Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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Very few noises suggesting he’s on his way out which aligns with my expectations of him either getting another year or already a new contract.

I think INEOS will have been impressed with us winning our final two games and putting a decent performance and getting a respectable result against Arsenal, and behind the scenes there will have been conversations where he will have explained how our lack of quality and injuries prevented him form delivering better results.

They will give him a realistic goal for next year (top 6) and will be patiently waiting for him to turn out good.
 
glazed said:
Going into the season with a system that didn't work with the players he had is ultimately indefensible. Yes injuries, but even with everyone fit, who was going to cover that vast space in midfield? Mount?

I would like to see ETH stay to fix all this but realistically he's played a weak hand badly and he's gonna get the boot.
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fix what? This is his system. Regardless of who has been fit for pretty much all of this season he has put in his midfield system. He just isnt cut out for this league, nothing wrong with that. Not every manager is going to be. Club needs to be smart and move on from him. We have looked like absolute dog shit from pretty much the cup final last season to now.
 
Sarni said:
Very few noises suggesting he’s on his way out which aligns with my expectations of him either getting another year or already a new contract.

I think INEOS will have been impressed with us winning our final two games and putting a decent performance and getting a respectable result against Arsenal, and behind the scenes there will have been conversations where he will have explained how our lack of quality and injuries prevented him form delivering better results.

They will give him a realistic goal for next year (top 6) and will be patiently waiting for him to turn out good.
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Top 6 is not good enough and I’d be surprised if INEOS would target that.
 
stevoc said:
But they'll look as incompetent and dithering as the Glazers/Woodward regime if they leave another failing manager in the job too long then find themselves scrambling around for a replacement mid-season.
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Yes, good point.

And one I would think they've considered.

Keeping him is a huge gamble for them.

If they're forced to sack him after a few months (because - well - the blatantly subpar performances and results just keep coming), they will look like absolute morons for not just sacking him straight away (which is what most fans - and most journos/pundits too - lean towards here and now).
 
Sarni said:
Very few noises suggesting he’s on his way out which aligns with my expectations of him either getting another year or already a new contract.

I think INEOS will have been impressed with us winning our final two games and putting a decent performance and getting a respectable result against Arsenal, and behind the scenes there will have been conversations where he will have explained how our lack of quality and injuries prevented him form delivering better results.

They will give him a realistic goal for next year (top 6) and will be patiently waiting for him to turn out good.
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It sounds plausible enough but then you have to remember this approach would mean they are incompetent owners with zero ambition, and we're doomed.

I genuinely dont think they've decided yet. Or they've decided to ditch him and are keeping that decision within 2-3 people.

If they decided to keep him before the end of the season it makes no sense to keep that secret. None.
 
hobbers said:
It sounds plausible enough but then you have to remember this approach would mean they are incompetent owners with zero ambition, and we're doomed.

I genuinely dont think they've decided yet. Or they've decided to ditch him and are keeping that decision within 2-3 people.

If they decided to keep him before the end of the season it makes no sense to keep that secret. None.
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No chance they haven't decided yet, or are letting the cup final decide it. That would make them worse than Ed and the Glazers.
 
mu4c_20le said:
No chance they haven't decided yet, or are letting the cup final decide it. That would make them worse than Ed and the Glazers.
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If they havent decided yet it'd be more to do with Brailsford and co being weasels and not wanting to make any definitive decision without having Ashworth and Berrada there to bear the fallout of any consequences.
 
glazed said:
Yeah and it might be a great system if he has the right players. But he doesn't so it was dumb to persist with it.
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i fail to see any way in which his system would be great. You cant have 1 player in midfield and expect to be successful. We have consistently gotten worse under him, which is exactly the opposite of what should be happening.
 
It makes sense to keep him. For now.

This isn’t a free pass, this isn’t lowering standards, it’s a renaissance for the club and Ten Hag has the chance to be our Rembrandt if he’s successful. Otherwise he’ll be remembered for his brand of transition football failing.
 
BenitoSTARR said:
It makes sense to keep him. For now.

This isn’t a free pass, this isn’t lowering standards, it’s a renaissance for the club and Ten Hag has the chance to be our Rembrandt if he’s successful. Otherwise he’ll be remembered for his brand of transition football failing.
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ive yet to hear an actual reason to keep him. The only thing people can bring is the excuse of 'injuries". Which completely ignores the fact that we have looked like shit for the entire year. Literally the entire year. Hell you can go back to last season and say we have pretty much been shit since the cup final win. To say that it makes sense to keep him is just completely asinine. This is the top level of football in the world, a top level coach should be able to at least make their team look competent out there, regardless of who is injured or not.
 
FerociousCorgis said:
i fail to see any way in which his system would be great. You cant have 1 player in midfield and expect to be successful. We have consistently gotten worse under him, which is exactly the opposite of what should be happening.
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I mean if you had peak Kante or Declan Rice and a defence that pushed up behind it could work really well. Instead we have Casemiro, Maguire, Evans. Three less suited players you would struggle to find.
 
