Oh yeah there is no doubt that squad needs to be gutted and overhauled but impossible with FFP
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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Oh yeah there is no doubt that squad needs to be gutted and overhauled but impossible with FFP
You've disproven your own point. Arnold and Murtough were the "structure" above him. Just because they didnt do a good job doesnt mean there was no structure.
Just as there's absolutely nothing to yet prove that Ashworth will do any better. He's never even been tasked with hiring a manager before. He's not been behind many signings at all in his career (and one of those was Tonali).
You cant have it both ways. Either there was a "structure" that ETH had a strong influence on (too strong) or there wasn't, in the former ETH takes some blame in the other he takes all the blame. Either way, he takes a lot of blame. It was his job to find out if there was any way De Jong would come. Not Murtough and Arnold's. They were talking to his agent, who was always positioning for more money from whoever would pay it, ETH could have picked up the phone to the actual player, what any decent manager would do with such a crucial target they already knew.
Also Mitten is the sort of basic fan who would tell you we need to build around Rashford and McTominay.
You're better off finding another TenHagEra tweet to post
Why would he take blame? We have treated him horribly, players and owners have hung him out to dry. He has been great but everyone else has been poor at their jobs.
Mitten was saying we were going to have a great season in the midst of the pre season alarm bells ringing. His opinion isn’t really valid unless he’s reporting something he’s been told. He’s the kind of United fan that will always believe the most positive outcome regardless of the evidence in front of him.
I think this is a fairer criticism and one I share. We do create some decent chances but we don't exactly bombard teams and more often than not its usually just the wingers getting it wide and then trying a shot when the pass was the better option.
In his defence, you could say the likes of Garnacho and Hojlund are very young and still learning. I can't be bothered to look at the exact stats but i can't imagine Rooney and Ronaldo were scoring much more at their ages (I bet their assists were much higher though). Also, Martial is our only back up striker and is always injured, Antony, who EtH bought, is mostly useless in front of goal, and I don't picture Amad as a player that will get 10-15 goals a season in the premier league just yet. Another obvious issue is that it doesn't help when your 30 goals a season star forward has his second abysmal goal scoring season in three years (5, 30, 8).
Despite the problems, there is some optimism for the forward line for the next manager with Garnacho and Hojlund but it's still a bit of a worry.
Must get sacked after the fa cup.
What progress? there has been absolutely none! did I miss something in the last 12 months because I cannot remember a single thing I would call progress which I could attribute to ETH
So your solution would be to risk another season under a man who has done nothing to warrant confidence this season
The comparison to Arteta is weak, this is not an repeatable experiment where you can predict future outcomes from past results, you could take 20 managers at 20 different clubs and some would improve, some would continue to fail, and you would not be able to reliably predict what the next 20 would do, it is a ridiculous assertion that you can, Arteta is not ETH and vice versa, if it was Arteta at a new club then you could make the prediction, but ETH has feck all to do with it, there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to expect that we would see any improvement under ETH even if he didn't have to deal with injuries and had a successful window, to suggest otherwise is pure speculation based on no evidence
I Agree with your sentiments really, in my view Ten Hag doesn't deserve a chance under the new management, but I won't be surprised if SJR and the new management decide to keep him for next season.
Always amusing when Ten Hag inners insist on using Arteta as comparison instead of Emery, who is much closer in terms of age and experience.
The number of goals scored hit a new record in the league this season and outside of Haaland, there’s no single outstanding goalscorer with the next highest being Palmer at 22 which includes penalties. Instead, the goals are being spread across the team with midfielders pitching in with more. Our lack of attacking competence is hard to hide with or without striker depth.
Yeah it won't be easy but it has to happen one way or another, EtH didn't help himself with his shit signings like Antony or signing short term options like Cas and Eriksen, and I am in the EtH out camp but one thing that kind of hampered him was not being able to get rid of players he didn't want like Maguire or McTominay, it meant when key players like Shaw and Martinez or even Casemiro are injured their replacement were not good enough, and the impact of that significant, all I am saying is the squad overhaul is kinda necessary for progressing the team,of course if it doesn't happen it does not mean the incoming manager gets a pass if he can't achieve anything, the current squad can't compete for titles that's for sure but they can get at the very least top 4 and a deep cup run.
I've never heard him say a thing that is even slightly critical or reflective of anything he has done. This is part of what makes him so unlikeable for me.
It's the nature of the beast for somebody like him, he simply won't bite the hand that feeds him. At one stage of the season he seemed to be swaying slightly and more open to criticism of the manager, but then he had some sort of interview with him and suddenly it was all great again. You just need to take it for what it is. I value his opinion on certain things that are happening behind the scenes, the youth etc. Things that the club have clearly told him about as it is a positive bit of news. There's no way anybody is talking to him about the managers position apart from maybe their own opinions. The most telling thing is Simon Mulloch, who seems to be a bit of a mouthpiece for his agent, putting out stories of lack of backing from above and how clubs are queuing up to hire him.
