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Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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It is ok for the club to talk to available managers and make a succession plan. They haven’t finalized their review yet so officially the decision is still pending. It’s what we should do; plan ahead instead of reacting.
Out of the available managers I’d pick Poch or DeZerbi. McKenna needs to season in PL and Tuchel is not the type of coach we should be looking at.
Or give Hag another year.
Out of the available managers I’d pick Poch or DeZerbi. McKenna needs to season in PL and Tuchel is not the type of coach we should be looking at.
Or give Hag another year.
it's baffling to me that some people on here are actually in favour of Tuchel. Dude got Harry Kane and led Bayern to a 3rd place finish and a cup defeat to third-tier club Saarbrücken, not to mention the dull football and the difficult character. Would be an awful, awful choice.
What's happening to him is exactly what everyone warned him would happen.
Impossible job to turn it around in two seasons and expectations don't allow for patience
People have short memories. They dont remember what disaster ETH walked into one.
We all knew it wont turn around in 2 seasons. But he went through some turbulent times and delivered 2 cups ( after 6 seasons of no trophy).
This last season we had massive injuries. If we cant excuse a manager who has got us 2 trophy in 2 year after the enormous mess that we presented him with, then we may as well change manager every season we dont win PL from now onwards
We all knew it wont turn around in 2 seasons. But he went through some turbulent times and delivered 2 cups ( after 6 seasons of no trophy).
This last season we had massive injuries. If we cant excuse a manager who has got us 2 trophy in 2 year after the enormous mess that we presented him with, then we may as well change manager every season we dont win PL from now onwards
I added no asterix. I said that Tuchel never looked convincing as a Bayern Munich manager. Your rebuttal was that he won the league. I explained how despite winning the league, he never once looked convincing as a Bayern Munich Manager.
At Ten Hag's absolute worst in his low period, he won an FA Cup. That's more than what Tuchel did with Bayern this season. Last season Ten Hag overperformed expectations with top 3, 2 finals and 1 cup. Tuchel crawled over the minimum winning his 2 horse league managing the title favourites on goal difference. That's not an asterix, by the way.
And my point is progression toward that task was never going to be a linear one.
No one can because a manager has to be able to make their own margin for error whilst adapting to the new league and squad overhauls (before we consider any structural work thats already happening).
Tuchel didn't maintain consistent football over the course of an entire season at Chelsea either, by the way. Cast your mind back. He'd start really well and then have periods where it was really shite with scraping of many games, ending respectably enough on balance. He even said in post match conferences that he was fortunate and its unsustainable with the way Chelsea played on occasion. Tuchel also wasn't showing consistency by Bayern's standards this season either. Tuchel also failed to show consistency when he was sacked by PSG half way through the season.
But I'll say it again - Tuchel is a good coach. So is Ten Hag. Managers will make their errors and they will need their own space and time to fix it.
I refuse to believe it’s impossible to beat him at his own game. That would be my ultimate dream tbh.
He walked into a team that had finished 3rd, 2nd, 6th and through his pure genius and half a billion has guided us to an extremely lucky 8th.
The 4 names seem to be Poch, Frank, McKenna and Tuchel. It's not a great list. I would 100% rather keep ETH than touch Poch or Frank. I wouldn't be devastated if we go for Tuchel, but not delighted either. As for McKenna? I think it's too early for him, personally.
"It was on goal difference".. "Only cause Dortmund didn't do their job on the final day"
You're literally just lying now. I'm very sorry about how upset you will be when Erik deservedly loses his job. Hopefully you will be happy when we start to look like a functional football team again and stop getting dominated by the likes of Bournemouth, Fulham and Palace regularly.
Table position is only half the story, bit disingenuous to pretend the squad etc. wasn't a mess when he came. we were all pulling our hair out with how shite everything was. Not that he's totally changed things for us, but that isn't the point.
We have more points this season finishing 8th with all of the setbacks than the 6th place season before he took over, for what it's worth
If you believe that then there is no point. Go with next new shinny manager and whine when he fails in 2 years time again
At dominating the ball? He is probably the best ever at it but of course tactics move forward and new coaches will have new ideas.
My guess is he won't be at City long enough to see that aspect of the game surpassed.
well the case I'd make is to stop us declining further or just not progressing under ETH, which seems kinda 50/50 to me at this stage
his tactics are a clusterfeck, and he is so rigid with them taking forever to switch things up
the case I'd make for Poch would be he has more EPL pedigree, and could very well stabilise us for a year or two before a great option becomes available. Poch is a good manager, just not a great one. We were punting on ETH being a great one, but it doesn't look to be the case.
you are right though, if you're 50/50 it makes sense to stick with what you're got for the time being
This is how I feel really. McKenna excites me, but it's too soon if we're being logical. This is why my hope was just Ten Hag showed more promise late in the season for us to stick by him and carry on. But has he really? I'm not convinced.
Remind us all what Poch or De Zerbi have achieved in the PL so far?
De Zerbi finished 6th last season, but was riding on the coat tails of Potters 9th place finish. This season just gone he finished 11th.
