Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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Lord of Blackhaven said:
The situation is a good test for INEOS because no comprehensive and competent review of the season could possibly come to the conclusion to keep EtH. By every conceivably metric the season has been a disaster. Unfortunately most fans go on vibes and after the obvious high of Saturday immediately forgot the 10 months of dross that came before it. If we lose the first game next season the same fans will be calling INEOS idiots for not sacking him.
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this
 
golden_blunder said:
I don’t believe any of that. I think a competent manager could have got top 4 with this squad. IF he had played a setup similar to what he has finished the season with in every match we would have had less defeats and more points.

whilst Onana made the gaffs in the CL again the real gaff was how we setup.

his setup for 95% of the season is what’s undone the results, not all the other narratives doing the rounds,

Should he stay, I hope that he has been ordered to change it
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If he stays, he won't last past October if he tries to play the same suicidal system next year. It won't work with any players, he needs to put in a box and dump it at sea.
 
Dominos said:
For the people who want him to stay, do you actually believe Ten Hag will win us a premier league or champions league before he leaves this club?

Logically, I can't imagine a scenario where the manager to take us back to our glory days, is someone who after 2 full years has made the team worse, and has us performing to the standard of a 14th/15th placed side. I just don't see the rationale behind it. It would be a fairytale story to make us worse after 2 years and then go and win us a league title, but fairytales aren't real unfortunately.

I think people are being sentimental, and ultimately they think it's mean to sack someone who they feel sorry for. And being nice is more important than the success of the football club to some fans.
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Highly unlikely but ask yourself if you think we can win anything with names being linked with us, the only one which gives me a bit of hope is Tuchel but it's not going to happen overnight.

I just don't like the idea of hitting reset every two years, which is why I would prefer ETH to see out this contract, gives us a bit of time to get this backroom in order and possibly move a couple of players away, also give us a chance to see what McKenna will be like in the top division as he's a total wildcard for me at the moment.
 
stevoc said:
No you were the one saying the players are not following his instructions. I'm saying obviously they are following his instructions when the same tactics and shape were used game after game for 9 months. Defence sitting deep and the front 5/6 pushing high up the pitch.
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https://www.telegraph.co.uk/footbal...-slams-unacceptable-manchester-united-player/

An angry Erik ten Hag has launched a blistering attack on his Manchester United players, accusing them of ignoring his instructions and an “unacceptable” drop in standards.
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“It is not about the midfield - it is about the back and the front - that is why we were open,” the United manager said about the Spurs match.

Plenty more where that came from
 
stevoc said:
If he stays, he won't last past October if he tries to play the same suicidal system next year. It won't work with any players, he needs to put in a box and dump it at sea.
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Guess who'll be available at that point! The guy managing England at the moment.
 
The noise coming out that ETH staying is making me nauseous. Watching that idiot Golbridge making every excuse under the sun for another season while we get pummeled by bottom half sides and talking about a "toxic minority". Is this really who the new owners are siding with? If so we're absolutely doomed to oblivion.
 
devilish said:
Fans are allowed to fickle. Football is emotional and fans are its customers. Yet football people should know better. Now if the club think its reasonable for United to end up fourth in the CL group behind Copenhagen and Galatasaaray + 8th place with a negative GD then fair enough. However they should have handled him a contract extension long ago to end any rumors and bring in some stability into the club. No wonder why INEOS keeps tanking with NICE and Lausanne
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Again, many supporters wanted him to be given another season before a ball was kicked in the final. That is not being fickle, it's the opposite. They see it's a longer game than most other, arguably fickle fans.

.
 
Valencia Shin Crosses said:
No I’m one of the ones that doesn’t judge an entire body of work off of a single cup win. Chelsea were a better team than we were this season, that doesn’t mean I would rather “not win a trophy” or whatever stupid thing you’re trying to imply.
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There are plenty of posters here that deem finishing top 4 and qualifying for the CL is the most important thing, so you're not one of them.

The entire body of work is 2 seasons not 1, is winning 2 trophies, reaching another final, 3rd and 8th, CL was poor but that was more down to individual player mistakes rather than poor management, and the EL run that was not too bad.
 
hp88 said:
Highly unlikely but ask yourself if you think we can win anything with names being linked with us, the only one which gives me a bit of hope is Tuchel but it's not going to happen overnight.