I'm not sure what's amusing about not using a terrible comparison, why would anyone use Emery to back up an argument about keeping a manager when he was sacked pretty quickly?
Fair point. Not once have we seen him accept any responsibility for anything that has happened on the pitch. A bit of humility would go a long way.
It's why I don't understand the opinion that Ten Hag is likeable. He's as full of himself as Mourinho and would rather blame everyone and everything else
Because they are closer in reality. We should be looking to replace ETH with an Arteta, instead of praying that he miraculously becomes one. Arteta is young and was learning on the job, Ten Hag didn't learn or change a thing.
Calling Mitten a “basic fan” is ironically a very basic point of view and incredibly ill-informed.
Mitten is a top red. I think that was the point.
No he isn’t.
This is something that isn't discussed much but should be. It must've come up in talks before he signed and it's definitely what got him noticed so why wasn't it a major talking point?
Wonder if Ferdinand as inside info. He’s adamant that ETH is getting sacked even if he wins the FA.
Ferdinand is an idiot. He was telling us that Qatar were taking over United.
In his latest interview with Gary Neville though he did mention FDJ. Apparently you need a De Jong type player to play that way. Don’t get how 1 player can influence the way the whole team plays though. Also surely when getting hired one of the main talking points would be style of play and what will you be bringing but obviously the people that hired him wasn’t as much bothered about that and they aren’t here anymore… the new structure and new board people will have the style of play as a major talking point when interviewing new managers. They want to create our style and stick to it.
That’s true… maybe he’s one of the ones wanting him to be sacked so he’s trying to ramp it up a little.
I remember seeing a lot more sack rumours when the likes of Jose, Van Gaal and Ole were all getting the sack.
No, he clearly said that's his opinion only on what will happen.
Yes, looks likely, if they have someone already lined up for the Head Coach role then I agree that ETH is in for a early bath.
However, I still think its too soon for that and there's lots of other issues to be decided, to make sure it all lines up. If Sir Jim and his mates are proved to have moved too early, then the confidence (in they know what they doing) will ebb away quickly and further wandering in the football wilderness will be on the cards.
Agree again, but not so sure about the play style being decided by committee (hierarchical or otherwise) .... "a horse designed by a committee is a camel" comes to mind!
Because Woodward had journalists on speed dial. Ratcliffe seems to want to keep information more in house.
Some posters enjoy playing a role, don't take it away from them.Are we still using these childish labels?
The other side of that coin is if they leave him in position but end up having to pull the trigger on him mid season next year. We've just had our worst ever Premier League and Champions League campaigns in a single season. Sacking Ten Hag is a tap in for them, they didn't even hire him. But they'll look as incompetent and dithering as the Glazers/Woodward regime if they leave another failing manager in the job too long then find themselves scrambling around for a replacement mid-season.
Agree again, but not so sure about the play style being decided by committee (hierarchical or otherwise) .... "a horse designed by a committee is a camel" comes to mind!
Ratcliffe has said as much. He says they'll decide the playstyle and the coach will have to play that way. Makes sense for continuity between managers. No more switching between Moyes Ball, Possession, Jose pragmatic etc.
https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...ir-jim-ratcliffe-outlines-manchester-28678943
That's because it's not the case. The way FDJ is talked about in relation to ETH you could be mistaken and believe that they worked together for more than 18 months.
Littler is ten Hag in
I wonder if FDJ ever gets a bit creeped out by the obsession his former coach seems to have with him
He loves those two, probably his two favourite United players. And he hates sacking managers.
Ergo, basic.
That's the whole point, its got to be one or the other.
ETH has one year left on his contract, if they decide to pull the plug this year, the cost moves forward and FFP comes into the reckoning. If things get difficult next season and they get to a point where they need to put ETH on 'garden leave', then I suspect Steve Maclaren would be asked to see out the season.
Either way there is nothing to stop Sir Jim etc. going on the lookout for the head coach figure they want, during the season.
Yes, I have heard of such comments, cannot say I am too happy with that, we will have gone from the Senior management having no idea about football and leaving everything to the manager, to the senior management deciding what playing style is (presume one style fits all) and the head coach... well suppose he will have charge of instructing the players that they change ends at half time and to remember they a kicking the other way second half!!
Sorry, I do understand what you are saying, but for me football is never that rigid... even Pep changes his style and reverts to the long ball, when the opportunity arises or the situation changes.
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Going into the season with a system that didn't work with the players he had is ultimately indefensible. Yes injuries, but even with everyone fit, who was going to cover that vast space in midfield? Mount?
I would like to see ETH stay to fix all this but realistically he's played a weak hand badly and he's gonna get the boot.
I would like to see ETH stay to fix all this but realistically he's played a weak hand badly and he's gonna get the boot.
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