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glazed said:
I mean if you had peak Kante or Deklan Rice and a defence that pushed up behind it could work really well. Instead we have Casemiro, Maguire, Evans.
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so we keep a trash manager because we dont have peak world class players to overcome his deficiencies? Makes sense/
 
The only reasons to keep him are:
- player replacement is higher on the agenda (like it should be). Especially the players that might bring their 'A' game for a new coach being the sort of players that we need to stop indulging.
- there's no inspiring candidates out there.
 
INEOS have high standards and will want their own staff.

I think they've already decided ETH is gone (at the very top level) but obviously won't say anything with a cup final on the horizon, the club isn't exactly leak proof.

ETH has been a dismal failure this season by every possible measure, there's no discussion to be had.
 
UnsungHero said:
INEOS have high standards and will want their own staff.

I think they've already decided ETH is gone (at the very top level) but obviously won't say anything with a cup final on the horizon, the club isn't exactly leak proof.

ETH has been a dismal failure this season by every possible measure, there's no discussion to be had.
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is my hope as well. Feel like nothing to be gained by them trashing him before the FA cup final. If they wanted to save this season they couldve moved on from him earlier. They essentially wrote this season off while they got the other pieces in place. At what point was there ever anything to hang their hat on for keeping EtH moving forward? What a 2 game win where we lucked out that brighton couldnt score worth shit in the first half and a semi decent win over newcastle? If that is enough to justify EtH we have officially become a mid table team.
 
Zoo said:
Andy Mitten thinks Ten Hag is staying.
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If he stays he'll get a new contract surely. He can't be starting next season auditioning for his job. I'm not saying he should stay, however I think if we're out of Europe and have all that extra time to train and work on the patterns of play, we cannot allow a situation where we change managers a few months into the season. It will be an invaluable time on the training pitch, when other clubs will have players exhausted from the Euros and Copa America, with no rest and midweek matches in Europe.
 
Bastian said:
If he stays he'll get a new contract surely. He can't be starting next season auditioning for his job. I'm not saying he should stay, however I think if we're out of Europe and have all that extra time to train and work on the patterns of play, we cannot allow a situation where we change managers a few months into the season. It will be an invaluable time on the training pitch, when other clubs will have players exhausted from the Euros and Copa America, with no rest and midweek matches in Europe.
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clearly that extra time to train was invaluable towards the 2nd of this season as we crashed out of europe completely. If they keep EtH for next season assuming that magically patterns of play will come, would be completely crazy to me. Hasnt shown anything yet of that nature. We get outplayed damn near every week by other teams who actually show a style of play
 
FerociousCorgis said:
so we keep a trash manager because we dont have peak world class players to overcome his deficiencies? Makes sense/
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It sort of could if you think it's the right system. You write off the season to see who has what it takes and who does not. But ETH took stubbornness too far and now he will get the boot. I can't say he doesn't deserve it but I still think it's the right system and he's probably the best available person to bring it in. Clearly he's made a mess of things though and that's all we see on the pitch.
 
FerociousCorgis said:
ive yet to hear an actual reason to keep him. The only thing people can bring is the excuse of 'injuries". Which completely ignores the fact that we have looked like shit for the entire year. Literally the entire year. Hell you can go back to last season and say we have pretty much been shit since the cup final win. To say that it makes sense to keep him is just completely asinine. This is the top level of football in the world, a top level coach should be able to at least make their team look competent out there, regardless of who is injured or not.
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There have been several posted in this thread.

I suspect if you consider injuries an excuse not an explanation, despite seeing other clubs struggle during their periods of more intense concentrated injury, that no matter what others say and explain your view is pretty firm.

And that’s fine.

There is nothing I or anyone else can say to soften this, Ten Hag, INEOS and the players need to perform next season to win anyone over. It’s futile trying to convince anyone otherwise.
 
Maticmaker said:
That's the whole point, its got to be one or the other.
ETH has one year left on his contract, if they decide to pull the plug this year, the cost moves forward and FFP comes into the reckoning. If things get difficult next season and they get to a point where they need to put ETH on 'garden leave', then I suspect Steve Maclaren would be asked to see out the season.

Either way there is nothing to stop Sir Jim etc. going on the lookout for the head coach figure they want, during the season.
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True but they could look incompetent in 6 months if they have to sack him mid-season or they could possibly look incompetent a few years down the line if Ten Hag goes onto have success somewhere else.

The latter is a tap in for them as 1 it may never happen and 2 they'll hope United have got back on track by then and fans will be more forgiving.