Poch had some very good league finishes for Spurs, but granted they had a very good team at the time, yet he still failed to even win a trophy in his 5 year tenure, not even a League Cup. That was also 6 years ago.
He just finished 6th in the league with a squad that cost over a billion quid to assemble and only finished 3 points ahead of ETH. At least ETH finished 3rd in his first season with us.
What are you on about? Go back to the debate - I said that Tuchel was never convincing as a Bayern Manager. You tried to show he was because he won a league. I explained how he still wasn't convincing. I was not adding an asterix, what on earth is wrong with you
Unsure why you're bitching about games that have already happened - I know we were crap in those games. Heck Even Ten Hag used that word to describe us. It doesn't mean that's how he wants us to be.
No point to what sticking with a manager who has been THIS poor at his job? Yeah I think that is a waste of time and will only push is further behind.
I don't want shinny, I want substance that you can see by improvement on our weekly performance on the pitch.
I very much doubt that the next manager, whoever they may be, will end up in 8th with negative goal difference over 38 league games. I don’t think people appreciate how much Ten Hag had to work against himself to get that done.
All the names in the supposed shortlist would be an upgrade for me.
All the names in the supposed shortlist would be an upgrade for me.
Are we sure of that honestly? We cannot emphasise enough how bad performances have been, to demonstrate that we're literally 15th in xPTS. It's almost impossible for us to be that bad if the players were putting full effort in. It just does not make sense for us to go from 3rd to playing like a lower half side without the players downing tools.
Obviously there's signs on the contrary where it still looks like the effort is there in certain games. But Van Gaal won the FA cup final and as soon as he was sacked the players started leaking to the media how they couldn't stand him or his methods.
Maybe it's a small percentage of players who have given up, but I'd be interested to see who everyone thinks these players are other than Rashford.
Second best team in the Bundesliga history? Yeah, if you’re 15.
To help you out in future, if you type “Managing football teams to win things” expect the reply.
I was made up yesterday watching my club winning (in style) my favourite trophy. I think it’ll feel better than the Bayern fans and their “we lost to good teams” trophy.
And thanks for bringing up the fact they lost to Real Madrid in a cup comp… I‘d say Real Madrid and City are the best two teams in the world. Our useless manager beat one of them yesterday
Ive got no idea what you’re on about with “you had to watch it” (rambling a bit). I went to about 20 games, watched every other one… we were poor for good chunks of the season, did you think I’d say we were brilliant but unlucky? I’m not the one who’s blinkered.
Again, if there was a great option out there, I’d think we should probably go for it but there isn’t. Especially not Tuchel… he’s an ok manager.
What are you on about? Go back to the debate - I said that Tuchel was never convincing as a Bayern Manager. You tried to show he was because he won a league. I explained how he still wasn't convincing. I was not adding an asterix, what on earth is wrong with you
Unsure why you're bitching about games that have already happened - I know we were crap in those games. Heck Even Ten Hag used that word to describe us. It doesn't mean that's how he wants us to be.
That is the definition of adding an asterix to an achievement.
Well it's very nice he doesn't want us to play like crap. I'd hope he did more than just not want it but I'm not in charge of other people's actions.
You're suggesting replacing him with a manager who has been just as poor with Bayern, what the feck
Taking away yesterday, the season ended with slightly less chaos ball, but nothing convinced me he should stay. I'm rather ambibivilant about it all tbh. If he stays, he stays, but I suspect he won't. The potential successors likely won't make much of a mark either.
Answer this question - has Tuchel ever looked convincing as a Bayern Munich manager. This should be an easy enough question to answer and will confirm some clear bias for me, so I know whether or not it's worth engaging further.
I’m still in the ETH out camp, but whatever is going to happen the decision needs to be made now. Sack him or give him A contract extension. We can’t have another summer of pissing about and not knowing who is going to be in charge.
To be fair, he did turn it round in 1 season. He got us 3rd and he just had to keep us there while we gradually improve.
The fact he's taken us from 3rd to playing to the standard of a lower half side isn't the sign of a great manager.
The goal has to be improve the team even if we don't win the league or champions league, not make us worse.
We'd have had a lot more faith in the manager if he had gone from 5th to 4th with better performance metrics, rather than 3rd to 8th (with 8th being very flattering).
Second best team in the Bundesliga history? Yeah, if you’re 15.
To help you out in future, if you type “Managing football teams to win things” expect the reply.
I was made up yesterday watching my club winning (in style) my favourite trophy. I think it’ll feel better than the Bayern fans and their “we lost to good teams” trophy.
And thanks for bringing up the fact they lost to Real Madrid in a cup comp… I‘d say Real Madrid and City are the best two teams in the world. Our useless manager beat one of them yesterday
Ive got no idea what you’re on about with “you had to watch it” (rambling a bit). I went to about 20 games, watched every other one… we were poor for good chunks of the season, did you think I’d say we were brilliant but unlucky? I’m not the one who’s blinkered.