I just don't like the idea of hitting reset every two years, which is why I would prefer ETH to see out this contract, gives us a bit of time to get this backroom in order and possibly move a couple of players away, also give us a chance to see what McKenna will be like in the top division as he's a total wildcard for me at the moment.
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Literally every top club in the world will absolutely “hit reset” even quicker than 2 full seasons if they are putting up performances worthy of a bottom half of the table team. And the elite ones wouldn’t even put up with it for half a season.
 
Berbaclass said:


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As a person (clearly not as a coach) I do have time for Ten Hag. I think he's a very professional and respectful man.

With that said, this very public pouting that he isn't constantly being patted on the back after producing the most embarrassing football the club has played in nearly 4 decades is very annoying.

Yes Shearer and co are idiots but apart from that most of what he is experiencing is totally his own making.
 
Andersons Dietician said:
If people expect him to win it next year then no, but I would expect a serious challenge the year after. Then hopefully in 3 years we could do it. That’s just being realistic at where the squad is and where it needs to get to.

But bring in any manager and we are probably looking at the same sort of timeline or maybe longer. Probably set us a year back. At least with ETH he knows who needs to go and what would be beneficial to come in.

Ashworth, new manager would still need time to look at it and decide what needs fixing/ replacing and best way to move forward.

I don’t think it’s sentimentality at all, I just think people realise where we actually are as a club and what needs to happen for us to keep moving forward and see ETH as being the best option currently.

Eventually we’ll get to a place once Ashworth has had some time where it’ll be alright to sack and hire managers at the drop of a hat as we should hopefully have had structured recruitment and be hiring people that would fit the squad profile we have.

We just aren’t there yet to make that work in my opinion.
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It's not about timelines. If it takes 3 years, fine.

The point is, after making the team worse after 2 full years, do you think it's at all realistic that he then goes on to win us a league title?

On the balance of probabilities, the manager who finally takes us back to the glory days, is not someone who makes us worse after his first 2 years and have us performing to the standard of a lower half team.
 
Shark said:
The noise coming out that ETH staying is making me nauseous. Watching that idiot Golbridge making every excuse under the sun for another season while we get pummeled by bottom half sides and talking about a "toxic minority". Is this really who the new owners are siding with? If so we're absolutely doomed to Oblivion.
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He's been unsufferable lately. Ok we get it, in the past he could only get people like Foster and Incey in while SP got the likes of Rio in. Now he's getting interviews with the other SEG guy ie Hojlund. However his level of ass kissing is nauseating and quite frankly too up one's face
 
Oldyella said:
He's had two years and spent a fortune and not been able to do it. Why do people think its going to magically click in year three?
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I don't think he will. I think the first season was good though. If he can revert to that but have us further up the pitch we will do well. Do I see that happening? No.
 
glazed said:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/footbal...-slams-unacceptable-manchester-united-player/

An angry Erik ten Hag has launched a blistering attack on his Manchester United players, accusing them of ignoring his instructions and an “unacceptable” drop in standards.
...
“It is not about the midfield - it is about the back and the front - that is why we were open,” the United manager said about the Spurs match.

Plenty more where that came from
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That was in fecking August mate, the way we've played all season first appeared in Pre-Season. So July 2023 to May 2024, not a fecking chance the players were just doing whatever they wanted for 9 months. It's not even slightly believable.
 
Berbaclass said:


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If this is true then I am not impressed at all with the start Ineos are making. They look weaker than the Glazers.

Sacking LVG immediately after the cup win was ruthless but necessary. It was the best thing Joel, Avram and Woody did.
 
glazed said:
How can anyone seriously think they're keeping ETH? You don't interview five other managers if you are planning to keep the current one. Poch seems very very likely.
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To add to that, you don't let all the sacking rumours/noise continue without a statement if you plan on keeping him.

Think the "review" is just the party line and it's already been decided (out), until the cup celebrations die down.
 
devilish said:
He's been unsufferable lately. Ok we get it, in the past he could only get people like Foster and Incey in while SP got the likes of Rio in. Now he's getting interviews with the other SEG guy ie Hojlund. However his level of ass kissing is nauseating and quite frankly too up one's face
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Used to kind of tolerate him a couple years back, but yeah he's like that guy constantly in your face at a pub, who's narcissistic and won't shut the hell up. Too much.
 
Blood Mage said:
If this is true then I am not impressed at all with the start Ineos are making. They look weaker than the Glazers.

