Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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This reminds me of LvGs first season. Quite poor overall throughout the season and then suddenly it just seem to click for the last 4-5 games and we get all giddy about things to come next season.
Not overly excited about EtH staying.
 
TrustInJanuzaj said:
They had injuries but how many of them were actually to their key players? Their squad is massive, and some of the players on the periphery have been injured but it’s been in absolutely no way comparable. Look at the analysis from Benito.
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Is there a stat for that?
 
Acquire Me said:
It is not about a single football match. It's about continuity for me.

In any case, it is certainly not the case that those who want him out or in know anything more or are more right. No one knows what the future will bring. It's all just guesswork, speculation and personal preference.

It only gets stupid when people write as if one party is naive and stupid, and proclaim that their opinion is the truth.
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Yes you are right and it is about the continuity rather than one match and the continuity is that we’ve been awful since the league cup final last season, ETH blames injuries and individual mistakes yet doesn’t alter tactics and continued to pick the same players whilst we continued to get worse and then on the euphoria of a cup final win over City it’s like everything else has been forgotten.

I do agree that we need continuity BUT that has to come from above first with Ineos as we need to have a set style and tactical approach, a set vision of recruitment, set coaches and then implement all of this on to the pitch and the fact that no one at Ineos has once come out publicly to back ETH should tell you that they don’t believe he’s the man either and that they’re basically weighing up the con’s of bringing someone else in rather than the pro’s of keeping ETH.

Just so you know I was one of the biggest supporters for bringing ETH in when he was at Ajax and I have hated the horrific management from above with the revolving door of managers that are completely different to the previous and the revolving door of players that fit certain managers rather than them all, I’ve also been happy that we’ve broken our trophy drought too but unfortunately it isn’t going to work with ETH and if he stays then we’ll be writing next season off by Christmas.
 
I’m in the I don’t want Southgate camp.
But one thing I would say is, I reckon, whether it’s here or somewhere else, he might surprise us and do well.

I think he’ll enjoy some success wherever he goes, but the lack of any club management for the amount of years, just puts me right off, just nothing to get behind
 
TrustInJanuzaj said:
They had injuries but how many of them were actually to their key players? Their squad is massive, and some of the players on the periphery have been injured but it’s been in absolutely no way comparable. Look at the analysis from Benito.
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I think you need to have a look at their injuries before you come up with claims like ‘it has been in no way comparable’. They have had serious injuries across the whole pitch, missing their first choice players across virtually all positions for large chunk of time. It’s definitely ‘comparable’.
 
stevoc said:
To be fair Varane was fit for most of the season.
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To be fair this isn’t entirely true. His “availability” is very much in question given https://amp.theguardian.com/footbal...-varane-manchester-united-concussion-football

I also think it’s better to look at how much he actually played 40.1% of our PL season vs how much he was “fit” for. Given the level of defensive injuries being on the bench for me isn’t anywhere near a compelling argument for fitness and availability.
Sarni said:
He was available for at least 25 out of 38 league games. Martinez we’ve missed but I am not comfortable at all if he’s the difference between being 3rd - 4th and 8th, knowing we are his injury away from turning into a rubbish team with no plan B. He might get injured again.
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Again available can be a bit of a gray area here. Assuming a manager always wants to play their best XI (including fittest etc) then 40.1% minutes played suggests that Varane has struggled this season to be fully fit and available at his best.
 
It would seem there's a strong movement within INEOS to have Southgate as manager at some point, probably sooner rather than later.
 
BenitoSTARR said:
To be fair this isn’t entirely true. His “availability” is very much in question given https://amp.theguardian.com/footbal...-varane-manchester-united-concussion-football

I also think it’s better to look at how much he actually played 40.1% of our PL season vs how much he was “fit” for. Given the level of defensive injuries being on the bench for me isn’t anywhere near a compelling argument for fitness and availability.

Again available can be a bit of a gray area here. Assuming a manager always wants to play their best XI (including fittest etc) then 40.1% minutes played suggests that Varane has struggled this season to be fully fit and available at his best.
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They fell out mid-season and he was down in the pecking order for quite a few games. He’s featured in 22 league games and was dropped without being injured for 2-3 from what I recall.
 
