday romance, practicality of real life starts to seap in, and the farther away the holiday romance was, the more the feelings for it lessen and compartmentalise.
I suspect, in a less euphoric state, when the season we've endured as a whole is realigned, a fair portion of those buzzing so much their opinion swayed, will change their position once more. In the meantime, posts and thoughts will remain overwhelmingly positive, much to the chagrin of those who are vehemently ETH out.
Just because Pep said Martinez is a top5 defender in the world doesn't mean he actually is.
He said this about Nunes too when he was playing for Sporting.
"Matheus Nunes is one of the best players in the world today. Despite the difficulties and some mistakes, I have to be very satisfied because we took a big step towards the next round".
Didn't make it true that time too.
He said this about Nunes too when he was playing for Sporting.
"Matheus Nunes is one of the best players in the world today. Despite the difficulties and some mistakes, I have to be very satisfied because we took a big step towards the next round".
Didn't make it true that time too.
The win % when Martinez and Varane started is top.
If Ten Hags staying I'd be very excited about this summer and hopefully INEOS and the Glazers focus on improving the squad.
Sells and buys to start the next season with a squad that can atleast battle for a top 3 place would be the expectation. And a year later be in a position to challenge for the league.
Screenshot me and set your reminders. IF Ten Hag stays.
If Ten Hags staying I'd be very excited about this summer and hopefully INEOS and the Glazers focus on improving the squad.
Sells and buys to start the next season with a squad that can atleast battle for a top 3 place would be the expectation. And a year later be in a position to challenge for the league.
Screenshot me and set your reminders. IF Ten Hag stays.
Not entering the actual discussion, but querying something: do you selectively choose what and what to believe Pep on, or are you taken in by him on a 1:1 scale?
Pep couldn't be more complimentary towards our players and managers over his time here. Ever wonder why he'd do that?
Granted this is after the fact, and not before it, but still, is Pep a man to trust when it comes to opinion on our players or managers?
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Agreed but it probably makes him a very good defender and one that would make a difference to us.
Manchester United's abominable, terrible, no-good 'structure' that has betrayed Eric Ten Hag at every turn and must be rebuilt anew, also bumbled their way into signing a top 5 CB in the world.
Hard to square those two beliefs.
Hard to square those two beliefs.
Pep is the best Pied Piper in football by a very large margin. I wonder how often he espouses what he's actually thinking compared to the amount of times he blows smoke.
Have you scrubbed the CL from memory? Arguably the pinnacle of bald ball.
That is undeniable, but would he have been the difference between the disaster of a league season we had to even a semi decent one? I doubt.
no, we can all see with eyes how good Martinez is. The fact Pep sees and is saying it himself only adds to that fact. Our season is likely quite different to some extent with Martinez starting all season - he's a leader and warrior on the pitch, that personality has been a big miss
Well not really. Words are powerful and useful tools in the hands of a grandmaster and taking them at face value is not a particularly smart thing to do when he has skin in the game and isn't talking as a neutral on the subject at hand.
I think you’re massaging things a bit here. Days out injured is really the only categorical way to quantify an injury situation.
Some of what you’ve said here is a little loose on the factual side.
- Chelsea can only submit a certain amount of players for their PL squad. I’d imagine United and Chelsea submitted similar squad sizes.
- Yes we had to utilise a make shift left back most of the season whereas they probably only did for a few games.
- Nkunku can be replaced by Madueke, Sterling, Gallagher and Mudryk? I’m not sure how considering none of them play in Nkunku’s position(s) either second striker or striker.
- Chukwemeka and Lavia might not be starters but James, Chilwell, Nkunku, Sanchez are and missed most of the season. We also had some regular starters out and some squad players out.
- Only Gusto was under 21? Quick Look shows Palmer 21, Colwill 20/21. I’m not even sure it’s really relevant. Those three young starters of ours you mentioned have actually arguably been 3 of our better players this season. Garnacho kept out a more experienced Antony. Mainoo a more experienced Amrabat/Eriksen. So I don’t see how that can be used as a negative when squad assessing. We’d have literally been worse off if we played the “over 21’s” instead of them.
I haven’t seen your thread, perhaps you could post it but you seem to be using subjective and slightly massaged opinions. I don’t think there’s any doubt our injury situation has been disastrous but it has been for the two clubs who finished directly above us too and at a comparative rate.
Well we don't know that because they were injured all season. It's possible that Lavia in particular could have been a particularly good solution for their midfield problems. He was a very good player at Southampton. If Palmer had been injured all season you might have said it doesn't matter because he's not a first team player.
2nd bolded sentence suggests to me that you're starting with your conclusion and working backward from it. Colwil, Gusto, Enzo, Madueke, Palmer, Caicedo, Jackson, Badiashille, Mudryk, and Fofana are all under 23, plus Petrovic, James, Gallagher are 24. So you may be technically correct at this moment in time (although probably a handful of these players were 21 during the season), but the actual facts undermine your point about experience/inexperience imo.
Last point I would make is it's the job of the manager and club to assemble a squad that can absorb injuries.
I'm certain he is jinxing us. Like how he jinxed Onana and he cost us dearly this season.
If Pep told me the sky was blue, I would go outside and check for myself. He's full of it.
that wasn't your question though. You asked if I'd selectively believe what he says, I don't. Martinez is one of our best players regardless of that statement.
yes. Also known as facts
My biggest worry about sticking with Ten Hag is them sacking him in December and hiring Southgate.
Then you’d have to also factor in when players are ‘available’ but not fit or just on the bench for an emergency after coming back from an injury. If you don’t trust that model you can also just read the Athletic article which shows we’ve had the worst injuries in the league?
You can question if ETH is somehow causing the injuries but it’s foolish to question if the injuries actually occurred.
But you cited Pep, because the view he put forth (for whatever reason - perhaps he was being genuine, perhaps not) supports your own.
It's obviously your perogative, I'm just playing Devil's Advocate here because the man is the consummate slippery eel.
I am really worried about INEOS if they are looking at the likes of Southgate as manager.
I'd certainly wonder what he was actually up to, no matter what came out his mouth.
If INEOS are looking at Southgate as a serious managerial candidate, then we're doomed.
Same. But I hope and believe it's the press making up shit.
I said Varane was available for the majority of our games this season. You focused know league games, I didn't specify.
If we look at the stats we can see he was available and included in around 75% of our match day squads.
Yeah there were obviously two main ones I think most agree on that. The only difference being which one someone thinks was the main reason. And if one was largely the cause of the other.
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