Sacking LVG immediately after the cup win was ruthless but necessary. It was the best thing Joel, Avram and Woody did.
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They're more worried about PR than conviction. Poor.
 
Red in STL said:
There are plenty of posters here that deem finishing top 4 and qualifying for the CL is the most important thing, so you're not one of them.

The entire body of work is 2 seasons not 1, is winning 2 trophies, reaching another final, 3rd and 8th, CL was poor but that was more down to individual player mistakes rather than poor management, and the EL run that was not too bad.
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“The most important thing” was progressing going into this year and becoming a more progressive, controlling side after a 2nd summer of big spending. That first plan didn’t work as his tactics were essentially suicide in the middle of the pitch, yet not a single adjustment was made until May after we had been spanked into submission by the large majority of the league. This obsession from people wanting to keep him of minimizing what was literally a historically bad league campaign boggles my mind. We literally have gone straight backwards as a club for 18 months, and scraping the FA cup doesn’t change that no matter how satisfying it was to beat our rivals Saturday.

He’d actually have a much better case for being retained if you swapped the two seasons around, because it would actually indicate progress instead of regression.
 
Oldyella said:
He's had two years and spent a fortune and not been able to do it. Why do people think its going to magically click in year three?
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When people say stuff like this, do they not remember it "clicking" in Year 1. We out-played Barcelona in Europe over two legs and genuinely looked like we were building positive momentum. Year 2 being a complete and utter disaster shouldn't scrub that from our memory.
 
golden_blunder said:
Here’s my point, anyone saying “keep him, there are no alternatives at the moment” are essentially saying that underneath it all they would still replace him if a candidate they thought was better came along. Its not really a proper vote of confidence
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I get your point, but you have to remember some of these guys rate Ten Hag only behind Pep and Klopp.
 
Just get rid and screw the PR nonsense. I hope these guys aren’t worried about coming across as “nice”
 
hp88 said:
Highly unlikely but ask yourself if you think we can win anything with names being linked with us, the only one which gives me a bit of hope is Tuchel but it's not going to happen overnight.

I just don't like the idea of hitting reset every two years, which is why I would prefer ETH to see out this contract, gives us a bit of time to get this backroom in order and possibly move a couple of players away, also give us a chance to see what McKenna will be like in the top division as he's a total wildcard for me at the moment.
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I just don't view it as logical to keep manager for another year with no realistic intention of keeping him beyond that, just to let us scope out the market during that time. We may as well start the rebuild now under a manager we have more faith in.

The other problem is, if we view Ten Hag as the sort of manager to "lay the foundations" for another manager in the future, what evidence do we have that he's the man for that job? He's made us worse after 2 years in this job and has us playing to the standard of a lower half team, and he's not implemented any style of play that we'd actually want to pursue further.
 
Blood Mage said:
If this is true then I am not impressed at all with the start Ineos are making. They look weaker than the Glazers.

Sacking LVG immediately after the cup win was ruthless but necessary. It was the best thing Joel, Avram and Woody did.
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Yeah reeks of the same PR dogshit that they did when trying to buy the club, announcing their bid by being “British backed with fans of the club” etc. I didn’t like it then and don’t like it now. If you’re going to portray yourself as an efficient, ruthless decision making machine then do that
 
chris123 said:
When people say stuff like this, do they not remember it "clicking" in Year 1. We out-played Barcelona in Europe over two legs and genuinely looked like we were building positive momentum. Year 2 being a complete and utter disaster shouldn't scrub that from our memory.
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We stopped City from playing on Saturday. Does it mean anything in relation to how ETH can challenge for a title in a Premier League campaign? Absolutely not, especially on the evidence that the guy can't weather a storm in terms of injury setbacks. We might as well just surrender and deem ourselves a plucky cup side.
 
IWat said:
But if we're hypothetically outside top 4 but somewhat within striking distance come December what do we do? Or does he have to be so far away to get cut lose that we have in effect wrote off the season?
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That's up to Ineos to decide. I don't think you'd get many people, including the man himself, that doesn't acknowledge he's on very thin ice. Transfers, preseason prep and the injury issues simply have to improve and most importantly the results. If they don't and reasonably quickly then it's goodbye.

Big Ben Foster said:
What are we going to learn between August and November/December that we haven't learned in the past 18 months?
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With new players and less injuries then we should expect progress, as there was the season before where he finished 3rd with 75 points. If things go wrong, more issues arise then we reassess. As I said he's on thin ice, no one is denying that.
 