Maticmaker said:
Yes, I have heard of such comments, cannot say I am too happy with that, we will have gone from the Senior management having no idea about football and leaving everything to the manager, to the senior management deciding what playing style is (presume one style fits all) and the head coach... well suppose he will have charge of instructing the players that they change ends at half time and to remember they a kicking the other way second half!!

Sorry, I do understand what you are saying, but for me football is never that rigid... even Pep changes his style and reverts to the long ball, when the opportunity arises or the situation changes.
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And I'm sure the coach will have that leeway, I doubt it will be that rigid. But the club decide the overall play style and look for managers and players with the profile to fit that style. Im sure the coaches, as any sensible coach would will be allowed to change tactics to suit certain games, periods of games or if certain players are injured.
 
Sarni said:
Very few noises suggesting he’s on his way out which aligns with my expectations of him either getting another year or already a new contract.

I think INEOS will have been impressed with us winning our final two games and putting a decent performance and getting a respectable result against Arsenal, and behind the scenes there will have been conversations where he will have explained how our lack of quality and injuries prevented him form delivering better results.

They will give him a realistic goal for next year (top 6) and will be patiently waiting for him to turn out good.
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what a depressing post. just kept getting worse with each sentence
 
BenitoSTARR said:
It makes sense to keep him. For now.

This isn’t a free pass, this isn’t lowering standards, it’s a renaissance for the club and Ten Hag has the chance to be our Rembrandt if he’s successful. Otherwise he’ll be remembered for his brand of transition football failing.
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Higher chance of him being our Robert Nava than our Rembrandt
 
Sarni said:
Very few noises suggesting he’s on his way out which aligns with my expectations of him either getting another year or already a new contract.

I think INEOS will have been impressed with us winning our final two games and putting a decent performance and getting a respectable result against Arsenal, and behind the scenes there will have been conversations where he will have explained how our lack of quality and injuries prevented him form delivering better results.

They will give him a realistic goal for next year (top 6) and will be patiently waiting for him to turn out good.
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Almost agree. But top 6 is very unrealistic if Luke Shaw gets injured again. In that case, keeping United in the top half will do

(In seriousness though - if Erik does stay then I’d like the club to justify, even if just through tipping off journos, why they have kept him despite finishing with no European football. For example, that they believe there were other problems which won’t be an issue next season)
 
FerociousCorgis said:
i fail to see any way in which his system would be great. You cant have 1 player in midfield and expect to be successful. We have consistently gotten worse under him, which is exactly the opposite of what should be happening.
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The key to me is that we got worse in the second half of the season once we were down to one game a week and had more time on the training ground.

In January I wasn't fully ETH-out yet, as up until that time there were some exonerating circumstances. I certainly wasn't happy, but the fact we did have so many games over his first 18 months and we then had so many injuries in the first half of this season meant I still thought he could perhaps turn it around. I remember making a post on here around that time saying that we'd see the truth of the matter, one way or the other, over the second half of the season as we were getting some of our injured players back and we'd have more time on the training ground for ETH to really implement what he wanted. I was hoping that he could tweak something to make that chaotic midfield tactic work somehow.

At that point we had a short uptick in results (although our actual performances weren't that much better) for a couple of weeks, before actually getting worse than we were in the first half of the season. And in quite a lot of those matches we had at least 8 or 9 of our strongest 11 on the field, so injuries were no excuse for just how bad we were.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
Yes, good point.

And one I would think they've considered.

Keeping him is a huge gamble for them.

If they're forced to sack him after a few months (because - well - the blatantly subpar performances and results just keep coming), they will look like absolute morons for not just sacking him straight away (which is what most fans - and most journos/pundits too - lean towards here and now).
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Most of the time new owners want their own man in the hot seat. If Ineos had came in but Ten Hag was doing great this year, good CL run, flying high in the league and playing entertaining football then it would be very bad optics for them to sack him. But none of that is happening, the exact opposite in fact. So I don't see from their point of view what would keep him in the job. He's not their hire, he's failing by just about every metric.

Personally I think they've way more to lose by keeping him on than they do just drawing a line under the Woodward/Arnold/Murtagh and Ten Hag era by getting rid of the last man standing and starting with a clean slate.
 
pocco said:
How many times have we finished top 4 in the last 5 or 6 years? With worse squads, too. The squad ETH has spent £400m improving on. Were you of the opinion that Villa would finish top 4 and ahead of us before the season started?
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It wasn't the top four bit I took issue with.
 
So let's look at this rationally:

Reasons to let him go =
setting new unwanted records regularly.
Looking tactically inept in most matches.
No clear style of play.
Plays Rashford 90% of the season even though he looks awful.
Plays Amad 0.5% of the season even though Antony looks awful.
Antony.
Often gets embarrassed by other PL sides, including ones that we should be breezing past.
Seems to think he's doing great.
Constant excuses.

Reasons to keep him:
We've had a lot of injuries.
Saves money.
Matches Liverpool and City's managers in hairstyle.
 
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