Sarni said:
I think you need to have a look at their injuries before you come up with claims like ‘it has been in no way comparable’. They have had serious injuries across the whole pitch, missing their first choice players across virtually all positions for large chunk of time. It’s definitely ‘comparable’.
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It’s not near to ours, I’ve done the research.
 
Sarni said:
There isn’t. It’s basically Martinez, if you don’t have Martinez missing then you are good to go regardless of everything else.
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I mean it’s gone under the radar but he’s our best player. When Liverpool miser Van Dyke it was massive. Martinez isn’t just missing any player.
 
VP89 said:
Just look at the missing players and compare who's available to step in.
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Well I'd say our 3 biggest misses this season were:

Martinez: Lindelof, Maguire, Evans and Varane (who wasn't played for the best part of 2-3 months.)

Shaw: Reguilon for the first half of the season, then take your pick from Dalot (decent at LB) AWB (ok to decent at times) then Amrabat and Lindelof (not great)

Mount: Hard to really know what Ten Hags plan for him but you'd imagine he would have rotated with McTominay and Mainoo for the most part.

Of the 3 Shaw was in my opinion our biggest miss as after Xmas we had no decent alternative beyond playing Dalot out of position.
 
TrustInJanuzaj said:
I mean it’s gone under the radar but he’s our best player. When Liverpool miser Van Dyke it was massive. Martinez isn’t just missing any player.
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:lol: his myth has certainly been elevated to insane levels during his absence. Give him a few more months and he might be the best defender in the league (if he isn’t already).
 
Sarni said:
They fell out mid-season and he was down in the pecking order for quite a few games. He’s featured in 22 league games and was dropped without being injured for 2-3 from what I recall.
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There is no confirmed reports of them falling out.

Him being absent from the squad could be just as likely down to concussion concerns which the club would obviously not want to make public.

The official reason given by Ten Hag was internal competition. So for one reason or another he felt Varane was unable to perform to the best of his ability. Again is he then truly “available” given his injury record and confirmation of his concussion concerns.
 
How many times this season did the camera pan to Dave Brailsford watching us get absolutely mullered by relegation fodder?

Honestly seemed like every game we played he looked seriously unimpressed with the dross he was seeing.

I can't honestly believe that one game would convince INEOS that ETH is the right man for the job. And really, if they pivoted back towards him due to fan sentiment, I have no hope for us as a club going forward.
 
Sarni said:
I think you need to have a look at their injuries before you come up with claims like ‘it has been in no way comparable’. They have had serious injuries across the whole pitch, missing their first choice players across virtually all positions for large chunk of time. It’s definitely ‘comparable’.
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To be honest I don’t think it is comparable. I think the only club who could claim similar to us is Newcastle. Even then I don’t the no their injuries have been as concentrated to one area of the pitch. It’s not even the injuries per se that are the issue for Utd this season, it’s the consistency. We could live with a season of Martinez-Maguire or a season of Varane-Lindelof for example, but when that’s changing due to injuries every week there’s just no relationships, form, consistency building. Anyway it’s been done to death, some are underplaying it just to slate the manager which is abit odd.
 
BenitoSTARR said:
There is no confirmed reports of them falling out.

Him being absent from the squad could be just as likely down to concussion concerns which the club would obviously not want to make public.

The official reason given by Ten Hag was internal competition. So for one reason or another he felt Varane was unable to perform to the best of his ability. Again is he then truly “available” given his injury record and confirmation of his concussion concerns.
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You can’t put a player that has concussion on the bench though. If he’s on the bench, he is available.
 
stevoc said:
Well I'd say our 3 biggest misses this season were:

Martinez: Lindelof, Maguire, Evans and Varane (who wasn't played for the best part of 2-3 months.)

Shaw: Reguilon for the first half of the season, then take your pick from Dalot (decent at LB) AWB (ok to decent at times) then Amrabat and Lindelof (not great)

Mount: Hard to really know what Ten Hags plan for him but you'd imagine he would have rotated with McTominay and Mainoo for the most part.