Valencia Shin Crosses said:
League season absolutely, why are we all of the sudden acting like we were better because we won a cup?

Either way I don’t want Poch, just saying that acting like he can’t do better than Ten Hag when he literally WAS better this season in his first year with similar injury issues is hilarious.
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Chelsea spent more money and finished 3 points in front of us. Poch finished the season with no trophies after bottling a league cup final against Liverpool's kids, and are playing in the conference next season. Think I know which season I would rather have.
 
stevoc said:
That was in fecking August mate, the way we've played all season first appeared in Pre-Season. So July 2023 to May 2024, not a fecking chance the players were just doing whatever they wanted for 9 months. It's not even slightly believable.
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April - https://www.football365.com/news/man-utd-jason-wilcox-ten-hag-audit-ignoring-instructions

‘Wilcox will also be asked to assess whether United’s struggles this season have predominantly been down to a dreadful run of injuries and personnel factors – or whether there are deeper issues, such as players ignoring instructions and/or inflexibility and intransigence on the manager’s part.

‘If it is the latter, United would want to know whether Ten Hag was simply too inflexible or could be open to and capable of implementing and communicating any changes required to his approach.’
 
Irwin99 said:
I get the impression that some fans believe we should be challenging for titles and you know 'something something Real Madrid wouldn't accept this' when we're in absolutely no position to do that and haven't been for 11 years.
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Not true, most United fans, here and elsewhere, would have been happy with top 4/5 and the FA cup, and progression of our football.

There’s also sensible middle ground between title challenge and 8 with negative goal difference, no?
 
It’s weird, I wanted him to stay on earlier but after the cup win I find myself wanting to switch my vote and end the chapter. I guess in hindsight it was the notion of doing it before the end of the season that irked me the most.

I’m not sure what the structural plan is for next season: Bruno in a false 9 and some variant of the midfield 3 we saw yesterday or back to 2022-23 pre-league cup conservative mode with Bruno as a 10. Or back to trying this season’s structure again but with more athletic players in the middle and a higher defensive line stepping up to reduce vulnerability…what’s the plan?
 
TsuWave said:
Not true, most United fans, here and elsewhere, would have been happy with top 4/5 and the FA cup, and progression of our football.

There’s also sensible middle ground between title challenge and 8 with negative goal difference, no?
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And two trophies in successive seasons and a 3rd place finish in his first season is precisely that sensible middle ground that people seem to be ignoring.
 
Shark said:
Used to kind of tolerate him a couple years back, but yeah he's like that guy constantly in your face at a pub, who's narcissistic and won't shut the hell up. Too much.
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I've been following the US for years. It was like the parody version of SP. Their transfer predictions never really happened, he would invite the United version of a Disney villain (ex Ince) to give his views on United and pass him as if he was Sir Bobby etc. However he had his good moments as unlike SP who tried to remain on the good side to their former player mates he was unhinged. If he hated something then he'll say it.

However he changed lately at least around SEG clients. God forbid anyone says anything remotely critical towards Hojlund or ETH. Also his transfer rumors had become suddenly reliable. You wonder why
 
Valencia Shin Crosses said:
Christ, we weren’t losing football matches because players weren’t trying. We were losing because we defended the opposition at a relegation level standard. This is just romantic waffle.
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I do believe the players were trying, but they are not machines you can turn on and off; there are other things that affects your ability to perform at a 100% level than pure will. A positive experience in a group - and as a group - can do hell lot of good, just as much as a bad experience - such as losing an EL final on penalties - can do harm. You build confidence in a group by positive experiences, not by trying and trying without result. It's basic psychology, really.
 
git_united said:
It’s weird, I wanted him to stay on earlier but after the cup win I find myself wanting to switch my vote and end the chapter. I guess in hindsight it was the notion of doing it before the end of the season that irked me the most.

I’m not sure what the structural plan is for next season: Bruno in a false 9 and some variant of the midfield 3 we saw yesterday or back to 2022-23 pre-league cup conservative mode with Bruno as a 10. Or back to trying this season’s structure again but with more athletic players in the middle and a higher defensive line stepping up to reduce vulnerability…what’s the plan?
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We can make it work if we sign five world class players for him this summer. But it's not happening, the money isn't there. It's cheaper to bring in a new coach with fresh ideas who can get more out of the players we have.
 
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