Cool, but won a cup. So.essentially no different to spurs Season, bar actually winning a cup - which is kind of the point of management. He has absolutely zero pedigree. He has never managed in the top flight, in Europe, a team that's expected to win things, under pressure or longer than 5 years.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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What did you think was not possible? Winning a football game as an outsider?
Our performance was far from amazing, we played many games like this, and we've had far better games against good teams before even under Ten Hag. We just didn't have defender lobbing his own goalkeeper before.
I said before that ETH should be allowed to see out his second season on the back of a good first year plus the disruptions at the club this season.
To me it's obvious that we won't win a title under ETH but that doesn't mean we should sack him right away.
There is a time to sack/part ways with a manager, now is not the time after the back of an FA Cup victory and a rocky season off the pitch. Above all else, the manager market is bleak, lots of risky choices with no one being a sure fire hit.
People may bring up LVG winning the cup and then Mourinho coming in, it's a different situation. Mourinho was at the time seen as a guarantee success (and to some extent he was). As I've already said, none of the managers we've been linked with are clear hits (even Tuchel I would say the same for).
In my opinion, it's less of a risk to let ETH see out next year then decide on his future in the summer of 2025, rather than sack him now and bring in someone new. Especially if the latter scenario means someone like McKenna comes in.
Give Ten Hag another year, let managers like McKenna have a season in the PL to see what they're made of, and then evaluate the managerial market and the 24/25 season under ETH. Make a decision then rather than now.
To me it's obvious that we won't win a title under ETH but that doesn't mean we should sack him right away.
There is a time to sack/part ways with a manager, now is not the time after the back of an FA Cup victory and a rocky season off the pitch. Above all else, the manager market is bleak, lots of risky choices with no one being a sure fire hit.
People may bring up LVG winning the cup and then Mourinho coming in, it's a different situation. Mourinho was at the time seen as a guarantee success (and to some extent he was). As I've already said, none of the managers we've been linked with are clear hits (even Tuchel I would say the same for).
In my opinion, it's less of a risk to let ETH see out next year then decide on his future in the summer of 2025, rather than sack him now and bring in someone new. Especially if the latter scenario means someone like McKenna comes in.
Give Ten Hag another year, let managers like McKenna have a season in the PL to see what they're made of, and then evaluate the managerial market and the 24/25 season under ETH. Make a decision then rather than now.
Won a trophy 2 seasons in a row. Only manager to do that post Sir Alex. 3 finals in 2 years. I’ve been calling for Ten Hag to go since before Christmas due to the league performances. Still mad he could be our most successful manager since 2013 and yet could still be sacked.
He was busy winning top flight league titles and competing in the Champions League. You can scoff at titles by saying it's the Dutch league but McKenna hasn't even sniffed a minute of top flight football in Gibraltar.
I think a lot of fans have the capability of looking at things with more nuance than they are given credit for.
He's earned a hell of a lot of good will with me. I'm delighted we won and also think he's a hard working and extremely decent man.
I also don't think he is the right man to take us forward. I think the black and white nature of online football discussion is mostly an online thing. It would be very hard to question him being sacked after this season.
Not that mad when you consider big clubs mainly aim for the league and the CL. A title challenge would be far bigger for us at this point than any domestic cup win.
I mean people love to compare ETH to Arteta. Before taking over, Arteta had no pedigree in the game over Emery.
For what it's worth, objectively I agree with you. Objectively, appointing McKenna is a huge gamble.
I agree mate. I don't think it's easy to find a top class #6, so going the double pivot route could well be beneficial for us. And having Mainoo as the controller in midfield backed up by CBs and a midfield partner who have the physical and athletic ability could well be the way forward. Like you say it would be easier to mould a youngster like Mainoo for the controlling role and surround him with more pace and power without sacrificing on technical quality.
Actually, the exact opposite. He played a ridiculously open game with players he said aren't suited to it, whilst even the fans were saying he needs to shut up shop a bit. Then when he gets his CBs back he proceeds to park the bus.
I mean, people don't change their votes directly, but it's quite obvious that people who didn't vote earlier usually come into this thread to vote for him to stay, we've had that many times this season. You can conclude it from the comments, even some people who were strong NO have changed their opinion after today's game, even if the performance was nothing to write about.
I think he will stay. The FA Cup display might have shifted the odds in his favor, not because he won, but because of how he won it.
He could have easily parked the bus and hit them on the counter, but instead he chose to approach them like he did Barca last year and it payed off.