Of the 3 Shaw was in my opinion our biggest miss as after Xmas we had no decent alternative beyond playing Dalot out of position.
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Continuity is also the issue. Lindelof came then went for surgery then came then went. Maguire was the same. Evans was relied upon more than hoped and we needed Kambala and Casemiro to make up numbers.

I think all that plus the musical chairs at LB were the biggest issues, that's before we consider longer term injuries to casemiro and some niggles with Hojlund.

It is what it is, it's done now. We should have done better than 8th irrespective.
 
Sarni said:
:lol: his myth has certainly been elevated to insane levels during his absence. Give him a few more months and he might be the best defender in the league (if he isn’t already).
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I mean he was one of the best defenders in the league last season…
 
BenitoSTARR said:
It’s not near to ours, I’ve done the research.
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Find that incredibly hard to believe. There can’t be that much in it.

James missed at least 75% (can’t think he played more than Shaw)
Chillwell maybe less (Martinez probs a bit more)
Fofana was out the whole season (Malacia same)
Nkunku 75% or more even (martial similar)
Chukwemeka and Lavia all season (Casemiro and Kobi missed a chunk but not as much although Mount more or less whole season)
Sanchez missed basically the second half of the season.
Chalobah and Badiashille missed a good chunk too. (Lindelof and Maguire prob available more)

Yeah dunno what research you’ve done but I recall the number of days injured, Chelsea were very high up.
 
Sarni said:
:lol: his myth has certainly been elevated to insane levels during his absence. Give him a few more months and he might be the best defender in the league (if he isn’t already).
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But it was Lisandro Martinez who Pep Guardiola singled out in his post-match interview.

“Lisandro Martinez is top five centre-backs in the world,” the Spaniard said after the game.

“He made the difference on this game by playing passes through our defence.”
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Does Guardiola know what he’s talking about more than @Sarni? I’m not sure who to believe here.
 
VP89 said:
Continuity is also the issue. Lindelof came then went for surgery then came then went. Maguire was the same. Evans was relied upon more than hoped and we needed Kambala and Casemiro to make up numbers.

I think all that plus the musical chairs at LB were the biggest issues, that's before we consider longer term injuries to casemiro and some niggles with Hojlund.

It is what it is, it's done now. We should have done better than 8th irrespective.
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LB thing could have been resolved by playing Dalot there consistently, one player that is actually quite natural there. Wan Bissaka was able to play in 22 games so that leaves 16 games in which we would have to patch up full back position (some of which Shaw was available for, but not many). It’s one of the those things that became more of an issue than it needed to be.
 
Resigned to the idea that he could be staying, if he does then I hope he proves me wrong and gets us going. But looking at the way we've played beyond his first 6 months and even before the injury crisis, I suspect we'll be lucky to get 5th. Would be an improvement on this season I guess.
 
BenitoSTARR said:
To be fair this isn’t entirely true. His “availability” is very much in question given https://amp.theguardian.com/footbal...-varane-manchester-united-concussion-football

I also think it’s better to look at how much he actually played 40.1% of our PL season vs how much he was “fit” for. Given the level of defensive injuries being on the bench for me isn’t anywhere near a compelling argument for fitness and availability.

Again available can be a bit of a gray area here. Assuming a manager always wants to play their best XI (including fittest etc) then 40.1% minutes played suggests that Varane has struggled this season to be fully fit and available at his best.
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Well I mean it is, isn't it. He was injured or ill for 13 out of 52 games this season. So he was available for 75% of our matches.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/raphael-varane/leistungsdaten/spieler/164770

The 40.1% is hardly a surprise when he missed 7-8 games towards the end of the season through injury and was frozen out for the best part of 2 months before Xmas only getting the odd cameo . Until Maguire got injured and then we remembered he could actually play at LCB.
 
VP89 said:
Continuity is also the issue. Lindelof came then went for surgery then came then went. Maguire was the same. Evans was relied upon more than hoped and we needed Kambala and Casemiro to make up numbers.