Again, if there was a great option out there, I’d think we should probably go for it but there isn’t. Especially not Tuchel… he’s an ok manager.
You don't type in a particularly coherent fashion.
I'm sadly well over 15, just factually the second best considering it is the second highest points total and invincible.
You made no other points other than yes we beat City, we were good for 1 game of the season. Imagine beating both those teams you consider the hest with an unfancied team on the way to the Champions League. What a dream.
He has won 2 cups. And had to deal with massive injury issues this season. He literally walked into a team which was in chaos.
Performances have not been great, but our squad is dog shite and with injuries it was difficult for us to maintain our performance level.
Only criticism i have of him is that he should have been more pragmatic and played according to the quality of team he had. Also that we actually started poorly and when we started picking up pace, we lost key players to injury
I just don't get the dynamic of comparing Erik to other managers from the provisional standpoint of their managerial pedigree, the consensus in hiring Erik was due to his imprint with Ajax specifically (not his career) and the way they played being an assumption on what he would bring to United as a deliverable.
Two years in and the highlight is what he's won over the performance metrics which is what a team and club uses to build momentum from season to season. Mourinho is proof and a definitive example that you can win things and still not be heading in a feasible direction that the club can build from. The real question is how does the club move forward with his ideology beyond the current time stamp.
Giving him next season to 'see how things go' is not how you make an astute decision in leadership and business. It has to venture into the medium long-term and the manager himself has made hypocritical points assaying that the progress with United is a process (taking time) but in the same breath, assimilating that keeping him will win trophies which he used as a framework as being demonstrable with another team which highlights it being short-term and of immediacy. So which one is it? By his own admission a fully fit squad at best will do top four next season being a direct quote from his own foresight. The manager comes across as a jack of all trades depending on what parts you listen in isolation this season.
Two years in and the highlight is what he's won over the performance metrics which is what a team and club uses to build momentum from season to season. Mourinho is proof and a definitive example that you can win things and still not be heading in a feasible direction that the club can build from. The real question is how does the club move forward with his ideology beyond the current time stamp.
Giving him next season to 'see how things go' is not how you make an astute decision in leadership and business. It has to venture into the medium long-term and the manager himself has made hypocritical points assaying that the progress with United is a process (taking time) but in the same breath, assimilating that keeping him will win trophies which he used as a framework as being demonstrable with another team which highlights it being short-term and of immediacy. So which one is it? By his own admission a fully fit squad at best will do top four next season being a direct quote from his own foresight. The manager comes across as a jack of all trades depending on what parts you listen in isolation this season.
You're suggesting replacing him with a manager who has been just as poor with Bayern, what the feck
Just as poor? Won the league, Champions League semi finals and generally dominated most teams they played against.
Not a fair like for like comparison of course but very hard to say just as bad.
For folks who’re Ten Hag in, were you also LvG in after his FA Cup win? We finished higher in the table, also had a fair number of injuries. Surely LvG should have had a chance to further cement his philosophy and guide us to more trophies? He brought in a number of youngsters into the squad as well.
The more you think about it, that's actually reflects even worse on the job that he's done.
The fact we were in such a mess when he joined, and he's made us even worse is pretty shocking. It would have been considered borderline impossible to make us even worse than when he first joined.
This season, he bottled everything and came 3rd in a 2 horse league with Bayern fecking Munich. Dicked on by a 3rd tier German side in the German Cup, behave. Now you're actually talking nonsense.
By the way, Ten Hag's achievement of 3rd place, 2 finals and 1 cup is more impressive than Tuchel scraping a Bundasliga with Bayern Munich
I'm not even going to explain the obvious reasons why, it should be obvious enough for you.Even Niko Kovac had a higher point average during their Bayern tenure than Tuchel. How many Bayern games have you watched? They were decent during some spells, but there's a reason they decided to dump him back in February.
Forget about Leverkusen, they deserved to finish below Stuttgart too.
I am an unwavering ETH in advocate, because I like the way he handles pressure - with grace and strength. He is right - it was a mess. But his last season has shown the challenges to get to the next level, and even to compete with the Arsenals of this world. But okay. Let’s look at the options. Southgate. Ugh.
Poch. Just no.
Frank. Nein.
McKenna. Interesting, but too soon.
Tuchel. Obviously able. Best of what’s been suggested. But had iffy time last season.
Poch. Just no.
Frank. Nein.
McKenna. Interesting, but too soon.
Tuchel. Obviously able. Best of what’s been suggested. But had iffy time last season.
He won the league then lost it to the second best team in the history of the league.
Mixed bag, Leverkusen were generationally good but the standards are always high at Bayern and fairly so.
Generally looked well set up with no outright idiocy tactically when I saw them this season though.
Reason they decided to dump him then basically beg him to stay?
The argument seems to be for continuity sake and in hope rather than actually believing. One has to consider their feelings towards doing nothing, forgetting about the possible replacements too.
Compare us and Chelsea. If Chelsea fans were debating sacking Poch and appointing ETH, they'd probably say the same thing that they wouldn't touch him.
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