With this I think he might have more sway when he meets the board and tell them "See, I told you it was the injuries. Once I got a fully fit XI, we can go toe to toe with City"
On the other hand I don't see our board sacking him simply because of the alternatives. Poch despite his strong finish, did what you'd expect him to do. De Zebri is just another Potter and McKenna hasn't even managed a PL game yet. Tuchel might seem like an improvement, but his CL aside, what exactly did he do that everyone expects him to be an instant upgrade on ETH? Di Matteo won it as well, and Grant came runner up to the CL and PL in the same season.
If someone like Pep or Klopp was available, I'd understand why our board would sack ETH.(kind of like Mourinho looked like a vast improvement on LVG at the time), but currently any manager is a side move at best.
Considering that he won 2 cup finals, while marginally losing another one, and having improved so many of our younger players, based on this alone I think he deserves another season. Questions do have to be asked of his tactics though. The holes in the middle and the insane injury list have to be at the top of the queue.
He could have easily parked the bus and hit them on the counter, but instead he chose to approach them like he did Barca last year and it payed off.
With this I think he might have more sway when he meets the board and tell them "See, I told you it was the injuries. Once I got a fully fit XI, we can go toe to toe with City"
On the other hand I don't see our board sacking him simply because of the alternatives. Poch despite his strong finish, did what you'd expect him to do. De Zebri is just another Potter and McKenna hasn't even managed a PL game yet. Tuchel might seem like an improvement, but his CL aside, what exactly did he do that everyone expects him to be an instant upgrade on ETH? Di Matteo won it as well, and Grant came runner up to the CL and PL in the same season.
If someone like Pep or Klopp was available, I'd understand why our board would sack ETH.(kind of like Mourinho looked like a vast improvement on LVG at the time), but currently any manager is a side move at best.
Considering that he won 2 cup finals, while marginally losing another one, and having improved so many of our younger players, based on this alone I think he deserves another season. Questions do have to be asked of his tactics though. The holes in the middle and the insane injury list have to be at the top of the queue.
Wonder what the lingering Ten Hag Shaw love in was all about at fulltime.
Opinions should not change after a one off game.
Terrible football all year and you can blame injuries but not having Varane and Martinez available is not the reason we had a wide open midfield every single week.
It took losing to CRYSTAL PALACE 4 - 0 (FOUR!) for him to finance change something and, shock, we looked better instantly.
Hate that we have to talk about it on the back of a cup win but he’s clearly not the man to take us to the top and he needs to go.
Terrible football all year and you can blame injuries but not having Varane and Martinez available is not the reason we had a wide open midfield every single week.
It took losing to CRYSTAL PALACE 4 - 0 (FOUR!) for him to finance change something and, shock, we looked better instantly.
Hate that we have to talk about it on the back of a cup win but he’s clearly not the man to take us to the top and he needs to go.
what about the guy who has two trophies in two seasons?
To me, it felt like it was what he was saying to most people. See what we can do when we're all fit and this was without you, one our most important players. Complete speculation on my part, but what I'm going to read into it.
Nobody would take domestic cups into consideration when choosing the manager. Would anybody care if Tuchel won the german cup this season for instance? It wouldn't change anyone's opinion on him.
We heavily relied on the counter today which seems the only way to beat City nowadays and we looked great, I'm happy with ETH's tactical choices today. Everything clicked.
But are we able to impose our will on the smaller clubs? The teams we should beat? This was still one of the worst seasons ever and the football was absolutely dreadful. I see the poll is changing quickly based off this one game, but I don't see a lot of progress after two years, if any. I'm far from salivating over the other managerial options, but I am not convinced ETH is our man either after this seasons display.
But are we able to impose our will on the smaller clubs? The teams we should beat? This was still one of the worst seasons ever and the football was absolutely dreadful. I see the poll is changing quickly based off this one game, but I don't see a lot of progress after two years, if any. I'm far from salivating over the other managerial options, but I am not convinced ETH is our man either after this seasons display.
Whilst guiding his team to their worst league finish in the past 30 years.
What he’s shown in the league is so much more relevant to our future as a club.
And we haven't had that in a single season in the post SAF era. It took other managers like Klopp and Arteta a few years to get a challenge in and it will probably takes us a while yet, regardless of the next manager.
Even if you have everyone fit and available in this squad there's not a manager alive that could get this squad to be a consistent title challenger, because there's so much work to do. Whether EtH is the right man for this is debatable.
Considering our squad, our opponent and the negative build-up, he pulled of about as good performance as we could hope for. So well done to him. And even if he goes, he looks like the only manager on the verge of the sack who hasn't lost the dressing room. The toxic elements looks to have been removed, apart from maybe Antony. Hard to discuss anything else for a few days after winning a trophy against the oil machine everyone expected to batter us.
Shameless stuff from the media today, atleast let him enjoy this win. In some way it makes me want to keep him for next season.
Shameless stuff from the media today, atleast let him enjoy this win. In some way it makes me want to keep him for next season.