I think all that plus the musical chairs at LB were the biggest issues, that's before we consider longer term injuries to casemiro and some niggles with Hojlund.

It is what it is, it's done now. We should have done better than 8th irrespective.
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Yeh bang on. Just zero consistency in the team every week and we just haven’t been able to build up the relationships of key players.
 
BenitoSTARR said:
But it was Lisandro Martinez who Pep Guardiola singled out in his post-match interview.



Does Guardiola know what he’s talking about more than @Sarni? I’m not sure who to believe here.
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Pep loves praising an opposition player/coach beyond reason. Martinez is definitely not a top 5 defender in the world, not even a chance.

He’s a good defender though, sometimes very good.
 
VP89 said:
Continuity is also the issue. Lindelof came then went for surgery then came then went. Maguire was the same. Evans was relied upon more than hoped and we needed Kambala and Casemiro to make up numbers.

I think all that plus the musical chairs at LB were the biggest issues, that's before we consider longer term injuries to casemiro and some niggles with Hojlund.

It is what it is, it's done now. We should have done better than 8th irrespective.
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Fair enough mate, yeah we probably should have.
 
Now it's worth it to keep ETH as he is forgiven after guiding the team to FA cup victory and securing Europa spot. The money is there now.
 
Sarni said:
Pep loves praising an opposition player/coach beyond reason. Martinez is definitely not a top 5 defender in the world, not even a chance.

He’s a good defender though, sometimes very good.
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Your obsessive dislike toward licha is tiresome.
 
Sarni said:
Yeah but you are using methodology that just suits your argument.
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I’m using one that makes sense given the subjective nature of availability. Especially given we had a defensive injury crisis.

Players can only impact when they are on the pitch getting minutes. Managers will want to win games so they will pick the best they can for those games.
Sarni said:
You can’t put a player that has concussion on the bench though. If he’s on the bench, he is available.
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It’s not necessarily that he has concussion it’s that he has said previously his worries about heading a football. Which is a key part of being a CB. There are many reasons why he may not start and it’s most likely due to not being fully fit and firing.
Ludens the Red said:
Find that incredibly hard to believe. There can’t be that much in it.

James missed at least 75% (can’t think he played more than Shaw)
Chillwell maybe less
Fofana was out the whole season (Malacia same)
Nkunku 75% or more even (martial similar)
Chukwemeka and Lavia all season (Casemiro and Kobi missed a chunk but not as much although Mount more or less whole season)
Sanchez missed basically the second half of the season.
Chalobah and Badiashille missed a good chunk too. (Lindelof and Maguire prob available more)

Yeah dunno what research you’ve done but I recall the number of days injured, Chelsea were very high up.
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Look at my thread and look at the % minutes played. Chelsea have a huge squad that meant they rarely had the inability to field a specialist in their position.

James could be replaced by Gusto.
Chilwell by Colwill or Cucarella
Fofana by Silva, Colwill, Disasi.
Nkunku by Gallagher, Jackson, Sterling, Mudryk, Madueke and Palmer
Chuk and Lavia are not starters they were youth/squad options and still left Fernandez, Caicedo and Gallagher.
Sanchez had Petrovic (arguably better)

If you have a massive squad like theirs essentially the relative impact isn’t the same.

Bear in mind our best XI contains 2 teenagers and a 20 year old striker too. You’re placing extraneous load onto inexperienced players. The Chelsea team that was available most of the season only had Gusto as a U21 player in it for the majority.
 
BenitoSTARR said:
I’m using one that makes sense given the subjective nature of availability. Especially given we had a defensive injury crisis.

Players can only impact when they are on the pitch getting minutes. Managers will want to win games so they will pick the best they can for those games.
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Not really. The one that makes sense is looking at games they are available for as it cancels out all the times they are not picked due to manager’s decision. We have had quite few of these which would increase % for at least 4 of our players I can think of.
 
Page after page of people now only discussing injuries as if that's the only reason we've failed this season. Tiresome how some are allowed to spam the thread with the same nonsense.
 
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