I don't think today was parking the bus. We sat deep when City had the ball at 0-0 to close off the space for forward passes but committed numbers forward ourselves on the counter attack. I think the 0-0 at Anfield was parking the bus as there was no desire to take a risk.
My general point still is today was the rare and sadly last time we saw Varane and Martinez together and combined with last season having them in the team transmit confidence and belief. This is what I believe Ten Hag means when he laments the lack of that pairing. It is not just that they clear balls from the box, outfox strikers and rarely make mistakes, they can pass and stride forward. His open style of football was terrible in how vacant the midfield was but I feel having sturdy reliable CBs who can play football ends the headlessness that as last season showed when we kept the most clean sheets.
Yeah, well, hindsight is 20/20
Nice seeing Aguero all healthy but hated him as a player, always find a way to score against us. What a player he was in his days
The board were on the verge of sacking SAF when he won the FA cup. That changed their mind and the rest is history.
Yes, we haven't had that but that should be the goal. Cup runs and wins are nice but not an indicator of anything. We've had some decent cup results in these years. It's a bonus more than anything.
Didn't give shit about Qatar, but if INEOS sack Ten Hag after this, they are worse than Glazers. There, I said it. Not just as immoral as Glazers, but actually dumber.Ineos rats
Giving Erik one more year with better recruitement is the clear right move right now. If it doesn't work, next year he can be sacked but right now only idiots would do it
The board need to make it clear whichever way it's going and soon. Otherwise we're going to get another 15 polls on the Caf.
Would you prefer to come fourth and no trophy?
I ask because we’ve qualified for europa, essentially making Chelsea and Newcastle finishing above is pointless and won silverware.
I think the knack of winning trophies is important for a manager, there aren’t many managers capable of it available.
Winning the league with Ajax and having one good run in the CL. I am scoffing at it, the same way you are scoffing at McKenna even though many managers with no prior experience have gone on to win plenty off things. Alonso, Zidane, Pep did not have experience either, and they were great.
Cool, but still shit. The point of management is not to shit the league and end up 8th. All that pedigree and experience means feck all. It has not helped ETH in the league. Alonso, Arteta, Pep, Zidane did well with none of that. McKenna has plenty of talent, and you have no clue how he will do here. Also, he knows us better than even ETH, so I think he knows plenty about the challenge.
That story is so ridiculous to me. As if he would just sit there and risk being both sacked and lose on the Bayern job. Surely he would ask for assurances. Even your average caf member knew he was more likely than not being sacked. How could he not.
Excellent win.
But he still has to go. Nothing changes.
But he still has to go. Nothing changes.
I voted keep. There are no good managers available anyway and what's the point of starting again. See how he does next year without so many injuries.
Depends where your priorities lie as a fan.
Any team can have a good cup run with a bit of luck. By far the most important barometer of progress for me is showing you can perform week in, week out in the league. Finishing bottom of our CL group and then finishing mid table with a negative goal difference is just not good enough despite the cup win IMHO.
Yeah, it would be insane for me if any further time at all was needed on the "season review". The work should've been done already, a single game shouldn't be a big swing either way in the decision making. Fans swaying with the wind on a football forum is one thing, can't really run a club like that.
Not many teams can beat City in the cup though.
INEOS will be conducting a review of the season. They will evaluate Ten Hag in the same manner as they do the other candidates for the job.
They might have a slight bias towards Ten Hag due to financial considerations, but I don't believe that will significantly influence their decision.
They have done their due diligence by interviewing many potential managers, likely more than what has been reported in the media.
So the real questions are: What style do we want to play? Who fits that style of play the best? Is Mr X an upgrade over Ten Hag?
Among the reported names linked to us, I can't see a clear candidate who fits.
They might have a slight bias towards Ten Hag due to financial considerations, but I don't believe that will significantly influence their decision.
They have done their due diligence by interviewing many potential managers, likely more than what has been reported in the media.
So the real questions are: What style do we want to play? Who fits that style of play the best? Is Mr X an upgrade over Ten Hag?
Among the reported names linked to us, I can't see a clear candidate who fits.
Arteta : Didn’t he finish 8th?
Pep: Managed Barcelona in their pomp. And then one of the best Bayern team. Finished 4th in first season before spending feck you money. Had way better support structure.
Zidane: Had a pretty decent Real Madrid.
We are nowhere close to any of the team, so comparisons is bit pointless. League performance was bad but we dont have great squad and our first team players were injured most of the season.
Fa cup victory does paper over the cracks but one season with proper management is what ETH has deserved after pulling out this victory. Jose and LVG are pretty good manager and they struggled with our management structure.
Also none of the manager mentioned is an upgrade over ETH.
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